1) Xel'Naga try to take back control of their experiment and come out as a fully-realized 4th race in the campaign.
contradicts established lore
2) Duran is a semi-good guy who deluded himself into thinking that he is reviving the Xel'Naga, when in fact he is making a horrible mistake.
makes less then 0 sense
3) An older race (with purity of form or essence) has been chasing the xel'naga across the galaxy and wants to ruin their experiments/take advantage for themselves.
this "older race" would ahve to be hundreds of millenia old and sounds so stupid "this other race who hates the Xel'Naga randomly apeared" how is that even different then the current story?
why would this other race even hate the Xel'Naga?
4) Duran is serving an ancient protoss cult that got separated from the Aiur protoss since before the Aeon of Strife. These "dark protoss" return from a nearby satellite galaxy to reclaim Xel'Naga territory as per the dictates of the Dae'Uhl. The protoss receive a giant population injection, allowing us to return to the large-scale battles that SC deserves.
makes even less sense then number two why would a random group pf Protoss go on vacation from Aiur, thena fter returning hire some random shapeshifter to commit blasphemy against the Xel'Naga (yes that is what NArud is doing) all the while keeping themselves hidden then jsut come in and say "hey cuz whats up"
how is there even a story there?
On March 25 2013 06:59 Rowa wrote: I had to turn my brain off the moment Kerrigan and Jim are separated by a broken bridge and she has a medivac on her side, but just goes away and then into a rampage through the whole galaxy to get him back instead of just using the damn medivac to pick him up...
I knew from this very point that there was nothing to expect regarding the script for the campaign.
have you considered there was a roof over Jim the whole time and the bridge leads from the building into an open air dock for spacecrafts to land....?
or since there was literally dominion everywhere she didnt ahve time to fly over and pick him up?
and even so it wouldnt ahve worked, when Kerrigan lifted off Jim was about to confront Nova so Kerrigan would ahve had to fight through Nova and whatever back up she had
On March 24 2013 16:13 Coppermantis wrote: The missions were lots of fun, but too easy. On the last mission, I just spammed vile roaches, respawning ultralisks and some hydras to focus down air units and basically A-moved to victory. Since the Ultras tanked for the littler stuff and just got back up when they died, I was floating over 10k minerals and close to that much gas by the end, I basically never had to rebuild any units. The other missions basically went by without much difficulty. There were a few tough ones, but overall I thought that the AI was not aggressive enough in attacking my base. I was only playing on Hard, so that might have something to do with it, but Kerrigan alone was almost always sufficient to defend my base.
Why would you complain about it being easy when you aren't playing on the hardest setting. Anything sub-brutal is probably ment for people who never dabbled with multiplayer at all, and only play the campaign and never again. Anyone who's been playing ranked gamesat all (I assume anyone on TL has) will obviously blast through it.
I personally thought brutal in HotS was a lot harder to get through than in WoL. And this was after having 1000+ games of SC2 more under the belt than when I completed WoL. I had to replay plenty of missions in all parts of the campaign. Compare this to WoL, where I don't think I failed a single mission untill the final one.
Of all the thigns I didn't like about HotS, the dificulty seems to me to be the one thing they have gotten right
The only way brutal was harder in hots than wol, was because terran have hellbats and you only have zerglings for the first few missions. Other than that Hots on Brutal was pitifully easy. The only way I got some challenge was from trying to get all the story achievements in 1 play-through on brutal. Even that only required 1 restart and I'm gold on ladder (although I was diamond in wol, and didn't play for a year).
So no. Brutal difficulty was easy, swarmhosts are useless, tarrasques are ridiculously op, and roach-hydra 1a-ing to victory is simple.
The story writing was cheesy as hell (I am soooo pissed they went the kiddy romance route). They recycled Warcraft's story, Amon = Archimonde, Protoss = nightelves, etc.
The only saving grace is that multiplayer in Hots is a breath of fresh air.
Just finished the campaign so I was ignoring this thread. I really liked the story, but after reading the OP I now know why. The last two gaming stories I had to slog through were D3 and WoL. HotS is The Godfather in comparison.
In retrospect though, yes there really are gaping holes in the story. That said I don't mind camp, and I realize games these days aren't for people who grew up playing sci-fi/fantasy games in the 80's & 90's.
