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I never said the guy was not a good player...People mis-interpret what I said...I said that he didn't belong in GM because he is cheesing all games...in the next month maybe 2, all those all-ins will be figured out by the best players (most GM's and top Master's) and then, it will not work anymore...I simply meant that as long as he cheeses like that everygame, he doesn't show me anything worth of GM level...sure his execution is pretty neat and I can't take that from the guy...but the effectiveness won't last long in my opinion...not at this level at least. He will probably get demoted to top-masters if he keeps playing like that in the long run....However, with this execution, he clearly has the ability to step-up his game and stay in GM if he starts learning the mid-late game style.
and stop using the term all in, he didn't put everything in, if it were all in he would pull every single probe and have ALL his shit that can move IN the attack. Besides, depend on how much damage he dealt with the attack, the game could still be even and would proceed into mid game after the hold.
It is generally considered an all-in for protoss if he goes with alot of gateways and very few techs coming while not taking a third...For terrans, bringing SCV's is part of the all-in because of the mules that are still giving income...so, with your definition, Zerg and Toss would never be able to make a ''decent'' all-in  So yes they are all-ins...very well executed ones tho!
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Watched a few of your PvPs, pretty solid builds and I really like the 3 gate into SG one. I will be stealing it for sure 
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Some guys should have more respect from a Gm player when talking about Sc2. Capoch is Gm since the Gm league release.
Either non-P players, who for obvious reasons have no idea about the race at higher leveles, or not top P's; respect please.
So far the most successful Protoss in hots is MC. And he got his top4 MLG spot using mostly all-ins. Is the (sad) bane of the race in Sc2. Deal with it (kinda Blizz speach as how the game plays for the race).
Thx for the pack Capoch.
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On April 06 2013 12:07 pure_protoss wrote:I never said the guy was not a good player...People mis-interpret what I said...I said that he didn't belong in GM because he is cheesing all games...in the next month maybe 2, all those all-ins will be figured out by the best players (most GM's and top Master's) and then, it will not work anymore...I simply meant that as long as he cheeses like that everygame, he doesn't show me anything worth of GM level...sure his execution is pretty neat and I can't take that from the guy...but the effectiveness won't last long in my opinion...not at this level at least. He will probably get demoted to top-masters if he keeps playing like that in the long run....However, with this execution, he clearly has the ability to step-up his game and stay in GM if he starts learning the mid-late game style. Show nested quote +and stop using the term all in, he didn't put everything in, if it were all in he would pull every single probe and have ALL his shit that can move IN the attack. Besides, depend on how much damage he dealt with the attack, the game could still be even and would proceed into mid game after the hold. It is generally considered an all-in for protoss if he goes with alot of gateways and very few techs coming while not taking a third...For terrans, bringing SCV's is part of the all-in because of the mules that are still giving income...so, with your definition, Zerg and Toss would never be able to make a ''decent'' all-in So yes they are all-ins...very well executed ones tho!
So much elitism in this post where you basically look down on non-macro oriented play. It actually hurts just reading the elitism drip from this post.
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this elitism against cheese and timing attacks is part of the reason the foreigners gets own by Koreans. By that logic if his play were really not up to GM standard, then what standard do you consider all those who get beat by the cheese and timing attacks? are they up to GM standard? skill is what wins games period. you don't separate different way of winning the game and say winning game earlier is less skilled than wining game later.
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On April 06 2013 12:07 pure_protoss wrote:I never said the guy was not a good player...People mis-interpret what I said...I said that he didn't belong in GM because he is cheesing all games...in the next month maybe 2, all those all-ins will be figured out by the best players (most GM's and top Master's) and then, it will not work anymore...I simply meant that as long as he cheeses like that everygame, he doesn't show me anything worth of GM level...sure his execution is pretty neat and I can't take that from the guy...but the effectiveness won't last long in my opinion...not at this level at least. He will probably get demoted to top-masters if he keeps playing like that in the long run....However, with this execution, he clearly has the ability to step-up his game and stay in GM if he starts learning the mid-late game style. Show nested quote +and stop using the term all in, he didn't put everything in, if it were all in he would pull every single probe and have ALL his shit that can move IN the attack. Besides, depend on how much damage he dealt with the attack, the game could still be even and would proceed into mid game after the hold. It is generally considered an all-in for protoss if he goes with alot of gateways and very few techs coming while not taking a third...For terrans, bringing SCV's is part of the all-in because of the mules that are still giving income...so, with your definition, Zerg and Toss would never be able to make a ''decent'' all-in So yes they are all-ins...very well executed ones tho!
