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On March 18 2013 03:05 butterstulle wrote:
oracle - spawn with 0 energy or energy has to be upgraded
Right because if the oracle has no energy its not like it can pick up units or anything to ferry them or save them from ling baneling or anything that doesn't hit air /facepalm
I'm not biased against terran but I think the speed boost should require energy or an upgrade, its just silly that they have the fastest moving(on a 12 second cool-down since the boost lasts 8 seconds and begins right when the ability activates), has healing, and is a dropship.....call me biased if you want, but what other non "spellcaster" unit has as much utility as a medivac?
Overlords can poop creep...whoopie do, warp prisms can act like pylons so we can warp in garbage gateway units hooray! Just seems silly to give this unit all that right out of the starport without any upgrade or energy cost.
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The major issue in this tourney imo is the instability of bnet no effin LAN at MLG Dallas.
How many games were dropped already??
Parting seemed mighty pissed in the last game of the set vs Flash.
Or is it only to showcase the new feature that lets you start the game from where it dropped?
we will not reach the levels of epic failure that MLG Colombus had a couple years back but still its very annoying.
For the medevacs, at some point zergs will spend some money on static defenses and the way MC has dealt with MVP shows that phoenixes can deny fast drops...
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On March 18 2013 03:23 dacimvrl wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2013 03:17 DrPhilOfdOOm wrote:On March 18 2013 03:12 dacimvrl wrote:On March 18 2013 03:08 aksfjh wrote:On March 18 2013 03:03 Holdenintherye wrote:
I dont think Blizzard even saw this coming. IIRC they put in the medivac speedboost because if terran lost a fight, they would end up losing all their medivacs, so the speedboost was meant to help with unit retention. But now it's being used for hyper-aggressive multi-pronged attacks that weren't possible before.
It just makes the games sooo boring to watch "Man, all this action is so boring to watch!" I know right, this is so much more boring than the last 2 GSL code S seasons of WoL. Zzzzz Wow, I think your worthy of some sort of medal for beeing the most terran biased poster on TL. You just can't accept the fact that some aspects of the terran race might be abit to powerful at its current state. Even the pros agree that T is abit silly atm. Who are you to argue? You are probably silver-diamond, go to bed... jeeez well, like I and many others have been saying, the game hasn't even been out for a week, and people are already crying imba? Which pros besides parting cried imba? Suppy acknowledge there's no imba, but Zerg haven't figured out the timings in yesterday's post-game interview. Not to mention I did acknowledge that widow mines may require a blast radius nerf earlier, so I am not sure who's more biased.
There has been a beta, people knew what was potentially imba even before reliease. That was why so many hoped for a patch right as the game launched.
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On March 18 2013 03:20 dacimvrl wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2013 03:02 ShamW0W wrote:On March 18 2013 02:24 dacimvrl wrote:On March 18 2013 02:19 ShamW0W wrote:On March 18 2013 01:44 dacimvrl wrote:On March 18 2013 01:26 ShamW0W wrote:On March 18 2013 01:00 dacimvrl wrote:On March 18 2013 00:58 MilesTeg wrote:On March 18 2013 00:56 dacimvrl wrote:On March 18 2013 00:53 MilesTeg wrote:
[quote]
The fact that it's there, and the strength of widow mines defensively, means Zergs just don't attack. I could be wrong but I haven't seen many roach/baneling attacks. The reason is that it would be a completely stupid build.
Add the possibility of a Zerg attack killing you and suddenly the matchup doesn't look the same. Terran can't get such a good economy, and can't just swarm you with infantry. I think you are wrong. sources: MLG yesterday. A lot of zerg pros went muta-bling with early bust too and roach follow ups. Ret did it pretty well, notably. You'll have to be a bit more specific with your source your holiness. lol, specific? watch the ZvTs yesterday. Leenock and ret both went early lings+baneling bust in their ZvTs. Tanks or mines didn't stop zerg from early harass at all. And like the other guy mentioned, most terrans in tvz didn't even put a tech lab on their factories til mid/late game. Not to mention Innovation only did it to research the burrow speed upgrade for widow mines. Widow mines were much much more prominent in TvZ, thus I don't understand the tank OP QQ. Let me put it this way, in early game, it does not matter at all as ppl were going widow mines instead of tanks anyway, due to cost, production speed, and effectiveness. Nerfing tank won't do jack in TvZ, because you either need a second factory or you have to cut widow mines in favor of tanks - which nobody does anyway. edit: vods are up at MLG.tv btw Sure, Leenock and Ret tried aggression. They went 0-6 against Terran. Not sure what your point is here. Not just any Terran, fyi. Don't pretend as though Ret stood a chance vs God. I'm not the one attempting to make a point, that was you. I was simply pointing out that the example you used to prove your point (yesterday's ZvTs) all resulted in Zerg losses. So, why would I watch the ZvTs yesterday to understand how effective these busts are? Feels like troll, I'll leave it alone. lol, my point is that whatever you think you pointed out was pointless and nerfing tanks wouldn't have changed a thing as they weren't used..instead, Widow Mines were. And I acknowledged that a potential widow mine nerf is definitely debatable, but the game hasn't even been out for a week, and you already cry imba.... Flash 3:0s Ret, and you cry imba? seriously? Pretty obvious you are the troll here.. /inb4 you should own Flash in TvZ, or Terran is imba.. You clearly lack reading comprehension. Read my previous posts then try again. On the topic at hand, I'd still prefer that, if Blizzard sees an issue, they buff the other races rather than nerf the one that's seen as a problem. Let's add more strategy, not remove others. 1. you clearly lack logic.. worse players losing to obviously better players, is not an evidence of imba. And I am not sure if you watched game 2 of Last vs Life, no tanks again, but Life wrecked Last with ling. bling. muta. Imba? hardly. 2. Before you jumped into the conversation, I was making a point about MilesTeg suggesting a Tank nerf to address TvZ. My point being, tanks were not even used in TvZs yesterday or today, so a tank nerf is obviously not warranted. Inherently, It's like saying nerf BattleCruisers, which were not even used in the game at all. Nerf it sure, but it would not have changed a thing. On the other hand, like I mentioned earlier, if the discussion is about nerfing widow mines, sure, it is very debatable.
