An upgrade that requires 150/150 and 110seconds , a tech lab and an armory...just insane. I would had expected a 50/50 60seconds upgrade or combining blue flame and the transformation into a single upgrade with the new price but this wow. I guess now we will have to skip helions and go straight to hellbats.
You expect us to believe a 14.5 dps unit that moves at 2.81 (with upgrade) is the worst unit in the game. Either you have no idea how to optimize their damage output beyond a-move, you use them unescorted or both.
Well, Terrans are trying to sell a 35.6dps 550HP/3armor unit with a 300damage blast (with upgrade) which additionally can fly as bad unit.
You see how ridicolous such stuff sounds when you don't include how much those units cost or what they require? And you tell other people how immature their discussion style is...
I didn't believe you'd resort to lying, Big J. I'll try to be civil.
It should be read as:
Terrans are trying to sell a 35.6dps range 6, 550HP/3 armor unit with 300 damage blast (with upgrade) every 125 seconds, vulnerablility to feedback spell and which additionally can fly as bad unit.
In any case on 4 bases, cost is not an issue, production rate is.
On February 23 2013 18:31 avilo wrote: No Terran player is going to argue btw guys, because this is how it works during beta:
Zerg players die from only building drones and queens, while complaining about anything from Terran on stream.
Blizzard sees this, they also see all the Protoss whining about "widow mine drops."
If any Terran *raises his hand* and is like, "eh...wait what? We're only nerfing Terran stuff that wasn't an issue in the first place?" they get labelled as a "whiner" by the Zerg / Protoss whiners.
All the attention lately is on Terran's only two new units, the hellbat and widow mine, and how they "MUST BE NERFED THEY'RE SO IMBA" after literally 2 weeks of new metagame usage of the hellbat.
Things ignored by the community (possibly blizzard? would hope not) :
-viper blinding cloud radius/duration -ultra buff vs bio -oracles vs all races bursting down workers -tvp early game being a cluster fuck
I cannot wait till people find out about the new Zerg abuse that will be shown soon - mass vipers + mass static defense with traditional broodlords+corruptor+infestor turtle mode.
As well as mass swarmhost + corruptor.
When this strategy comes out soon, it won't be deemed imbalanced (because it's Zerg) - people are instead going to say how fucking innovative it is and golf clap their hands without a second thought because right now whichever part of the community whines the loudest or whichever popular streamers do get the game changed for the worse.
I agreed with a lot of the hellbat nerfs, especially the cargo one. But double and triple nerfing/buffing units is a bit too much. And it historically only happens to Terran. I personally don't care if Terran is nerfed further, nor should any other Terran player. What would be nice though is that they were consistent across all 3 of the races with nerfs/buffs, instead of only nerfing Terran.
If you're going to nerf/buff something of one race, you have to do it across the board and look at all three races and what's possibly too strong or weak. Not to mention you get 10x better PR for it.
And Terrans will continue to not say shit here or anywhere else because of the backlash they get for actually having an opinion.
It would be nice if more Terran players had some balls.
I think this post had far too many unfair statements, that do a poor and misleading job of representing the community/situation. You make a few reasonable points maybe, but some lines are just flat out incorrect, and many are exaggerated, showing how 1-sided and skewed your perception is. This is common in a lot of your posts, and needs to stop.
Fact: Terran is the least played race: http://www.sc2ranks.com/stats/league/all/1/all Fact: Terran has the worst w/l ratio TvZ; moreso than any other race Fact: Terran hasn't won a GSL since the queen patch and a significant amount of Zerg began to dominate major EU and NA tournaments since the patch Fact: Blizzard admits to balance issues with the infestor but chose to address it in HoTS - 7 months later. Fact: Even Stephon, the 4 hotkey Code S player, admits Zerg is the best race: http://starcraftstalker.blogspot.com/2012/11/zerg-imba_12.html Fact (arguable): Terran was the least "improved" race in HoTS. Aside from the Window mine, no new units were introduced but "reworked" or improved. While P and Z receive a whole host of T2 and T3 units: Tempest, Oracles, Swarm Hosts, Vipers. And it is commonly accepted Terran already stuggles late game. Fact: Taking some of these issues into account, Blizzard instituted two MAJOR nerfs to one of the new, core Terran units. No other race has seen such a drastic change so close to release. Many Protoss (myself admittedly, b/c I play T and P) see Prismatic alignment as way too powerful. But the only change Blizzard makes is a timer on the unit? The only advantage I see the timer providing is letting your opponent know how long it will take to obliterate your army.
While avilo's statement can come off as inflammatory, and I may have taken a different approach, it is hard to ignore the frustration Terran players have with the kneejerk reaction Blizzard has to this race compared to Protoss and Zerg.
You expect us to believe a 14.5 dps unit that moves at 2.81 (with upgrade) is the worst unit in the game. Either you have no idea how to optimize their damage output beyond a-move, you use them unescorted or both.
Well, Terrans are trying to sell a 35.6dps 550HP/3armor unit with a 300damage blast (with upgrade) which additionally can fly as bad unit.
You see how ridicolous such stuff sounds when you don't include how much those units cost or what they require? And you tell other people how immature their discussion style is...
I didn't believe you'd resort to lying, Big J. I'll try to be civil.
Terrans are trying to sell a 35.6dps range 6, 550HP/3 armor unit with 300 damage blast (with upgrade) every 125 seconds, vulnerablility to feedback spell and which additionally can fly as bad unit.
In any case on 4 bases, cost is not an issue, production rate is.
Really hard to even know where to begin with responding to this bullshit. I know I shouldn't, it's not worth my time. But whatever, I'm in a good mood, can as well have some fun with this troll,
So whenever someone describes a unit he has to point out every stat the unit has and every spell interaction? Yeah, what a lyer I am not mentioning every freaking thing that is true for the BC. Pssst, before someone says that hydralisks don't get a dusk/dawn sight bonus you really should mention it... Oh too late. I found out that you didn't mention it. You lyer! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
And to your "cost is no issue, production rate is". Well, if cost is no issue and you have 50scvs (so building production rate is 50), why don't you build 50starports to get the same production rate as a zerg? Of course cost is THE issue. Z and P have more production, because their infrastructure COSTS less.
On February 23 2013 18:31 avilo wrote: No Terran player is going to argue btw guys, because this is how it works during beta:
Zerg players die from only building drones and queens, while complaining about anything from Terran on stream.
Blizzard sees this, they also see all the Protoss whining about "widow mine drops."
If any Terran *raises his hand* and is like, "eh...wait what? We're only nerfing Terran stuff that wasn't an issue in the first place?" they get labelled as a "whiner" by the Zerg / Protoss whiners.
