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On April 03 2013 03:04 Thalandros wrote:Show nested quote +On April 02 2013 21:00 hastur420 wrote:On April 02 2013 20:15 Wombat_NI wrote:On April 02 2013 18:49 shadymmj wrote:
For all of his drama queen syndrome he is actually a better player than stephano in terms of achievements. I believe that he can make it in Korea as he has been there, done that, and actually seems to show drive to compete. I'm more a Nani fan tbh, I do feel Stephano has better achievements, but I partly believe that is because Naniwa didn't really go around sweeping up foreign tournaments when he had the chance. His Providence run is the equal of pretty much anything Stephano has done in terms of the impact, that and Stephano's rise were the only two times where I didn't just go in hoping the foreigners did well, but really believed that they would do so. Going forward, Nani's willingness to put in the hours will see him rewarded at some stage, the guy has far too few medals for the quality of play he has consistently shown. nani didn't go "sweep up" foreign tournaments because he lost in the first round to dimaga or to bly. where as stephano won like 10 tournaments, many of them with koreans like bomber/mc/mkp/polt so you can't even say it were not the best koreans. all that naniwa won is 1 mlg ages ago, and he beat some koreans here and there and people come with the "he is better than stephano" bullshit lol when in truth stephano has more prize money, more wins, more wins vs koreans, more EVERYTHING, and not just slightly. his fans say "godslayer" when he cheesed flash out and then proceeded to get his ass kicked really bad in the extended series, i remember he even used shady tricks to beat nestea, quitting a match and pretending he didn't know it was cross only on metalopolis because he wanted his cannon cheese to work. also he got the luckiest brackets in gsl ever. none of these achievements are special. even huk/mana had better accomplishments, he is not even the best protoss. ps: even stephano's korean record is better than naniwa's. please guys get real. You describe my thoughts perfectly. NaNi's overrated, both positively and negatively, and yeah, he can be the best in Sweden, but that doesn't make him a code S player or anything. On the Nani vs Stephano thing, it's stupid, but even if it wasn't: Stephano's been top for quite a while longer, while also achieving more. I to be honest respect the ''no preparation, I'll just play and improvise'' way more than the giant studies some people (and I suppose NaNi too) do on other players.
I'd like to share some of my views on Naniwa. Firstly, he has proven that he HAS THE ABILITY to be a Code S player. However, as we have discussed to death on previous forums, he doesn't always work as hard as he should. His motivation stops and starts. I'm not making excuses, nor am I saying this as a proponent of Naniwa (which I am, but am saying this from an unbiased standpoint).
Next, saying
i remember he even used shady tricks to beat nestea, quitting a match and pretending he didn't know it was cross only on metalopolis because he wanted his cannon cheese to work.
Is using broad sweeping statements claiming the know the reasoning behind somebody's actions, when it has been talked about TO DEATH with no conclusion. You can be biased and create an argument against someone, but please do not shit up the forums with claims like that. There's no discussion in that. I won't say what he was thinking because it's all just speculation based on the viewer's personal opinions on the player before the incident.
his fans say "godslayer" when he cheesed flash out and then proceeded to get his ass kicked really bad in the extended series Fans, IMO, are not reflections of the player. Saying you don't like the nickname a fan gave him is one thing (which also has no place in this discussion), but then implying heavily that it was only justice that he should lose later because he cheesed is also ridiculous. EVERY player cheeses. If Naniwa studies Flash heavily, sees he has a weakness at a certain timing, and exploits that weakness, it's not gimmicky, it's rewarding diligence and perseverance. Props to Flash for adjusting his play to cover that weakness by the next series.
Lets leave the posts that are entirely based upon putting negative spins on things that are not even fact, lets leave them out of the discussion please.
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On April 03 2013 03:04 Thalandros wrote:Show nested quote +On April 02 2013 21:00 hastur420 wrote:On April 02 2013 20:15 Wombat_NI wrote:On April 02 2013 18:49 shadymmj wrote:
For all of his drama queen syndrome he is actually a better player than stephano in terms of achievements. I believe that he can make it in Korea as he has been there, done that, and actually seems to show drive to compete. I'm more a Nani fan tbh, I do feel Stephano has better achievements, but I partly believe that is because Naniwa didn't really go around sweeping up foreign tournaments when he had the chance. His Providence run is the equal of pretty much anything Stephano has done in terms of the impact, that and Stephano's rise were the only two times where I didn't just go in hoping the foreigners did well, but really believed that they would do so. Going forward, Nani's willingness to put in the hours will see him rewarded at some stage, the guy has far too few medals for the quality of play he has consistently shown. nani didn't go "sweep up" foreign tournaments because he lost in the first round to dimaga or to bly. where as stephano won like 10 tournaments, many of them with koreans like bomber/mc/mkp/polt so you can't even say it were not the best koreans. all that naniwa won is 1 mlg ages ago, and he beat some koreans here and there and people come with the "he is better than stephano" bullshit lol when in truth stephano has more prize money, more wins, more wins vs koreans, more EVERYTHING, and not just slightly. his fans say "godslayer" when he cheesed flash out and then proceeded to get his ass kicked really bad in the extended series, i remember he even used shady tricks to beat nestea, quitting a match and pretending he didn't know it was cross only on metalopolis because he wanted his cannon cheese to work. also he got the luckiest brackets in gsl ever. none of these achievements are special. even huk/mana had better accomplishments, he is not even the best protoss. ps: even stephano's korean record is better than naniwa's. please guys get real. You describe my thoughts perfectly. NaNi's overrated, both positively and negatively, and yeah, he can be the best in Sweden, but that doesn't make him a code S player or anything. On the Nani vs Stephano thing, it's stupid, but even if it wasn't: Stephano's been top for quite a while longer, while also achieving more. I to be honest respect the ''no preparation, I'll just play and improvise'' way more than the giant studies some people (and I suppose NaNi too) do on other players.
Two Code S Ro8 in a row means that he at least proved he was a "Code S level" (whatever that means) player back in the first half of 2012. Getting Ro8 of GSL twice is not a fluke no matter how many 'toss you face to get there.
IMO beating Koreans on their own turf is quite a bit more impressive than beating them in foreign tournaments, so I'd say that NaNiwa peaked higher than Stephano. But that's debatable. At the very least its not debatable that NaNiwa did way better in Korea than Stephano did, though motivation obviously played a big part.
