|
Its happens that i work at the emergency room of my city hospital... If i fuck up things... We all move on  no big deal ( just sarcasm... I'm quoting a user who works on a lawfirm a coulle of post ago)... Sometimes it cost peoples money... Sometimes not... Mlg screwed big time here... Though they havent killed anyone yet i guess the next thing is waiting for a declaration/announcement/shenanigans/whatever to see what is their view of what went wrong... And what went disastrous... And then of course more shitstorm from us (sorry but in my language there's no apropiate word for shitstorm so i find it quite awesome and original)
|
I'm also disappointed that MLG hasn't made a statement on this. They've usually been good about admitting when they've screwed up and making the right moves to address these issues.
|
On April 22 2013 12:42 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2013 12:40 Dodgin wrote:On April 22 2013 12:38 Plansix wrote:On April 22 2013 12:33 Dodgin wrote:On April 22 2013 12:30 Plansix wrote:On April 22 2013 12:28 Dodgin wrote:On April 22 2013 12:25 Plansix wrote:On April 22 2013 12:21 govie wrote:On April 22 2013 12:18 Plansix wrote:On April 22 2013 12:12 govie wrote:
[quote]
When a caraccident happens and its your fault. The guy gets his legs torn off and is an invalide. He cant work because of ur fault. Ill bet there are laywers enough out there that will get him payed his damages and future damages.
I don't know what argument you are trying to make, but you are making it really poorly. Nothing that happened to day resembled someone losing a limb. Ohh please... MLG fucked up in a way that progamers cant do there job right (exactly the same thing as with the caraccident). And u just wave it away, its not that simple. Go ask your laywerfriends. No its not. I know how liability works and none of this counts. I mean, we could make come creative arguments about harm based on MLGs actions. But the phrase "creative arguments" in the office is normally applied to terrible arguments. You realize no one is looking to sue MLG for liability right? I don't even understand what kind of argument you're trying to make anymore. I don't like to quote myself because it makes me look like TDL but seriously, do people not understand how completely fucking screwed you are if you don't qualify for season 1 of WCS? On April 22 2013 11:55 Dodgin wrote:On April 22 2013 11:48 Plansix wrote:On April 22 2013 11:41 m4inbrain wrote:But that still doesn't make any of what caused these problems their fault. And so it starts again. F'ing up brackets and letting Hyun compete was of course not their fault. It was mine. I apologize. [quote]
No need to apologize, you're right to be angry. Especially because you prepared for something, which was rendered useless by MLGs mistake. You know I work in law and we submit things to the court all the time. Two weeks ago I submitted something with the wrong caption(header to a court document) and my attorney got called on it in open court. You know what he said: "My paralegal must have made a mistake, but the facts of the motion are 100% correct" And the Judge responded that it happens to everyone if they do this long enough. If it is good enough for Court, it is good enough for MLG. People make mistakes, in both law and SC2 events. Get over it. I don't think saying " they screwed up, get over it. " is acceptable when you consider what is on the line here. In case you don't understand the WCS system for 2013 I'll explain it to you. There are three seasons, with a season finals for each season. You get points for your placement in each season and season finals, plus some for non-wcs tournaments. If you are not able to get into the WCS qualifier for season 1, you not only miss out on being in the tournament itself but you are not able to be in Premier league until season 3 of this year because the way the qualifiers are done will be changed for season 2. In season 2 there will be no direct premier league qualifiers so you will have to qualify for challenger and then make your way to premier for season 3. Because of this mistake a player with the potential to compete in all 3 of the season finals this year now has no possibility to make it to premier league or the season finals for the first two seasons, and because of that they also have 0 chance to make it to Blizzcon where the most money will be given out. If I was a pro gamer and this happened to me I would consider retiring. Yeah, I just ignored your post because you tried to explain to me how WSC worked. And the players who didn't make it can still try out for Code A in NA. I know that is the end of the world and they will never catch up, but don't tell that to anyone in code A in Korea right now. Or Demuslim(I bet he is going to be fine and not retire) They can only try out for Code A in NA if they were top 40 in the qualifier, the Chinese players who didn't get in cannot play in the challenger league qualifiers. Being Code A in Korea is different because you have the possibility of being in Code S for season 2 which in that case you might be able to get enough points to go to blizzcon. That is rough and they should work with MLG to try to see if an exception can be made for Comm and the other players, since they clearly just misunderstood the rule about how the qualifier worked. However, trying to slid Comm in under the radar was not the way to do it. Exceptions can be made for great players and its clear China has a few. But this is not the way to get that accomplished and breaking the rules isn't either. For WCS EU the Challenger League qualifier is going to be completely separate from the premier qualifiers as well, so I see no reason why MLG cannot run another qualifier for that. You would think WCS would have a universal way of doing things instead of each region having different rules, ways to qualify, and map pools. I am not going to disagree with you there, but throwing a hissy fit on reddit and TL is not going to fix the issue. If anything, I just hurts everyone involved. The Chinese players need to reach out to MLG professionally and try to get this fixed so their players can play or try out for Code A. And they should reach out to Blizzard to.
