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i don't like it at the bottom either.
in fact I don't like how it is one above the other. For example on a 1v1 map, player A red colour spawned top, player B blue at bottom. the supply resource tab sometimes has the Blue on top of the red, making it feels kinda misplaced.
(same with the default observer tab which I find annoying)
it being bottom also makes it feel more narrow and it just block out something (not anything crucial)
imagine a zerg trying to break down a FFE by mass speedlings, the tab blocks out how many sentries there are unless you zoom out a little, or move the camera down a little
it also feel a little unbalanced since top right aren't gonna have anything important going on.
Another one I wanna talk about is the worker production. I don't think it needs to be shown at all. It kinda makes the bases a bit too messy and not a lot of uses to know a worker is being produced
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On April 28 2013 03:58 Goldfish wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2013 21:03 mostevil wrote:On April 27 2013 19:02 Grend wrote:
I really hope this becomes standard. It is borderline painful to watch NASL stream on Dreamhack, loving the gameheart so much!
The supply down middle was annoying for 15 minutes, now I really like it. It makes sense and looks great out of the way. Yeah can't agree more. It's a huge leap forward. The supply at the bottom is weird at first but once you get used to it it's better as its out of the way and maximises viewing area. Looking top right for supply to bottom left minimap is part of the challenge playing but its nice to not have to when viewing. Blizard would be insane to not take this in-house. Yeah, agreed. The supply at the bottom middle seems weird but it has not only the supply but everything too (worker count, upgrades, income, etc). So instead of having to look at top right (supply), top left (production tab), bottom for map and interface, now you just have you look at top left or bottom mid. Maybe just bottom mid (since upgrades and everything display on the structures, most of the time I notice it on the structures before the production tab now). Overall, GameHeart's interface works great.
For quick glances its beneficial to have more general locations to glance so its easier to autolock on that single piece of info. But if you put all the information in one general area, you must first focus your view on that general area, and then find the relevant info.
Just look at Google Chrome, not every button is focused in one area - Back/Forward/Refresh are to the left, and Options/Bookmark/Zoom are at the top right. The browser status pop's up at the bottom, not top where every other UI element is.
It's still too soon to tell if bottom-mid is actually the right place for supply, since people have not experimented with designs enough.
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GameHeart Overlay kicks ass, I'm glad Dreamhack is using it! 
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i absolutely love the new design!
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On April 28 2013 06:19 rename wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2013 03:58 Goldfish wrote:On April 27 2013 21:03 mostevil wrote:On April 27 2013 19:02 Grend wrote:
I really hope this becomes standard. It is borderline painful to watch NASL stream on Dreamhack, loving the gameheart so much!
The supply down middle was annoying for 15 minutes, now I really like it. It makes sense and looks great out of the way. Yeah can't agree more. It's a huge leap forward. The supply at the bottom is weird at first but once you get used to it it's better as its out of the way and maximises viewing area. Looking top right for supply to bottom left minimap is part of the challenge playing but its nice to not have to when viewing. Blizard would be insane to not take this in-house. Yeah, agreed. The supply at the bottom middle seems weird but it has not only the supply but everything too (worker count, upgrades, income, etc). So instead of having to look at top right (supply), top left (production tab), bottom for map and interface, now you just have you look at top left or bottom mid. Maybe just bottom mid (since upgrades and everything display on the structures, most of the time I notice it on the structures before the production tab now). Overall, GameHeart's interface works great. For quick glances its beneficial to have more general locations to glance so its easier to autolock on that single piece of info. But if you put all the information in one general area, you must first focus your view on that general area, and then find the relevant info. Just look at Google Chrome, not every button is focused in one area - Back/Forward/Refresh are to the left, and Options/Bookmark/Zoom are at the top right. The browser status pop's up at the bottom, not top where every other UI element is. It's still too soon to tell if bottom-mid is actually the right place for supply, since people have not experimented with designs enough.
