On April 20 2013 06:29 Jochan wrote: Nice goal but in my opinion, now you won't reach that. Controlls already make it very hard, and on top of that certain people may never reach GM, I am not saying it is you, but even top master does not mean GM. There is a huuuuge gap between masters and GM, like from gold to diamond.
That's not true. GM level players stretch into masters pretty easily. Just because you have that gold tag doesn't mean you are one of the top 200 players. Top masters players regularly beat GM. I've played a few GMs on ladder, and beaten all of them. That doesn't make me GM (i've only played like 3) but it does mean that high masters is pretty much = GM. Earlier on in the season, you had 900-1200 masters players composing part of the top 300, i.e. there were only 100 people with 900+ points, and they were all about GM level. (Not sure what those points are now, 1300+ prolly)
Now, you can say the difference between 195 and 5 on GM is like platinum to masters or something. That's probably accurate.
Edit: Cress, how many points/bonus pool do you have right now? I'm curious!
No, no and one more time no. There are almost 11k masters players on NA that means there are 110 divisions. so according to you there are 2100 more GMs (top 7 in their division)... Yes there are some cases where people didn't log-in/played only after GM was populated but you can never be sure if they are real GM material without more information. On top of that divisions vary a lot. The biggest lie everyone tells themselves is, oh I am top X, I've been seeing league above me players so I must be promoted soon - no, that is not the case. Search criteria has been broaden, you no longer see "is favoured" you can go above/below your MMR. And beating GM players 1-2 times doesn't mean squat, everyone loses, even Flash and especially players on the ladder.
I agree with what Alryk said to an extent. The 200 GM limitation is arbitrary.. Once the league is full there are many equally skilled or better players that are left out and simply have the equivalent of GM MMR in high points. Top 8 doesn't mean anything because there are divisions with low points, but there are definitely plenty of top masters with high points and GM mmr who are on par with GM players and beat them regularly, at least 100 per server imo.
a lot of negativity in this thread. I believe you can do it. youll get it down to such a fine art. This kind of thing was said about wheels for racing games. When i raced forza for a clan we experimented with the wheel and we all came to conclude that the wheel ws just tooo unforgiving and the force feedback, even on the japanese imported models wasnt good enough (back in 2003) so we skipped it. our team went to xleague and played on a televised show for forza2 and the winners . . were all using wheels! they explained to us after the show and it simply came down to practice and they had a training regime 10x what ours was(not the mention it was their core belief that you should be playing racers with controls and in 1st person view ^^). You may start a trend here, not to mention the aspect of making this game accessible to more people who simply cant use the keys and mouse.
would love to see you playing ling baneling micro/marine split with stuttersteping with a controller, that would be epic to watch. any idea what stage you get to in marine split challenge?
On April 20 2013 06:29 Jochan wrote: Nice goal but in my opinion, now you won't reach that. Controlls already make it very hard, and on top of that certain people may never reach GM, I am not saying it is you, but even top master does not mean GM. There is a huuuuge gap between masters and GM, like from gold to diamond.
That's not true. GM level players stretch into masters pretty easily. Just because you have that gold tag doesn't mean you are one of the top 200 players. Top masters players regularly beat GM. I've played a few GMs on ladder, and beaten all of them. That doesn't make me GM (i've only played like 3) but it does mean that high masters is pretty much = GM. Earlier on in the season, you had 900-1200 masters players composing part of the top 300, i.e. there were only 100 people with 900+ points, and they were all about GM level. (Not sure what those points are now, 1300+ prolly)
Now, you can say the difference between 195 and 5 on GM is like platinum to masters or something. That's probably accurate.
Edit: Cress, how many points/bonus pool do you have right now? I'm curious!
No, no and one more time no. There are almost 11k masters players on NA that means there are 110 divisions. so according to you there are 2100 more GMs (top 7 in their division)... Yes there are some cases where people didn't log-in/played only after GM was populated but you can never be sure if they are real GM material without more information. On top of that divisions vary a lot. The biggest lie everyone tells themselves is, oh I am top X, I've been seeing league above me players so I must be promoted soon - no, that is not the case. Search criteria has been broaden, you no longer see "is favoured" you can go above/below your MMR. And beating GM players 1-2 times doesn't mean squat, everyone loses, even Flash and especially players on the ladder.
High master = top7 Top master = so much points that you are normally rank 1 in a master division
well, at least for me
Well I've held Top 8 for weeks at a time just by virtue of playing a lot of games. I'm not sure if just being top 8 really means much. You have an interesting way of rating top masters though =D.
