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On March 24 2013 05:07 Cyrak wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2013 04:59 DaveVAH wrote:On March 22 2013 22:58 McBengt wrote:On March 22 2013 21:53 johnny123 wrote:On March 22 2013 21:44 McBengt wrote:On March 22 2013 21:40 johnny123 wrote:
I hate the very notion of this thread, complaining about the story.
What a strange sentiment. Storytelling is a key element of single player, many would say the most important. If the storytelling is bad, the single player is bad. For many, single player is a huge part of the game and a primary motivation for buying it. We complain about multiplayer all the time and it's (rightfully so) considered perfectly reasonable. Complaining about the quality of the story should not be any less taboo. As i said, the story was not bad, and it had to be written in a way to get a wide variety of missions. I was pointing out to the OP where he said why does kerrigan even need to evolve into this primal zerg to defeat mengsk when the zerg swarm is strong enough already as if its stupid story telling. When i try to say the story has to be written in a way to make sense of the missions. Blizzard could easily have proposed such an idea and just kill menghsk off within the first 3 missions without any need for going to zerg homeworld to kill prime pack leaders or any off the other stuff they put into the game. But that wouldnt be any fun would it? I dont have any quims with the story telling.. Well i do but its not anything to do with whats being mentioned here. My only problem with hots story is that Kerrigan fought really hard to get Jim freed from the capture and all jim seemed to care about is complaining about why she turned back into queen of blades. No hug? no kiss'es? thats my only gripe. The thing is, I, and many others judgning by this thread, disagree with you. We do in fact think the story was bad. And here we are trying to explain why and how. That is the purpose of a forum. If you have another opinion that's fine, but just because you said the story was good enough for you does not make it true for others. There are a myriad options for how to improve the storytelling without having gameplay suffer, and blizzard with some of the best designers in the world can certainly make it happen. The current plot arch and hollow story is intentional, and we think that is a bad thing. Looking at the poll even in this TL thread (A very elitist place) a majority (54%) thought the story was better than wol or stellar. Your opinion of the story being horrible is at the bottom 7%. You lose pal. Only 49% of Americans think that Barack Obama is a Christian, so I guess he must be lying. .
Oh nice cop out. Unfortunately for you I am well versed it politics and know that your number is a made up crap. Source your 49% in a legitimate recent poll please. Most likely you meant 49% of REPUBLICANS but then again your sourcing and relying of information is probably as accurate as your review of this game.
Again you folks are a small minority within a minority even in team liquid. Enjoy shouting on top of your lungs but I doubt many will hear your or care what you have to say.
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46% of the polled in this thread found the story anywhere between mediocre and terrible. Stop lying. If you don't care then just go away.
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On March 24 2013 05:39 McBengt wrote:
46% of the polled in this thread found the story anywhere between mediocre and terrible. Stop lying. If you don't care then just go away.
So you are counting
It was consistent with WoL, semi-adequate storytelling but it was not memorable or special.
on your side now? How is that saying the story was terrible if it is semi-adequate?
Still if you want to stretch your numbers that leaves you at the minority position even in team liquid. 54% loved the story or thought it was a step up from wings. You are not going to get anywhere with those numbers on your home turf pal.
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On March 24 2013 05:44 DaveVAH wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2013 05:39 McBengt wrote:
46% of the polled in this thread found the story anywhere between mediocre and terrible. Stop lying. If you don't care then just go away. So you are counting Show nested quote +It was consistent with WoL, semi-adequate storytelling but it was not memorable or special. on your side now? How is that saying the story was terrible if it is semi-adequate? Still if you want to stretch your numbers that leaves you at the minority position even in team liquid. 54% loved the story or thought it was a step up from wings. You are not going to get anywhere with those numbers on your home turf pal.
...
He said "anywhere between mediocre and terrible."
Did you even bother to read his post?
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On March 24 2013 05:49 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2013 05:44 DaveVAH wrote:On March 24 2013 05:39 McBengt wrote:
46% of the polled in this thread found the story anywhere between mediocre and terrible. Stop lying. If you don't care then just go away. So you are counting It was consistent with WoL, semi-adequate storytelling but it was not memorable or special. on your side now? How is that saying the story was terrible if it is semi-adequate? Still if you want to stretch your numbers that leaves you at the minority position even in team liquid. 54% loved the story or thought it was a step up from wings. You are not going to get anywhere with those numbers on your home turf pal. ... He said "anywhere between mediocre and terrible." Did you even bother to read his post?
And I gave him his precious numbers. Still less than what mitt romney got in the election to reference the previous poster who brought politics into this. LOL.