All the attention lately is on Terran's only two new units, the hellbat and widow mine, and how they "MUST BE NERFED THEY'RE SO IMBA" after literally 2 weeks of new metagame usage of the hellbat.
Things ignored by the community (possibly blizzard? would hope not) :
-viper blinding cloud radius/duration -ultra buff vs bio -oracles vs all races bursting down workers -tvp early game being a cluster fuck
I cannot wait till people find out about the new Zerg abuse that will be shown soon - mass vipers + mass static defense with traditional broodlords+corruptor+infestor turtle mode.
As well as mass swarmhost + corruptor.
When this strategy comes out soon, it won't be deemed imbalanced (because it's Zerg) - people are instead going to say how fucking innovative it is and golf clap their hands without a second thought because right now whichever part of the community whines the loudest or whichever popular streamers do get the game changed for the worse.
I agreed with a lot of the hellbat nerfs, especially the cargo one. But double and triple nerfing/buffing units is a bit too much. And it historically only happens to Terran. I personally don't care if Terran is nerfed further, nor should any other Terran player. What would be nice though is that they were consistent across all 3 of the races with nerfs/buffs, instead of only nerfing Terran.
If you're going to nerf/buff something of one race, you have to do it across the board and look at all three races and what's possibly too strong or weak. Not to mention you get 10x better PR for it.
And Terrans will continue to not say shit here or anywhere else because of the backlash they get for actually having an opinion.
It would be nice if more Terran players had some balls.
I think this post had far too many unfair statements, that do a poor and misleading job of representing the community/situation. You make a few reasonable points maybe, but some lines are just flat out incorrect, and many are exaggerated, showing how 1-sided and skewed your perception is. This is common in a lot of your posts, and needs to stop.
Fact: Terran is the least played race: http://www.sc2ranks.com/stats/league/all/1/all Fact: Terran has the worst w/l ratio TvZ; moreso than any other race Fact: Terran hasn't won a GSL since the queen patch and a significant amount of Zerg began to dominate major EU and NA tournaments since the patch Fact: Blizzard admits to balance issues with the infestor but chose to address it in HoTS - 7 months later. Fact: Even Stephon, the 4 hotkey Code S player, admits Zerg is the best race: http://starcraftstalker.blogspot.com/2012/11/zerg-imba_12.html Fact (arguable): Terran was the least "improved" race in HoTS. Aside from the Window mine, no new units were introduced but "reworked" or improved. While P and T receive a whole host of T2 and T3 units: Tempest, Oracles, Swarm Hosts, Vipers. And it is commonly accepted Terran already stuggles late game. Fact: Taking some of these issues into account, Blizzard instituted two MAJOR nerfs to one of the new, core Terran units. No other race has seen such a drastic change so close to release. Many Protoss (myself admittedly, b/c I play T and P) see Prismatic alignment as way too powerful. But the only change Blizzard makes is a timer on the unit? The only advantage I see the timer providing is letting your opponent know how long it will take to obliterate your army.
While avilo's statement can come off as inflammatory, and I may have taken a different approach, it is hard to ignore the frustration Terran players have with the kneejerk reaction Blizzard has to this race compared to Protoss and Zerg.
There are several problems I have with this post, but I've got to run and it would take a lot of time to pick apart your post and find all the evidence that would back my argument up. However there's one point in particular that struck me as heinously wrong, and that's
And it is commonly accepted Terran already stuggles late game.
maxed terran mech and even scarier, ultimate sky terran armies are afaik widely considered incredibly difficult to beat and seemingly impossible to beat, respectively. for a quick reference to back me up, listen to SOTG's most recent episode where qxc says that if he gets a maxed mech army vs zerg he never loses, and if he gets maxed skyterran it's impossible to lose
Please note: i'm not saying lategame terran is imbalanced, that remains to be seen. I'm just saying that the way things seem right now, both terrans and zergs alike seem to think that it's pretty tough for zerg once terran gets those things. Hopefully we just haven't figured the game out yet, and it's very very new still and so many changes are happening all the time. And it was hard to get to a normal sort of midgame and normal endgame with the crazy aggression terrans were having success with earlygame, but with the new patches that changes a ton. So we'll see.
On February 23 2013 18:31 avilo wrote: No Terran player is going to argue btw guys, because this is how it works during beta:
Zerg players die from only building drones and queens, while complaining about anything from Terran on stream.
Blizzard sees this, they also see all the Protoss whining about "widow mine drops."
If any Terran *raises his hand* and is like, "eh...wait what? We're only nerfing Terran stuff that wasn't an issue in the first place?" they get labelled as a "whiner" by the Zerg / Protoss whiners.
All the attention lately is on Terran's only two new units, the hellbat and widow mine, and how they "MUST BE NERFED THEY'RE SO IMBA" after literally 2 weeks of new metagame usage of the hellbat.
Things ignored by the community (possibly blizzard? would hope not) :
-viper blinding cloud radius/duration -ultra buff vs bio -oracles vs all races bursting down workers -tvp early game being a cluster fuck
I cannot wait till people find out about the new Zerg abuse that will be shown soon - mass vipers + mass static defense with traditional broodlords+corruptor+infestor turtle mode.
As well as mass swarmhost + corruptor.
When this strategy comes out soon, it won't be deemed imbalanced (because it's Zerg) - people are instead going to say how fucking innovative it is and golf clap their hands without a second thought because right now whichever part of the community whines the loudest or whichever popular streamers do get the game changed for the worse.
I agreed with a lot of the hellbat nerfs, especially the cargo one. But double and triple nerfing/buffing units is a bit too much. And it historically only happens to Terran. I personally don't care if Terran is nerfed further, nor should any other Terran player. What would be nice though is that they were consistent across all 3 of the races with nerfs/buffs, instead of only nerfing Terran.
If you're going to nerf/buff something of one race, you have to do it across the board and look at all three races and what's possibly too strong or weak. Not to mention you get 10x better PR for it.
And Terrans will continue to not say shit here or anywhere else because of the backlash they get for actually having an opinion.
It would be nice if more Terran players had some balls.
I think this post had far too many unfair statements, that do a poor and misleading job of representing the community/situation. You make a few reasonable points maybe, but some lines are just flat out incorrect, and many are exaggerated, showing how 1-sided and skewed your perception is. This is common in a lot of your posts, and needs to stop.