And I guess I'm the other way, I respect players that can prepare for a match way more than those that don't prepare much. Different mindset on what is important about the game, I guess.
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On April 03 2013 03:25 Fischbacher wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2013 03:04 Thalandros wrote:On April 02 2013 21:00 hastur420 wrote:On April 02 2013 20:15 Wombat_NI wrote:On April 02 2013 18:49 shadymmj wrote:
For all of his drama queen syndrome he is actually a better player than stephano in terms of achievements. I believe that he can make it in Korea as he has been there, done that, and actually seems to show drive to compete. I'm more a Nani fan tbh, I do feel Stephano has better achievements, but I partly believe that is because Naniwa didn't really go around sweeping up foreign tournaments when he had the chance. His Providence run is the equal of pretty much anything Stephano has done in terms of the impact, that and Stephano's rise were the only two times where I didn't just go in hoping the foreigners did well, but really believed that they would do so. Going forward, Nani's willingness to put in the hours will see him rewarded at some stage, the guy has far too few medals for the quality of play he has consistently shown. nani didn't go "sweep up" foreign tournaments because he lost in the first round to dimaga or to bly. where as stephano won like 10 tournaments, many of them with koreans like bomber/mc/mkp/polt so you can't even say it were not the best koreans. all that naniwa won is 1 mlg ages ago, and he beat some koreans here and there and people come with the "he is better than stephano" bullshit lol when in truth stephano has more prize money, more wins, more wins vs koreans, more EVERYTHING, and not just slightly. his fans say "godslayer" when he cheesed flash out and then proceeded to get his ass kicked really bad in the extended series, i remember he even used shady tricks to beat nestea, quitting a match and pretending he didn't know it was cross only on metalopolis because he wanted his cannon cheese to work. also he got the luckiest brackets in gsl ever. none of these achievements are special. even huk/mana had better accomplishments, he is not even the best protoss. ps: even stephano's korean record is better than naniwa's. please guys get real. You describe my thoughts perfectly. NaNi's overrated, both positively and negatively, and yeah, he can be the best in Sweden, but that doesn't make him a code S player or anything. On the Nani vs Stephano thing, it's stupid, but even if it wasn't: Stephano's been top for quite a while longer, while also achieving more. I to be honest respect the ''no preparation, I'll just play and improvise'' way more than the giant studies some people (and I suppose NaNi too) do on other players. Two Code S Ro8 in a row means that he at least proved he was a "Code S level" (whatever that means) player back in the first half of 2012. IMO beating Koreans on their own turf is quite a bit more impressive than beating them in foreign tournaments, so I'd say that NaNiwa peaked higher than Stephano. But that's debatable. And I guess I'm the other way, I respect players that can prepare for a match way more than those that don't prepare much. Different mindset on what is important about the game, I guess.
I think even Naniwa would agree that 2 RO8 in GSL is not worth 4 premier tournament wins, I don't want to act like the brainless Stephano fanboy here, but at one point he (Steph) was one of the very best players in the world, so I need to correct you on this :x !
But I am hyped for Naniwa's new team and I respect him very much !
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On April 03 2013 03:25 Fischbacher wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2013 03:04 Thalandros wrote:On April 02 2013 21:00 hastur420 wrote:On April 02 2013 20:15 Wombat_NI wrote:On April 02 2013 18:49 shadymmj wrote:
For all of his drama queen syndrome he is actually a better player than stephano in terms of achievements. I believe that he can make it in Korea as he has been there, done that, and actually seems to show drive to compete. I'm more a Nani fan tbh, I do feel Stephano has better achievements, but I partly believe that is because Naniwa didn't really go around sweeping up foreign tournaments when he had the chance. His Providence run is the equal of pretty much anything Stephano has done in terms of the impact, that and Stephano's rise were the only two times where I didn't just go in hoping the foreigners did well, but really believed that they would do so. Going forward, Nani's willingness to put in the hours will see him rewarded at some stage, the guy has far too few medals for the quality of play he has consistently shown. nani didn't go "sweep up" foreign tournaments because he lost in the first round to dimaga or to bly. where as stephano won like 10 tournaments, many of them with koreans like bomber/mc/mkp/polt so you can't even say it were not the best koreans. all that naniwa won is 1 mlg ages ago, and he beat some koreans here and there and people come with the "he is better than stephano" bullshit lol when in truth stephano has more prize money, more wins, more wins vs koreans, more EVERYTHING, and not just slightly. his fans say "godslayer" when he cheesed flash out and then proceeded to get his ass kicked really bad in the extended series, i remember he even used shady tricks to beat nestea, quitting a match and pretending he didn't know it was cross only on metalopolis because he wanted his cannon cheese to work. also he got the luckiest brackets in gsl ever. none of these achievements are special. even huk/mana had better accomplishments, he is not even the best protoss. ps: even stephano's korean record is better than naniwa's. please guys get real. You describe my thoughts perfectly. NaNi's overrated, both positively and negatively, and yeah, he can be the best in Sweden, but that doesn't make him a code S player or anything. On the Nani vs Stephano thing, it's stupid, but even if it wasn't: Stephano's been top for quite a while longer, while also achieving more. I to be honest respect the ''no preparation, I'll just play and improvise'' way more than the giant studies some people (and I suppose NaNi too) do on other players. Two Code S Ro8 in a row means that he at least proved he was a "Code S level" (whatever that means) player back in the first half of 2012. Getting Ro8 of GSL twice is not a fluke no matter how many 'toss you face to get there. IMO beating Koreans on their own turf is quite a bit more impressive than beating them in foreign tournaments, so I'd say that NaNiwa peaked higher than Stephano. But that's debatable. At the very least its not debatable that NaNiwa did way better in Korea than Stephano did, though motivation obviously played a big part. And I guess I'm the other way, I respect players that can prepare for a match way more than those that don't prepare much. Different mindset on what is important about the game, I guess.
Thank you. Two straight Ro8 Code S appearances mean that NaNi is much better than many Koreans- end of story. You could even say "most" because most Korean players have not accomplished that achievement (consider all of the Code B/Code A allstars).
You can say whatever you want, but NaNi is Code S. Pretty simple. I'm not coming in here saying that NaNi is better than Squirtle or PartinG or MC, but not many Protoss have accomplished what he has in the GSL.