On April 20 2013 06:17 meanmarine24 wrote: Impressive.
Cress, have you tried with the older xbox controllers? The big black ones. I modded one for PC recently, because i use a 360 controller for BF2 flying. Now, it's obviously a inferior choice due to it's lack of buttons and, for some, size.
However, i found that the bigger (just taller i think) analog sticks greatly improved accuracy. Have you tested this? Maybe a simple clip-on extender could give the same effect. I think it's worth looking into.
Interesting, in what way is your old xbox Gamepad Modded? I have not used the old xbox controller at all no. I have used the play station 3 controller some, but I'm more used to the xbox360 one.
Maybe there's a way to buy a clip extender? It would need to be very comfortable for the user otherwise it would probably hurt more then help.
A lack of buttons can always be compensated for by being innovative I've found.
I'm not sure how much a clip extender would help me. It would take me a couple of months to get used too before I even found out if it helped I think
This is something definitely worth looking into though. <3
Cress, if you want to look into extenders you can try these: http://www.kontrolfreek.com/FPS/KontrolFreek-FPS-Freek.asp. I used to use them back when I played XBox games more competitively. Not sure if they work or not, but I'm not really the most in tune person to that sort of thing anyway
Your precision with that pad is...incredible, actually, I'm a bit shocked. I don't think I could do any manner of the stuff you manage to with that game pad. Might be able to beat some lower league players, but...hmm.
On April 20 2013 22:38 taldarimAltar wrote: i doubt there's limit to skill, it'll just take a lot more work
I feel the same way. When Mr.Bitters asked looknohands if he was skill capped, he reply'd not even close. I think more time and effort will always show results. Regardless of the input being used.
On April 20 2013 06:17 meanmarine24 wrote: Impressive.
Cress, have you tried with the older xbox controllers? The big black ones. I modded one for PC recently, because i use a 360 controller for BF2 flying. Now, it's obviously a inferior choice due to it's lack of buttons and, for some, size.
However, i found that the bigger (just taller i think) analog sticks greatly improved accuracy. Have you tested this? Maybe a simple clip-on extender could give the same effect. I think it's worth looking into.
Interesting, in what way is your old xbox Gamepad Modded? I have not used the old xbox controller at all no. I have used the play station 3 controller some, but I'm more used to the xbox360 one.
Maybe there's a way to buy a clip extender? It would need to be very comfortable for the user otherwise it would probably hurt more then help.
A lack of buttons can always be compensated for by being innovative I've found.
I'm not sure how much a clip extender would help me. It would take me a couple of months to get used too before I even found out if it helped I think
This is something definitely worth looking into though. <3
I cut up one of the breakaway cables and soldered a normal USB cable into it. It's relatively straight forward, but you can also buy them ready made, which is probably a better use of ones time. Getting the drivers to work on W7 was the bigger issue.
The FPSFreek clipon that Rohan linked is what i had in mind, altough i'd be very wary of how well it mounts. You'd probably have to glue it on (with a solid glue like cyanoacrylate) to avoid a bending feeling in the stick.
Analog stick caps can be changed easily and costs 1usd a piece, so wreck away.
On April 04 2013 13:52 Demonhunter04 wrote: Did you get the 220 APM number from SC2Gears? What's your EAPM according to SC2Gears? I'm just curious.
My EPM Is something like 150. You might place too much faith on APM though XD. Maybe I'm not the fastest player on the planet, but at the very least it should show people what can be done with lower APM's. That is assuming 200 apm is low.
No, quite the opposite. When I asked the question, I was thinking of other players I know of with around 200-220 APM, like Marineking and Polt. Their EAPM is 170-180. I've watched your stream before, and while you are fairly quick in terms of button presses, you seem to get a lot less done per action than someone using a keyboard and mouse. I don't think controller APM is interchangeable with kb/mouse APM.
On April 20 2013 06:29 Jochan wrote: Nice goal but in my opinion, now you won't reach that. Controlls already make it very hard, and on top of that certain people may never reach GM, I am not saying it is you, but even top master does not mean GM. There is a huuuuge gap between masters and GM, like from gold to diamond.
