The Intel Extreme Masters World Championship will feature the first ever global StarCraft II: Heart of the Swarm tournament.
On March 5-9 the world's best StarCraft II players will meet at CeBIT in Hanover, Germany to compete in the $100,000 final to the Intel Extreme Masters season, one week before the official release of StarCraft II: Heart of the Swarm.
The 24 participants have qualified for the event through our stops all over the globe within the past months. Fans all over the world will be able to enjoy their heroes bring new strategies to the battlefield, as well as a broadcast with the new spectator UI. Most importantly, the integrity of the tournament will be protected by the resume from replay function.
Over its history, the Intel Extreme Masters World Championship at CeBIT has always been a celebration of Blizzard's major esports titles, with Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne, World of Warcraft and StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty tournaments. Thanks to Blizzard, CeBIT on March 5-9 will be the only place in the world where StarCraft II: Heart of the Swarm will be played.
The event will take place three days before the European release of StarCraft II: Heart of the Swarm, that will go along with a launch party taking place in Versailles, France on the evening of March 11, as well as other cities across the globe.
These launch parties will allow visitors to meet famous players, commentators and the developers of the game and Blizzard Europe has already made arrangements to invite the Intel Extreme Masters World Champion to the launch party in Versailles, France.
On February 16 2013 00:57 StarVe wrote: How awful, what the fuck is that move?
Kas/Snute are not the only ones.
They didn't tell the players before.
We indicated the possibility to players, however the final confirmation that this is feasible was received recently. It is a very non standard situation for Blizzard since they had never done anything like it before with an outside partner. Plus pulling this off on Blizzard's side is, from what I know, technically and procedurally a big task (and I'm thankful they made it happen).
We indicated the possibility to players, however the final confirmation that this is feasible was received recently. It is a very non standard situation for Blizzard since they had never done anything like it before with an outside partner. Plus pulling this off on Blizzard's side is, from what I know, technically and procedurally a big task (and I'm thankful they made it happen).
So it's also quite an experimental thing and you can't really be sure if Blizzard can pull this off smoothly on their side? And you don't know if all the players can practice it after the beta shuts down. Which could have players go the week prior to the tournament without practicing the game that is played there, when some players would need to start practicing hardcore now because they haven't touched HotS at all.
It is Blizzard we're talking about when it comes to pulling this off smoothly. We'll be playing on a European HotS server as well.
We indicated the possibility to players, however the final confirmation that this is feasible was received recently. It is a very non standard situation for Blizzard since they had never done anything like it before with an outside partner. Plus pulling this off on Blizzard's side is, from what I know, technically and procedurally a big task (and I'm thankful they made it happen).
So it's also quite an experimental thing and you can't really be sure if Blizzard can pull this off smoothly on their side? And you don't know if all the players can practice it after the beta shuts down. Which could have players go the week prior to the tournament without practicing the game that is played there, when some players would need to start practicing hardcore now because they haven't touched HotS at all.
It is Blizzard we're talking about when it comes to pulling this off smoothly. We'll be playing on a European HotS server as well.
This sucks so bad for the players who had practiced wol for all this time. I have bought 2 iem premium tickets and a benq monitor to support you guys, but this is just a dick move. Will not watch it.
I appreciate the support and I hope you'll watch us in the future. This wasn't a simple decision, be sure of that.
Post by LiquidNazgul
On February 16 2013 02:34 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: Whether you agree or disagree with the decision I hope you take into account that people always get hurt in this situation. It is unavoidable for people not to get hurt. So if you are saying "this hurts the people who were practicing WoL" that is not a good enough motivation by itself. If this had been a WoL tournament it hurts every player in this tournament by being behind in skill for HotS when all the major tournaments start there. This is also what will happen to the players qualified to IPL.
There is a big reason to keep it WoL; having the same game your players qualified for obviously makes a lot of sense from a competitive perspective. However, that is not the end all be all of reasons. This can be shown by simply looking at a situation where HotS comes out after 3 months into an IEM year. Would you want them to have the finals 9 months later in WoL? I'm sure every person posting in this thread would consider that the wrong move too. This indicates that for all of you out there it is possible to have reasons that outweigh the competitive consistency reasoning.
I don't particularly care, and I told Carmac that we would respect his decision either way. I can see the arguments on both sides here and don't really see it as a right or wrong situation. Financially IEM thinks they need this and that WoL may not satisfy their sponsors with the numbers it will draw. Competitively you give up consistency from qualifiers to finals, which is a big deal to give up as a legitimate sport. On the other hand you also gain the players not starting behind in the HotS scene because of making them commit to an old game.