Find one post where I cried imba or said anything about tanks. Once again, reading comprehension...
The discussion WAS you saying Zerg aggression was possible by using yesterdays ZvTs as evidence to support that (Flash vs. Ret, Leenock vs. Innovation) where Zergs went 0-6. In no way did I suggest the Zergs were better players, however you seemed to think those were good examples to support your point that Zergs should use aggressive play.
To add something on topic: Life's splits against these Widow Mines is pretty damn awesome to watch, has to do it blindly but seems to always know where they'll be.
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Vatican City State582 Posts
On March 18 2013 03:30 DrPhilOfdOOm wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2013 03:23 dacimvrl wrote:On March 18 2013 03:17 DrPhilOfdOOm wrote:On March 18 2013 03:12 dacimvrl wrote:On March 18 2013 03:08 aksfjh wrote:On March 18 2013 03:03 Holdenintherye wrote:
I dont think Blizzard even saw this coming. IIRC they put in the medivac speedboost because if terran lost a fight, they would end up losing all their medivacs, so the speedboost was meant to help with unit retention. But now it's being used for hyper-aggressive multi-pronged attacks that weren't possible before.
It just makes the games sooo boring to watch "Man, all this action is so boring to watch!" I know right, this is so much more boring than the last 2 GSL code S seasons of WoL. Zzzzz Wow, I think your worthy of some sort of medal for beeing the most terran biased poster on TL. You just can't accept the fact that some aspects of the terran race might be abit to powerful at its current state. Even the pros agree that T is abit silly atm. Who are you to argue? You are probably silver-diamond, go to bed... jeeez well, like I and many others have been saying, the game hasn't even been out for a week, and people are already crying imba? Which pros besides parting cried imba? Suppy acknowledge there's no imba, but Zerg haven't figured out the timings in yesterday's post-game interview. Not to mention I did acknowledge that widow mines may require a blast radius nerf earlier, so I am not sure who's more biased. There has been a beta, people knew what was potentially imba even before reliease. That was why so many hoped for a patch right as the game launched.
so, that still doesn't answer my counter-argument. Which pros besides parting said imba? Like I said, Suppy, a zerg pro, said there was no imba, it was just that zerg timings haven't been figured out to adapt to the new units. So, is Suppy wrong?
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Vatican City State582 Posts
On March 18 2013 03:31 ShamW0W wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2013 03:20 dacimvrl wrote:On March 18 2013 03:02 ShamW0W wrote:On March 18 2013 02:24 dacimvrl wrote:On March 18 2013 02:19 ShamW0W wrote:On March 18 2013 01:44 dacimvrl wrote:On March 18 2013 01:26 ShamW0W wrote:On March 18 2013 01:00 dacimvrl wrote:On March 18 2013 00:58 MilesTeg wrote:On March 18 2013 00:56 dacimvrl wrote:
[quote]
I think you are wrong. sources: MLG yesterday. A lot of zerg pros went muta-bling with early bust too and roach follow ups. Ret did it pretty well, notably. You'll have to be a bit more specific with your source your holiness. lol, specific? watch the ZvTs yesterday. Leenock and ret both went early lings+baneling bust in their ZvTs. Tanks or mines didn't stop zerg from early harass at all. And like the other guy mentioned, most terrans in tvz didn't even put a tech lab on their factories til mid/late game. Not to mention Innovation only did it to research the burrow speed upgrade for widow mines. Widow mines were much much more prominent in TvZ, thus I don't understand the tank OP QQ. Let me put it this way, in early game, it does not matter at all as ppl were going widow mines instead of tanks anyway, due to cost, production speed, and effectiveness. Nerfing tank won't do jack in TvZ, because you either need a second factory or you have to cut widow mines in favor of tanks - which nobody does anyway. edit: vods are up at MLG.tv btw Sure, Leenock and Ret tried aggression. They went 0-6 against Terran. Not sure what your point is here. Not just any Terran, fyi. Don't pretend as though Ret stood a chance vs God. I'm not the one attempting to make a point, that was you. I was simply pointing out that the example you used to prove your point (yesterday's ZvTs) all resulted in Zerg losses. So, why would I watch the ZvTs yesterday to understand how effective these busts are? Feels like troll, I'll leave it alone. lol, my point is that whatever you think you pointed out was pointless and nerfing tanks wouldn't have changed a thing as they weren't used..instead, Widow Mines were. And I acknowledged that a potential widow mine nerf is definitely debatable, but the game hasn't even been out for a week, and you already cry imba.... Flash 3:0s Ret, and you cry imba? seriously? Pretty obvious you are the troll here.. /inb4 you should own Flash in TvZ, or Terran is imba.. You clearly lack reading comprehension. Read my previous posts then try again. On the topic at hand, I'd still prefer that, if Blizzard sees an issue, they buff the other races rather than nerf the one that's seen as a problem. Let's add more strategy, not remove others. 