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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On March 09 2013 09:19 Jepsyn wrote: Shakurus was an awful map... I thought everyone HATED it You have to remember when it was new everyone loved it (like daybreak). But both those maps were in the map pool for so long that people got sick of them  . | ||
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mynameisgreat11
599 Posts
steppes br0. #1 f0 sh0 | ||
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Qikz
United Kingdom12067 Posts
On March 09 2013 10:06 Kyhol wrote: Looking at his picks for the best maps is evidence how awful the WOL map pool is. I hope to see Kespa lead the way in map making in HOTS. The issue I have with the map pool is where Kespa jumped in so late (and although they started innovating, it was too late for Wol (please be good in HoTS! :D)) we've never really had any decent experimentation. Every map that's come out in the past year or two has pretty much followed the exact same design ethos and maps that actually changed that up never got picked up by tournaments in fear that pros wouldn't play on them. Icarus is a good example of this. It's a genuinly awesome map to play on, but rather than actually trying to explore the map, pros (especially zergs, when there's pretty much nothing wrong with that map for z) have a tendancy to just 1-2 base all in every game on it. BW (yes I realise it was around for a good 8-10 years in the competitive scene) had some really great maps which were diverse and offered various different ways to play. Outsider for example is probably one of the best maps I've ever had the experience of playing on. Even Heartbreak Ridge (although not changing much) was a lovely map to play on. Sure you had your Fighting Spirits and your Destinations which stayed around in the pool for ages, but even then they were both very different and required very different playstyles to play them (compare this to Ohana and Daybreak where most games in WoL play out the same on them). Maps in SC2 seemed to have been designed (tournament maps that is) to have a "one size fits all" kind of thing where one build will work on it, no matter what the map is. Where's all the three/4 player maps? It's been map pools full of 2 player maps for ages at this point. | ||
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Kontys
Finland659 Posts
I would kick daybreak to kingdom come, however balanced and archtype-ish it has become: Games played on it involve no creative tactics, because the map allows for none. It has successfully done nothing "bad", but it hasn't added anything "good" to the game either... I feel the middle area should be reworked to allow for army positioning, that is not completely dictated. | ||
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bananaman533
86 Posts
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thezanursic
5504 Posts
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Bashion
Cook Islands2612 Posts
The only thing that map was good for was to deliver Sc vs Nestea epic game. besides that, it was a terrible, terrible map for Protoss. Mutas were too strong and was a 111 terran free win. | ||
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Arceus
Vietnam8333 Posts
It sucks that 3-player map played almost no role in WoL except for MMA's CC and a few GSL maps Oh and Bel'Shir Beach has no love? | ||
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shizaep
Canada2920 Posts
Though this is a pretty nostalgic list for me, nice writeup. | ||
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ZenithM
France15952 Posts
I abhor maps with 3 easy bases by default, like fast 3 bases is the most natural thing to do, no pun intended. Surprised you placed Crossfire in the top maps. The map was very bad for Protoss, as Dual Sight was, but it did bring us dat sC vs Nestea series. | ||
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iAmJeffReY
United States4262 Posts
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Zektgn
United States71 Posts
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Advantageous
China1350 Posts
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HeyImFinn
United States250 Posts
On March 09 2013 10:29 Arceus wrote: Oh and Bel'Shir Beach has no love? Winter or Regular? I personally like both. | ||
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Zeon0
Austria2995 Posts
and yes, CK is the best WoL map. Superouman is the man! | ||
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Qikz
United Kingdom12067 Posts
On March 09 2013 10:25 thezanursic wrote: Only one style of map works in WOL I'd say maps aren't nearly as important as they were in bw. There were so many crazy maps in bw that worked or at least kind of worked (Bio TvT on 815 hell yeah!). I really disagree with your point about only one style of map works in WoL. Arkanoid has shown near the end that a completely different style can actually work and be entertaining to play/watch, but until recently nobody has really bothered experementing too much (in the tournaments that is). | ||
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ColtraneL
France248 Posts
I mean, Belshir beach/winter, Testbug, Entombed Valley, Xel'Naga Fortress or Crevasse were all maps that we've seen a lot, all of those one with pretty unique features. The one I used to love that isn't mentioned at all is still Terminus. Maybe it wasn't perfectly balanced, and it had a thousand versions, but it was actually pretty great to watch (I remember particularly Mvp games on this map that were insane, and I will never forget Thorzain first three cc against Fruitdealer during TSL3). Anyway, I think that more than a subjective post about the map people loved, we should have made a description of all the maps that defined WOL, from Shattered Temple insanely favored terran map to Crossfire Zerg heaven. Despite everything we can criticize on Xel'Naga Caverns, Tal'Darim Altar, Metalopolis or Shakuras Plateau, a lot of my favorite games were played on those maps. | ||
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garlicface
Canada4196 Posts
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Fatam
1986 Posts
I like the thread. I think it's important as we move forward with SC2 (esp. with the stagnancy of the map pools) that people realize that maps affect the game so, so much, and need to be paid more attention. Even if they have a slightly smaller effect than they did in BW, I still think it's pretty huge. Play 10 games on Xel'Naga Caverns, then play 10 on something newer and turtley like Akilon Flats. You're not playing the same game anymore. @ the rest of the list, I think a few of the proleague maps should definitely be mentioned. You can't really use the argument that they came too late in the lifespan of WOL, since Icarus is included. Having a "most extreme" list without Arkanoid or Bifrost seems a little wrong to me. I would kind of like to see a "top 10 influential maps" list added to the OP. Influence on Starcraft 2's metagame, on how maps are made, etc. regardless of if the map is good or balanced. You sort of touched on that in Daybreak's description, but an actual full list of it would be cool. Just an example - some of the huge maps (you could say Atlantis Spaceship, or you could take your pick really) taught us that we do need a limit to how big the maps get, or Terran will just fall flat on its face. Crossfire taught us that how we think a map will play doesn't always translate to reality. Everyone thought it would be PvZ favored and it was the exact opposite. Etc. etc. etc. | ||
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IMLyte
Canada714 Posts
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