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On April 03 2013 03:31 RaelSan wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2013 03:25 Fischbacher wrote:On April 03 2013 03:04 Thalandros wrote:On April 02 2013 21:00 hastur420 wrote:On April 02 2013 20:15 Wombat_NI wrote:On April 02 2013 18:49 shadymmj wrote:
For all of his drama queen syndrome he is actually a better player than stephano in terms of achievements. I believe that he can make it in Korea as he has been there, done that, and actually seems to show drive to compete. I'm more a Nani fan tbh, I do feel Stephano has better achievements, but I partly believe that is because Naniwa didn't really go around sweeping up foreign tournaments when he had the chance. His Providence run is the equal of pretty much anything Stephano has done in terms of the impact, that and Stephano's rise were the only two times where I didn't just go in hoping the foreigners did well, but really believed that they would do so. Going forward, Nani's willingness to put in the hours will see him rewarded at some stage, the guy has far too few medals for the quality of play he has consistently shown. nani didn't go "sweep up" foreign tournaments because he lost in the first round to dimaga or to bly. where as stephano won like 10 tournaments, many of them with koreans like bomber/mc/mkp/polt so you can't even say it were not the best koreans. all that naniwa won is 1 mlg ages ago, and he beat some koreans here and there and people come with the "he is better than stephano" bullshit lol when in truth stephano has more prize money, more wins, more wins vs koreans, more EVERYTHING, and not just slightly. his fans say "godslayer" when he cheesed flash out and then proceeded to get his ass kicked really bad in the extended series, i remember he even used shady tricks to beat nestea, quitting a match and pretending he didn't know it was cross only on metalopolis because he wanted his cannon cheese to work. also he got the luckiest brackets in gsl ever. none of these achievements are special. even huk/mana had better accomplishments, he is not even the best protoss. ps: even stephano's korean record is better than naniwa's. please guys get real. You describe my thoughts perfectly. NaNi's overrated, both positively and negatively, and yeah, he can be the best in Sweden, but that doesn't make him a code S player or anything. On the Nani vs Stephano thing, it's stupid, but even if it wasn't: Stephano's been top for quite a while longer, while also achieving more. I to be honest respect the ''no preparation, I'll just play and improvise'' way more than the giant studies some people (and I suppose NaNi too) do on other players. Two Code S Ro8 in a row means that he at least proved he was a "Code S level" (whatever that means) player back in the first half of 2012. IMO beating Koreans on their own turf is quite a bit more impressive than beating them in foreign tournaments, so I'd say that NaNiwa peaked higher than Stephano. But that's debatable. And I guess I'm the other way, I respect players that can prepare for a match way more than those that don't prepare much. Different mindset on what is important about the game, I guess. I think even Naniwa would agree that 2 RO8 in GSL is not worth 4 premier tournament wins, I don't want to act like the brainless Stephano fanboy here, but at one point he (Steph) was one of the very best players in the world, so I need to correct you on this :x ! But I am hyped for Naniwa's new team and I respect him very much !
As late as earlier today after his win vs Starnan (I believe it was) Naniwa stated that neither money nor winning finals is as important to him as proving to him self he has skill. So my assumption is that he would not swap his 2 time GSL RO8 for 4 premier tournament wins (taken that the opponents are of higher quality in GSL than those premier tournaments ofcourse).
/kim
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hastur420's argument is pretty poor. Someone's complete record in the hardest tournament means little. He performed very well in two GSLs (ro8) and did very well in Korean-packed MLGs. Obviously, his greatest results are all from a year ago, but he was undeniably skilled. I would say that Naniwa was more skilled than Stephano at their peaks, but skill doesn't translate into results perfectly. It's also obvious that Stephano has more results.
His GSL groups were actually pretty difficult, excluding his Ro16 groups. Regardless, he did very well in the tournaments he cared about. He's easily top 5 foreigner, which doesn't mean a HUGE amount but he's proven he can compete with Koreans multiple times, so whatever.
Anyway, it's great to see him performing so well versus Swedes. Hopefully he will do just as well in Korea.
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Announcement of an announcement, are you serious ???
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On April 03 2013 03:34 Crownlol wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2013 03:25 Fischbacher wrote:On April 03 2013 03:04 Thalandros wrote:On April 02 2013 21:00 hastur420 wrote:On April 02 2013 20:15 Wombat_NI wrote:On April 02 2013 18:49 shadymmj wrote:
For all of his drama queen syndrome he is actually a better player than stephano in terms of achievements. I believe that he can make it in Korea as he has been there, done that, and actually seems to show drive to compete. I'm more a Nani fan tbh, I do feel Stephano has better achievements, but I partly believe that is because Naniwa didn't really go around sweeping up foreign tournaments when he had the chance. His Providence run is the equal of pretty much anything Stephano has done in terms of the impact, that and Stephano's rise were the only two times where I didn't just go in hoping the foreigners did well, but really believed that they would do so. Going forward, Nani's willingness to put in the hours will see him rewarded at some stage, the guy has far too few medals for the quality of play he has consistently shown. nani didn't go "sweep up" foreign tournaments because he lost in the first round to dimaga or to bly. where as stephano won like 10 tournaments, many of them with koreans like bomber/mc/mkp/polt so you can't even say it were not the best koreans. all that naniwa won is 1 mlg ages ago, and he beat some koreans here and there and people come with the "he is better than stephano" bullshit lol when in truth stephano has more prize money, more wins, more wins vs koreans, more EVERYTHING, and not just slightly. his fans say "godslayer" when he cheesed flash out and then proceeded to get his ass kicked really bad in the extended series, i remember he even used shady tricks to beat nestea, quitting a match and pretending he didn't know it was cross only on metalopolis because he wanted his cannon cheese to work. also he got the luckiest brackets in gsl ever. none of these achievements are special. even huk/mana had better accomplishments, he is not even the best protoss. ps: even stephano's korean record is better than naniwa's. please guys get real. You describe my thoughts perfectly. NaNi's overrated, both positively and negatively, and yeah, he can be the best in Sweden, but that doesn't make him a code S player or anything. On the Nani vs Stephano thing, it's stupid, but even if it wasn't: Stephano's been top for quite a while longer, while also achieving more. I to be honest respect the ''no preparation, I'll just play and improvise'' way more than the giant studies some people (and I suppose NaNi too) do on other players. Two Code S Ro8 in a row means that he at least proved he was a "Code S level" (whatever that means) player back in the first half of 2012. Getting Ro8 of GSL twice is not a fluke no matter how many 'toss you face to get there. IMO beating Koreans on their own turf is quite a bit more impressive than beating them in foreign tournaments, so I'd say that NaNiwa peaked higher than Stephano. But that's debatable. At the very least its not debatable that NaNiwa did way better in Korea than Stephano did, though motivation obviously played a big part. And I guess I'm the other way, I respect players that can prepare for a match way more than those that don't prepare much. Different mindset on what is important about the game, I guess. Thank you. Two straight Ro8 Code S appearances mean that NaNi is much better than many Koreans- end of story. You could even say "most" because most Korean players have not accomplished that achievement (consider all of the Code B/Code A allstars). You can say whatever you want, but NaNi is Code S. Pretty simple. I'm not coming in here saying that NaNi is better than Squirtle or PartinG or MC, but not many Protoss have accomplished what he has in the GSL.
