EPTCall to Action: May 2 Balance Testing - Page 12
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
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Dav1oN
Ukraine3164 Posts
Also I suppose they gonna add Reaver and Scout to Protoss, Vessel and Aspid to Terran and something + Scourage to Zerg, so we will have our StarCraft 2 BroodWar: The Legacy of Void with a new engine inside :/ Well, maybe it would be entertaining and interesting to watch due to a big variaty of strats and difference between playstyles... P.S Spore buff will affect only early phases of ZvZ mutaplay, in addition they had to provide some splash damage against only BIO units, kinda 15+ 30+ splash vs. Bilogical Also would be interesting to decrease the cost of Oracle, it is still too expensive, and probably nerf active ability damage. No ideas about burrow, not sure that the most of zergs will realise the possible usage of burrow :D | ||
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Targe
United Kingdom14103 Posts
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kubiks
France1328 Posts
On May 03 2013 15:50 Rabiator wrote: People should USE burrow and then they "deserve" a cost reduction maybe, but not like this. SC2 is far too fast to use burrow for micro and if people cant be bothered to spend 100/100 on one research then they dont deserve to get a discount. I'm not sure to understand your logic. So for you, if something is hard to use and not used enough you shouldn't buff it ? O_o I propose we buff mutas, medivacs and collosus, because people use them, hence deserve to get them buffed. | ||
Ragnarork
France9034 Posts
The burrow upgrade is scary... Having 7 roaches that knock at your door with burrow won't be something pleasant... 1 - Bust, 2 - Regen, 3 - Finish ^_^ Better scout that early ! But I like it, as long as it doesn't become too powerful. Making new strategies viable is good. Then, the Oracle buff is kind of meh... I don't understand. They're already fast as hell... TvP will become a nightmare... | ||
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Thrillz
4313 Posts
On May 03 2013 15:10 OGxZyL wrote: To all those who oppose the speed for oracles, please think about how easy they can be thwarted. Just like Mutas in tvp, a lot of damaged can be dealt if they are not scouted. There is nothing different about oracles. Throw down a scan and scout it. As a zerg player, throwing down static defense is a must to counter all kinds of drops and oracles. What about that craziness? Oh yea, I just scout. Those are completely different. Mutas come way later in the game while Oracles don't. Since Oracles are early game units, Protoss or Terran would have to invest in early ebay/forge and build time before they can get static defense. Zergs get spores automatically. | ||
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E.L.V.I.S
Belgium458 Posts
On May 03 2013 08:15 blade55555 wrote: To be honest 99% of the time they do these beta test changes they go through  I'd even say 99.9% =) | ||
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convention
United States622 Posts
On May 03 2013 16:27 Thrillz wrote: Those are completely different. Mutas come way later in the game while Oracles don't. Since Oracles are early game units, Protoss or Terran would have to invest in early ebay/forge and build time before they can get static defense. Zergs get spores automatically. It's not like the oracles got a build time buff, or a cost reduction, or a damage increase. They got a small speed buff. It hardly even changes the matchup except pros might be 10-15% more likely to grab a few oracles in the midgame/lategame because they will be slightly easier to keep alive. | ||
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Holo82
Austria107 Posts
If i rely on a tower in the middle of the mineral line, and an oracle comes in, and it is put on hold position right outside of the turret´s range, it kills 8 workers in 3 seconds, gets away and repeats as soon as it has energy. I think, loosing 8 workers in 3 seconds with an existing static defense (4 minute ebay yeah!) at the 5:30 minute mark is Game deciding. There is exactly no micro involved from the scv frying oracle, so a speed or acceleration buff will only result into 3 minute 30 ebay, but still useless. If anything, oracle should be nerfed severely, by removing the detection ability. The fact that toss can get detection on 3 different independent tech trees is really strong in early game, as they are immune against any stealth unit play no matter what techtree they choose. the next thing that should be adressed by david kim is the blink-allin from 3 gates with msc vision. I see it work, even if scouted, at highest lvls of play (gstl, gsl korea, gsl eu). Blink research is way to early available, even if scoutet and ideally prepared (highground bunkers, siegetank production), terrans cannot hold against in most cases, and if they dont die to it instantly, the protoss can contain long enough to go macro mode. Twighlight council should be somehow delayed (buidlingtime) or blink research time should be longer than it is. Whenever i see the map Akilon waste, and a high lvl pvt, standing 1-1 in maps, the toss will blinkstalker himself to victory. It really hurts to see this everytime. | ||
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Thrillz