Your argument doesn't make much sense either. If you know where the information is, you'll find it instantly. If you don't , then you'll do what you said. You'll find the information just as fast with it in the bottom middle once you get use to it. If you can discern the difference between playing and watching, and get confused that way? You probably have worst problems.
Second, the whole purpose of them moving this information to the bottom middle was because at lower resoluations it was impossible to read the supply or mineral counts in that tiny corner with tiny font (at least those with running in crappy resolutions) You could make it bigger, but then you're taking up A LOT of viewing space. It was bad enough that we had the production tab, the overlay, and the supply at the top with A HUGE black box at the bottom that held little to no relevant information.
Moving to where it is now in GameHeart makes sense, and I am flabbergasted that people think it's a bad idea. You honestly think that having huge boxes with mostly irrelevant information is better than having the players supply, income and worker counts? I hated the player cams because all you ever saw was them just sitting there, moving their eyes. Most of the time, you couldn't see their hands, and it just took up space.
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Here is a link to my explanation as to why the resources are at the bottom.
I will not be moving them in my own designs because I feel quite strongly about the issue but I plan to add the ability for tournaments to create their own designs with GameHeart so those of you who feel strongly the other way are welcome to pressure those tournaments when the time comes to put the resources back in the top right.
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On April 28 2013 07:10 GameHeart wrote:Here is a link to my explanation as to why the resources are at the bottom.I will not be moving them in my own designs because I feel quite strongly about the issue but I plan to add the ability for tournaments to create their own designs with GameHeart so those of you who feel strongly the other way are welcome to pressure those tournaments when the time comes to put the resources back in the top right.
Very good reasoning (ok, I was on "your" side before...) but that's really something I didn´t think before. Same UI space used doesn´t mean same map space blocked.
Like I said before in I personally don´t like the Production tab etc. like it´s now. Is it possible to make it a bit smaller and ad it to the bottom, or let it run along the side(s)? Well, that's perhaps a really personal preference. I just don´t like how it´s reaches far into the screen when many units/buildings are made.
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Personally for me, I don't find it a big deal to switch between top right or bottom when playing vs when watching.
Though, I remember having no problem switching back and forth between playing an MMO where I used number pad keys to move (instead of WASD) and to an FPS (NS 1 for example) with WASD movements (yep, inb4 who used number pad key to move... well I liked it that way and it worked in the MMO I played >.>).
Speaking of that, I also had no problem between rotating playing between BW and SC2 too (I had no problem with going back to the BW interface, even after being used to SC2).
So, I guess it really depends on the person (changing stuff is no problem in my case... unless it has to do with Google doing some silly pointless change in gmail >.>).
I can see it as valid concern though if it does mess up your viewing experiences in game (as opposed to spectating, I think getting used to it via spectating is easily), like in game if you kept looking at the bottom mid to see your supply instead of top right.
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So this was the overlay used for Dreamhack right? I have to say it looks really nice! The attack/armor upgrades and amount of workers always showing at the bottom, the ability for the obs to zoom out in big battles, the icons of units being produced, the team and tournament overlays on the maps.. They are all hughe improvements over the traditional obs interface, very well thought out.
I think I catched a bug: when Gumiho was producing 2 widow mines from a reactored factory and the reactor was killed, then a widow mine icon persisted over the factory for the duration of the game, even though hellbats were being produced instead of widow mines.
And a feature request: I found the icons of the units being produced and updates being researched very nice and informative; could you also add an icon for morphing/warping/building buildings? It would make it easy to spot for instance what are spine crawlers and spore crawlers without the obs having to select them for instance. It looks like it might not be difficult to implement and would be a nice addition.
Overall, very good job!
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It seems like, on certain maps, the FXO logo doesn't show up well on creep, I suppose this is a function of the ambient lighting of the map itself.
It's a pretty minor issue, but you've got a great system and that's the biggest criticism I have.