On February 16 2013 00:15 saksy2 wrote: I bet the pros that had been practicing their arse off thinking it was WoL feel bad now
They probably told the players before. Would be a really bad not to. Also im curious how the players will prepare considering that the beta is down arround that time.
On February 16 2013 00:15 saksy2 wrote: I bet the pros that had been practicing their arse off thinking it was WoL feel bad now
They probably told the players before. Would be a really bad not to. Also im curious how the players will prepare considering that the beta is down arround that time.
Blizzard will keep up private servers for tournaments and stuff, though I'm confused how players would be able to prepare. It's kind of odd.
On February 16 2013 00:15 saksy2 wrote: I bet the pros that had been practicing their arse off thinking it was WoL feel bad now
They probably told the players before. Would be a really bad not to. Also im curious how the players will prepare considering that the beta is down arround that time.
It is important to note that we will continue to operate a private beta test until Heart of the Swarm goes live on March 12. We will be working with our eSports partners to ensure that they are able to feature the new expansion in professional StarCraft II matches after March 1.
On February 16 2013 00:15 saksy2 wrote: I bet the pros that had been practicing their arse off thinking it was WoL feel bad now
They probably told the players before. Would be a really bad not to. Also im curious how the players will prepare considering that the beta is down arround that time.
At least Snute and Kas has played countless hours of WoL lately in preparation for a WoL-tournament
As the best broodlord pusher in the game, I hope VortiX will manage to make them work in HotS as well. Gotta transfer those broodlord micro skills, like MKP did for his marauder pick-up micro, revamped into hellbat pick-up micro.
On February 16 2013 00:15 saksy2 wrote: I bet the pros that had been practicing their arse off thinking it was WoL feel bad now
They probably told the players before. Would be a really bad not to. Also im curious how the players will prepare considering that the beta is down arround that time.
Reading the tweets from some of them not too long ago, they did not know.
I don't know, but even if a lot of them were "fine" with it, whatever he defines as fine, I still don't think it's good. Lemme copypaste my reddit post:
This seems like a terrible, terrible idea to me, and I strongly dislike the move.
As Carmac said, they are not even sure if players can practice and some haven't even touched HotS because IEM didn't announce shit so far, and nothing pointed towards the tournament being HotS after a whole season of WoL with the finals being before release.
Being the first in something isn't always worthwhile if it makes for a terrible experience.
After watching MLG showdowns for two weeks, I couldn't be less excited for a tournament with players who might have practiced even less HotS than players in the MLG event.
It could have been a great sendoff for WoL with players who are still very much the best in that (balanced) game. Now it's a random assembly of players who can be everything from top players in HotS to terrible players in HotS which makes for a very lopsided tournament, coupled with an imbalanced game it looks like the formula to disappointment.
We indicated the possibility to players, however the final confirmation that this is feasible was received recently. It is a very non standard situation for Blizzard since they had never done anything like it before with an outside partner. Plus pulling this off on Blizzard's side is, from what I know, technically and procedurally a big task (and I'm thankful they made it happen).
We indicated the possibility to players, however the final confirmation that this is feasible was received recently. It is a very non standard situation for Blizzard since they had never done anything like it before with an outside partner. Plus pulling this off on Blizzard's side is, from what I know, technically and procedurally a big task (and I'm thankful they made it happen).
So it's also quite an experimental thing and you can't really be sure if Blizzard can pull this off smoothly on their side? And you don't know if all the players can practice it after the beta shuts down. Which could have players go the week prior to the tournament without practicing the game that is played there, when some players would need to start practicing hardcore now because they haven't touched HotS at all.
i didnt get it all after a whole season of wol they change for the final event. I think they hope to get more viewers with hots but honestly for me it is not fun watching hots right now
We indicated the possibility to players, however the final confirmation that this is feasible was received recently. It is a very non standard situation for Blizzard since they had never done anything like it before with an outside partner. Plus pulling this off on Blizzard's side is, from what I know, technically and procedurally a big task (and I'm thankful they made it happen).
So it's also quite an experimental thing and you can't really be sure if Blizzard can pull this off smoothly on their side? And you don't know if all the players can practice it after the beta shuts down. Which could have players go the week prior to the tournament without practicing the game that is played there, when some players would need to start practicing hardcore now because they haven't touched HotS at all.
It is Blizzard we're talking about when it comes to pulling this off smoothly. We'll be playing on a European HotS server as well.
They told me around 1 week ago, also they are allowing the qualified players + selected practice partners to keep playing HOTS even after the beta ends at the end of this month.
Really dislike the move. Some players have been practicing WoL in preparation for this tournament and now they have less than month to switch games. And besides having HotS finals to a WoL season I very much doubt the game quality will be any good. If MLG showmatches are any indication the whole event will only hurt viewership of HotS as people familiar will current imbalances abuse them all the way to victory.