Fact: Terran is the least played race: http://www.sc2ranks.com/stats/league/all/1/all Fact: Terran has the worst w/l ratio TvZ; moreso than any other race Fact: Terran hasn't won a GSL since the queen patch and a significant amount of Zerg began to dominate major EU and NA tournaments since the patch Fact: Blizzard admits to balance issues with the infestor but chose to address it in HoTS - 7 months later. Fact: Even Stephon, the 4 hotkey Code S player, admits Zerg is the best race: http://starcraftstalker.blogspot.com/2012/11/zerg-imba_12.html Fact (arguable): Terran was the least "improved" race in HoTS. Aside from the Window mine, no new units were introduced but "reworked" or improved. While P and T receive a whole host of T2 and T3 units: Tempest, Oracles, Swarm Hosts, Vipers. And it is commonly accepted Terran already stuggles late game. Fact: Taking some of these issues into account, Blizzard instituted two MAJOR nerfs to one of the new, core Terran units. No other race has seen such a drastic change so close to release. Many Protoss (myself admittedly, b/c I play T and P) see Prismatic alignment as way too powerful. But the only change Blizzard makes is a timer on the unit? The only advantage I see the timer providing is letting your opponent know how long it will take to obliterate your army.
While avilo's statement can come off as inflammatory, and I may have taken a different approach, it is hard to ignore the frustration Terran players have with the kneejerk reaction Blizzard has to this race compared to Protoss and Zerg.
There are several problems I have with this post, but I've got to run and it would take a lot of time to pick apart your post and find all the evidence that would back my argument up. However there's one point in particular that struck me as heinously wrong, and that's
And it is commonly accepted Terran already stuggles late game.
maxed terran mech and even scarier, ultimate sky terran armies are afaik widely considered incredibly difficult to beat and seemingly impossible to beat, respectively. for a quick reference to back me up, listen to SOTG's most recent episode where qxc says that if he gets a maxed mech army vs zerg he never loses, and if he gets maxed skyterran it's impossible to lose
Please note: i'm not saying lategame terran is imbalanced, that remains to be seen. I'm just saying that the way things seem right now, both terrans and zergs alike seem to think that it's pretty tough for zerg once terran gets those things. Hopefully we just haven't figured the game out yet, and it's very very new still and so many changes are happening all the time. And it was hard to get to a normal sort of midgame and normal endgame with the crazy aggression terrans were having success with earlygame, but with the new patches that changes a ton. So we'll see.
Don't open your eyes when you play against a well controlled skyprotoss w/ ht support. That will be significantly more one sided.
On February 23 2013 18:31 avilo wrote: No Terran player is going to argue btw guys, because this is how it works during beta:
Zerg players die from only building drones and queens, while complaining about anything from Terran on stream.
Blizzard sees this, they also see all the Protoss whining about "widow mine drops."
If any Terran *raises his hand* and is like, "eh...wait what? We're only nerfing Terran stuff that wasn't an issue in the first place?" they get labelled as a "whiner" by the Zerg / Protoss whiners.
All the attention lately is on Terran's only two new units, the hellbat and widow mine, and how they "MUST BE NERFED THEY'RE SO IMBA" after literally 2 weeks of new metagame usage of the hellbat.
Things ignored by the community (possibly blizzard? would hope not) :
-viper blinding cloud radius/duration -ultra buff vs bio -oracles vs all races bursting down workers -tvp early game being a cluster fuck
I cannot wait till people find out about the new Zerg abuse that will be shown soon - mass vipers + mass static defense with traditional broodlords+corruptor+infestor turtle mode.
As well as mass swarmhost + corruptor.
When this strategy comes out soon, it won't be deemed imbalanced (because it's Zerg) - people are instead going to say how fucking innovative it is and golf clap their hands without a second thought because right now whichever part of the community whines the loudest or whichever popular streamers do get the game changed for the worse.
I agreed with a lot of the hellbat nerfs, especially the cargo one. But double and triple nerfing/buffing units is a bit too much. And it historically only happens to Terran. I personally don't care if Terran is nerfed further, nor should any other Terran player. What would be nice though is that they were consistent across all 3 of the races with nerfs/buffs, instead of only nerfing Terran.
If you're going to nerf/buff something of one race, you have to do it across the board and look at all three races and what's possibly too strong or weak. Not to mention you get 10x better PR for it.
And Terrans will continue to not say shit here or anywhere else because of the backlash they get for actually having an opinion.
It would be nice if more Terran players had some balls.
I think this post had far too many unfair statements, that do a poor and misleading job of representing the community/situation. You make a few reasonable points maybe, but some lines are just flat out incorrect, and many are exaggerated, showing how 1-sided and skewed your perception is. This is common in a lot of your posts, and needs to stop.
Fact: Terran is the least played race: http://www.sc2ranks.com/stats/league/all/1/all Fact: Terran has the worst w/l ratio TvZ; moreso than any other race Fact: Terran hasn't won a GSL since the queen patch and a significant amount of Zerg began to dominate major EU and NA tournaments since the patch Fact: Blizzard admits to balance issues with the infestor but chose to address it in HoTS - 7 months later. Fact: Even Stephon, the 4 hotkey Code S player, admits Zerg is the best race: http://starcraftstalker.blogspot.com/2012/11/zerg-imba_12.html Fact (arguable): Terran was the least "improved" race in HoTS. Aside from the Window mine, no new units were introduced but "reworked" or improved. While P and T receive a whole host of T2 and T3 units: Tempest, Oracles, Swarm Hosts, Vipers. And it is commonly accepted Terran already stuggles late game. Fact: Taking some of these issues into account, Blizzard instituted two MAJOR nerfs to one of the new, core Terran units. No other race has seen such a drastic change so close to release. Many Protoss (myself admittedly, b/c I play T and P) see Prismatic alignment as way too powerful. But the only change Blizzard makes is a timer on the unit? The only advantage I see the timer providing is letting your opponent know how long it will take to obliterate your army.
While avilo's statement can come off as inflammatory, and I may have taken a different approach, it is hard to ignore the frustration Terran players have with the kneejerk reaction Blizzard has to this race compared to Protoss and Zerg.
There are several problems I have with this post, but I've got to run and it would take a lot of time to pick apart your post and find all the evidence that would back my argument up. However there's one point in particular that struck me as heinously wrong, and that's
And it is commonly accepted Terran already stuggles late game.
maxed terran mech and even scarier, ultimate sky terran armies are afaik widely considered incredibly difficult to beat and seemingly impossible to beat, respectively. for a quick reference to back me up, listen to SOTG's most recent episode where qxc says that if he gets a maxed mech army vs zerg he never loses, and if he gets maxed skyterran it's impossible to lose
Please note: i'm not saying lategame terran is imbalanced, that remains to be seen. I'm just saying that the way things seem right now, both terrans and zergs alike seem to think that it's pretty tough for zerg once terran gets those things. Hopefully we just haven't figured the game out yet, and it's very very new still and so many changes are happening all the time. And it was hard to get to a normal sort of midgame and normal endgame with the crazy aggression terrans were having success with earlygame, but with the new patches that changes a ton. So we'll see.
Don't open your eyes when you play against a well controlled skyprotoss w/ ht support. That will be significantly more one sided.