1. you clearly lack logic.. worse players losing to obviously better players, is not an evidence of imba. And I am not sure if you watched game 2 of Last vs Life, no tanks again, but Life wrecked Last with ling. bling. muta. Imba? hardly. 2. Before you jumped into the conversation, I was making a point about MilesTeg suggesting a Tank nerf to address TvZ. My point being, tanks were not even used in TvZs yesterday or today, so a tank nerf is obviously not warranted. Inherently, It's like saying nerf BattleCruisers, which were not even used in the game at all. Nerf it sure, but it would not have changed a thing. On the other hand, like I mentioned earlier, if the discussion is about nerfing widow mines, sure, it is very debatable. Find one post where I cried imba or said anything about tanks. Once again, reading comprehension... The discussion WAS you saying Zerg aggression was possible by using yesterdays ZvTs as evidence to support that (Flash vs. Ret, Leenock vs. Innovation) where Zergs went 0-6. In no way did I suggest the Zergs were better players, however you seemed to think those were good examples to support your point that Zergs should use aggressive play. To add something on topic: Life's splits against these Widow Mines is pretty damn awesome to watch, has to do it blindly but seems to always know where they'll be.
.......reading comprehension.. Like I mentioned in the previous post, I was addressing MilesTeg.. And yes, Zerg aggression was possible, and them losing, like you suggested, doesn't mean it didn't work.... Not to mention I never said Zergs SHOULD* use aggressive play, like you just accused. I never said that at all. I merely said it was still feasible, pros have been using it, and nerfing tanks wouldn't have solved a thing since nobody even used a tank opening. reading comprehension? Good try. Now, addressing your flawed logic.. You could have successful early harass and still lose, as evident in Rain vs Innovation game 3.
Further, you saying Zerg went 0-6 meant nothing, because like I said, Flash vs Ret. Who in their right mind would say Ret would win? Yes, you never suggested the Zergs were better players, and I never said you suggested the Zergs were better players, reading comprehension? BUT you hinted it was not feasible because zerg lost all those games, why else would you suggest that then? I suggesting Flash is easily the better player and that ret losing to Flash is in no way an evidence or support of your argument shut down your argument completely.
To sum it up, successful early aggression does not mean you auto-win, unsuccessful early harass doesn't mean you can't win, and that's StarCraft 2 for you.
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Well.some posts ago I wrote about the medivacs almost imba,but after watching Bomber-MC and Life-Last I changed my opinion. There is a way to control this and players like MC have already figured it out. Stargate opening Oracle+Phoenix is the way to deny Ts widow mines drops and Mid game Medivacs aggressions. Life is focusing hard on lings to be send in the battlefield sacrificing to spot the mines and keep it on the bling-muta into ultras style to counter the MMM soo mobile stuff.I suppose players like Parting and Rain havent had the time to practice enough because of their latest WoL matches.
Still the game of T POV is boring to play as it seems BIO is the way to play all the Terran MUs...So sad.I expect the Widow Mine splash damage nerf,so tanks once again will be usefull.
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On March 18 2013 03:33 dacimvrl wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2013 03:30 DrPhilOfdOOm wrote:On March 18 2013 03:23 dacimvrl wrote:On March 18 2013 03:17 DrPhilOfdOOm wrote:On March 18 2013 03:12 dacimvrl wrote:On March 18 2013 03:08 aksfjh wrote:On March 18 2013 03:03 Holdenintherye wrote:
I dont think Blizzard even saw this coming. IIRC they put in the medivac speedboost because if terran lost a fight, they would end up losing all their medivacs, so the speedboost was meant to help with unit retention. But now it's being used for hyper-aggressive multi-pronged attacks that weren't possible before.
It just makes the games sooo boring to watch "Man, all this action is so boring to watch!" I know right, this is so much more boring than the last 2 GSL code S seasons of WoL. Zzzzz Wow, I think your worthy of some sort of medal for beeing the most terran biased poster on TL. You just can't accept the fact that some aspects of the terran race might be abit to powerful at its current state. Even the pros agree that T is abit silly atm. Who are you to argue? You are probably silver-diamond, go to bed... jeeez well, like I and many others have been saying, the game hasn't even been out for a week, and people are already crying imba? Which pros besides parting cried imba? Suppy acknowledge there's no imba, but Zerg haven't figured out the timings in yesterday's post-game interview. Not to mention I did acknowledge that widow mines may require a blast radius nerf earlier, so I am not sure who's more biased. There has been a beta, people knew what was potentially imba even before reliease. That was why so many hoped for a patch right as the game launched. so, that still doesn't answer my counter-argument. Which pros besides parting said imba? Like I said, Suppy, a zerg pro, said there was no imba, it was just that zerg timings haven't been figured out to adapt to the new units. So, is Suppy wrong?