We indicated the possibility to players, however the final confirmation that this is feasible was received recently. It is a very non standard situation for Blizzard since they had never done anything like it before with an outside partner. Plus pulling this off on Blizzard's side is, from what I know, technically and procedurally a big task (and I'm thankful they made it happen).
So it's also quite an experimental thing and you can't really be sure if Blizzard can pull this off smoothly on their side? And you don't know if all the players can practice it after the beta shuts down. Which could have players go the week prior to the tournament without practicing the game that is played there, when some players would need to start practicing hardcore now because they haven't touched HotS at all.
It is Blizzard we're talking about when it comes to pulling this off smoothly. We'll be playing on a European HotS server as well.
I'd give them the benefit of the doubt there, just a tad worried since they have a lot on their plate in these times with all the launch event showmatches and the release itself. Not every Blizz game launch has been smooth, but I expect this to go over well.
I'm more sad that this basically invalidates the stacked player field because you make them play a different game than the one they earned their right to participate in this tournament in.
I was excited for a gathering of the most brilliant minds that played SC2 in IEM this season. Now I won't see the culmination of the season but something entirely different with completely different balance, presumably glaring imbalance and a bunch of lame exploits that might lead to poor games, especially since the amount of HotS practice the players got in varies like nothing has ever varied before.
That would have been cool for the start of the season in my opinion, but not as the epic grand finale. WoL actually is more balanced than it ever was and pretty fucking fun to watch right now, bringing a lot of top players together to play would have produced awesomeness.
On the one hand I think it's an exciting and audacious move, on the other hand however I am not sure HotS will give as many awesome games as the last couple of weeks WoL could - it's just as balanced now as it will ever get. Also the thing with the players being uninformed/not informed properly seems kind of odd.
I know it sucks for some players and it could have been announced earlier, but most of them wanted hots and stopped playing wol anyways. It's the correct decision and I can't wait to see what the players come up with as they have at least 2 weeks to train and every pro played hots a bit by now. It also creates a lot of hype for the Hots release and it is about fucking time for the first major Hots tournament.
This IEM WC will be super epic, thanks ESL, IEM and Blizzard for making this possible pre release.
At the end of the day being the first Heart of the Swarm tournament will bring IEM more viewers and attention and that is their goal, even if it means games that aren't as " good ".
On February 16 2013 01:31 pmp10 wrote: If MLG showmatches are any indication the whole event will only hurt viewership of HotS as people familiar will current imbalances abuse them all the way to victory.
Ok. You must be joking. They switch to hots because they want people to watch the event and it is a new game. Wol is over and hardly no one wants to watch it anymore except maybe gsl.
On February 16 2013 01:31 pmp10 wrote: If MLG showmatches are any indication the whole event will only hurt viewership of HotS as people familiar will current imbalances abuse them all the way to victory.
Ok. You must be joking. They switch to hots because they want people to watch the event and it is a new game. Wol is over and hardly no one wants watch it anymore except maybe gsl.
Exactly. I don't care about WoL anymore except GSL. All I watch is HotS and all I want to see as a spectator is HotS. Thank you Carmac! This is a great move imho.
can you guys stop bitching? if they don't feel comfortable playing HOTS, then they don't have to participate, no one is forcing them. however, it is a good opportunity to try.
On February 16 2013 01:31 pmp10 wrote: If MLG showmatches are any indication the whole event will only hurt viewership of HotS as people familiar will current imbalances abuse them all the way to victory.
Ok. You must be joking. They switch to hots because they want people to watch the event and it is a new game. Wol is over and hardly no one wants watch it anymore except maybe gsl.
I'm not. If the game quality is poor or worse the whole tournament becomes nothing but roach/void-ray/hellbat all-ins then the whole spectator prospects of HotS gets damaged. That has the potential to hurt much more than IEM.
On February 16 2013 02:14 BlackGosu wrote: can you guys stop bitching? if they don't feel comfortable playing HOTS, then they don't have to participate, no one is forcing them. however, it is a good opportunity to try.
This is not an open tournament, they all qualified by playing WoL events. I'm not saying this is a bad choice by IEM but it is certainly a bit weird for the players that prepared primarily for a WoL event.
We indicated the possibility to players, however the final confirmation that this is feasible was received recently. It is a very non standard situation for Blizzard since they had never done anything like it before with an outside partner. Plus pulling this off on Blizzard's side is, from what I know, technically and procedurally a big task (and I'm thankful they made it happen).
So it's also quite an experimental thing and you can't really be sure if Blizzard can pull this off smoothly on their side? And you don't know if all the players can practice it after the beta shuts down. Which could have players go the week prior to the tournament without practicing the game that is played there, when some players would need to start practicing hardcore now because they haven't touched HotS at all.