On several occasions it's been the postings on Reddit / TL that actually helped in getting something done for some players because nothing could be done when they tried to discuss it with the official channels.
Blizzard for example responded quickly to a huge Reddit post while they were ignoring the posts by progamers on their very own forums regarding the infestor and such.
|
On April 22 2013 12:42 govie wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2013 12:38 Plansix wrote:On April 22 2013 12:33 Dodgin wrote:On April 22 2013 12:30 Plansix wrote:On April 22 2013 12:28 Dodgin wrote:On April 22 2013 12:25 Plansix wrote:On April 22 2013 12:21 govie wrote:On April 22 2013 12:18 Plansix wrote:On April 22 2013 12:12 govie wrote:On April 22 2013 12:09 Plansix wrote:
[quote]
I have both. As previously stated I work at a law firm. And sometimes I make mistakes at both and people get over it. Sometimes it even costs people money. It happens and we all move on, understanding that no one meant for the mistake to happen. When a caraccident happens and its your fault. The guy gets his legs torn off and is an invalide. He cant work because of ur fault. Ill bet there are laywers enough out there that will get him payed his damages and future damages. I don't know what argument you are trying to make, but you are making it really poorly. Nothing that happened to day resembled someone losing a limb. Ohh please... MLG fucked up in a way that progamers cant do there job right (exactly the same thing as with the caraccident). And u just wave it away, its not that simple. Go ask your laywerfriends. No its not. I know how liability works and none of this counts. I mean, we could make come creative arguments about harm based on MLGs actions. But the phrase "creative arguments" in the office is normally applied to terrible arguments. You realize no one is looking to sue MLG for liability right? I don't even understand what kind of argument you're trying to make anymore. I don't like to quote myself because it makes me look like TDL but seriously, do people not understand how completely fucking screwed you are if you don't qualify for season 1 of WCS? On April 22 2013 11:55 Dodgin wrote:On April 22 2013 11:48 Plansix wrote:On April 22 2013 11:41 m4inbrain wrote:But that still doesn't make any of what caused these problems their fault. And so it starts again. F'ing up brackets and letting Hyun compete was of course not their fault. It was mine. I apologize. ah okay, sorry for make you busy with this.
I was preparing for play against Miya for whole night and even I was dreaming that i play PvZ with a strategy.
But then I needed to play against Apoc who is one of my best friend in the world, also team member.