Well, MC for one, saying PvT is fine but ZvT is terran favored. http://www.gamespot.com/starcraft-ii-heart-of-the-swarm/videos/mc-thinks-he-can-be-champion-after-win-against-mvp-mlg-dallas-6405465/
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Vatican City State582 Posts
On March 18 2013 03:42 DrPhilOfdOOm wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2013 03:33 dacimvrl wrote:On March 18 2013 03:30 DrPhilOfdOOm wrote:On March 18 2013 03:23 dacimvrl wrote:On March 18 2013 03:17 DrPhilOfdOOm wrote:On March 18 2013 03:12 dacimvrl wrote:On March 18 2013 03:08 aksfjh wrote:On March 18 2013 03:03 Holdenintherye wrote:
I dont think Blizzard even saw this coming. IIRC they put in the medivac speedboost because if terran lost a fight, they would end up losing all their medivacs, so the speedboost was meant to help with unit retention. But now it's being used for hyper-aggressive multi-pronged attacks that weren't possible before.
It just makes the games sooo boring to watch "Man, all this action is so boring to watch!" I know right, this is so much more boring than the last 2 GSL code S seasons of WoL. Zzzzz Wow, I think your worthy of some sort of medal for beeing the most terran biased poster on TL. You just can't accept the fact that some aspects of the terran race might be abit to powerful at its current state. Even the pros agree that T is abit silly atm. Who are you to argue? You are probably silver-diamond, go to bed... jeeez well, like I and many others have been saying, the game hasn't even been out for a week, and people are already crying imba? Which pros besides parting cried imba? Suppy acknowledge there's no imba, but Zerg haven't figured out the timings in yesterday's post-game interview. Not to mention I did acknowledge that widow mines may require a blast radius nerf earlier, so I am not sure who's more biased. There has been a beta, people knew what was potentially imba even before reliease. That was why so many hoped for a patch right as the game launched. so, that still doesn't answer my counter-argument. Which pros besides parting said imba? Like I said, Suppy, a zerg pro, said there was no imba, it was just that zerg timings haven't been figured out to adapt to the new units. So, is Suppy wrong? Well, MC for one, saying PvT is fine but ZvT is terran favored. http://www.gamespot.com/starcraft-ii-heart-of-the-swarm/videos/mc-thinks-he-can-be-champion-after-win-against-mvp-mlg-dallas-6405465/
So MC says P is balanced all around, but ZvT is T favored, and Stephano said Protoss was OP in ZvP, Stephano said he knows exactly what's coming, but he could not do anything about it.. so, is MC right that voidray is fine or is Stephano right saying protoss is OP? And is Suppy, the zerg pro wrong to say that there's no imba in ZvT, but people haven't figured out the timings? So is MC right, or is Stephano or Suppy right?
what I think - MC obviously says P is perfectly fine, hell, he plays protoss lol
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On March 18 2013 03:50 dacimvrl wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2013 03:42 DrPhilOfdOOm wrote:On March 18 2013 03:33 dacimvrl wrote:On March 18 2013 03:30 DrPhilOfdOOm wrote:On March 18 2013 03:23 dacimvrl wrote:On March 18 2013 03:17 DrPhilOfdOOm wrote:On March 18 2013 03:12 dacimvrl wrote:On March 18 2013 03:08 aksfjh wrote:On March 18 2013 03:03 Holdenintherye wrote:
I dont think Blizzard even saw this coming. IIRC they put in the medivac speedboost because if terran lost a fight, they would end up losing all their medivacs, so the speedboost was meant to help with unit retention. But now it's being used for hyper-aggressive multi-pronged attacks that weren't possible before.
It just makes the games sooo boring to watch "Man, all this action is so boring to watch!" I know right, this is so much more boring than the last 2 GSL code S seasons of WoL. Zzzzz Wow, I think your worthy of some sort of medal for beeing the most terran biased poster on TL. You just can't accept the fact that some aspects of the terran race might be abit to powerful at its current state. Even the pros agree that T is abit silly atm. Who are you to argue? You are probably silver-diamond, go to bed... jeeez well, like I and many others have been saying, the game hasn't even been out for a week, and people are already crying imba? Which pros besides parting cried imba? Suppy acknowledge there's no imba, but Zerg haven't figured out the timings in yesterday's post-game interview. Not to mention I did acknowledge that widow mines may require a blast radius nerf earlier, so I am not sure who's more biased. There has been a beta, people knew what was potentially imba even before reliease. That was why so many hoped for a patch right as the game launched. so, that still doesn't answer my counter-argument. Which pros besides parting said imba? Like I said, Suppy, a zerg pro, said there was no imba, it was just that zerg timings haven't been figured out to adapt to the new units. So, is Suppy wrong? Well, MC for one, saying PvT is fine but ZvT is terran favored. http://www.gamespot.com/starcraft-ii-heart-of-the-swarm/videos/mc-thinks-he-can-be-champion-after-win-against-mvp-mlg-dallas-6405465/ So MC says P is balanced all around, but ZvT is T favored, and Stephano said Protoss was OP in ZvP, Stephano said he knows exactly what's coming, but he could not do anything about it.. so, is MC right that voidray is fine or is Stephano right saying protoss is OP? And is Suppy, the zerg pro wrong to say that there's no imba in ZvT, but people haven't figured out the timings? So is MC right, or is Stephano or Suppy right? what I think - MC obviously says P is perfectly fine, hell, he plays protoss lol
Hell, you play Terran, thus you defend the race. You will feel stupied when you nerf will come. just saying.