Is he in Code S at the moment? No? Ok. He's not Code S. Pretty simple. Jinro's run in GSL is still more impressive to me than what NaNiwa accomplished.
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Naniwa said that he will go to Korea in just two days from now  . It feels like his team announcement is pretty close by now. Excited to see where he ends up .
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On April 03 2013 03:46 SupLilSon wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2013 03:34 Crownlol wrote:On April 03 2013 03:25 Fischbacher wrote:On April 03 2013 03:04 Thalandros wrote:On April 02 2013 21:00 hastur420 wrote:On April 02 2013 20:15 Wombat_NI wrote:On April 02 2013 18:49 shadymmj wrote:
For all of his drama queen syndrome he is actually a better player than stephano in terms of achievements. I believe that he can make it in Korea as he has been there, done that, and actually seems to show drive to compete. I'm more a Nani fan tbh, I do feel Stephano has better achievements, but I partly believe that is because Naniwa didn't really go around sweeping up foreign tournaments when he had the chance. His Providence run is the equal of pretty much anything Stephano has done in terms of the impact, that and Stephano's rise were the only two times where I didn't just go in hoping the foreigners did well, but really believed that they would do so. Going forward, Nani's willingness to put in the hours will see him rewarded at some stage, the guy has far too few medals for the quality of play he has consistently shown. nani didn't go "sweep up" foreign tournaments because he lost in the first round to dimaga or to bly. where as stephano won like 10 tournaments, many of them with koreans like bomber/mc/mkp/polt so you can't even say it were not the best koreans. all that naniwa won is 1 mlg ages ago, and he beat some koreans here and there and people come with the "he is better than stephano" bullshit lol when in truth stephano has more prize money, more wins, more wins vs koreans, more EVERYTHING, and not just slightly. his fans say "godslayer" when he cheesed flash out and then proceeded to get his ass kicked really bad in the extended series, i remember he even used shady tricks to beat nestea, quitting a match and pretending he didn't know it was cross only on metalopolis because he wanted his cannon cheese to work. also he got the luckiest brackets in gsl ever. none of these achievements are special. even huk/mana had better accomplishments, he is not even the best protoss. ps: even stephano's korean record is better than naniwa's. please guys get real. You describe my thoughts perfectly. NaNi's overrated, both positively and negatively, and yeah, he can be the best in Sweden, but that doesn't make him a code S player or anything. On the Nani vs Stephano thing, it's stupid, but even if it wasn't: Stephano's been top for quite a while longer, while also achieving more. I to be honest respect the ''no preparation, I'll just play and improvise'' way more than the giant studies some people (and I suppose NaNi too) do on other players. Two Code S Ro8 in a row means that he at least proved he was a "Code S level" (whatever that means) player back in the first half of 2012. Getting Ro8 of GSL twice is not a fluke no matter how many 'toss you face to get there. IMO beating Koreans on their own turf is quite a bit more impressive than beating them in foreign tournaments, so I'd say that NaNiwa peaked higher than Stephano. But that's debatable. At the very least its not debatable that NaNiwa did way better in Korea than Stephano did, though motivation obviously played a big part. And I guess I'm the other way, I respect players that can prepare for a match way more than those that don't prepare much. Different mindset on what is important about the game, I guess. Thank you. Two straight Ro8 Code S appearances mean that NaNi is much better than many Koreans- end of story. You could even say "most" because most Korean players have not accomplished that achievement (consider all of the Code B/Code A allstars). You can say whatever you want, but NaNi is Code S. Pretty simple. I'm not coming in here saying that NaNi is better than Squirtle or PartinG or MC, but not many Protoss have accomplished what he has in the GSL. Is he in Code S at the moment? No? Ok. He's not Code S. Pretty simple. Jinro's run in GSL is still more impressive to me than what NaNiwa accomplished.
Because he made it one more round in the era of BitbyBitPrime? Naniwa's run is pretty impressive and he always loses to great players.
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While Jinro's GSL results may sound impressive, it was also in an earlier era. If he had continued to do well, it would seem much more impressive, but unfortunately, GSL was the only results he ever had =/ (minus a 2010 MLG).
Anyway, there's little point in arguing over the results and significance of said results. This thread is for Naniwa's new team, after all...
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On April 03 2013 02:42 BeyondCtrL wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2013 02:21 TheSilverfox wrote:
Congratulations NaNiwa for winning Svecup and he is now 4800USD richer!
His total mapscore in HotS tournaments so far:
eSport-SM
2-0 vs Bobson
2-0 vs HobBe
2-0 vs Daz
2-0 vs StarNaN
2-0 vs RunA
Svecup Online Qualifier
2-0 vs oZone
2-0 vs dsMulti
2-0 vs Fruktig
2-0 vs Forsen
3-0 vs SjoW
3-0 vs Bischu
Svecup LAN
3-0 vs StarNaN
3-0 vs MorroW
30-0 Total. Badass. Nani has been crushing the Swedish scene completely.