On March 24 2013 05:39 McBengt wrote: 46% of the polled in this thread found the story anywhere between mediocre and terrible. Stop lying. If you don't care then just go away.
So you are counting
It was consistent with WoL, semi-adequate storytelling but it was not memorable or special.
on your side now? How is that saying the story was terrible if it is semi-adequate?
Still if you want to stretch your numbers that leaves you at the minority position even in team liquid. 54% loved the story or thought it was a step up from wings.
Try reading the entire sentence. Anywhere between mediocre and terrible. It was consistent with WoL, semi-adequate storytelling but it was not memorable or special = mediocre. And again, it doesn't even matter. I could be the only person in the world not liking this story, it still doesn't mean I shouldn't express my disatisfaction with the product.
Do you have anything to offer the discussion? Some analysis as to why the story is good, why elements you liked, how the actions and presentation of the characters resonated with you? Some actual substance as to why we are wrong, like a well thought out review of the plot and story-telling? Or are you just here to bitch and moan about people expressing their opinions? Because that would seem rather pathetic.
You responded you are the majority in the previous page. you were lying out of your behind and I decided to point out that even in team liquid your are of the minority position. On reddit, Bnet forums, amazon, metacritic you will be approaching tea party numbers as far as opinion of the story goes.
Fifty Shades of Grey and Twilight are among the fastest-selling paperbacks of all time. That said, anyone who knows anything about literature knows that they're poorly constructed, abounding in cliches, and are poorly written. And they're right. It's not a matter of opinion, it's a matter of expertise. Popularity has nothing to do with whether something has skillful construction. People who don't know any better will eat up virtually anything. The real gems are the stories that last because they have an appeal that isn't just flavour of the month.
If you think anyone is going to be talking about the Sc2 storyline 10 years from now (except insofar as it might relate to Sc3) you're kidding yourself.
The Bible is the biggest selling book every single year for the past 100 years or so. No book outsells the Bible. No book is as studied by schools, as references, or has as many fans and followers as the Bible. Because it has so many fans, it sells a LOT. Because it is ubiquitous, it is studied, and references a LOT.
Not everyone likes it, not everyone believes it, but if you are going to bring up book sales don't forget that there actually is a number one selling book that is normally ignored because all other books have no chance of beating it.
It wins in popularity, academic study, and vehemency of its fan base.
For example, I'm a big fan of Harry Potter--but I would never wage war in the name of Rowling. Whole countries do that for the Bible.
So yeah, popularity actual does translate very directly with cultural relevance if you want to talk about books, book sales, and book popularity. Wrong example, pick a different one.
You picked a bad example to prove that his example is wrong. The bible is not a book as Harry Potter. The bible's sales come directly from the fact that there is a huge religion based upon it. He was pretty clearly talking about entertainment. The bible is not entertainment.
Actually no,
He was suggesting that people are wrong for liking Fifty Shades of Gray and Twilight under the assumption that it is "obviously" bad just because he and the culture he is in are predetermined to dislike it when the truth of the matter is that the concept of "entertaining" is a fluid concept that is different from person to person and there is no objective right and wrong way for something to be entertaining and well made.
To some people Fifty Shades of Gray and Twilight are some the best things ever, to others it isn't.
If he wants to try to use sales, popularity, longevity, academic importance, most vehement followers, or most referenced work--the Bible beats all other contenders for that position by leaps and bounds. Does that mean the Bible is "right" book? No--it simply means its the book that happens to be the most studied, sells the most, has a crazy following, and is most referenced.
The truth is that it doesn't matter if it's the Bible, Fifty Shades of Gray, Flashpoint, or Heart of the Swarm--people will like it for their own reasons. There isn't a right or wrong way to create a work of art and just because any random individual dislikes it does not mean that it is bad, nor does it mean its bad if the majority dislikes it.
If we start to only care about the plurality and empirical stats to determine whether something is good, bad, relevant, etc... then pretty much any book that can't beat the Bible is a waste of our time.
Now you want to stick with the idea that he's "obviously" talking about entertainment--but I can guarantee you that those 50 Shades of Gray fans and those Twilight fans only cared about entertainment and for the most part the world feels those two books are more entertaining that the majority of works out there. If he's only talking about entertainment, then he should praise Twilight and 50 Shades--he doesn't, because he believes that "despite" the popularity of those two books, those texts supposedly don't contain a "deepness" that he feels the books he likes have.