If he wins by cheesing then who is worse?
The person that cheeses or the person that failed to stop the cheese? I never get why people look down upon it, its part of the game. Koreans have been abusing it for ages in pro matches. I guess they don't belong in GM either.
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loved it, cheers and keep up the good work!
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Thanks for the replays.
I dont understand the whole "you dont belong in GM because you allin".
Capoch has been a top player in the region in every single RTS game that he played, and he was one of the top AoC players in the world.
I think he is very agressive in his playstyle mostly because of how AoC was played back in the day, a lot of forwards, etcs.
If you guys really think you've nothing to learn from a top GM and a guy that has been GM in most seasons in both NA and EU then i think you are quite wrong.
Its so stupid that you say something like "Thats why foreigns get owned by koreans", dude, most of Parting success was due to the Inmortal Sentry allin, he played that for months, destroying top korean Zergs.
Allins are part of the game, is not my playstyle, but as a master level protoss i think i can learn a lot from this replay packs, so thanks a lot Capoch, and haters gonna hate.
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MC and Parting don't take flak for doing basically the same thing, based around pure timings and micro.
I think people would be amazed at the cheese on Korean ladder. LOL @ the cheese being figured out and he doesn't deserve GM. Watch Korean GM buddy, never will you have seen so much aggression in your life.
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On April 07 2013 02:46 FuriousShuank wrote:
Its so stupid that you say something like "Thats why foreigns get owned by koreans", dude, most of Parting success was due to the Inmortal Sentry allin, he played that for months, destroying top korean Zergs.
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Nah he was saying the opposite, that the elitism AGAINST the cheese is why foreigners get owned. In foreign lands cheese and timings are looked down upon by many for some reason. In Korea they absolutely are not, quite the opposite they are a vital part of every series.
The other guy was saying he will be demoted soon. Which is funny because Capoch has been a top GM since the release of the game.
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On April 07 2013 02:46 FuriousShuank wrote:
Thanks for the replays.
I dont understand the whole "you dont belong in GM because you allin".
Capoch has been a top player in the region in every single RTS game that he played, and he was one of the top AoC players in the world.
I think he is very agressive in his playstyle mostly because of how AoC was played back in the day, a lot of forwards, etcs.
If you guys really think you've nothing to learn from a top GM and a guy that has been GM in most seasons in both NA and EU then i think you are quite wrong.
Its so stupid that you say something like "Thats why foreigns get owned by koreans", dude, most of Parting success was due to the Inmortal Sentry allin, he played that for months, destroying top korean Zergs.
Allins are part of the game, is not my playstyle, but as a master level protoss i think i can learn a lot from this replay packs, so thanks a lot Capoch, and haters gonna hate.
The reason is that people like to diminish other people accomplishments and claim that they got their off of coin flips. It is easier to claim he is not a good player, don't learn from the replays and be convince you are playing the "right way". Then when you lose, its not your fault.
The simply fact is that, all in or not, knowing solid timing attacks makes you a better player. If someone has a bunch of replays of really good all ins, they are worth looking at.
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So its ok to be greedy??
WTF guys.. if you lose to aggressive players that means you're not scouting or you're playing too greedy.
Get over being bad, and play the game.
Every race is fairly good at being aggressive, but if the aggression is scouted early then it should be fairly easy to hold.
+1 for capoch
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On April 07 2013 03:02 _SpiRaL_ wrote:
MC and Parting don't take flak for doing basically the same thing, based around pure timings and micro.