Do you have an inability to make ghosts? There goes the HT support. Ravens will rape anything that's grouped. Yamato cannon can rape anything that's not grouped.
On February 23 2013 18:31 avilo wrote: No Terran player is going to argue btw guys, because this is how it works during beta:
Zerg players die from only building drones and queens, while complaining about anything from Terran on stream.
Blizzard sees this, they also see all the Protoss whining about "widow mine drops."
If any Terran *raises his hand* and is like, "eh...wait what? We're only nerfing Terran stuff that wasn't an issue in the first place?" they get labelled as a "whiner" by the Zerg / Protoss whiners.
All the attention lately is on Terran's only two new units, the hellbat and widow mine, and how they "MUST BE NERFED THEY'RE SO IMBA" after literally 2 weeks of new metagame usage of the hellbat.
Things ignored by the community (possibly blizzard? would hope not) :
-viper blinding cloud radius/duration -ultra buff vs bio -oracles vs all races bursting down workers -tvp early game being a cluster fuck
I cannot wait till people find out about the new Zerg abuse that will be shown soon - mass vipers + mass static defense with traditional broodlords+corruptor+infestor turtle mode.
As well as mass swarmhost + corruptor.
When this strategy comes out soon, it won't be deemed imbalanced (because it's Zerg) - people are instead going to say how fucking innovative it is and golf clap their hands without a second thought because right now whichever part of the community whines the loudest or whichever popular streamers do get the game changed for the worse.
I agreed with a lot of the hellbat nerfs, especially the cargo one. But double and triple nerfing/buffing units is a bit too much. And it historically only happens to Terran. I personally don't care if Terran is nerfed further, nor should any other Terran player. What would be nice though is that they were consistent across all 3 of the races with nerfs/buffs, instead of only nerfing Terran.
If you're going to nerf/buff something of one race, you have to do it across the board and look at all three races and what's possibly too strong or weak. Not to mention you get 10x better PR for it.
And Terrans will continue to not say shit here or anywhere else because of the backlash they get for actually having an opinion.
It would be nice if more Terran players had some balls.
I think this post had far too many unfair statements, that do a poor and misleading job of representing the community/situation. You make a few reasonable points maybe, but some lines are just flat out incorrect, and many are exaggerated, showing how 1-sided and skewed your perception is. This is common in a lot of your posts, and needs to stop.
Fact: Terran is the least played race: http://www.sc2ranks.com/stats/league/all/1/all Fact: Terran has the worst w/l ratio TvZ; moreso than any other race Fact: Terran hasn't won a GSL since the queen patch and a significant amount of Zerg began to dominate major EU and NA tournaments since the patch Fact: Blizzard admits to balance issues with the infestor but chose to address it in HoTS - 7 months later. Fact: Even Stephon, the 4 hotkey Code S player, admits Zerg is the best race: http://starcraftstalker.blogspot.com/2012/11/zerg-imba_12.html Fact (arguable): Terran was the least "improved" race in HoTS. Aside from the Window mine, no new units were introduced but "reworked" or improved. While P and T receive a whole host of T2 and T3 units: Tempest, Oracles, Swarm Hosts, Vipers. And it is commonly accepted Terran already stuggles late game. Fact: Taking some of these issues into account, Blizzard instituted two MAJOR nerfs to one of the new, core Terran units. No other race has seen such a drastic change so close to release. Many Protoss (myself admittedly, b/c I play T and P) see Prismatic alignment as way too powerful. But the only change Blizzard makes is a timer on the unit? The only advantage I see the timer providing is letting your opponent know how long it will take to obliterate your army.
While avilo's statement can come off as inflammatory, and I may have taken a different approach, it is hard to ignore the frustration Terran players have with the kneejerk reaction Blizzard has to this race compared to Protoss and Zerg.
There are several problems I have with this post, but I've got to run and it would take a lot of time to pick apart your post and find all the evidence that would back my argument up. However there's one point in particular that struck me as heinously wrong, and that's
And it is commonly accepted Terran already stuggles late game.
maxed terran mech and even scarier, ultimate sky terran armies are afaik widely considered incredibly difficult to beat and seemingly impossible to beat, respectively. for a quick reference to back me up, listen to SOTG's most recent episode where qxc says that if he gets a maxed mech army vs zerg he never loses, and if he gets maxed skyterran it's impossible to lose
Please note: i'm not saying lategame terran is imbalanced, that remains to be seen. I'm just saying that the way things seem right now, both terrans and zergs alike seem to think that it's pretty tough for zerg once terran gets those things. Hopefully we just haven't figured the game out yet, and it's very very new still and so many changes are happening all the time. And it was hard to get to a normal sort of midgame and normal endgame with the crazy aggression terrans were having success with earlygame, but with the new patches that changes a ton. So we'll see.
As a high masters mech Terran I've never won an engagement against a Zerg going Hydra/Roach/Viper while both fully maxed. In WoL max mech (ground) used to always win versus a maxed zerg (ground). But that has changed. Perhaps its my composition (more WIndow Mines?) - I've even spread my tanks out BW style in clumps of 3, but blinding cloud lasts way too long, not to mention abduct ability. This is then usually followed up by Swarm Hosts to contain then BL.
As for Terran air. I've seen 60 minute games of Thorzain versus Zerg and can see how that can work. It usually ends up with the zerg mining out their side and just banging their heads against the wall running into Window mines and BC's. But honestly what percent of games get to the 50 minute mark?
On February 24 2013 02:54 SirPinky wrote: Fact (arguable): Terran was the least "improved" race in HoTS. Aside from the Window mine, no new units were introduced but "reworked" or improved. While P and Z receive a whole host of T2 and T3 units: Tempest, Oracles, Swarm Hosts, Vipers. And it is commonly accepted Terran already stuggles late game.
Widow mine is still an effective unit in the lategame, as is obviously the hellbat since its just a more tanky version of the same unit. You can't just ignore the reworked and improved units either, the thor/raven changes make a huge difference in many situations and air transitions are much easier when you get shared armor upgrades.
Terran used to struggle in the lategame, I don't think they struggle at all in the HOTS meta right now. I say this as a terran player.
On February 24 2013 02:54 SirPinky wrote: Fact (arguable): Terran was the least "improved" race in HoTS. Aside from the Window mine, no new units were introduced but "reworked" or improved. While P and Z receive a whole host of T2 and T3 units: Tempest, Oracles, Swarm Hosts, Vipers. And it is commonly accepted Terran already stuggles late game.
Widow mine is still an effective unit in the lategame, as is obviously the hellbat since its just a more tanky version of the same unit. You can't just ignore the reworked and improved units either, the thor/raven changes make a huge difference in many situations and air transitions are much easier when you get shared armor upgrades.