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Vatican City State582 Posts
On March 18 2013 03:54 DrPhilOfdOOm wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2013 03:50 dacimvrl wrote:On March 18 2013 03:42 DrPhilOfdOOm wrote:On March 18 2013 03:33 dacimvrl wrote:On March 18 2013 03:30 DrPhilOfdOOm wrote:On March 18 2013 03:23 dacimvrl wrote:On March 18 2013 03:17 DrPhilOfdOOm wrote:On March 18 2013 03:12 dacimvrl wrote:On March 18 2013 03:08 aksfjh wrote:On March 18 2013 03:03 Holdenintherye wrote:
I dont think Blizzard even saw this coming. IIRC they put in the medivac speedboost because if terran lost a fight, they would end up losing all their medivacs, so the speedboost was meant to help with unit retention. But now it's being used for hyper-aggressive multi-pronged attacks that weren't possible before.
It just makes the games sooo boring to watch "Man, all this action is so boring to watch!" I know right, this is so much more boring than the last 2 GSL code S seasons of WoL. Zzzzz Wow, I think your worthy of some sort of medal for beeing the most terran biased poster on TL. You just can't accept the fact that some aspects of the terran race might be abit to powerful at its current state. Even the pros agree that T is abit silly atm. Who are you to argue? You are probably silver-diamond, go to bed... jeeez well, like I and many others have been saying, the game hasn't even been out for a week, and people are already crying imba? Which pros besides parting cried imba? Suppy acknowledge there's no imba, but Zerg haven't figured out the timings in yesterday's post-game interview. Not to mention I did acknowledge that widow mines may require a blast radius nerf earlier, so I am not sure who's more biased. There has been a beta, people knew what was potentially imba even before reliease. That was why so many hoped for a patch right as the game launched. so, that still doesn't answer my counter-argument. Which pros besides parting said imba? Like I said, Suppy, a zerg pro, said there was no imba, it was just that zerg timings haven't been figured out to adapt to the new units. So, is Suppy wrong? Well, MC for one, saying PvT is fine but ZvT is terran favored. http://www.gamespot.com/starcraft-ii-heart-of-the-swarm/videos/mc-thinks-he-can-be-champion-after-win-against-mvp-mlg-dallas-6405465/ So MC says P is balanced all around, but ZvT is T favored, and Stephano said Protoss was OP in ZvP, Stephano said he knows exactly what's coming, but he could not do anything about it.. so, is MC right that voidray is fine or is Stephano right saying protoss is OP? And is Suppy, the zerg pro wrong to say that there's no imba in ZvT, but people haven't figured out the timings? So is MC right, or is Stephano or Suppy right? what I think - MC obviously says P is perfectly fine, hell, he plays protoss lol Hell, you play Terran, thus you defend the race. You will feel stupied when you nerf will come. just saying.
Nice question dodging. So who's right? MC saying Protoss is perfectly balanced, Parting saying TvP is imba, Stephano saying ZvP is imba, or Suppy saying TvZ is fine?
How about try and hold your QQs and let the meta develop for a little. Frankly, I don't think that's too much to ask. ....and I am pretty sure you should be the one feeling stupid, for you spelled stupid wrong.....
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On March 18 2013 02:59 Dekoth wrote:
Honestly the argument that Terran is Hots is Balanced or imbalanced at this point is pretty dumb. Frankly it is impossible for anyone who honestly analyzes the games to really determine at this stage. I'll admit that the combination of widow mines and speed medivacs especially against zergs feels like a problem. However On the other side I am watching every zerg try the same tactics with little variation that has been shut down cold each time. So I certainly am not going to say it is imbalanced when there are a number of other viable strategies that just aren't getting leveraged. It however is certainly something that needs to be watched very close in the coming months.
It's not just that, the way the races were designed Terran is always going to have an advantage in the early to mid game due to the fact that Blizzard designed them to be an aggressive multi prong attacking race. Terran has alot of options early to mid game, but tapers off late game unless you can really control your units well. Zerg still holds a distinct advantage late game with Ultra/Vipers/Corrupters/Blords/Infestors, yet no one is bitching about getting slowly picked off into oblivion by Vipers, yet you have all these Zerg players here bitching that they for once cannot take blind thirds and build 6 lings / 5 queens to be safe.
The game is DIFFERENT now. Of course Zerg is going to 'appear' weaker. That's because alot of the timings and unit compositions are new, and Terran has the most stable unit composition out of all three races. They only added widow mines and medivac speed bosts, that's it. So yes they are going to look the best right now because they were affected least by the changes from HotS. Z and P have significant changes, with Z getting the most dynamic changes due to Infestor changes, Hydra changes, Ultra changes, etc. that all significantly overhaul the way Z is played in HotS.
In 3-5 months down the road if Terran is still completely dominating then yes, changes should be made. However the knee jerk reactions of WoL completely ruined the game, and if you bitch hard enough Blizzard will be stupid enough to listen to you. Just look at some of the nonsense that occured in WoL, everything ranging from knee jerk buffs/nerfs to things like Ghosts, Infestors, Bunkers, Warpgate timings, Voidrays, etc. etc.