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On March 24 2013 05:44 DaveVAH wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2013 05:39 McBengt wrote:
46% of the polled in this thread found the story anywhere between mediocre and terrible. Stop lying. If you don't care then just go away. So you are counting Show nested quote +It was consistent with WoL, semi-adequate storytelling but it was not memorable or special. on your side now? How is that saying the story was terrible if it is semi-adequate? Still if you want to stretch your numbers that leaves you at the minority position even in team liquid. 54% loved the story or thought it was a step up from wings.
Try reading the entire sentence. Anywhere between mediocre and terrible. It was consistent with WoL, semi-adequate storytelling but it was not memorable or special = mediocre. And again, it doesn't even matter. I could be the only person in the world not liking this story, it still doesn't mean I shouldn't express my disatisfaction with the product.
Do you have anything to offer the discussion? Some analysis as to why the story is good, what elements you liked, how the actions and presentation of the characters resonated with you? Some actual substance as to why we are wrong, like a well thought out review of the plot and story-telling? Or are you just here to bitch and moan about people expressing their opinions? Because that would seem rather pathetic.
And I could not be Romney I'm afraid, I seem to have misplaced my magic underwear.
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On March 24 2013 05:54 McBengt wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2013 05:44 DaveVAH wrote:On March 24 2013 05:39 McBengt wrote:
46% of the polled in this thread found the story anywhere between mediocre and terrible. Stop lying. If you don't care then just go away. So you are counting It was consistent with WoL, semi-adequate storytelling but it was not memorable or special. on your side now? How is that saying the story was terrible if it is semi-adequate? Still if you want to stretch your numbers that leaves you at the minority position even in team liquid. 54% loved the story or thought it was a step up from wings. Try reading the entire sentence. Anywhere between mediocre and terrible. It was consistent with WoL, semi-adequate storytelling but it was not memorable or special = mediocre. And again, it doesn't even matter. I could be the only person in the world not liking this story, it still doesn't mean I shouldn't express my disatisfaction with the product. Do you have anything to offer the discussion? Some analysis as to why the story is good, why elements you liked, how the actions and presentation of the characters resonated with you? Some actual substance as to why we are wrong, like a well thought out review of the plot and story-telling? Or are you just here to bitch and moan about people expressing their opinions? Because that would seem rather pathetic.
You implied you have the majority opinion on your side in the previous page. You were lying out of your behind and I decided to point out that even in team liquid your are of the minority position. On reddit, Bnet forums, amazon, metacritic you will be approaching tea party numbers as far as opinion of the story goes.
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On March 24 2013 05:57 DaveVAH wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2013 05:54 McBengt wrote:On March 24 2013 05:44 DaveVAH wrote:On March 24 2013 05:39 McBengt wrote:
46% of the polled in this thread found the story anywhere between mediocre and terrible. Stop lying. If you don't care then just go away. So you are counting It was consistent with WoL, semi-adequate storytelling but it was not memorable or special. on your side now? How is that saying the story was terrible if it is semi-adequate? Still if you want to stretch your numbers that leaves you at the minority position even in team liquid. 54% loved the story or thought it was a step up from wings. Try reading the entire sentence. Anywhere between mediocre and terrible. It was consistent with WoL, semi-adequate storytelling but it was not memorable or special = mediocre. And again, it doesn't even matter. I could be the only person in the world not liking this story, it still doesn't mean I shouldn't express my disatisfaction with the product. Do you have anything to offer the discussion? Some analysis as to why the story is good, why elements you liked, how the actions and presentation of the characters resonated with you? Some actual substance as to why we are wrong, like a well thought out review of the plot and story-telling? Or are you just here to bitch and moan about people expressing their opinions? Because that would seem rather pathetic. You responded you are the majority in the previous page. you were lying out of your behind and I decided to point out that even in team liquid your are of the minority position. On reddit, Bnet forums, amazon, metacritic you will be approaching tea party numbers as far as opinion of the story goes.
Fifty Shades of Grey and Twilight are among the fastest-selling paperbacks of all time. That said, anyone who knows anything about literature knows that they're poorly constructed, abounding in cliches, and are poorly written. And they're right. It's not a matter of opinion, it's a matter of expertise. Popularity has nothing to do with whether something has skillful construction. People who don't know any better will eat up virtually anything. The real gems are the stories that last because they have an appeal that isn't just flavour of the month.
If you think anyone is going to be talking about the Sc2 storyline 10 years from now (except insofar as it might relate to Sc3) you're kidding yourself.