I really wanted to him make a spot on premier with great performance but when I saw the changed bracket, I was like "wtf is it.... wtf.. wtf..... " I couldn't think anything then, I and Apoc are really need to win something like WCS since we have no Dreamhack, GSL etc.
but anyway, If MLG was correct, I want to say sorry. No need to apologize, you're right to be angry. Especially because you prepared for something, which was rendered useless by MLGs mistake. You know I work in law and we submit things to the court all the time. Two weeks ago I submitted something with the wrong caption(header to a court document) and my attorney got called on it in open court. You know what he said: "My paralegal must have made a mistake, but the facts of the motion are 100% correct" And the Judge responded that it happens to everyone if they do this long enough. If it is good enough for Court, it is good enough for MLG. People make mistakes, in both law and SC2 events. Get over it. I don't think saying " they screwed up, get over it. " is acceptable when you consider what is on the line here. In case you don't understand the WCS system for 2013 I'll explain it to you. There are three seasons, with a season finals for each season. You get points for your placement in each season and season finals, plus some for non-wcs tournaments. If you are not able to get into the WCS qualifier for season 1, you not only miss out on being in the tournament itself but you are not able to be in Premier league until season 3 of this year because the way the qualifiers are done will be changed for season 2. In season 2 there will be no direct premier league qualifiers so you will have to qualify for challenger and then make your way to premier for season 3. Because of this mistake a player with the potential to compete in all 3 of the season finals this year now has no possibility to make it to premier league or the season finals for the first two seasons, and because of that they also have 0 chance to make it to Blizzcon where the most money will be given out. If I was a pro gamer and this happened to me I would consider retiring. Yeah, I just ignored your post because you tried to explain to me how WSC worked. And the players who didn't make it can still try out for Code A in NA. I know that is the end of the world and they will never catch up, but don't tell that to anyone in code A in Korea right now. Or Demuslim(I bet he is going to be fine and not retire) They can only try out for Code A in NA if they were top 40 in the qualifier, the Chinese players who didn't get in cannot play in the challenger league qualifiers. Being Code A in Korea is different because you have the possibility of being in Code S for season 2 which in that case you might be able to get enough points to go to blizzcon. That is rough and they should work with MLG to try to see if an exception can be made for Comm and the other players, since they clearly just misunderstood the rule about how the qualifier worked. However, trying to slid Comm in under the radar was not the way to do it. Exceptions can be made for great players and its clear China has a few. But this is not the way to get that accomplished and breaking the rules isn't either. The word "slid" implies he did it on purpose this way, but thats not the case. He posted on reddit which name was his.. there was no "slid".. or anything like that. He was ope about who he was. And we also have the 4 peeps that huyn dismantled.. and the others that got framed by the map/drophacker. How mny examples do u need.....
Comm did something he knew was against the rules. Also RootCaliber didn't know it was Comm he was playing against, so I'm 100% Comm was that open about it. The other guy was a hacker and they don't wear signs. RootCatz said it was great the way MLG handled him and he was glad about they way they responded(he was knocked out by the hacker). Hyung was a mistake, which was corrected. Mistakes happen.
|
On April 22 2013 12:42 ggrrg wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2013 12:22 Rostam wrote:On April 22 2013 11:41 Plansix wrote:On April 22 2013 11:38 Rostam wrote:On April 22 2013 11:34 Plansix wrote:On April 22 2013 11:31 stuchiu wrote:On April 22 2013 11:26 Plansix wrote:On April 22 2013 11:22 stuchiu wrote:On April 22 2013 11:18 AgentW wrote:On April 22 2013 11:17 ChaosShadow wrote:
[quote]
Maybe so, but that then calls into question the validity of the whole tournament due to swapping of players and brackets after games had already been played and people had already been knocked out. The only fair way of doing something like swapping entire brackets would be to re-do everything. That's fair, but we live in a world in which that doesn't work logistically. In my opinion, they did what was best at the point at which they had discovered their error. The first day of Premier WCS NA is on April 29. They could have just re-run the qualifier with enough time. So what about the players that qualified, they just lose out because a hacker played in the event? Or because a Hyun played when he wasn't supposed to? Or because Comm used an account he wasn't supposed to? If we want to talk about not fair, that