Terran used to struggle in the lategame, I don't think they struggle at all in the HOTS meta right now. I say this as a terran player.
this! WM + new superravens make T more than competitive lategame TvX. the race that struggles the most is by far Z in lategame HOTS which is mainly due to the fact that zerg AA is by far the worst in the whole game.
On February 23 2013 18:31 avilo wrote: No Terran player is going to argue btw guys, because this is how it works during beta:
Zerg players die from only building drones and queens, while complaining about anything from Terran on stream.
Blizzard sees this, they also see all the Protoss whining about "widow mine drops."
If any Terran *raises his hand* and is like, "eh...wait what? We're only nerfing Terran stuff that wasn't an issue in the first place?" they get labelled as a "whiner" by the Zerg / Protoss whiners.
All the attention lately is on Terran's only two new units, the hellbat and widow mine, and how they "MUST BE NERFED THEY'RE SO IMBA" after literally 2 weeks of new metagame usage of the hellbat.
Things ignored by the community (possibly blizzard? would hope not) :
-viper blinding cloud radius/duration -ultra buff vs bio -oracles vs all races bursting down workers -tvp early game being a cluster fuck
I cannot wait till people find out about the new Zerg abuse that will be shown soon - mass vipers + mass static defense with traditional broodlords+corruptor+infestor turtle mode.
As well as mass swarmhost + corruptor.
When this strategy comes out soon, it won't be deemed imbalanced (because it's Zerg) - people are instead going to say how fucking innovative it is and golf clap their hands without a second thought because right now whichever part of the community whines the loudest or whichever popular streamers do get the game changed for the worse.
I agreed with a lot of the hellbat nerfs, especially the cargo one. But double and triple nerfing/buffing units is a bit too much. And it historically only happens to Terran. I personally don't care if Terran is nerfed further, nor should any other Terran player. What would be nice though is that they were consistent across all 3 of the races with nerfs/buffs, instead of only nerfing Terran.
If you're going to nerf/buff something of one race, you have to do it across the board and look at all three races and what's possibly too strong or weak. Not to mention you get 10x better PR for it.
And Terrans will continue to not say shit here or anywhere else because of the backlash they get for actually having an opinion.
It would be nice if more Terran players had some balls.
I think this post had far too many unfair statements, that do a poor and misleading job of representing the community/situation. You make a few reasonable points maybe, but some lines are just flat out incorrect, and many are exaggerated, showing how 1-sided and skewed your perception is. This is common in a lot of your posts, and needs to stop.
Fact: Terran is the least played race: http://www.sc2ranks.com/stats/league/all/1/all Fact: Terran has the worst w/l ratio TvZ; moreso than any other race Fact: Terran hasn't won a GSL since the queen patch and a significant amount of Zerg began to dominate major EU and NA tournaments since the patch Fact: Blizzard admits to balance issues with the infestor but chose to address it in HoTS - 7 months later. Fact: Even Stephon, the 4 hotkey Code S player, admits Zerg is the best race: http://starcraftstalker.blogspot.com/2012/11/zerg-imba_12.html Fact (arguable): Terran was the least "improved" race in HoTS. Aside from the Window mine, no new units were introduced but "reworked" or improved. While P and T receive a whole host of T2 and T3 units: Tempest, Oracles, Swarm Hosts, Vipers. And it is commonly accepted Terran already stuggles late game. Fact: Taking some of these issues into account, Blizzard instituted two MAJOR nerfs to one of the new, core Terran units. No other race has seen such a drastic change so close to release. Many Protoss (myself admittedly, b/c I play T and P) see Prismatic alignment as way too powerful. But the only change Blizzard makes is a timer on the unit? The only advantage I see the timer providing is letting your opponent know how long it will take to obliterate your army.
While avilo's statement can come off as inflammatory, and I may have taken a different approach, it is hard to ignore the frustration Terran players have with the kneejerk reaction Blizzard has to this race compared to Protoss and Zerg.
There are several problems I have with this post, but I've got to run and it would take a lot of time to pick apart your post and find all the evidence that would back my argument up. However there's one point in particular that struck me as heinously wrong, and that's
And it is commonly accepted Terran already stuggles late game.
maxed terran mech and even scarier, ultimate sky terran armies are afaik widely considered incredibly difficult to beat and seemingly impossible to beat, respectively. for a quick reference to back me up, listen to SOTG's most recent episode where qxc says that if he gets a maxed mech army vs zerg he never loses, and if he gets maxed skyterran it's impossible to lose
Please note: i'm not saying lategame terran is imbalanced, that remains to be seen. I'm just saying that the way things seem right now, both terrans and zergs alike seem to think that it's pretty tough for zerg once terran gets those things. Hopefully we just haven't figured the game out yet, and it's very very new still and so many changes are happening all the time. And it was hard to get to a normal sort of midgame and normal endgame with the crazy aggression terrans were having success with earlygame, but with the new patches that changes a ton. So we'll see.
Don't open your eyes when you play against a well controlled skyprotoss w/ ht support. That will be significantly more one sided.
I've actually had some success with a really HUGE flank of just pure 3-3 hydras, since air is so awful vs them, and the only thing they can do is storm which is actually not very good if the hydras aren't clumped but standing in an arc attacking them. However this is mostly against a tempest/HT comp, carriers actually kill hydras fast which is a problem with support. And if they had colossus that'd be another problem, as vipers don't fare well against tempests that are revealed by oracles. And of course getting a huge arc can sometimes be difficult/impossible.
On February 23 2013 18:31 avilo wrote: No Terran player is going to argue btw guys, because this is how it works during beta:
Zerg players die from only building drones and queens, while complaining about anything from Terran on stream.
Blizzard sees this, they also see all the Protoss whining about "widow mine drops."
If any Terran *raises his hand* and is like, "eh...wait what? We're only nerfing Terran stuff that wasn't an issue in the first place?" they get labelled as a "whiner" by the Zerg / Protoss whiners.
All the attention lately is on Terran's only two new units, the hellbat and widow mine, and how they "MUST BE NERFED THEY'RE SO IMBA" after literally 2 weeks of new metagame usage of the hellbat.
Things ignored by the community (possibly blizzard? would hope not) :
-viper blinding cloud radius/duration -ultra buff vs bio -oracles vs all races bursting down workers -tvp early game being a cluster fuck
I cannot wait till people find out about the new Zerg abuse that will be shown soon - mass vipers + mass static defense with traditional broodlords+corruptor+infestor turtle mode.
As well as mass swarmhost + corruptor.
When this strategy comes out soon, it won't be deemed imbalanced (because it's Zerg) - people are instead going to say how fucking innovative it is and golf clap their hands without a second thought because right now whichever part of the community whines the loudest or whichever popular streamers do get the game changed for the worse.