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On March 18 2013 03:26 ShamW0W wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2013 03:04 Bagi wrote:On March 18 2013 02:54 Da.Frozzy wrote:
i really think widow mine shouldnt hit air.
would buff some harras options vs terra and wont hurt terra vs air units, because of marines and the new thor. there are tons of anti air and let us be fair, oracle and muta harras vs zerg is really something that you defend sooo easy.
for the rest lets see how the balance turns out in some weeks, especially zergs need to elarn the new timings they are hurt by this addon, because its the reactive race. Widow mines not hitting air would make mech TvZ completely obsolete. Thors alone do not cut it against the improved mutalisk. I don't know why I keep reading people suggesting nerfs to tanks, mines and hellbats. We see so little mech to begin with, how about you just nerf the damn medivac since everyone is going bio because of it. In a mech ball, why would Thor perform any worse in HOTS than WoL? The muta buffs were acceleration and regeneration out of combat.
Why do you assume insane harassing buffs do not matter against the slowest army in the game?
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Vatican City State582 Posts
On March 18 2013 03:26 ShamW0W wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2013 03:04 Bagi wrote:On March 18 2013 02:54 Da.Frozzy wrote:
i really think widow mine shouldnt hit air.
would buff some harras options vs terra and wont hurt terra vs air units, because of marines and the new thor. there are tons of anti air and let us be fair, oracle and muta harras vs zerg is really something that you defend sooo easy.
for the rest lets see how the balance turns out in some weeks, especially zergs need to elarn the new timings they are hurt by this addon, because its the reactive race. Widow mines not hitting air would make mech TvZ completely obsolete. Thors alone do not cut it against the improved mutalisk. I don't know why I keep reading people suggesting nerfs to tanks, mines and hellbats. We see so little mech to begin with, how about you just nerf the damn medivac since everyone is going bio because of it. In a mech ball, why would Thor perform any worse in HOTS than WoL? The muta buffs were acceleration and regeneration out of combat.
Wrong, mutas had a speed buff to 4.0, regen got tripled, and acceleration did not change.... Faster speed and 3x regen = you can do a lot more hit and runs and take less damage, while 3x regen means mutas recover quicker and can do more hit and runs. And that directly means Thors perform worse in HotS vs mutas. Reading comprehension? Logic? Nice try..
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On March 18 2013 04:01 Bagi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2013 03:26 ShamW0W wrote:On March 18 2013 03:04 Bagi wrote:On March 18 2013 02:54 Da.Frozzy wrote:
i really think widow mine shouldnt hit air.
would buff some harras options vs terra and wont hurt terra vs air units, because of marines and the new thor. there are tons of anti air and let us be fair, oracle and muta harras vs zerg is really something that you defend sooo easy.
for the rest lets see how the balance turns out in some weeks, especially zergs need to elarn the new timings they are hurt by this addon, because its the reactive race. Widow mines not hitting air would make mech TvZ completely obsolete. Thors alone do not cut it against the improved mutalisk. I don't know why I keep reading people suggesting nerfs to tanks, mines and hellbats. We see so little mech to begin with, how about you just nerf the damn medivac since everyone is going bio because of it. In a mech ball, why would Thor perform any worse in HOTS than WoL? The muta buffs were acceleration and regeneration out of combat. Why do you assume insane harassing buffs do not matter against the slowest army in the game?
I never said the ability to harass didn't matter, I said, in a straight up engagement, Mutas vs. Thors should be the same as in WoL. You claimed Thors alone don't cut it against Mutalisks, which may be true, but that should be no different than WoL.
If Widow Mines didn't attack air you could just make extra turrets to make up for the immobility of your army against Mutalisks for example. While I don't know if nerfing Widow Mines vs air is the right call, to say that removing Widow Mine's ability to attack air would make mech obsolete seems incorrect.
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On March 18 2013 04:41 ShamW0W wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2013 04:01 Bagi wrote:On March 18 2013 03:26 ShamW0W wrote:On March 18 2013 03:04 Bagi wrote:On March 18 2013 02:54 Da.Frozzy wrote:
i really think widow mine shouldnt hit air.
would buff some harras options vs terra and wont hurt terra vs air units, because of marines and the new thor. there are tons of anti air and let us be fair, oracle and muta harras vs zerg is really something that you defend sooo easy.
for the rest lets see how the balance turns out in some weeks, especially zergs need to elarn the new timings they are hurt by this addon, because its the reactive race. Widow mines not hitting air would make mech TvZ completely obsolete. Thors alone do not cut it against the improved mutalisk. I don't know why I keep reading people suggesting nerfs to tanks, mines and hellbats. We see so little mech to begin with, how about you just nerf the damn medivac since everyone is going bio because of it. In a mech ball, why would Thor perform any worse in HOTS than WoL? The muta buffs were acceleration and regeneration out of combat. Why do you assume insane harassing buffs do not matter against the slowest army in the game? I never said the ability to harass didn't matter, I said, in a straight up engagement, Mutas vs. Thors should be the same as in WoL. You claimed Thors alone don't cut it against Mutalisks, which may be true, but that should be no different than WoL. If Widow Mines didn't attack air you could just make extra turrets to make up for the immobility of your army against Mutalisks for example. While I don't know if nerfing Widow Mines vs air is the right call, to say that removing Widow Mine's ability to attack air would make mech obsolete seems incorrect.