Except if we want to go the route of deepness we can just bring up something arbitrary like the Bible to shrink down any and all competing text in deepness whether that be in how much it changes peoples lives, how much it is academically (and politically) discussed, and how often it is referenced in Western Culture.
Which makes him wrong in both counts whether he wants the topic to be about entertainment or depth. That is why I brought up the Bible.
And no, just because you and I find it boring does not mean that there aren't people out there who read the bible for entertainment. Don't limit your ideas of the world to just what you yourself feel is right and wrong.
It's funny that the inject larva mechanic is apparently too hard for casuals.
If I'm Kerrigan, and all I want is to kill Mengsk, I broadcast a message to every Terran world, telling them why I want him dead, and that if they give him up, no one else needs to die. At least then the civilians can sort of understand what's going on and maybe a faction within the Dominion will try to take Mengsk out, ala Valkeyrie.
The final level of WoL is way harder than the final level of HOTS. At no point did I feel threatened, while the last time I played the Char missions a few weeks ago that last mission was a pain. On Korhal, the enemy kinda trickles units at you.
I'm interested in the idea that Amon corrupted the Zerg and Kerrigan is the only way to defeat him. While a lot of story elements made little sense, this one is fine for me.
On March 25 2013 15:20 Falcon-sw wrote: Just finished the campaign on Hard. My thoughts:
It's funny that the inject larva mechanic is apparently too hard for casuals.
If I'm Kerrigan, and all I want is to kill Mengsk, I broadcast a message to every Terran world, telling them why I want him dead, and that if they give him up, no one else needs to die. At least then the civilians can sort of understand what's going on and maybe a faction within the Dominion will try to take Mengsk out, ala Valkeyrie.
The final level of WoL is way harder than the final level of HOTS. At no point did I feel threatened, while the last time I played the Char missions a few weeks ago that last mission was a pain. On Korhal, the enemy kinda trickles units at you.
I'm interested in the idea that Amon corrupted the Zerg and Kerrigan is the only way to defeat him. While a lot of story elements made little sense, this one is fine for me.
Mengsk is incredibly skilled at propaganda and control of opinion. In addition to that, he probably has a very extensive secret police. I doubt that Kerrigan would be able to turn public opinion against Mengsk, as he could easily just label Kerrigan as a coward and turn public opinion against her. Also, from Kerrigan's character, I don't think she would be satisfied with having someone else do the dirty work for her.
On March 25 2013 15:20 Falcon-sw wrote: Just finished the campaign on Hard. My thoughts:
It's funny that the inject larva mechanic is apparently too hard for casuals.
If I'm Kerrigan, and all I want is to kill Mengsk, I broadcast a message to every Terran world, telling them why I want him dead, and that if they give him up, no one else needs to die. At least then the civilians can sort of understand what's going on and maybe a faction within the Dominion will try to take Mengsk out, ala Valkeyrie.
The final level of WoL is way harder than the final level of HOTS. At no point did I feel threatened, while the last time I played the Char missions a few weeks ago that last mission was a pain. On Korhal, the enemy kinda trickles units at you.
I'm interested in the idea that Amon corrupted the Zerg and Kerrigan is the only way to defeat him. While a lot of story elements made little sense, this one is fine for me.
Mengsk is incredibly skilled at propaganda and control of opinion. In addition to that, he probably has a very extensive secret police. I doubt that Kerrigan would be able to turn public opinion against Mengsk, as he could easily just label Kerrigan as a coward and turn public opinion against her. Also, from Kerrigan's character, I don't think she would be satisfied with having someone else do the dirty work for her.
On March 25 2013 15:20 Falcon-sw wrote: It's funny that the inject larva mechanic is apparently too hard for casuals.
I also found that weird at first - why would they not use this campaign to teach larva inject as something fundamental to playing zerg.
But then I remembered mules were also not by default in WoL, they were only a special upgrade that you may or may not purchase. Plus, for casual training now there's training mode and vs-AI mode where in training mode they get hints about using larva inject as zerg.
Finally finished the compaign. And like many of you I am a little disapointed.
The game started so good, and I was literally twisting on my seat from excitement. But when she went back to the swarm it got much worse. First you need to get the swarm back (6 missions I think), then you need to go to these primal zerg (also around 4 missions). This felt like so much filler.