Well, to be fair here: T-funk and Kim "The Hammar" SaSe were missing, by far his toughest competitors when it comes to who is #1 in Sweden 
However, I am very happy Nani does well
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On April 03 2013 03:24 GhandiEAGLE wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On April 03 2013 03:04 Thalandros wrote:Show nested quote +On April 02 2013 21:00 hastur420 wrote:On April 02 2013 20:15 Wombat_NI wrote:On April 02 2013 18:49 shadymmj wrote:
For all of his drama queen syndrome he is actually a better player than stephano in terms of achievements. I believe that he can make it in Korea as he has been there, done that, and actually seems to show drive to compete. I'm more a Nani fan tbh, I do feel Stephano has better achievements, but I partly believe that is because Naniwa didn't really go around sweeping up foreign tournaments when he had the chance. His Providence run is the equal of pretty much anything Stephano has done in terms of the impact, that and Stephano's rise were the only two times where I didn't just go in hoping the foreigners did well, but really believed that they would do so. Going forward, Nani's willingness to put in the hours will see him rewarded at some stage, the guy has far too few medals for the quality of play he has consistently shown. nani didn't go "sweep up" foreign tournaments because he lost in the first round to dimaga or to bly. where as stephano won like 10 tournaments, many of them with koreans like bomber/mc/mkp/polt so you can't even say it were not the best koreans. all that naniwa won is 1 mlg ages ago, and he beat some koreans here and there and people come with the "he is better than stephano" bullshit lol when in truth stephano has more prize money, more wins, more wins vs koreans, more EVERYTHING, and not just slightly. his fans say "godslayer" when he cheesed flash out and then proceeded to get his ass kicked really bad in the extended series, i remember he even used shady tricks to beat nestea, quitting a match and pretending he didn't know it was cross only on metalopolis because he wanted his cannon cheese to work. also he got the luckiest brackets in gsl ever. none of these achievements are special. even huk/mana had better accomplishments, he is not even the best protoss. ps: even stephano's korean record is better than naniwa's. please guys get real. You describe my thoughts perfectly. NaNi's overrated, both positively and negatively, and yeah, he can be the best in Sweden, but that doesn't make him a code S player or anything. On the Nani vs Stephano thing, it's stupid, but even if it wasn't: Stephano's been top for quite a while longer, while also achieving more. I to be honest respect the ''no preparation, I'll just play and improvise'' way more than the giant studies some people (and I suppose NaNi too) do on other players. I'd like to share some of my views on Naniwa. Firstly, he has proven that he HAS THE ABILITY to be a Code S player. However, as we have discussed to death on previous forums, he doesn't always work as hard as he should. His motivation stops and starts. I'm not making excuses, nor am I saying this as a proponent of Naniwa (which I am, but am saying this from an unbiased standpoint). Next, saying i remember he even used shady tricks to beat nestea, quitting a match and pretending he didn't know it was cross only on metalopolis because he wanted his cannon cheese to work. Is using broad sweeping statements claiming the know the reasoning behind somebody's actions, when it has been talked about TO DEATH with no conclusion. You can be biased and create an argument against someone, but please do not shit up the forums with claims like that. There's no discussion in that. I won't say what he was thinking because it's all just speculation based on the viewer's personal opinions on the player before the incident. his fans say "godslayer" when he cheesed flash out and then proceeded to get his ass kicked really bad in the extended series Fans, IMO, are not reflections of the player. Saying you don't like the nickname a fan gave him is one thing (which also has no place in this discussion), but then implying heavily that it was only justice that he should lose later because he cheesed is also ridiculous. EVERY player cheeses. If Naniwa studies Flash heavily, sees he has a weakness at a certain timing, and exploits that weakness, it's not gimmicky, it's rewarding diligence and perseverance. Props to Flash for adjusting his play to cover that weakness by the next series. Lets leave the posts that are entirely based upon putting negative spins on things that are not even fact, lets leave them out of the discussion please.
"i'm not making excuses" proceeds to make excuses, no comment
Naniwa of course won't admit that he deliberately quit that match to make his cheese work. he is a terrible mannered, controversial figure, and he quit the match BECAUSE HE DIDN'T SCOUT NESTEA 1ST TRY. do i need to explain to you how shady this looks, and how most other players wouldn't have quit that game? and your argument is that it's all speculation, he didn't admit it? that's exactly the reason why it is still shady. there is no evidence just the claim of a player who proved his poor sportmanship on several other occasions. maybe your naniwa-fandom filled mind forgets these things, but a lot of people don't.
also he put a GODSLAYER overlay on his stream when he was streaming, so it's not just his fans. also Flash was quite new to sc2 at that time, and god of a DIFFERENT GAME, so it's not even close to honorable to brag about your win vs him in a series that you actually end up losing. no, it's pretty laughable to be honest.
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On April 03 2013 03:53 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2013 03:46 SupLilSon wrote:On April 03 2013 03:34 Crownlol wrote:On April 03 2013 03:25 Fischbacher wrote:On April 03 2013 03:04 Thalandros wrote:On April 02 2013 21:00 hastur420 wrote:On April 02 2013 20:15 Wombat_NI wrote:On April 02 2013 18:49 shadymmj wrote:
For all of his drama queen syndrome he is actually a better player than stephano in terms of achievements. I believe that he can make it in Korea as he has been there, done that, and actually seems to show drive to compete. I'm more a Nani fan tbh, I do feel Stephano has better achievements, but I partly believe that is because Naniwa didn't really go around sweeping up foreign tournaments when he had the chance. His Providence run is the equal of pretty much anything Stephano has done in terms of the impact, that and Stephano's rise were the only two times where I didn't just go in hoping the foreigners did well, but really believed that they would do so. Going forward, Nani's willingness to put in the hours will see him rewarded at some stage, the guy has far too few medals for the quality of play he has consistently shown. nani didn't go "sweep up" foreign tournaments because he lost in the first round to dimaga or to bly. where as stephano won like 10 tournaments, many of them with koreans like bomber/mc/mkp/polt so you can't even say it were not the best koreans. all that naniwa won is 1 mlg ages ago, and he beat some koreans here and there and people come with the "he is better than stephano" bullshit lol when in truth stephano has more prize money, more wins, more wins vs koreans, more EVERYTHING, and not just slightly. his fans say "godslayer" when he cheesed flash out and then proceeded to get his ass kicked really bad in the extended series, i remember he even used shady tricks to beat nestea, quitting a match and pretending he didn't know it was cross only on metalopolis because he wanted his cannon cheese to work. also he got the luckiest brackets in gsl ever. none of these achievements are special. even huk/mana had better accomplishments, he is not even the best protoss. ps: even stephano's korean record is better than naniwa's. please guys get real. You describe my thoughts perfectly. NaNi's overrated, both positively and negatively, and yeah, he can be the best in Sweden, but that doesn't make him a code S player or anything. On the Nani vs Stephano thing, it's stupid, but even if it wasn't: Stephano's been top for quite a while longer, while also achieving more. I to be honest respect the ''no preparation, I'll just play and improvise'' way more than the giant studies some people (and I suppose NaNi too) do on other players. Two Code S Ro8 in a row means that he at least proved he was a "Code S level" (whatever that means) player back in the first half of 2012. Getting Ro8 of GSL twice is not a fluke no matter how many 'toss you face to get there. IMO beating Koreans on their own turf is quite a bit more impressive than beating them in foreign tournaments, so I'd say that NaNiwa peaked higher than Stephano. But that's debatable. At the very least its not debatable that NaNiwa did way better in Korea than Stephano did, though motivation obviously played a big part. And I guess I'm the other way, I respect players that can prepare for a match way more than those that don't prepare much. Different mindset on what is important about the game, I guess. Thank you. Two straight Ro8 Code S appearances mean that NaNi is much better than many Koreans- end of story. You could even say "most" because most Korean players have not accomplished that achievement (consider all of the Code B/Code A allstars). You can say whatever you want, but NaNi is Code S. Pretty simple. I'm not coming in here saying that NaNi is better than Squirtle or PartinG or MC, but not many Protoss have accomplished what he has in the GSL. Is he in Code S at the moment? No? Ok. He's not Code S. Pretty simple. Jinro's run in GSL is still more impressive to me than what NaNiwa accomplished. Because he made it one more round in the era of BitbyBitPrime? Naniwa's run is pretty impressive and he always loses to great players.