Thors alone dont cut it against the new muta harass. There. Did I really need to spell it out for you?
The new mutas shit on turrets and can run away from thors all day long. Any single thor volleys taken (which in WOL were a big deal) are quickly healed. The muta buffs were a DIRECT response to the mine, how can you not understand that removing the mine from that equation will be problematic?
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On March 18 2013 04:41 ShamW0W wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2013 04:01 Bagi wrote:On March 18 2013 03:26 ShamW0W wrote:On March 18 2013 03:04 Bagi wrote:On March 18 2013 02:54 Da.Frozzy wrote:
i really think widow mine shouldnt hit air.
would buff some harras options vs terra and wont hurt terra vs air units, because of marines and the new thor. there are tons of anti air and let us be fair, oracle and muta harras vs zerg is really something that you defend sooo easy.
for the rest lets see how the balance turns out in some weeks, especially zergs need to elarn the new timings they are hurt by this addon, because its the reactive race. Widow mines not hitting air would make mech TvZ completely obsolete. Thors alone do not cut it against the improved mutalisk. I don't know why I keep reading people suggesting nerfs to tanks, mines and hellbats. We see so little mech to begin with, how about you just nerf the damn medivac since everyone is going bio because of it. In a mech ball, why would Thor perform any worse in HOTS than WoL? The muta buffs were acceleration and regeneration out of combat. Why do you assume insane harassing buffs do not matter against the slowest army in the game? I never said the ability to harass didn't matter, I said, in a straight up engagement, Mutas vs. Thors should be the same as in WoL. You claimed Thors alone don't cut it against Mutalisks, which may be true, but that should be no different than WoL. If Widow Mines didn't attack air you could just make extra turrets to make up for the immobility of your army against Mutalisks for example. While I don't know if nerfing Widow Mines vs air is the right call, to say that removing Widow Mine's ability to attack air would make mech obsolete seems incorrect.
nerfing widow mine against air would make toss early stargate play super op.
and not only that.
hots is new
"the other protoss and zerg play wings of liberty and thats why they lose, i play hots and thats why i win" -MC
thats what mc said.
players dont know how to play hots yet and thats why they have problems to deal with widow mines.
give it some time. people will find counter builds and counter strategies.
i agree the medivac speedboost is a bit strong now.
but other than that, terran is fine.
and everyone who says something else clearly doesnt understand the game.
u have to look at the bigger picture my son.
and some people here dont talk about opinions, they talk about facts!
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On March 18 2013 04:46 Bagi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2013 04:41 ShamW0W wrote:On March 18 2013 04:01 Bagi wrote:On March 18 2013 03:26 ShamW0W wrote:On March 18 2013 03:04 Bagi wrote:On March 18 2013 02:54 Da.Frozzy wrote:
i really think widow mine shouldnt hit air.
would buff some harras options vs terra and wont hurt terra vs air units, because of marines and the new thor. there are tons of anti air and let us be fair, oracle and muta harras vs zerg is really something that you defend sooo easy.
for the rest lets see how the balance turns out in some weeks, especially zergs need to elarn the new timings they are hurt by this addon, because its the reactive race. Widow mines not hitting air would make mech TvZ completely obsolete. Thors alone do not cut it against the improved mutalisk. I don't know why I keep reading people suggesting nerfs to tanks, mines and hellbats. We see so little mech to begin with, how about you just nerf the damn medivac since everyone is going bio because of it. In a mech ball, why would Thor perform any worse in HOTS than WoL? The muta buffs were acceleration and regeneration out of combat. Why do you assume insane harassing buffs do not matter against the slowest army in the game? I never said the ability to harass didn't matter, I said, in a straight up engagement, Mutas vs. Thors should be the same as in WoL. You claimed Thors alone don't cut it against Mutalisks, which may be true, but that should be no different than WoL. If Widow Mines didn't attack air you could just make extra turrets to make up for the immobility of your army against Mutalisks for example. While I don't know if nerfing Widow Mines vs air is the right call, to say that removing Widow Mine's ability to attack air would make mech obsolete seems incorrect. Thors alone dont cut it against the new muta harass. There. Did I really need to spell it out for you?The new mutas shit on turrets and can run away from thors all day long. Any single thor volleys taken (which in WOL were a big deal) are quickly healed. The muta buffs were a DIRECT response to the mine, how can you not understand that removing the mine from that equation will be problematic?
If that was the point you were trying to make then sure, make that point.
Agreed that new Mutas chew through Turrets no problem. I missed the part where Muta buffs were in response to Widow Mines, my assumption was that speed for Mutas was increased as a response to Emergency Thrusters and that regeneration was an attempt to promote more harass-centric play.
Anyways, it's a useless discussion as I agree that removing Widow Mines ability to attack air is the wrong solution, although we have different opinions on why that is.
edit: fixed typo
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On March 18 2013 03:54 DrPhilOfdOOm wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2013 03:50 dacimvrl wrote:On March 18 2013 03:42 DrPhilOfdOOm wrote:On March 18 2013 03:33 dacimvrl wrote:On March 18 2013 03:30 DrPhilOfdOOm wrote:On March 18 2013 03:23 dacimvrl wrote:On March 18 2013 03:17 DrPhilOfdOOm wrote:On March 18 2013 03:12 dacimvrl wrote:On March 18 2013 03:08 aksfjh wrote:On March 18 2013 03:03 Holdenintherye wrote:
I dont think Blizzard even saw this coming. IIRC they put in the medivac speedboost because if terran lost a fight, they would end up losing all their medivacs, so the speedboost was meant to help with unit retention. But now it's being used for hyper-aggressive multi-pronged attacks that weren't possible before.