4313 Posts
On May 03 2013 16:32 convention wrote: It's not like the oracles got a build time buff, or a cost reduction, or a damage increase. They got a small speed buff. It hardly even changes the matchup except pros might be 10-15% more likely to grab a few oracles in the midgame/lategame because they will be slightly easier to keep alive. The speed buff isn't particular scary. The speed buff combined with the +1 acceleration buff at the same time is something I'd be very cautious to implement. Also I hope to god they don't do anything until this GSL is over, because that would be just annoying and terrible. | ||
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SolidMoose
United States1240 Posts
Then the 0.1% is the raven speed because Mvp won a tournament. | ||
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VArsovskiSC
Macedonia563 Posts
Why buff the Spore when if you buff Queen's AA spines vs Bio it would've been much better choice.. Mutas are still waay faster than Queens, but they'll certainly guard bases/other ground armies better vs Mutas than Spores do.. Also - there are quite a bit more of changes/concerns required rather than giving random buffs to units to plainfully "see how it goes" IMO | ||
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Seiniyta
Belgium1815 Posts
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Big-t
Austria1350 Posts
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woopr
United States112 Posts
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Topdoller
United Kingdom3860 Posts
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convention
United States622 Posts
On May 03 2013 16:35 Holo82 wrote: What i really find interesting is that david kim says static defense helps against oracles. If i rely on a tower in the middle of the mineral line, and an oracle comes in, and it is put on hold position right outside of the turret´s range, it kills 8 workers in 3 seconds, gets away and repeats as soon as it has energy. I think, loosing 8 workers in 3 seconds with an existing static defense (4 minute ebay yeah!) at the 5:30 minute mark is Game deciding. There is exactly no micro involved from the scv frying oracle, so a speed or acceleration buff will only result into 3 minute 30 ebay, but still useless. If anything, oracle should be nerfed severely, by removing the detection ability. The fact that toss can get detection on 3 different independent tech trees is really strong in early game, as they are immune against any stealth unit play no matter what techtree they choose. the next thing that should be adressed by david kim is the blink-allin from 3 gates with msc vision. I see it work, even if scouted, at highest lvls of play (gstl, gsl korea, gsl eu). Blink research is way to early available, even if scoutet and ideally prepared (highground bunkers, siegetank production), terrans cannot hold against in most cases, and if they dont die to it instantly, the protoss can contain long enough to go macro mode. Twighlight council should be somehow delayed (buidlingtime) or blink research time should be longer than it is. Whenever i see the map Akilon waste, and a high lvl pvt, standing 1vs1, the toss will blinkstalker himself to victory. It really hurts to see this everytime. If you had to get your 4 minute ebay, the protoss invested so much into those oracles. You should just go kill him if he can only pick off 8 workers and lost all of his energy. Oh, and the oracle range is smaller than a banshee range (and banshees have better dps per cost!). If you can handle banshees in TvT, oracles shouldn't be an issue. Somehow the speed increase makes the proxy (hence the 4 minute ebay) starport get the oracle to your base in 30 less seconds? I don't know, something sounds off there. I'm struggling to figure out what the third tech tree for detection is with protoss. There is now the oracle, and there is the observer. What is the third (I hope you aren't counted photon cannon)? If you remove revelation, than protoss have to go robo every single game again. I've also seen two racks reaper work in the GSL, guess we should remove that too. Protoss shouldn't have at least one viable early game all-in to punish greedy terrans that didn't scout (hint: every time that build is scouted in time in the GSL, it's been stopped). | ||
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Psychobabas
2531 Posts
I really hope they dont fuck up this game again. | ||
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Sabu113
United States11060 Posts
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convention
United States622 Posts
On May 03 2013 16:37 Thrillz wrote: The speed buff isn't particular scary. The speed buff combined with the +1 acceleration buff at the same time is something I'd be very cautious to implement. Also I hope to god they don't do anything until this GSL is over, because that would be just annoying and terrible. The +1 acceleration buff means that they will stop at the same place they would have previously, afterall the oracle is going faster. If you don't buff the acceleration with the speed, you will see a turret and not be able to stop in time. The unit would feel clunky, it would be as if playing with lag. | ||
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