I had no idea that STX_Mini was a great player.
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On April 03 2013 03:36 Blargh wrote:
hastur420's argument is pretty poor. Someone's complete record in the hardest tournament means little. He performed very well in two GSLs (ro8) and did very well in Korean-packed MLGs. Obviously, his greatest results are all from a year ago, but he was undeniably skilled. I would say that Naniwa was more skilled than Stephano at their peaks, but skill doesn't translate into results perfectly. It's also obvious that Stephano has more results.
you're calling my argument poor
then your train of thought is: "there is more evidence that x is better than y, but i would say that y is better"
you shouldn't make an opinion about arguments, ever.
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On April 03 2013 04:02 hastur420 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2013 03:36 Blargh wrote:
hastur420's argument is pretty poor. Someone's complete record in the hardest tournament means little. He performed very well in two GSLs (ro8) and did very well in Korean-packed MLGs. Obviously, his greatest results are all from a year ago, but he was undeniably skilled. I would say that Naniwa was more skilled than Stephano at their peaks, but skill doesn't translate into results perfectly. It's also obvious that Stephano has more results.
you're calling my argument poor then your train of thought is: "there is more evidence that x is better than y, but i would say that y is better" you shouldn't make an opinion about arguments, ever.
Jeez guy, ease off the gas. I'm starting to get the image of you frothing at your keyboard. You don't like naniwa, we get it.
Also just some random trivia for everyone: Back in Brood War Flash was known for quite a while as the "Cheddar Terran" for his propensity to cheese, and he also had quite the stint where he would just go 14cc blind every game. So to complain about cheese being used against him seems a little funny to me. He sure got naniwa back in game 7 though.
On topic though, I'll throw my guess out for axiom/acer. Naniwa has spoken before about how he hated the language barrier and how lonely it made him feel to be surrounded by Koreans. The Ax/Acer house has guys who at least speak some english, Scarlett, and the fact that Ax is owned/operated by the Bains could give him that western cushion he needs to feel comfortable in Korea. That being said, I really don't follow the scene much so this is pretty blind guessing on the info I've seen.
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On April 03 2013 03:59 hastur420 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2013 03:24 GhandiEAGLE wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On April 03 2013 03:04 Thalandros wrote:Show nested quote +On April 02 2013 21:00 hastur420 wrote:On April 02 2013 20:15 Wombat_NI wrote:On April 02 2013 18:49 shadymmj wrote:
For all of his drama queen syndrome he is actually a better player than stephano in terms of achievements. I believe that he can make it in Korea as he has been there, done that, and actually seems to show drive to compete. I'm more a Nani fan tbh, I do feel Stephano has better achievements, but I partly believe that is because Naniwa didn't really go around sweeping up foreign tournaments when he had the chance. His Providence run is the equal of pretty much anything Stephano has done in terms of the impact, that and Stephano's rise were the only two times where I didn't just go in hoping the foreigners did well, but really believed that they would do so. Going forward, Nani's willingness to put in the hours will see him rewarded at some stage, the guy has far too few medals for the quality of play he has consistently shown. nani didn't go "sweep up" foreign tournaments because he lost in the first round to dimaga or to bly. where as stephano won like 10 tournaments, many of them with koreans like bomber/mc/mkp/polt so you can't even say it were not the best koreans. all that naniwa won is 1 mlg ages ago, and he beat some koreans here and there and people come with the "he is better than stephano" bullshit lol when in truth stephano has more prize money, more wins, more wins vs koreans, more EVERYTHING, and not just slightly. his fans say "godslayer" when he cheesed flash out and then proceeded to get his ass kicked really bad in the extended series, i remember he even used shady tricks to beat nestea, quitting a match and pretending he didn't know it was cross only on metalopolis because he wanted his cannon cheese to work. also he got the luckiest brackets in gsl ever. none of these achievements are special. even huk/mana had better accomplishments, he is not even the best protoss. ps: even stephano's korean record is better than naniwa's. please guys get real. You describe my thoughts perfectly. NaNi's overrated, both positively and negatively, and yeah, he can be the best in Sweden, but that doesn't make him a code S player or anything. On the Nani vs Stephano thing, it's stupid, but even if it wasn't: Stephano's been top for quite a while longer, while also achieving more. I to be honest respect the ''no preparation, I'll just play and improvise'' way more than the giant studies some people (and I suppose NaNi too) do on other players. I'd like to share some of my views on Naniwa. Firstly, he has proven that he HAS THE ABILITY to be a Code S player. However, as we have discussed to death on previous forums, he doesn't always work as hard as he should. His motivation stops and starts. I'm not making excuses, nor am I saying this as a proponent of Naniwa (which I am, but am saying this from an unbiased standpoint). Next, saying i remember he even used shady tricks to beat nestea, quitting a match and pretending he didn't know it was cross only on metalopolis because he wanted his cannon cheese to work. Is using broad sweeping statements claiming the know the reasoning behind somebody's actions, when it has been talked about TO DEATH with no conclusion. You can be biased and create an argument against someone, but please do not shit up the forums with claims like that. There's no discussion in that. I won't say what he was thinking because it's all just speculation based on the viewer's personal opinions on the player before the incident. his fans say "godslayer" when he cheesed flash out and then proceeded to get his ass kicked really bad in the extended series Fans, IMO, are not reflections of the player. Saying you don't like the nickname a fan gave him is one thing (which also has no place in this discussion), but then implying heavily that it was only justice that he should lose later because he cheesed is also ridiculous. EVERY player cheeses. If Naniwa studies Flash heavily, sees he has a weakness at a certain timing, and exploits that weakness, it's not gimmicky, it's rewarding diligence and perseverance. Props to Flash for adjusting his play to cover that weakness by the next series. Lets leave the posts that are entirely based upon putting negative spins on things that are not even fact, lets leave them out of the discussion please. "i'm not making excuses" proceeds to make excuses, no comment Naniwa of course won't admit that he deliberately quit that match to make his cheese work. he is a terrible mannered, controversial figure, and he quit the match BECAUSE HE DIDN'T SCOUT NESTEA 1ST TRY. do i need to explain to you how shady this looks, and how most other players wouldn't have quit that game? and your argument is that it's all speculation, he didn't admit it? that's exactly the reason why it is still shady. there is no evidence just the claim of a player who proved his poor sportmanship on several other occasions. maybe your naniwa-fandom filled mind forgets these things, but a lot of people don't. also he put a GODSLAYER overlay on his stream when he was streaming, so it's not just his fans. also Flash was quite new to sc2 at that time, and god of a DIFFERENT GAME, so it's not even close to honorable to brag about your win vs him in a series that you actually end up losing. no, it's pretty laughable to be honest.