I agreed with a lot of the hellbat nerfs, especially the cargo one. But double and triple nerfing/buffing units is a bit too much. And it historically only happens to Terran. I personally don't care if Terran is nerfed further, nor should any other Terran player. What would be nice though is that they were consistent across all 3 of the races with nerfs/buffs, instead of only nerfing Terran.
If you're going to nerf/buff something of one race, you have to do it across the board and look at all three races and what's possibly too strong or weak. Not to mention you get 10x better PR for it.
And Terrans will continue to not say shit here or anywhere else because of the backlash they get for actually having an opinion.
It would be nice if more Terran players had some balls.
I think this post had far too many unfair statements, that do a poor and misleading job of representing the community/situation. You make a few reasonable points maybe, but some lines are just flat out incorrect, and many are exaggerated, showing how 1-sided and skewed your perception is. This is common in a lot of your posts, and needs to stop.
Fact: Terran is the least played race: http://www.sc2ranks.com/stats/league/all/1/all Fact: Terran has the worst w/l ratio TvZ; moreso than any other race Fact: Terran hasn't won a GSL since the queen patch and a significant amount of Zerg began to dominate major EU and NA tournaments since the patch Fact: Blizzard admits to balance issues with the infestor but chose to address it in HoTS - 7 months later. Fact: Even Stephon, the 4 hotkey Code S player, admits Zerg is the best race: http://starcraftstalker.blogspot.com/2012/11/zerg-imba_12.html Fact (arguable): Terran was the least "improved" race in HoTS. Aside from the Window mine, no new units were introduced but "reworked" or improved. While P and T receive a whole host of T2 and T3 units: Tempest, Oracles, Swarm Hosts, Vipers. And it is commonly accepted Terran already stuggles late game. Fact: Taking some of these issues into account, Blizzard instituted two MAJOR nerfs to one of the new, core Terran units. No other race has seen such a drastic change so close to release. Many Protoss (myself admittedly, b/c I play T and P) see Prismatic alignment as way too powerful. But the only change Blizzard makes is a timer on the unit? The only advantage I see the timer providing is letting your opponent know how long it will take to obliterate your army.
While avilo's statement can come off as inflammatory, and I may have taken a different approach, it is hard to ignore the frustration Terran players have with the kneejerk reaction Blizzard has to this race compared to Protoss and Zerg.
There are several problems I have with this post, but I've got to run and it would take a lot of time to pick apart your post and find all the evidence that would back my argument up. However there's one point in particular that struck me as heinously wrong, and that's
And it is commonly accepted Terran already stuggles late game.
maxed terran mech and even scarier, ultimate sky terran armies are afaik widely considered incredibly difficult to beat and seemingly impossible to beat, respectively. for a quick reference to back me up, listen to SOTG's most recent episode where qxc says that if he gets a maxed mech army vs zerg he never loses, and if he gets maxed skyterran it's impossible to lose
Please note: i'm not saying lategame terran is imbalanced, that remains to be seen. I'm just saying that the way things seem right now, both terrans and zergs alike seem to think that it's pretty tough for zerg once terran gets those things. Hopefully we just haven't figured the game out yet, and it's very very new still and so many changes are happening all the time. And it was hard to get to a normal sort of midgame and normal endgame with the crazy aggression terrans were having success with earlygame, but with the new patches that changes a ton. So we'll see.
As a high masters mech Terran I've never won an engagement against a Zerg going Hydra/Roach/Viper while both fully maxed. In WoL max mech (ground) used to always win versus a maxed zerg (ground). But that has changed. Perhaps its my composition (more WIndow Mines?) - I've even spread my tanks out BW style in clumps of 3, but blinding cloud lasts way too long, not to mention abduct ability. This is then usually followed up by Swarm Hosts to contain then BL.
As for Terran air. I've seen 60 minute games of Thorzain versus Zerg and can see how that can work. It usually ends up with the zerg mining out their side and just banging their heads against the wall running into Window mines and BC's. But honestly what percent of games get to the 50 minute mark?
You should be watching this game then, MVP telling us that unsieged Tanks are actually really good vs. Roach/Hydra/Ultra/Viper.
Please note: i'm not saying lategame terran is imbalanced, that remains to be seen. I'm just saying that the way things seem right now, both terrans and zergs alike seem to think that it's pretty tough for zerg once terran gets those things.
I'd imagine late game TvZ will only get better for zerg. It will take zergs learning how to properly use Vipers though. Even today in the GSTL Ragnarok had pretty poor viper control in mass engagements and only really used them for fun (chain fungaling medivacs). He only used blinding cloud twice in a mass engagement and seemingly forget about them about 3/4 ways through his match vs MMA.
On February 23 2013 18:31 avilo wrote: No Terran player is going to argue btw guys, because this is how it works during beta:
Zerg players die from only building drones and queens, while complaining about anything from Terran on stream.
Blizzard sees this, they also see all the Protoss whining about "widow mine drops."
If any Terran *raises his hand* and is like, "eh...wait what? We're only nerfing Terran stuff that wasn't an issue in the first place?" they get labelled as a "whiner" by the Zerg / Protoss whiners.
All the attention lately is on Terran's only two new units, the hellbat and widow mine, and how they "MUST BE NERFED THEY'RE SO IMBA" after literally 2 weeks of new metagame usage of the hellbat.
Things ignored by the community (possibly blizzard? would hope not) :
-viper blinding cloud radius/duration -ultra buff vs bio -oracles vs all races bursting down workers -tvp early game being a cluster fuck
I cannot wait till people find out about the new Zerg abuse that will be shown soon - mass vipers + mass static defense with traditional broodlords+corruptor+infestor turtle mode.
As well as mass swarmhost + corruptor.
When this strategy comes out soon, it won't be deemed imbalanced (because it's Zerg) - people are instead going to say how fucking innovative it is and golf clap their hands without a second thought because right now whichever part of the community whines the loudest or whichever popular streamers do get the game changed for the worse.
I agreed with a lot of the hellbat nerfs, especially the cargo one. But double and triple nerfing/buffing units is a bit too much. And it historically only happens to Terran. I personally don't care if Terran is nerfed further, nor should any other Terran player. What would be nice though is that they were consistent across all 3 of the races with nerfs/buffs, instead of only nerfing Terran.
If you're going to nerf/buff something of one race, you have to do it across the board and look at all three races and what's possibly too strong or weak. Not to mention you get 10x better PR for it.
And Terrans will continue to not say shit here or anywhere else because of the backlash they get for actually having an opinion.
It would be nice if more Terran players had some balls.
I think this post had far too many unfair statements, that do a poor and misleading job of representing the community/situation. You make a few reasonable points maybe, but some lines are just flat out incorrect, and many are exaggerated, showing how 1-sided and skewed your perception is. This is common in a lot of your posts, and needs to stop.