would be the worst thing MLG could to players who did nothing wrong. Keep playing out the bracket as if it's an MLG and have the top 4 qualify or something like that. Make another new qualifier for the other 4. I don't think that is an option and its not really any of the other players fault that all this happened. MLG didn't know all these people were going to do this crazy shit. Yeah, poor MLG, they really ran the event so well with no mistakes whatsoever. Just bad luck all this shit happened to them. Sorry, am I raining on your MLG hate parade by pointing out that all this shit was caused by players being idiots? Is it a hate parade to believe they made mistakes? I guess you're just having a Comm hate parade then. The Comm DQ basically comes down to a matter of opinion. In my opinion, what he did does not essentially violate the intent of the rule and was not harming the integrity of the tournament in any way. You feel otherwise, I get it, no point discussing it further and MLG won't change their minds anyway. But putting that aside, please tell me how their completely terrible format was caused by players being idiots. 1) Too few spots - if there had been a registration priority like the Code A qualifiers (esf>kespa>masters++>everyone else) then it would've been fine. If they had kept a registration fee it probably would've been fine. Since those things did not happen, they needed to have a bigger bracket. They didn't, and it resulted in a lot of participants being excluded. 2) Bracket luck - Since the top 8 all advance, that means it's easier for less deserving players to qualify if multiple top players all get shoved into the same section of the bracket. 3) No forgiveness - Mistakes happen. Okay, maybe it was the fault of the Chinese players for not registering early enough. That's one of the benefits of having multiple qualifiers - if the players miss the registration, or if they have a bad day and drop a bo3 to a player they would normally beat, they can always look forward to the next qualifier as a chance to redeem themselves. With only one qualifier, there's very little room for error and outside factors can play a larger role than they otherwise would. MLG's decision to have the spots for the Challenger qualifier determined by their placing in the Premier qualifier makes it even worse. Fucked up in the Premier qualifier, or hit a really strong player early on in the lower bracket? Sucks for you, you not only lose your only shot at Premier but also don't get any chance to try to qualify for Challenger.Of course there were quite a few smaller issues with their running of the event, but this is basically the cause of most of the problems. It's a fucking bad format. That's actually incredibly terrible. They have a single qualifier for both their leagues, which has only 512 spots!? EU had over 4000 qualification spots for their premier league alone. KR had 576 spots for their challenger league. btw, I kind of don't agree with your 2). At least they had a double elimination tourney. That was probably the only good thing about the whole qualification.
Sure, it's better than having one single elimination tourney. But ultimately it's still pretty easy to get screwed by the brackets when you only have one tourney, double elimination or not.
|
On April 22 2013 12:45 LlamaNamedOsama wrote:
I'm also disappointed that MLG hasn't made a statement on this. They've usually been good about admitting when they've screwed up and making the right moves to address these issues.
Give them until tomorrow. Its midnight in this area and they are likely cashing it in for the night.
|
On April 22 2013 12:49 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2013 12:45 LlamaNamedOsama wrote:
I'm also disappointed that MLG hasn't made a statement on this. They've usually been good about admitting when they've screwed up and making the right moves to address these issues. Give them until tomorrow. Its midnight in this area and they are likely cashing it in for the night.
more like emergency PR meeting.
|
Catz only got a fast respond cause he is known in the NA scene, it seems MLG didnt try to get any backround for other regions, also they knew CN/AU and some others would try. So they could atleast know the big teams in CN/AU and last years WCS Regional top 3.
Sure some fault maybe lies at the players, but that doesnt make the mistakes MLG did better. After WCS was announced they had enough time to look up what i said or to get in contact with the big teams from China/Au over email, its just lazy that they didnt.
|
On April 22 2013 12:48 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2013 12:42 govie wrote:On April 22 2013 12:38 Plansix wrote:On April 22 2013 12:33 Dodgin wrote:On April 22 2013 12:30 Plansix wrote:On April 22 2013 12:28 Dodgin wrote:On April 22 2013 12:25 Plansix wrote:On April 22 2013 12:21 govie wrote:On April 22 2013 12:18 Plansix wrote:On April 22 2013 12:12 govie wrote:
[quote]
When a caraccident happens and its your fault. The guy gets his legs torn off and is an invalide. He cant work because of ur fault. Ill bet there are laywers enough out there that will get him payed his damages and future damages.