That's not true. GM level players stretch into masters pretty easily. Just because you have that gold tag doesn't mean you are one of the top 200 players. Top masters players regularly beat GM. I've played a few GMs on ladder, and beaten all of them. That doesn't make me GM (i've only played like 3) but it does mean that high masters is pretty much = GM. Earlier on in the season, you had 900-1200 masters players composing part of the top 300, i.e. there were only 100 people with 900+ points, and they were all about GM level. (Not sure what those points are now, 1300+ prolly)
Now, you can say the difference between 195 and 5 on GM is like platinum to masters or something. That's probably accurate.
Edit: Cress, how many points/bonus pool do you have right now? I'm curious!
No, no and one more time no. There are almost 11k masters players on NA that means there are 110 divisions. so according to you there are 2100 more GMs (top 7 in their division)... Yes there are some cases where people didn't log-in/played only after GM was populated but you can never be sure if they are real GM material without more information. On top of that divisions vary a lot. The biggest lie everyone tells themselves is, oh I am top X, I've been seeing league above me players so I must be promoted soon - no, that is not the case. Search criteria has been broaden, you no longer see "is favoured" you can go above/below your MMR. And beating GM players 1-2 times doesn't mean squat, everyone loses, even Flash and especially players on the ladder.
High master = top7 Top master = so much points that you are normally rank 1 in a master division
well, at least for me
Well I've held Top 8 for weeks at a time just by virtue of playing a lot of games. I'm not sure if just being top 8 really means much. You have an interesting way of rating top masters though =D.
On April 20 2013 22:38 taldarimAltar wrote: i doubt there's limit to skill, it'll just take a lot more work
I feel the same way. When Mr.Bitters asked looknohands if he was skill capped, he reply'd not even close. I think more time and effort will always show results. Regardless of the input being used.
I don't know about that...I mean you're kind of suggesting the body can do superhuman feats if his muscles can act with the same precision and dexterity as his fingers can. They were never designed for such fine control, you're kind of limited by your body and evolution in terms of what you can do. Maybe when some electromechanical device comes out that replaces the hand.
Also just because he says he doesn't feel he's close to the skill cap doesn't mean he feels there is no skill cap - I think the time and effort would become exponentially high for him to see any return in results, to the point where there practically is a skill cap. Just thinking about it logically, when he states he's "not even close" to a skill cap that kind of implies he acknowledges that there is a skill cap, but he's not close to reaching it.
On April 20 2013 06:29 Jochan wrote: Nice goal but in my opinion, now you won't reach that. Controlls already make it very hard, and on top of that certain people may never reach GM, I am not saying it is you, but even top master does not mean GM. There is a huuuuge gap between masters and GM, like from gold to diamond.
That's not true. GM level players stretch into masters pretty easily. Just because you have that gold tag doesn't mean you are one of the top 200 players. Top masters players regularly beat GM. I've played a few GMs on ladder, and beaten all of them. That doesn't make me GM (i've only played like 3) but it does mean that high masters is pretty much = GM. Earlier on in the season, you had 900-1200 masters players composing part of the top 300, i.e. there were only 100 people with 900+ points, and they were all about GM level. (Not sure what those points are now, 1300+ prolly)
Now, you can say the difference between 195 and 5 on GM is like platinum to masters or something. That's probably accurate.
Edit: Cress, how many points/bonus pool do you have right now? I'm curious!
No, no and one more time no. There are almost 11k masters players on NA that means there are 110 divisions. so according to you there are 2100 more GMs (top 7 in their division)... Yes there are some cases where people didn't log-in/played only after GM was populated but you can never be sure if they are real GM material without more information. On top of that divisions vary a lot. The biggest lie everyone tells themselves is, oh I am top X, I've been seeing league above me players so I must be promoted soon - no, that is not the case. Search criteria has been broaden, you no longer see "is favoured" you can go above/below your MMR. And beating GM players 1-2 times doesn't mean squat, everyone loses, even Flash and especially players on the ladder.
High master = top7 Top master = so much points that you are normally rank 1 in a master division
well, at least for me
Well I've held Top 8 for weeks at a time just by virtue of playing a lot of games. I'm not sure if just being top 8 really means much. You have an interesting way of rating top masters though =D.
Hmm, not sure if this is thaaat interesting tbh.
Thanks for posting. I respect your opinion. However This is something I'm doing to just share with the community I play on the game pad regardless if I'm streaming or not XD. Every time I log into star craft 2 there's always people messaging me encouraging things.
So yeah. Even though there's always gonna be haters theres still enough support for me to keep streaming for you guys.