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On March 24 2013 05:57 DaveVAH wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2013 05:54 McBengt wrote:On March 24 2013 05:44 DaveVAH wrote:On March 24 2013 05:39 McBengt wrote:
46% of the polled in this thread found the story anywhere between mediocre and terrible. Stop lying. If you don't care then just go away. So you are counting It was consistent with WoL, semi-adequate storytelling but it was not memorable or special. on your side now? How is that saying the story was terrible if it is semi-adequate? Still if you want to stretch your numbers that leaves you at the minority position even in team liquid. 54% loved the story or thought it was a step up from wings. Try reading the entire sentence. Anywhere between mediocre and terrible. It was consistent with WoL, semi-adequate storytelling but it was not memorable or special = mediocre. And again, it doesn't even matter. I could be the only person in the world not liking this story, it still doesn't mean I shouldn't express my disatisfaction with the product. Do you have anything to offer the discussion? Some analysis as to why the story is good, why elements you liked, how the actions and presentation of the characters resonated with you? Some actual substance as to why we are wrong, like a well thought out review of the plot and story-telling? Or are you just here to bitch and moan about people expressing their opinions? Because that would seem rather pathetic. You responded you are the majority in the previous page. you were lying out of your behind and I decided to point out that even in team liquid your are of the minority position. On reddit, Bnet forums, amazon, metacritic you will be approaching tea party numbers as far as opinion of the story goes.
Is english your first language? If it's not, it would explain some things.
This is what I wrote: The thing is, I, and many others judgning by this thread, disagree with you. We do in fact think the story was bad. And here we are trying to explain why and how. That is the purpose of a forum. If you have another opinion that's fine, but just because you said the story was good enough for you does not make it true for others. There are a myriad options for how to improve the storytelling without having gameplay suffer, and blizzard with some of the best designers in the world can certainly make it happen. The current plot arch and hollow story is intentional, and we think that is a bad thing.
Nowhere in there is it suggested, implied, asserted, stated, insinuated or professed that those who dislike the game are a majority. Merely that myself and several other players disagree with the assertion that the story was good. It says NOTHING about being more than half the playerbase. Again, stop lying.
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On March 24 2013 02:55 Assirra wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2013 01:58 baba44713 wrote:
In my book, the only thing that could have saved HotS was if Kerrigan killed Raynor and sided with Mengsk in the end,
What is sad though is... 90's Blizzard would actually make this happen. Yea, Kerrigan will side with the person who betrayed her and put her into a living hell and kills the person who saved her. You are out of your mind if even the 90's Blizzard would do that. It makes zero sense.
In BW she has already sided with Mengsk, and then pulled the rug under him. Because it served her purpose, and because she was way beyond petty human squabbles and notions of revenge. You know, back when she was actually a fully fleshed-out character.
Also, 90's Blizzard didn't shy away from surprising or dark endings. In the original Diablo after you defeat the final boss your character basically kills himself and becomes a new Diablo. In BW the bad guy kills almost all the good guys and wins. So yes, I'm pretty sure the old Blizzard would have a trick up their sleeve and manage to pull out an actually surprising ending, which just as well might be dark as hell.
But you guys want your love stories and your simplistic "Good guy beats the bad guy and gets revenge. Smooching ensues" plots. Well, Blizzard delivers. I'm only saddened by the fact you will never get to experience an ending that has actual impact and resonates after you finish the game.
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On March 24 2013 06:00 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2013 05:57 DaveVAH wrote:On March 24 2013 05:54 McBengt wrote:On March 24 2013 05:44 DaveVAH wrote:On March 24 2013 05:39 McBengt wrote:
46% of the polled in this thread found the story anywhere between mediocre and terrible. Stop lying. If you don't care then just go away. So you are counting It was consistent with WoL, semi-adequate storytelling but it was not memorable or special. on your side now? How is that saying the story was terrible if it is semi-adequate? Still if you want to stretch your numbers that leaves you at the minority position even in team liquid. 54% loved the story or thought it was a step up from wings. Try reading the entire sentence. Anywhere between mediocre and terrible. It was consistent with WoL, semi-adequate storytelling but it was not memorable or special = mediocre. And again, it doesn't even matter. I could be the only person in the world not liking this story, it still doesn't mean I shouldn't express my disatisfaction with the product. Do you have anything to offer the discussion? Some analysis as to why the story is good, why elements you liked, how the actions and presentation of the characters resonated with you? Some actual substance as to why we are wrong, like a well thought out review of the plot and story-telling? Or are you just here to bitch and moan about people expressing their opinions? Because that would seem rather pathetic. You responded you are the majority in the previous page. you were lying out of your behind and I decided to point out that even in team liquid your are of the minority position. On reddit, Bnet forums, amazon, metacritic you will be approaching tea party numbers as far as opinion of the story goes. Fifty Shades of Grey and Twilight are among the fastest-selling paperbacks of all time. That said, anyone who knows anything about literature knows that they're poorly constructed, abounding in cliches, and are poorly written. And they're right. It's not a matter of opinion, it's a matter of expertise. Popularity has nothing to do with whether something has skillful construction. People who don't know any better will eat up virtually anything. The real gems are the stories that last because they have an appeal that isn't just flavour of the month. If you think anyone is going to be talking about the Sc2 storyline 10 years from now (except insofar as it might relate to Sc3) you're kidding yourself.