Fact: Terran is the least played race: http://www.sc2ranks.com/stats/league/all/1/all Fact: Terran has the worst w/l ratio TvZ; moreso than any other race Fact: Terran hasn't won a GSL since the queen patch and a significant amount of Zerg began to dominate major EU and NA tournaments since the patch Fact: Blizzard admits to balance issues with the infestor but chose to address it in HoTS - 7 months later. Fact: Even Stephon, the 4 hotkey Code S player, admits Zerg is the best race: http://starcraftstalker.blogspot.com/2012/11/zerg-imba_12.html Fact (arguable): Terran was the least "improved" race in HoTS. Aside from the Window mine, no new units were introduced but "reworked" or improved. While P and T receive a whole host of T2 and T3 units: Tempest, Oracles, Swarm Hosts, Vipers. And it is commonly accepted Terran already stuggles late game. Fact: Taking some of these issues into account, Blizzard instituted two MAJOR nerfs to one of the new, core Terran units. No other race has seen such a drastic change so close to release. Many Protoss (myself admittedly, b/c I play T and P) see Prismatic alignment as way too powerful. But the only change Blizzard makes is a timer on the unit? The only advantage I see the timer providing is letting your opponent know how long it will take to obliterate your army.
While avilo's statement can come off as inflammatory, and I may have taken a different approach, it is hard to ignore the frustration Terran players have with the kneejerk reaction Blizzard has to this race compared to Protoss and Zerg.
There are several problems I have with this post, but I've got to run and it would take a lot of time to pick apart your post and find all the evidence that would back my argument up. However there's one point in particular that struck me as heinously wrong, and that's
And it is commonly accepted Terran already stuggles late game.
maxed terran mech and even scarier, ultimate sky terran armies are afaik widely considered incredibly difficult to beat and seemingly impossible to beat, respectively. for a quick reference to back me up, listen to SOTG's most recent episode where qxc says that if he gets a maxed mech army vs zerg he never loses, and if he gets maxed skyterran it's impossible to lose
Please note: i'm not saying lategame terran is imbalanced, that remains to be seen. I'm just saying that the way things seem right now, both terrans and zergs alike seem to think that it's pretty tough for zerg once terran gets those things. Hopefully we just haven't figured the game out yet, and it's very very new still and so many changes are happening all the time. And it was hard to get to a normal sort of midgame and normal endgame with the crazy aggression terrans were having success with earlygame, but with the new patches that changes a ton. So we'll see.
Don't open your eyes when you play against a well controlled skyprotoss w/ ht support. That will be significantly more one sided.
Do you have an inability to make ghosts? There goes the HT support. Ravens will rape anything that's grouped. Yamato cannon can rape anything that's not grouped.
Yeah as Zerg, i do have the inability to make ghosts.
@Zelniq
I also deal ok with tempests, however, vr + carriers+ timewarp + storm makes it way too hard to use hydras. Not sure if i should just max out on infestors and corruptors only.
You expect us to believe a 14.5 dps unit that moves at 2.81 (with upgrade) is the worst unit in the game. Either you have no idea how to optimize their damage output beyond a-move, you use them unescorted or both.
Well, Terrans are trying to sell a 35.6dps 550HP/3armor unit with a 300damage blast (with upgrade) which additionally can fly as bad unit.
You see how ridicolous such stuff sounds when you don't include how much those units cost or what they require? And you tell other people how immature their discussion style is...
I didn't believe you'd resort to lying, Big J. I'll try to be civil.
It should be read as:
Terrans are trying to sell a 35.6dps range 6, 550HP/3 armor unit with 300 damage blast (with upgrade) every 125 seconds, vulnerablility to feedback spell and which additionally can fly as bad unit.
In any case on 4 bases, cost is not an issue, production rate is.
Really hard to even know where to begin with responding to this bullshit. I know I shouldn't, it's not worth my time. But whatever, I'm in a good mood, can as well have some fun with this troll,
So whenever someone describes a unit he has to point out every stat the unit has and every spell interaction? Yeah, what a lyer I am not mentioning every freaking thing that is true for the BC. Pssst, before someone says that hydralisks don't get a dusk/dawn sight bonus you really should mention it... Oh too late. I found out that you didn't mention it. You lyer! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
And to your "cost is no issue, production rate is". Well, if cost is no issue and you have 50scvs (so building production rate is 50), why don't you build 50starports to get the same production rate as a zerg? Of course cost is THE issue. Z and P have more production, because their infrastructure COSTS less.
actually protoss infrastructure is more expensive.
factory is 150/100, 190/100 if you count for scv build time. Robo facility is 200/100. But its really only 150/100 because Terran have mules to offset scvs building, and the minerals don't actually go away.
a star port is also 150/100 I believe? Compared to a star gate bring 150/150. And how much is a fusion core? Fleet beacon is 300/200. An armory is 150/100 while a robotics bay is 200/200. And a ghost academy is 100/50 right? Vs a 100/200 templar archives, not to mention the need for a 150/100 twilight council. No need to mention barracks/gateway.
edit: as a sky toss versus zerg: I think allowing blinding cloud to hit air or affect casters would be a wonderful idea personally. Does anybody else share it? I think it would definitely help balance out pvz, and I don't think needing skytoss is how to do it.
You expect us to believe a 14.5 dps unit that moves at 2.81 (with upgrade) is the worst unit in the game. Either you have no idea how to optimize their damage output beyond a-move, you use them unescorted or both.
Well, Terrans are trying to sell a 35.6dps 550HP/3armor unit with a 300damage blast (with upgrade) which additionally can fly as bad unit.
You see how ridicolous such stuff sounds when you don't include how much those units cost or what they require? And you tell other people how immature their discussion style is...
I didn't believe you'd resort to lying, Big J. I'll try to be civil.
It should be read as:
Terrans are trying to sell a 35.6dps range 6, 550HP/3 armor unit with 300 damage blast (with upgrade) every 125 seconds, vulnerablility to feedback spell and which additionally can fly as bad unit.
In any case on 4 bases, cost is not an issue, production rate is.