It seemed that Blizzard had a hard time creating meaningfull characters. I do think that the ones they did create were very good characters in the sence that they are Zerg. For me as a player, it was however, not very interesting. And most deifnatly the Primal Zerg, he said the same thing every time I talked with him. I dont get why I got so many conversations with this dude.
After that half the game feels like filler, and the characters are not very appealing from a player standpoint, it was kinda hard to keep enjoying the game (story wise). The next two mission chunks wernt very interesting either. From getting a distress call, to killing Narud was a little weird. I would have liked it much more if he was attacking me. Putting me in a hard situation. And that I get the pleasure of defending myself, tracking him down, and thrusting my wings through him. The save Raynor, was there, not very much to add to that.
And suddenly you are at the end of the game. Yay, we kill Mensk and its over. No troubles through the game whats so ever. Didnt even really see the Protoss. I have been barabbling way more than I intended, sorry.
TLDR: half the story feels like filler. Chars are not good from a player perspective. No plot twists, or strugle, what so ever. They might as well have removed Protoss from the game.
On March 26 2013 03:00 Deckkie wrote: Finally finished the compaign. And like many of you I am a little disapointed.
The game started so good, and I was literally twisting on my seat from excitement. But when she went back to the swarm it got much worse. First you need to get the swarm back (6 missions I think), then you need to go to these primal zerg (also around 4 missions). This felt like so much filler.
It seemed that Blizzard had a hard time creating meaningfull characters. I do think that the ones they did create were very good characters in the sence that they are Zerg. For me as a player, it was however, not very interesting. And most deifnatly the Primal Zerg, he said the same thing every time I talked with him. I dont get why I got so many conversations with this dude.
After that half the game feels like filler, and the characters are not very appealing from a player standpoint, it was kinda hard to keep enjoying the game (story wise). The next two mission chunks wernt very interesting either. From getting a distress call, to killing Narud was a little weird. I would have liked it much more if he was attacking me. Putting me in a hard situation. And that I get the pleasure of defending myself, tracking him down, and thrusting my wings through him. The save Raynor, was there, not very much to add to that.
And suddenly you are at the end of the game. Yay, we kill Mensk and its over. No troubles through the game whats so ever. Didnt even really see the Protoss. I have been barabbling way more than I intended, sorry.
TLDR: half the story feels like filler. Chars are not good from a player perspective. No plot twists, or strugle, what so ever. They might as well have removed Protoss from the game.
I definately agree on there being no plot twists. I kept expecting something to happen during the last level where you kill Mensk but all that happens is he pulls out the xelnaga artifact(?) and attacks Kerrigan a little bit and then boom he's dead game over. Was a pretty anticlimactic ending tbh.
On March 26 2013 03:17 Falcon-sw wrote: OH and I forgot to say
Did anyone else think maybe Kerrigan had infested Mengsk there at the end? How fantastic would that have been?
But apparently she just filled him full of C-4 or something so he blew up instead? Seems nebulous.
When his mouth glowed I squirmed in excitement as I thought she had infested him and that she was going to make abather torture him for eternity, ripping him limb from limb, putting him back together, and then doing it again all while keeping his brain and memories intact so that he suffers through all of it without a chance to allow him to get used to the torture.
On March 26 2013 03:17 Falcon-sw wrote: OH and I forgot to say
Did anyone else think maybe Kerrigan had infested Mengsk there at the end? How fantastic would that have been?
But apparently she just filled him full of C-4 or something so he blew up instead? Seems nebulous.
When his mouth glowed I squirmed in excitement as I thought she had infested him and that she was going to make abather torture him for eternity, ripping him limb from limb, putting him back together, and then doing it again all while keeping his brain and memories intact so that he suffers through all of it without a chance to allow him to get used to the torture.
On March 26 2013 03:17 Falcon-sw wrote: OH and I forgot to say
Did anyone else think maybe Kerrigan had infested Mengsk there at the end? How fantastic would that have been?
But apparently she just filled him full of C-4 or something so he blew up instead? Seems nebulous.
When his mouth glowed I squirmed in excitement as I thought she had infested him and that she was going to make abather torture him for eternity, ripping him limb from limb, putting him back together, and then doing it again all while keeping his brain and memories intact so that he suffers through all of it without a chance to allow him to get used to the torture.