I'm pretty sure Naniwa is just using that title description for his fans and nothing else.
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On April 03 2013 03:59 hastur420 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2013 03:24 GhandiEAGLE wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On April 03 2013 03:04 Thalandros wrote:Show nested quote +On April 02 2013 21:00 hastur420 wrote:On April 02 2013 20:15 Wombat_NI wrote:On April 02 2013 18:49 shadymmj wrote:
For all of his drama queen syndrome he is actually a better player than stephano in terms of achievements. I believe that he can make it in Korea as he has been there, done that, and actually seems to show drive to compete. I'm more a Nani fan tbh, I do feel Stephano has better achievements, but I partly believe that is because Naniwa didn't really go around sweeping up foreign tournaments when he had the chance. His Providence run is the equal of pretty much anything Stephano has done in terms of the impact, that and Stephano's rise were the only two times where I didn't just go in hoping the foreigners did well, but really believed that they would do so. Going forward, Nani's willingness to put in the hours will see him rewarded at some stage, the guy has far too few medals for the quality of play he has consistently shown. nani didn't go "sweep up" foreign tournaments because he lost in the first round to dimaga or to bly. where as stephano won like 10 tournaments, many of them with koreans like bomber/mc/mkp/polt so you can't even say it were not the best koreans. all that naniwa won is 1 mlg ages ago, and he beat some koreans here and there and people come with the "he is better than stephano" bullshit lol when in truth stephano has more prize money, more wins, more wins vs koreans, more EVERYTHING, and not just slightly. his fans say "godslayer" when he cheesed flash out and then proceeded to get his ass kicked really bad in the extended series, i remember he even used shady tricks to beat nestea, quitting a match and pretending he didn't know it was cross only on metalopolis because he wanted his cannon cheese to work. also he got the luckiest brackets in gsl ever. none of these achievements are special. even huk/mana had better accomplishments, he is not even the best protoss. ps: even stephano's korean record is better than naniwa's. please guys get real. You describe my thoughts perfectly. NaNi's overrated, both positively and negatively, and yeah, he can be the best in Sweden, but that doesn't make him a code S player or anything. On the Nani vs Stephano thing, it's stupid, but even if it wasn't: Stephano's been top for quite a while longer, while also achieving more. I to be honest respect the ''no preparation, I'll just play and improvise'' way more than the giant studies some people (and I suppose NaNi too) do on other players. I'd like to share some of my views on Naniwa. Firstly, he has proven that he HAS THE ABILITY to be a Code S player. However, as we have discussed to death on previous forums, he doesn't always work as hard as he should. His motivation stops and starts. I'm not making excuses, nor am I saying this as a proponent of Naniwa (which I am, but am saying this from an unbiased standpoint). Next, saying i remember he even used shady tricks to beat nestea, quitting a match and pretending he didn't know it was cross only on metalopolis because he wanted his cannon cheese to work. Is using broad sweeping statements claiming the know the reasoning behind somebody's actions, when it has been talked about TO DEATH with no conclusion. You can be biased and create an argument against someone, but please do not shit up the forums with claims like that. There's no discussion in that. I won't say what he was thinking because it's all just speculation based on the viewer's personal opinions on the player before the incident. his fans say "godslayer" when he cheesed flash out and then proceeded to get his ass kicked really bad in the extended series Fans, IMO, are not reflections of the player. Saying you don't like the nickname a fan gave him is one thing (which also has no place in this discussion), but then implying heavily that it was only justice that he should lose later because he cheesed is also ridiculous. EVERY player cheeses. If Naniwa studies Flash heavily, sees he has a weakness at a certain timing, and exploits that weakness, it's not gimmicky, it's rewarding diligence and perseverance. Props to Flash for adjusting his play to cover that weakness by the next series. Lets leave the posts that are entirely based upon putting negative spins on things that are not even fact, lets leave them out of the discussion please. "i'm not making excuses" proceeds to make excuses, no comment Naniwa of course won't admit that he deliberately quit that match to make his cheese work. he is a terrible mannered, controversial figure, and he quit the match BECAUSE HE DIDN'T SCOUT NESTEA 1ST TRY. do i need to explain to you how shady this looks, and how most other players wouldn't have quit that game? and your argument is that it's all speculation, he didn't admit it? that's exactly the reason why it is still shady. there is no evidence just the claim of a player who proved his poor sportmanship on several other occasions. maybe your naniwa-fandom filled mind forgets these things, but a lot of people don't. also he put a GODSLAYER overlay on his stream when he was streaming, so it's not just his fans. also Flash was quite new to sc2 at that time, and god of a DIFFERENT GAME, so it's not even close to honorable to brag about your win vs him in a series that you actually end up losing. no, it's pretty laughable to be honest.