On April 20 2013 06:29 Jochan wrote: Nice goal but in my opinion, now you won't reach that. Controlls already make it very hard, and on top of that certain people may never reach GM, I am not saying it is you, but even top master does not mean GM. There is a huuuuge gap between masters and GM, like from gold to diamond.
That's not true. GM level players stretch into masters pretty easily. Just because you have that gold tag doesn't mean you are one of the top 200 players. Top masters players regularly beat GM. I've played a few GMs on ladder, and beaten all of them. That doesn't make me GM (i've only played like 3) but it does mean that high masters is pretty much = GM. Earlier on in the season, you had 900-1200 masters players composing part of the top 300, i.e. there were only 100 people with 900+ points, and they were all about GM level. (Not sure what those points are now, 1300+ prolly)
Now, you can say the difference between 195 and 5 on GM is like platinum to masters or something. That's probably accurate.
Edit: Cress, how many points/bonus pool do you have right now? I'm curious!
No, no and one more time no. There are almost 11k masters players on NA that means there are 110 divisions. so according to you there are 2100 more GMs (top 7 in their division)... Yes there are some cases where people didn't log-in/played only after GM was populated but you can never be sure if they are real GM material without more information. On top of that divisions vary a lot. The biggest lie everyone tells themselves is, oh I am top X, I've been seeing league above me players so I must be promoted soon - no, that is not the case. Search criteria has been broaden, you no longer see "is favoured" you can go above/below your MMR. And beating GM players 1-2 times doesn't mean squat, everyone loses, even Flash and especially players on the ladder.
High master = top7 Top master = so much points that you are normally rank 1 in a master division
well, at least for me
Well I've held Top 8 for weeks at a time just by virtue of playing a lot of games. I'm not sure if just being top 8 really means much. You have an interesting way of rating top masters though =D.
Hmm, not sure if this is thaaat interesting tbh.
Thanks for posting. I respect your opinion. However This is something I'm doing to just share with the community I play on the game pad regardless if I'm streaming or not XD. Every time I log into star craft 2 there's always people messaging me encouraging things.
So yeah. Even though there's always gonna be haters theres still enough support for me to keep streaming for you guys.
Anyway. I <3 you guys.
I think he was saying he wasn't sure if the way that guy rated top masters was thaaat interesting. :D
On April 20 2013 06:17 meanmarine24 wrote: Impressive.
Cress, have you tried with the older xbox controllers? The big black ones. I modded one for PC recently, because i use a 360 controller for BF2 flying. Now, it's obviously a inferior choice due to it's lack of buttons and, for some, size.
However, i found that the bigger (just taller i think) analog sticks greatly improved accuracy. Have you tested this? Maybe a simple clip-on extender could give the same effect. I think it's worth looking into.
Interesting, in what way is your old xbox Gamepad Modded? I have not used the old xbox controller at all no. I have used the play station 3 controller some, but I'm more used to the xbox360 one.
Maybe there's a way to buy a clip extender? It would need to be very comfortable for the user otherwise it would probably hurt more then help.
A lack of buttons can always be compensated for by being innovative I've found.
I'm not sure how much a clip extender would help me. It would take me a couple of months to get used too before I even found out if it helped I think
This is something definitely worth looking into though. <3
I cut up one of the breakaway cables and soldered a normal USB cable into it. It's relatively straight forward, but you can also buy them ready made, which is probably a better use of ones time. Getting the drivers to work on W7 was the bigger issue.
The FPSFreek clipon that Rohan linked is what i had in mind, altough i'd be very wary of how well it mounts. You'd probably have to glue it on (with a solid glue like cyanoacrylate) to avoid a bending feeling in the stick.
Analog stick caps can be changed easily and costs 1usd a piece, so wreck away.
I'm not competent with soldering though XD. I guess I'm stuck just straight up buying a new game pad every time one of the analogs loses accuracy
@ Cress, yeah if you play on the NA server, no doubt you can achieve master level.
Regarding your ranking (top, mid, low master) it would mean something like respe. mid master eu, low master eu, top diam eu. Wich is still really impressive.
I don't think you can do it to GM though, since the gap between masters (top) and GM is really wide. I think it's not about APM, it's simply about the fact that classical control is optimized for STR. And GM is all about optimizing.
100% sure that you will reach GM, Cress. It all comes down to practice, and you are doing it well. For many people this may seem impossible, but I seen a lot of amazing stuff done and I know that everything can be done if you really want. I can't wait for the first GM who plays on xbox! :D Looking forward to your future results.
EPT