I don't know what argument you are trying to make, but you are making it really poorly. Nothing that happened to day resembled someone losing a limb. Ohh please... MLG fucked up in a way that progamers cant do there job right (exactly the same thing as with the caraccident). And u just wave it away, its not that simple. Go ask your laywerfriends. No its not. I know how liability works and none of this counts. I mean, we could make come creative arguments about harm based on MLGs actions. But the phrase "creative arguments" in the office is normally applied to terrible arguments. You realize no one is looking to sue MLG for liability right? I don't even understand what kind of argument you're trying to make anymore. I don't like to quote myself because it makes me look like TDL but seriously, do people not understand how completely fucking screwed you are if you don't qualify for season 1 of WCS? On April 22 2013 11:55 Dodgin wrote:On April 22 2013 11:48 Plansix wrote:On April 22 2013 11:41 m4inbrain wrote:But that still doesn't make any of what caused these problems their fault. And so it starts again. F'ing up brackets and letting Hyun compete was of course not their fault. It was mine. I apologize. [quote]
No need to apologize, you're right to be angry. Especially because you prepared for something, which was rendered useless by MLGs mistake. You know I work in law and we submit things to the court all the time. Two weeks ago I submitted something with the wrong caption(header to a court document) and my attorney got called on it in open court. You know what he said: "My paralegal must have made a mistake, but the facts of the motion are 100% correct" And the Judge responded that it happens to everyone if they do this long enough. If it is good enough for Court, it is good enough for MLG. People make mistakes, in both law and SC2 events. Get over it. I don't think saying " they screwed up, get over it. " is acceptable when you consider what is on the line here. In case you don't understand the WCS system for 2013 I'll explain it to you. There are three seasons, with a season finals for each season. You get points for your placement in each season and season finals, plus some for non-wcs tournaments. If you are not able to get into the WCS qualifier for season 1, you not only miss out on being in the tournament itself but you are not able to be in Premier league until season 3 of this year because the way the qualifiers are done will be changed for season 2. In season 2 there will be no direct premier league qualifiers so you will have to qualify for challenger and then make your way to premier for season 3. Because of this mistake a player with the potential to compete in all 3 of the season finals this year now has no possibility to make it to premier league or the season finals for the first two seasons, and because of that they also have 0 chance to make it to Blizzcon where the most money will be given out. If I was a pro gamer and this happened to me I would consider retiring. Yeah, I just ignored your post because you tried to explain to me how WSC worked. And the players who didn't make it can still try out for Code A in NA. I know that is the end of the world and they will never catch up, but don't tell that to anyone in code A in Korea right now. Or Demuslim(I bet he is going to be fine and not retire) They can only try out for Code A in NA if they were top 40 in the qualifier, the Chinese players who didn't get in cannot play in the challenger league qualifiers. Being Code A in Korea is different because you have the possibility of being in Code S for season 2 which in that case you might be able to get enough points to go to blizzcon. That is rough and they should work with MLG to try to see if an exception can be made for Comm and the other players, since they clearly just misunderstood the rule about how the qualifier worked. However, trying to slid Comm in under the radar was not the way to do it. Exceptions can be made for great players and its clear China has a few. But this is not the way to get that accomplished and breaking the rules isn't either. The word "slid" implies he did it on purpose this way, but thats not the case. He posted on reddit which name was his.. there was no "slid".. or anything like that. He was ope about who he was. And we also have the 4 peeps that huyn dismantled.. and the others that got framed by the map/drophacker. How mny examples do u need..... Comm did something he knew was against the rules. Also RootCaliber didn't know it was Comm he was playing against, so I'm 100% Comm was that open about it. The other guy was a hacker and they don't wear signs. RootCatz said it was great the way MLG handled him and he was glad about they way they responded(he was knocked out by the hacker). Hyung was a mistake, which was corrected. Mistakes happen.
U can frame it how u want... But MLG was really sloppy and alot of people are paying for it. Cant change the facts..
|
Wow i ve never seen a tournament with that much mistakes in it than this one.