Later installments of Twilight are panned regularly on official critic sites and get the razzi awards every year. Fifity shades of grey is appealing to the female audience as they seem to like that sort of thing which is fine. Males hardly like them in any place that I have seen or read. A story that is bad 9 times out of 10 wont be popular with the critics and the targeted general public audience. what you are implying here contradicts real world facts and is very anti social. Get some help.
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On March 24 2013 06:00 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2013 05:57 DaveVAH wrote:On March 24 2013 05:54 McBengt wrote:On March 24 2013 05:44 DaveVAH wrote:On March 24 2013 05:39 McBengt wrote:
46% of the polled in this thread found the story anywhere between mediocre and terrible. Stop lying. If you don't care then just go away. So you are counting It was consistent with WoL, semi-adequate storytelling but it was not memorable or special. on your side now? How is that saying the story was terrible if it is semi-adequate? Still if you want to stretch your numbers that leaves you at the minority position even in team liquid. 54% loved the story or thought it was a step up from wings. Try reading the entire sentence. Anywhere between mediocre and terrible. It was consistent with WoL, semi-adequate storytelling but it was not memorable or special = mediocre. And again, it doesn't even matter. I could be the only person in the world not liking this story, it still doesn't mean I shouldn't express my disatisfaction with the product. Do you have anything to offer the discussion? Some analysis as to why the story is good, why elements you liked, how the actions and presentation of the characters resonated with you? Some actual substance as to why we are wrong, like a well thought out review of the plot and story-telling? Or are you just here to bitch and moan about people expressing their opinions? Because that would seem rather pathetic. You responded you are the majority in the previous page. you were lying out of your behind and I decided to point out that even in team liquid your are of the minority position. On reddit, Bnet forums, amazon, metacritic you will be approaching tea party numbers as far as opinion of the story goes. Fifty Shades of Grey and Twilight are among the fastest-selling paperbacks of all time. That said, anyone who knows anything about literature knows that they're poorly constructed, abounding in cliches, and are poorly written. And they're right. It's not a matter of opinion, it's a matter of expertise. Popularity has nothing to do with whether something has skillful construction. People who don't know any better will eat up virtually anything. The real gems are the stories that last because they have an appeal that isn't just flavour of the month. If you think anyone is going to be talking about the Sc2 storyline 10 years from now (except insofar as it might relate to Sc3) you're kidding yourself.
The Bible is the biggest selling book every single year for the past 100 years or so. No book outsells the Bible. No book is as studied by schools, as references, or has as many fans and followers as the Bible. Because it has so many fans, it sells a LOT. Because it is ubiquitous, it is studied, and references a LOT.
Not everyone likes it, not everyone believes it, but if you are going to bring up book sales don't forget that there actually is a number one selling book that is normally ignored because all other books have no chance of beating it.
It wins in popularity, academic study, and vehemency of its fan base.
For example, I'm a big fan of Harry Potter--but I would never wage war in the name of Rowling. Whole countries do that for the Bible.
So yeah, popularity actual does translate very directly with cultural relevance if you want to talk about books, book sales, and book popularity. Wrong example, pick a different one.
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I think the storyline is cheesy but barely solid, above average these days. Exactly like most of Blizzards past storylines were. As I got exactly what I expected I can't say i'm disappointed.
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Terrible story, even worse than WoL, but on par with modern-day Blizzy. They're so keen on retconning, I wish they would retcon Starcraft / Brood War writers instead...
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It was a mixed bag for me. There were some really good moments, like The scene at the end of the Char Cycle with General Warfield and the Scene after the Moros mission dbut there were also a lot of terrible and/or nonsensical moments: Lessara or whatever her name was actually had a valid point: There was literally no legitimate reason for Kerrigan to stay on Kaldir past the first mission; The whole Zerus plotline was just strange and the ending cinematic with Kerrigan flying away was just plain odd. Stukov, while I liked the fact that he was included and thought he had some good lines, was confusing in that it was never adequately explained how he became infested (He was de-infested, I thought?) and how he escaped from Skygeirr, etc.