On March 26 2013 03:17 Falcon-sw wrote: OH and I forgot to say
Did anyone else think maybe Kerrigan had infested Mengsk there at the end? How fantastic would that have been?
But apparently she just filled him full of C-4 or something so he blew up instead? Seems nebulous.
When his mouth glowed I squirmed in excitement as I thought she had infested him and that she was going to make abather torture him for eternity, ripping him limb from limb, putting him back together, and then doing it again all while keeping his brain and memories intact so that he suffers through all of it without a chance to allow him to get used to the torture.
And then the room blew up....
I was very saddened that she simply killed him...
the game is rated T after all...
They don't have to have to actually show it.
It could be like
"You turned us all into monsters..."
Fade to Kerrigan entering abather's chambers dragging mengsk's body and tossing it to abather.
"Death's too forgiving for people like us."
"Specimen, insufficient"
"Take as long as you need"
"No... No..."
Cut to black as mengsk's scream can be heard in the distance. Fades up to Raynor overlooking the city as Zerg forces are flying skyward in the horizon. He looks around Mengk's chambers, and then glances out the shattered city in the window. Kerrigan's voice can be heard behind him.
"You pig"
Raynor turns around and finds himself still in an empty room, he chuckles.
"Right... You're a telepath."
He hears Sarah speaking into his mind as he turns his gaze up to the leviathan.
"I'm sorry Jim... It seems I was always destined to be a monster..."
"No darling, I was the one that left ya down there all those years ago... I'm the one a needs atoning, this whole mess is my fault..."
"Quit the knight and shining armor routine... It suits you sometimes but..."
"I love you too Sarah."
----------------------
But instead they just have her cast psi storm in his mouth? Lame
On March 25 2013 15:20 Falcon-sw wrote: It's funny that the inject larva mechanic is apparently too hard for casuals.
I also found that weird at first - why would they not use this campaign to teach larva inject as something fundamental to playing zerg.
But then I remembered mules were also not by default in WoL, they were only a special upgrade that you may or may not purchase. Plus, for casual training now there's training mode and vs-AI mode where in training mode they get hints about using larva inject as zerg.
True but the issue is, the campaign serves as a tutorial to playing Zerg. Spreading creep, expanding reliably (you didn't have to in WoL!), maintaining macro etc. But then you go online and find out zerg is completely different.
On March 25 2013 15:20 Falcon-sw wrote: It's funny that the inject larva mechanic is apparently too hard for casuals.
I also found that weird at first - why would they not use this campaign to teach larva inject as something fundamental to playing zerg.
But then I remembered mules were also not by default in WoL, they were only a special upgrade that you may or may not purchase. Plus, for casual training now there's training mode and vs-AI mode where in training mode they get hints about using larva inject as zerg.
I actually think the inject larva decision was a good one.
Zerg relies on larva injection a bit too much, so having it included in the campaign would create a huge disparity between casuals (who wouldn't understand why the mechanism is so important and even if they did wouldn't have the ability to execute it anywhere near efficiently) and "regulars" who would have the technique ingrained in their muscle memory and who would be injecting larva on the clock. Missions with inject larva included would be a balancing nightmare - every difficulty level would need to take the ability to inject larva into account, and I'm pretty sure the pendulum would swing in the favor of casuals so even the hardest level would be even easier for anyone used in the technique.
Of course, the "inject larva"-less campaign will also result in hoardes pretty incompetent Zergs popping up in lower leagues who will be very confused why they suddenly aren't able to produce vast amounts of units from one single hatchery but hey, life sucks sometimes.
On March 26 2013 03:17 Falcon-sw wrote: OH and I forgot to say
Did anyone else think maybe Kerrigan had infested Mengsk there at the end? How fantastic would that have been?
But apparently she just filled him full of C-4 or something so he blew up instead? Seems nebulous.
Would've been cool. In fact, any kind of plot twist would've been a very welcome addition.
I would've loved if it was Valerian who kills Mengsk in the end, immediately giving this creepy vibe that not everything is right with this prince and we might just go from bad to worse. Valerian's character is so goddamn boring, not sure if they flesh him out in the books but in the games he might as well not exist.
Hell, he could've even said "succeeding you, father" as the last words.
EPT