I think people would be amazed at the cheese on Korean ladder. LOL @ the cheese being figured out and he doesn't deserve GM. Watch Korean GM buddy, never will you have seen so much aggression in your life.
while i agree with most of you said, i dont think Parting and MC are good comparison.I agree they do alot of allins/timing attacks but reason they are so good with them(aside amazing control) is couse they can do macro game aswell so unless you scout that they cheese you need to play greedy/eco oriented just incase they do macro build and you dont lose couse you overinvested in defence of attack that may not come, and thats huge diff between them and guy that does all-ins only.
So while i agree there is nothing bad with cheese and its as good a win as 1h macro game, i cant see it being sucesfull on pro level whn you cheese only.Great for ladder tho..My 2 cents.
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On April 06 2013 11:49 pure_protoss wrote:
Honestly...I watched all your games and it could be summarized with: 2base all-ins every match (PvZ and PvT) because those where you took a third you all lost if I remember correctly (2-3 games maybe in the whole pack)....and didnt bother watching PvP...nice pack tho...gave me good ideas for all-ins I could perform on friends or maybe ladder when I want a quick game but well...once the meta stabilizes and the guides begins popping on the forum...I don't see how you will be able to stay in GM...sorry mate! To me a cheeser does'nt belong in the GM.
Marinekingprime proves you're marinekinglying. When he all ins his opponents start marinekingcrying because they know they will be marinekingdying.
While MKP will sometimes plays macro he loves his allins/super agressive play, everything from 11/11 to pulling his SCV's at ten minutes vs Protoss.
If you say MKP doesn't belong in GM you will leave me marinekingsighing
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I'll be sure to check out those replays and supporting your cause my liking your FB page!
Thanks for the replays, it always helps when skilled players give out replay packs so that the other lesser skilled players can learn from them.
I'm excited to see what all-ins you have come up with in HotS.
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On April 07 2013 03:02 _SpiRaL_ wrote:
MC and Parting don't take flak for doing basically the same thing, based around pure timings and micro.
I think people would be amazed at the cheese on Korean ladder. LOL @ the cheese being figured out and he doesn't deserve GM. Watch Korean GM buddy, never will you have seen so much aggression in your life.
difference is they win based on control and their opponents have to respect their late game as well because they are good players, which makes their allins stronger
with this fuck if you figure out what hes doing he loses, its just a matter of figuring out which ridiculous risk hes taking in any given game.
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On April 07 2013 04:15 IdrA wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2013 03:02 _SpiRaL_ wrote:
MC and Parting don't take flak for doing basically the same thing, based around pure timings and micro.
I think people would be amazed at the cheese on Korean ladder. LOL @ the cheese being figured out and he doesn't deserve GM. Watch Korean GM buddy, never will you have seen so much aggression in your life. difference is they win based on control and their opponents have to respect their late game as well because they are good players, which makes their allins stronger with this fuck if you figure out what hes doing he loses, its just a matter of figuring out which ridiculous risk hes taking in any given game.
i actually agree with idra, KR all in and macro because they're good at control and overall macro games, which makes them unpredictable
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On April 07 2013 03:12 .ramm wrote:
So its ok to be greedy??
WTF guys.. if you lose to aggressive players that means you're not scouting or you're playing too greedy.
This is the truth.
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On April 07 2013 04:15 IdrA wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2013 03:02 _SpiRaL_ wrote:
MC and Parting don't take flak for doing basically the same thing, based around pure timings and micro.
I think people would be amazed at the cheese on Korean ladder. LOL @ the cheese being figured out and he doesn't deserve GM. Watch Korean GM buddy, never will you have seen so much aggression in your life. difference is they win based on control and their opponents have to respect their late game as well because they are good players, which makes their allins stronger with this fuck if you figure out what hes doing he loses, its just a matter of figuring out which ridiculous risk hes taking in any given game.
and this mentality of yours had been keeping your ass beneath the Koreans. after you got told by rekrul so many years after that f91 series you still don't respect the game you play as your job. You still hasn't figure out what skill is in this game that is your job? skill is what wins games, you have no talent at this game if you don't recognize this.
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EPT