Overall I liked it, despite the flaws. It's no Mass Effect, but still enjoyable.
The missions were lots of fun, but too easy. On the last mission, I just spammed vile roaches, respawning ultralisks and some hydras to focus down air units and basically A-moved to victory. Since the Ultras tanked for the littler stuff and just got back up when they died, I was floating over 10k minerals and close to that much gas by the end, I basically never had to rebuild any units. The other missions basically went by without much difficulty. There were a few tough ones, but overall I thought that the AI was not aggressive enough in attacking my base. I was only playing on Hard, so that might have something to do with it, but Kerrigan alone was almost always sufficient to defend my base.
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On March 24 2013 16:13 Coppermantis wrote:
The missions were lots of fun, but too easy. On the last mission, I just spammed vile roaches, respawning ultralisks and some hydras to focus down air units and basically A-moved to victory. Since the Ultras tanked for the littler stuff and just got back up when they died, I was floating over 10k minerals and close to that much gas by the end, I basically never had to rebuild any units. The other missions basically went by without much difficulty. There were a few tough ones, but overall I thought that the AI was not aggressive enough in attacking my base. I was only playing on Hard, so that might have something to do with it, but Kerrigan alone was almost always sufficient to defend my base.
Why would you complain about it being easy when you aren't playing on the hardest setting. Anything sub-brutal is probably ment for people who never dabbled with multiplayer at all, and only play the campaign and never again. Anyone who's been playing ranked gamesat all (I assume anyone on TL has) will obviously blast through it.
I personally thought brutal in HotS was a lot harder to get through than in WoL. And this was after having 1000+ games of SC2 more under the belt than when I completed WoL. I had to replay plenty of missions in all parts of the campaign. Compare this to WoL, where I don't think I failed a single mission untill the final one.
Of all the thigns I didn't like about HotS, the dificulty seems to me to be the one thing they have gotten right 
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On March 25 2013 04:10 Vorenius wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2013 16:13 Coppermantis wrote:
The missions were lots of fun, but too easy. On the last mission, I just spammed vile roaches, respawning ultralisks and some hydras to focus down air units and basically A-moved to victory. Since the Ultras tanked for the littler stuff and just got back up when they died, I was floating over 10k minerals and close to that much gas by the end, I basically never had to rebuild any units. The other missions basically went by without much difficulty. There were a few tough ones, but overall I thought that the AI was not aggressive enough in attacking my base. I was only playing on Hard, so that might have something to do with it, but Kerrigan alone was almost always sufficient to defend my base. Why would you complain about it being easy when you aren't playing on the hardest setting. Anything sub-brutal is probably ment for people who never dabbled with multiplayer at all, and only play the campaign and never again. Anyone who's been playing ranked gamesat all (I assume anyone on TL has) will obviously blast through it. I personally thought brutal in HotS was a lot harder to get through than in WoL. And this was after having 1000+ games of SC2 more under the belt than when I completed WoL. I had to replay plenty of missions in all parts of the campaign. Compare this to WoL, where I don't think I failed a single mission untill the final one. Of all the thigns I didn't like about HotS, the dificulty seems to me to be the one thing they have gotten right
I'm comparing it to WoL on hard. Brutal is obviously harder, but for the difficulty that I play at HotS is easier.
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I had to turn my brain off the moment Kerrigan and Jim are separated by a broken bridge and she has a medivac on her side, but just goes away and then into a rampage through the whole galaxy to get him back instead of just using the damn medivac to pick him up...
I knew from this very point that there was nothing to expect regarding the script for the campaign.
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Anybody else think that of all the possible angles they could have approached the hybrid storyline, we got stuck with the lamest possible one?
I mean, back in the day, all we knew is that somebody ancient was splicing the DNA of the two races together. You could have had:
1) Xel'Naga try to take back control of their experiment and come out as a fully-realized 4th race in the campaign.
2) Duran is a semi-good guy who deluded himself into thinking that he is reviving the Xel'Naga, when in fact he is making a horrible mistake.
3) An older race (with purity of form or essence) has been chasing the xel'naga across the galaxy and wants to ruin their experiments/take advantage for themselves.
4) Duran is serving an ancient protoss cult that got separated from the Aiur protoss since before the Aeon of Strife. These "dark protoss" return from a nearby satellite galaxy to reclaim Xel'Naga territory as per the dictates of the Dae'Uhl. The protoss receive a giant population injection, allowing us to return to the large-scale battles that SC deserves.
Any one of these could have allowed for political intrigue and infighting instead of teaming up to fight the sleeping god whose power level is over 9000.
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EPT