God, where to start...
I didn't make excuses, I gave the facts of each situation. I never said I agreed or disagreed with what Naniwa did.
Why are you so venomous towards everything? I get that you have very few forum posts, but even if this is your first forum foray, the amount of negativity you spout makes TL look bad.
Flash had been playing Starcraft 2 for a good 6 months AT LEAST (I am just marking his first official match in SC2, not even when he started practicing it predominantly). And acting as though having the mechanics that he did meant nothing in a totally new game is silly. It's not laughable at all. Starcraft is not different enough that 6 months isn't enough for a Broodwar player to become the best in the world, much less someone a foreigner would be proud to beat.
Naniwa of course won't admit that he deliberately quit that match to make his cheese work. he is a terrible mannered, controversial figure, and he quit the match BECAUSE HE DIDN'T SCOUT NESTEA 1ST TRY. do i need to explain to you how shady this looks, and how most other players wouldn't have quit that game? and your argument is that it's all speculation, he didn't admit it? that's exactly the reason why it is still shady. there is no evidence just the claim of a player who proved his poor sportmanship on several other occasions. maybe your naniwa-fandom filled mind forgets these things, but a lot of people don't.
I almost responded in full to this. I really did. I feel like I'm being dragged down because of it.
The fact that you've resorted to personal attacks after creating an off-topic sensationalist post about hating on a veteran player incessantly (that's a good 2-3 commandments broken) just shows that we need more modding on this thread :/
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On April 03 2013 03:53 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2013 03:46 SupLilSon wrote:On April 03 2013 03:34 Crownlol wrote:On April 03 2013 03:25 Fischbacher wrote:On April 03 2013 03:04 Thalandros wrote:On April 02 2013 21:00 hastur420 wrote:On April 02 2013 20:15 Wombat_NI wrote:On April 02 2013 18:49 shadymmj wrote:
For all of his drama queen syndrome he is actually a better player than stephano in terms of achievements. I believe that he can make it in Korea as he has been there, done that, and actually seems to show drive to compete. I'm more a Nani fan tbh, I do feel Stephano has better achievements, but I partly believe that is because Naniwa didn't really go around sweeping up foreign tournaments when he had the chance. His Providence run is the equal of pretty much anything Stephano has done in terms of the impact, that and Stephano's rise were the only two times where I didn't just go in hoping the foreigners did well, but really believed that they would do so. Going forward, Nani's willingness to put in the hours will see him rewarded at some stage, the guy has far too few medals for the quality of play he has consistently shown. nani didn't go "sweep up" foreign tournaments because he lost in the first round to dimaga or to bly. where as stephano won like 10 tournaments, many of them with koreans like bomber/mc/mkp/polt so you can't even say it were not the best koreans. all that naniwa won is 1 mlg ages ago, and he beat some koreans here and there and people come with the "he is better than stephano" bullshit lol when in truth stephano has more prize money, more wins, more wins vs koreans, more EVERYTHING, and not just slightly. his fans say "godslayer" when he cheesed flash out and then proceeded to get his ass kicked really bad in the extended series, i remember he even used shady tricks to beat nestea, quitting a match and pretending he didn't know it was cross only on metalopolis because he wanted his cannon cheese to work. also he got the luckiest brackets in gsl ever. none of these achievements are special. even huk/mana had better accomplishments, he is not even the best protoss. ps: even stephano's korean record is better than naniwa's. please guys get real. You describe my thoughts perfectly. NaNi's overrated, both positively and negatively, and yeah, he can be the best in Sweden, but that doesn't make him a code S player or anything. On the Nani vs Stephano thing, it's stupid, but even if it wasn't: Stephano's been top for quite a while longer, while also achieving more. I to be honest respect the ''no preparation, I'll just play and improvise'' way more than the giant studies some people (and I suppose NaNi too) do on other players. Two Code S Ro8 in a row means that he at least proved he was a "Code S level" (whatever that means) player back in the first half of 2012. Getting Ro8 of GSL twice is not a fluke no matter how many 'toss you face to get there. IMO beating Koreans on their own turf is quite a bit more impressive than beating them in foreign tournaments, so I'd say that NaNiwa peaked higher than Stephano. But that's debatable. At the very least its not debatable that NaNiwa did way better in Korea than Stephano did, though motivation obviously played a big part. And I guess I'm the other way, I respect players that can prepare for a match way more than those that don't prepare much. Different mindset on what is important about the game, I guess. Thank you. Two straight Ro8 Code S appearances mean that NaNi is much better than many Koreans- end of story. You could even say "most" because most Korean players have not accomplished that achievement (consider all of the Code B/Code A allstars). You can say whatever you want, but NaNi is Code S. Pretty simple. I'm not coming in here saying that NaNi is better than Squirtle or PartinG or MC, but not many Protoss have accomplished what he has in the GSL. Is he in Code S at the moment? No? Ok. He's not Code S. Pretty simple. Jinro's run in GSL is still more impressive to me than what NaNiwa accomplished. Because he made it one more round in the era of BitbyBitPrime? Naniwa's run is pretty impressive and he always loses to great players.
BitbyBit beat Haypro and YuGiOh. He lost to Fruitdealer and Moon (in Code A). That's his "era." That's it. People call it his era because he stood out, made people laugh, nothing more really.
I mean... Polt won when TheBest made it to Ro8 (further than bitbybit). Or better yet, GSL 2012, Season 4 was the era of SuHosin by your logic....
I'm not devaluing Naniwa's run, but you don't need to be a total prick for devaluing Jinro's. Jinro made some sick runs man and he lost to some great players.
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The fact that you've resorted to personal attacks after creating an off-topic sensationalist post about hating on a veteran player incessantly (that's a good 2-3 commandments broken) just shows that we need more modding on this thread :/
what personal attacks, you special kid? calling you a naniwa fan is a personal attack now? also naniwa i am not hating on naniwa, i like to watch him play. you rabid fanboys think that realism is hating. the difference between you and me is that i am able to see clearly because i have no special feelings towards the guy. none of what i wrote was hate, they were all well based statements.
you on the other hand have absolutely 0 real argument, so you go on to fabricate yourself some kind validity to attack me, trying to imply that i should be modded. can't defend yourself so you cry and run to mommy?
User was warned for this post
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EPT