Really hard to even know where to begin with responding to this bullshit. I know I shouldn't, it's not worth my time. But whatever, I'm in a good mood, can as well have some fun with this troll,
So whenever someone describes a unit he has to point out every stat the unit has and every spell interaction? Yeah, what a lyer I am not mentioning every freaking thing that is true for the BC. Pssst, before someone says that hydralisks don't get a dusk/dawn sight bonus you really should mention it... Oh too late. I found out that you didn't mention it. You lyer! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
And to your "cost is no issue, production rate is". Well, if cost is no issue and you have 50scvs (so building production rate is 50), why don't you build 50starports to get the same production rate as a zerg? Of course cost is THE issue. Z and P have more production, because their infrastructure COSTS less.
actually protoss infrastructure is more expensive.
factory is 150/100, 190/100 if you count for scv build time. Robo facility is 200/100. But its really only 150/100 because Terran have mules to offset scvs building, and the minerals don't actually go away.
a star port is also 150/100 I believe? Compared to a star gate bring 150/150. And how much is a fusion core? Fleet beacon is 300/200. An armory is 150/100 while a robotics bay is 200/200. And a ghost academy is 100/50 right? Vs a 100/200 templar archives, not to mention the need for a 150/100 twilight council. No need to mention barracks/gateway.
edit: as a sky toss versus zerg: I think allowing blinding cloud to hit air or affect casters would be a wonderful idea personally. Does anybody else share it? I think it would definitely help balance out pvz, and I don't think needing skytoss is how to do it.
Addons. And yes, fleet beacon has always been ridiculously expensive, I don't know what Blizzard was thinking with that one. They could make it 150/150, wouldn't change a damn thing.
On February 23 2013 18:31 avilo wrote: No Terran player is going to argue btw guys, because this is how it works during beta:
Zerg players die from only building drones and queens, while complaining about anything from Terran on stream.
Blizzard sees this, they also see all the Protoss whining about "widow mine drops."
If any Terran *raises his hand* and is like, "eh...wait what? We're only nerfing Terran stuff that wasn't an issue in the first place?" they get labelled as a "whiner" by the Zerg / Protoss whiners.
All the attention lately is on Terran's only two new units, the hellbat and widow mine, and how they "MUST BE NERFED THEY'RE SO IMBA" after literally 2 weeks of new metagame usage of the hellbat.
Things ignored by the community (possibly blizzard? would hope not) :
-viper blinding cloud radius/duration -ultra buff vs bio -oracles vs all races bursting down workers -tvp early game being a cluster fuck
I cannot wait till people find out about the new Zerg abuse that will be shown soon - mass vipers + mass static defense with traditional broodlords+corruptor+infestor turtle mode.
As well as mass swarmhost + corruptor.
When this strategy comes out soon, it won't be deemed imbalanced (because it's Zerg) - people are instead going to say how fucking innovative it is and golf clap their hands without a second thought because right now whichever part of the community whines the loudest or whichever popular streamers do get the game changed for the worse.
I agreed with a lot of the hellbat nerfs, especially the cargo one. But double and triple nerfing/buffing units is a bit too much. And it historically only happens to Terran. I personally don't care if Terran is nerfed further, nor should any other Terran player. What would be nice though is that they were consistent across all 3 of the races with nerfs/buffs, instead of only nerfing Terran.
If you're going to nerf/buff something of one race, you have to do it across the board and look at all three races and what's possibly too strong or weak. Not to mention you get 10x better PR for it.
And Terrans will continue to not say shit here or anywhere else because of the backlash they get for actually having an opinion.
It would be nice if more Terran players had some balls.
I think this post had far too many unfair statements, that do a poor and misleading job of representing the community/situation. You make a few reasonable points maybe, but some lines are just flat out incorrect, and many are exaggerated, showing how 1-sided and skewed your perception is. This is common in a lot of your posts, and needs to stop.
Fact: Terran is the least played race: http://www.sc2ranks.com/stats/league/all/1/all Fact: Terran has the worst w/l ratio TvZ; moreso than any other race Fact: Terran hasn't won a GSL since the queen patch and a significant amount of Zerg began to dominate major EU and NA tournaments since the patch Fact: Blizzard admits to balance issues with the infestor but chose to address it in HoTS - 7 months later. Fact: Even Stephon, the 4 hotkey Code S player, admits Zerg is the best race: http://starcraftstalker.blogspot.com/2012/11/zerg-imba_12.html Fact (arguable): Terran was the least "improved" race in HoTS. Aside from the Window mine, no new units were introduced but "reworked" or improved. While P and T receive a whole host of T2 and T3 units: Tempest, Oracles, Swarm Hosts, Vipers. And it is commonly accepted Terran already stuggles late game. Fact: Taking some of these issues into account, Blizzard instituted two MAJOR nerfs to one of the new, core Terran units. No other race has seen such a drastic change so close to release. Many Protoss (myself admittedly, b/c I play T and P) see Prismatic alignment as way too powerful. But the only change Blizzard makes is a timer on the unit? The only advantage I see the timer providing is letting your opponent know how long it will take to obliterate your army.
While avilo's statement can come off as inflammatory, and I may have taken a different approach, it is hard to ignore the frustration Terran players have with the kneejerk reaction Blizzard has to this race compared to Protoss and Zerg.
There are several problems I have with this post, but I've got to run and it would take a lot of time to pick apart your post and find all the evidence that would back my argument up. However there's one point in particular that struck me as heinously wrong, and that's
And it is commonly accepted Terran already stuggles late game.
maxed terran mech and even scarier, ultimate sky terran armies are afaik widely considered incredibly difficult to beat and seemingly impossible to beat, respectively. for a quick reference to back me up, listen to SOTG's most recent episode where qxc says that if he gets a maxed mech army vs zerg he never loses, and if he gets maxed skyterran it's impossible to lose
Please note: i'm not saying lategame terran is imbalanced, that remains to be seen. I'm just saying that the way things seem right now, both terrans and zergs alike seem to think that it's pretty tough for zerg once terran gets those things. Hopefully we just haven't figured the game out yet, and it's very very new still and so many changes are happening all the time. And it was hard to get to a normal sort of midgame and normal endgame with the crazy aggression terrans were having success with earlygame, but with the new patches that changes a ton. So we'll see.
As a high masters mech Terran I've never won an engagement against a Zerg going Hydra/Roach/Viper while both fully maxed. In WoL max mech (ground) used to always win versus a maxed zerg (ground). But that has changed. Perhaps its my composition (more WIndow Mines?) - I've even spread my tanks out BW style in clumps of 3, but blinding cloud lasts way too long, not to mention abduct ability. This is then usually followed up by Swarm Hosts to contain then BL.
As for Terran air. I've seen 60 minute games of Thorzain versus Zerg and can see how that can work. It usually ends up with the zerg mining out their side and just banging their heads against the wall running into Window mines and BC's. But honestly what percent of games get to the 50 minute mark?
You should be watching this game then, MVP telling us that unsieged Tanks are actually really good vs. Roach/Hydra/Ultra/Viper.
Not trying to take anything away from MVP, but Curious had the worst engagement i've seen in a while. Focus on 20:15+. He had a much smaller army and fought in a narrow choke while MVP had a perfect concave of tanks, Also, if you've noticed, the ultras were at the back doing absolutely nothing. Things would be really different if he used fungal growth on those tanks while they were still under the cloud and the ultras were actually in front.
EPT