I dont ususally hate on minor things (well this community is known for excessive witchhunts and hypocrisy) but that whole tournament was a fuck up. I wanted to write a summary on the fuck ups but the list is too long.
Srsly, DQing someone in the LOSERBRACKET FINAL is beyond all imagination. A known hacker can get to the round 8 of the LB bracket aswell, i have to shake my head. Then you have one stream, the whole winnerbracket gets streamed in one day where as you stream 90% of the LB bracket on the other day and then stretch out the few remaining games over four more days. Are you fucking serious?!
|
Where was it announced that challenger qualifiers are linked to this too, out of curiosity? That kinda seems like the worst thing ever.
|
On April 22 2013 13:02 shelfofjustice wrote:
Where was it announced that challenger qualifiers are linked to this too, out of curiosity? That kinda seems like the worst thing ever.
On April 20 2013 02:01 MLG Deimos wrote:Show nested quote +On April 20 2013 01:53 comabreaded wrote:Does 'WCS America Qualifier 1" indicate that there is more than 1 qualifier? I thought there were 2 qualifiers of 256 players ( http://i.imgur.com/rJ9Hpwe.png)? Is there now only 1 qualifier of 512 players, or 2 qualifiers of 512 players? There will be a 2nd invite only qualifier next weekend to decide the 16 players entering the challenger league. 9th-40th from the Qualifying Tournament 1, will get an invite the 2nd qualifier.
I dunno if that's where it was originally said or not, but that's where I saw it.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=408561#8
|
Wow and now the qualifier is totally ruined for me since i know the results, GOOD JOB MLG. God damn it how can someone fuck up this things so badly, they didnt even finish to cast the qualifier, no THEY WANT TO CAST THE QUALIFIER FROM REPLAYS, where the results are already known. I m so upset how this went...
|
I hope your a defense lawyer trolling TL to practice defending the impossible.
|
I think it's stupid that they saved the results and forced people to not reveal who won. It's actually ridiculous that they've done that. Also more koreans than americans in WCS_NA (roughly), anybody surprised?
|
On April 22 2013 12:45 LlamaNamedOsama wrote:
I'm also disappointed that MLG hasn't made a statement on this. They've usually been good about admitting when they've screwed up and making the right moves to address these issues.
I am sure we will get the Sundance "I get it" speal sometime this week. The errors this week were totally predictable and preventable, some on Blizzard and some on MLG. MLG wanted a fee to qualify, which was enough to make sure you were serious about the tourney, and with 512 slots there likely would have been plenty of room for all the serious contenders.
|
This tournament has just ended up in failure, hopefully they will learn from their mistakes and make WCS season 2 better.
|
Not sure if this has been touched on in this thread yet, but can we please make it a big point about the lack of another qualifier for challenger league?
Originally the format was two 256 player qualifiers. The first qualifier is for premiere and top 8 qualify, the second is for challenger and top 16 qualify.
Now it is just one 512 player qualifier, and they'll take the scraps that didn't qualify for premiere and place them in a 1 match qualifier to determine challenger league.
So basically, if you got bad bracket luck, couldn't play because of a prior engagement (re: life), or had a bad day, you are fucked for the entire season. Better luck in the ONE (1) qualifier next season.
|
On April 22 2013 13:46 feanor1 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2013 12:45 LlamaNamedOsama wrote:
I'm also disappointed that MLG hasn't made a statement on this. They've usually been good about admitting when they've screwed up and making the right moves to address these issues. I am sure we will get the Sundance "I get it" speal sometime this week. The errors this week were totally predictable and preventable, some on Blizzard and some on MLG. MLG wanted a fee to qualify, which was enough to make sure you were serious about the tourney, and with 512 slots there likely would have been plenty of room for all the serious contenders.
Fee doesnt solve anything.
|
Has MLG(anyone at MLG) made some sort of announcement about the backlash they are getting? It's not like they have only been getting it for a few hours today, they have been getting it since this started, and the only thing I've seen, is Sundance playing defense and acting like nothing went wrong.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