(The muscle memory of looking in the top right for supply/money will take getting used to, but i'm willing to change. Hopefully this sees wide-spread enough use that I won't have to flip back and forth D: )
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I just like to thank you guys for providing an excellent interface during the entire Dreamhack tournament. Loved it!
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Great work GameHeart Team!! Just loved the interface on DreamHack!! Hope to see more GameHeart on future tornaments!! :D
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On April 28 2013 08:19 Loxley wrote:
I just like to thank you guys for providing an excellent interface during the entire Dreamhack tournament. Loved it!
This completely. Thank you so much for this awesome program, it made the spectating experience a lot more enjoyable!
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I suggest adding APM counter next to upgrades on the scoreboard.
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On April 28 2013 07:10 GameHeart wrote:Here is a link to my explanation as to why the resources are at the bottom.I will not be moving them in my own designs because I feel quite strongly about the issue but I plan to add the ability for tournaments to create their own designs with GameHeart so those of you who feel strongly the other way are welcome to pressure those tournaments when the time comes to put the resources back in the top right.
Wow you actually make a very solid arguement for why resources/supply should be on the bottom. I think you are striking the right balance between giving the community time to get used to supply on the bottom while in the long run planning to let tournaments customize their experience.
Hopefully people will eventually appreciate the increased space real estate but if they ultimately reject it because "Ive always looked top for supply" then its not the end of the world.
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Great work with this, looks a lot more clean than standard ui!
However, I'll also say that I don't like the ressources and supply at the bottom. I'm just way too used to look at the top right from playing, so it feels really weird to me to look at the bottom for this information.
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On April 28 2013 23:53 Archerofaiur wrote:Wow you actually make a very solid arguement for why supply should be on the bottom. I think ur striking the right balance between giving the comunity time to get used to supply on the bottom while in the long run planning to let tournaments customize their expeirence. Hopefully people will eventually appreciate the increased space realestate but if they ultimately reject it because "ive always looked top for supply" then its not the end of the world.
But that line of argumentation only works for viewers that never play themselves...I don't really want to get used to look at the bottom, as it might confuse me in game o.O
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Really loved this at DH.
My only suggestion:
In the bar down on the bottom where (I think) upgrades were being shown, would it make sense to draw a number "2M" (2 Melee) or "3R" (Ranged) [for Zerg] or "2B" (2 Bio) [for Terran] or whatever on them so that people could quickly process the info without knowing what the actual icons were?
Thanks for all the hard work you've put in.
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On April 29 2013 00:32 Jnai wrote:
Really loved this at DH.
My only suggestion:
In the bar down on the bottom where (I think) upgrades were being shown, would it make sense to draw a number "2M" (2 Melee) or "3R" (Ranged) [for Zerg] or "2B" (2 Bio) [for Terran] or whatever on them so that people could quickly process the info without knowing what the actual icons were?
Thanks for all the hard work you've put in.
I like the icons. If you don't know the icons, you probably won't know the 2B as well I feel
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On April 29 2013 00:44 Ketch wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2013 00:32 Jnai wrote:
Really loved this at DH.
My only suggestion:
In the bar down on the bottom where (I think) upgrades were being shown, would it make sense to draw a number "2M" (2 Melee) or "3R" (Ranged) [for Zerg] or "2B" (2 Bio) [for Terran] or whatever on them so that people could quickly process the info without knowing what the actual icons were?
Thanks for all the hard work you've put in. I like the icons. If you don't know the icons, you probably won't know the 2B as well I feel
I like the icons too, but they're almost impossible for a non-player to parse into useful information. The number of games you'd have to watch to learn that the little sword with the red glow effect meant "+3" vs the blue glow effect meant "+2" would be enormous - even though upgrades are an incredibly important part of the game.
Some kind of easy to understand representation of those things would be an improvement, I think.
Anyway, I love the UI. =)
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EPT