It just makes the games sooo boring to watch "Man, all this action is so boring to watch!" I know right, this is so much more boring than the last 2 GSL code S seasons of WoL. Zzzzz Wow, I think your worthy of some sort of medal for beeing the most terran biased poster on TL. You just can't accept the fact that some aspects of the terran race might be abit to powerful at its current state. Even the pros agree that T is abit silly atm. Who are you to argue? You are probably silver-diamond, go to bed... jeeez well, like I and many others have been saying, the game hasn't even been out for a week, and people are already crying imba? Which pros besides parting cried imba? Suppy acknowledge there's no imba, but Zerg haven't figured out the timings in yesterday's post-game interview. Not to mention I did acknowledge that widow mines may require a blast radius nerf earlier, so I am not sure who's more biased. There has been a beta, people knew what was potentially imba even before reliease. That was why so many hoped for a patch right as the game launched. so, that still doesn't answer my counter-argument. Which pros besides parting said imba? Like I said, Suppy, a zerg pro, said there was no imba, it was just that zerg timings haven't been figured out to adapt to the new units. So, is Suppy wrong? Well, MC for one, saying PvT is fine but ZvT is terran favored. http://www.gamespot.com/starcraft-ii-heart-of-the-swarm/videos/mc-thinks-he-can-be-champion-after-win-against-mvp-mlg-dallas-6405465/ So MC says P is balanced all around, but ZvT is T favored, and Stephano said Protoss was OP in ZvP, Stephano said he knows exactly what's coming, but he could not do anything about it.. so, is MC right that voidray is fine or is Stephano right saying protoss is OP? And is Suppy, the zerg pro wrong to say that there's no imba in ZvT, but people haven't figured out the timings? So is MC right, or is Stephano or Suppy right? what I think - MC obviously says P is perfectly fine, hell, he plays protoss lol Hell, you play Terran, thus you defend the race. You will feel stupied when you nerf will come. just saying.
A nerf? Why? Because KOREAN terrans destroyed FOREIGNERS? Look at korean vs korean, and you will see pure balance.
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On March 18 2013 05:54 Snowbear wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2013 03:54 DrPhilOfdOOm wrote:On March 18 2013 03:50 dacimvrl wrote:On March 18 2013 03:42 DrPhilOfdOOm wrote:On March 18 2013 03:33 dacimvrl wrote:On March 18 2013 03:30 DrPhilOfdOOm wrote:On March 18 2013 03:23 dacimvrl wrote:On March 18 2013 03:17 DrPhilOfdOOm wrote:On March 18 2013 03:12 dacimvrl wrote:On March 18 2013 03:08 aksfjh wrote:
[quote]
"Man, all this action is so boring to watch!" I know right, this is so much more boring than the last 2 GSL code S seasons of WoL. Zzzzz Wow, I think your worthy of some sort of medal for beeing the most terran biased poster on TL. You just can't accept the fact that some aspects of the terran race might be abit to powerful at its current state. Even the pros agree that T is abit silly atm. Who are you to argue? You are probably silver-diamond, go to bed... jeeez well, like I and many others have been saying, the game hasn't even been out for a week, and people are already crying imba? Which pros besides parting cried imba? Suppy acknowledge there's no imba, but Zerg haven't figured out the timings in yesterday's post-game interview. Not to mention I did acknowledge that widow mines may require a blast radius nerf earlier, so I am not sure who's more biased. There has been a beta, people knew what was potentially imba even before reliease. That was why so many hoped for a patch right as the game launched. so, that still doesn't answer my counter-argument. Which pros besides parting said imba? Like I said, Suppy, a zerg pro, said there was no imba, it was just that zerg timings haven't been figured out to adapt to the new units. So, is Suppy wrong? Well, MC for one, saying PvT is fine but ZvT is terran favored. http://www.gamespot.com/starcraft-ii-heart-of-the-swarm/videos/mc-thinks-he-can-be-champion-after-win-against-mvp-mlg-dallas-6405465/ So MC says P is balanced all around, but ZvT is T favored, and Stephano said Protoss was OP in ZvP, Stephano said he knows exactly what's coming, but he could not do anything about it.. so, is MC right that voidray is fine or is Stephano right saying protoss is OP? And is Suppy, the zerg pro wrong to say that there's no imba in ZvT, but people haven't figured out the timings? So is MC right, or is Stephano or Suppy right? what I think - MC obviously says P is perfectly fine, hell, he plays protoss lol Hell, you play Terran, thus you defend the race. You will feel stupied when you nerf will come. just saying. A nerf? Why? Because KOREAN terrans destroyed FOREIGNERS? Look at korean vs korean, and you will see pure balance.
Yeah EXACTLY. Watch Korean vs Korean games and tell me the game isn't balanced?! 1 Protoss, 1 Zerg and 2 Terrans. Seems perfect to me.
So psyched for next GSL :D
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EPT