It is Blizzard we're talking about when it comes to pulling this off smoothly. We'll be playing on a European HotS server as well.
This sucks so bad for the players who had practiced wol for all this time. I have bought 2 iem premium tickets and a benq monitor to support you guys, but this is just a dick move. Will not watch it.
On February 16 2013 02:15 pmp10 wrote: If the game quality is poor or worse the whole tournament becomes nothing but roach/void-ray/hellbat all-ins then the whole spectator prospects of HotS gets damaged. That has the potential to hurt much more than IEM.
You can enjoy your 45 min broodlord fight in wol. Doesnt matter how they play in hots it will be very exciting. There are zero negative aspect for this change. I really liked early stages of wol too. Aggressive play is fine. Anything is better that nowadays when its almost only boring turtle macro fests.
On February 16 2013 02:14 BlackGosu wrote: can you guys stop bitching? if they don't feel comfortable playing HOTS, then they don't have to participate, no one is forcing them. however, it is a good opportunity to try.
This is not an open tournament, they all qualified by playing WoL events. I'm not saying this is a bad choice by IEM but it is certainly a bit weird for the players that prepared primarily for a WoL event.
To be fair, I think players just need to adjust. Honestly, it is a more 'extreme' example of playing after a patch which shifts the meta game (TvZ after Queen/OL patch?). Terran players might have been practicing their hellion openings to find out that it no longer works.
Obviously, in terms of 'fairness' and game play. We should probably stop competitive tournaments for 2-3 months so all the players can adjust. But in the real world, this just ain't going to happen.
On February 16 2013 01:31 pmp10 wrote: If MLG showmatches are any indication the whole event will only hurt viewership of HotS as people familiar will current imbalances abuse them all the way to victory.
Ok. You must be joking. They switch to hots because they want people to watch the event and it is a new game. Wol is over and hardly no one wants watch it anymore except maybe gsl.
I'm not. If the game quality is poor or worse the whole tournament becomes nothing but roach/void-ray/hellbat all-ins then the whole spectator prospects of HotS gets damaged. That has the potential to hurt much more than IEM.
I am pretty sure IEM has taken this into account and find that the risk is worth it. Sure, some of the 'purists' might not watch but this is no different from the BW to SC2 switch. I am sure PL lost fans because they switched to SC2 .
Wonder if players not competing at CeBIT but at the very early HotS tournaments after release (such as MLG Winter) will also have access to practice HotS on a private server while general beta access comes to a close two weeks before launch.
...I was really hoping for some awesome WoL action to finish off the IEM season seeing as how all the qualifiers were in WoL. Ah well It should be awesome to watch regardless- sucks big time for the players though =(
We indicated the possibility to players, however the final confirmation that this is feasible was received recently. It is a very non standard situation for Blizzard since they had never done anything like it before with an outside partner. Plus pulling this off on Blizzard's side is, from what I know, technically and procedurally a big task (and I'm thankful they made it happen).
So it's also quite an experimental thing and you can't really be sure if Blizzard can pull this off smoothly on their side? And you don't know if all the players can practice it after the beta shuts down. Which could have players go the week prior to the tournament without practicing the game that is played there, when some players would need to start practicing hardcore now because they haven't touched HotS at all.
It is Blizzard we're talking about when it comes to pulling this off smoothly. We'll be playing on a European HotS server as well.
This sucks so bad for the players who had practiced wol for all this time. I have bought 2 iem premium tickets and a benq monitor to support you guys, but this is just a dick move. Will not watch it.
I appreciate the support and I hope you'll watch us in the future. This wasn't a simple decision, be sure of that.
Whether you agree or disagree with the decision I hope you take into account that people always get hurt in this situation. It is unavoidable for people not to get hurt. So if you are saying "this hurts the people who were practicing WoL" that is not a good enough motivation by itself. If this had been a WoL tournament it hurts every player in this tournament by being behind in skill for HotS when all the major tournaments start there. This is also what will happen to the players qualified to IPL.
There is a big reason to keep it WoL; having the same game your players qualified for obviously makes a lot of sense from a competitive perspective. However, that is not the end all be all of reasons. This can be shown by simply looking at a situation where HotS comes out after 3 months into an IEM year. Would you want them to have the finals 9 months later in WoL? I'm sure every person posting in this thread would consider that the wrong move too. This indicates that for all of you out there it is possible to have reasons that outweigh the competitive consistency reasoning.
I don't particularly care, and I told Carmac that we would respect his decision either way. I can see the arguments on both sides here and don't really see it as a right or wrong situation. Financially IEM thinks they need this and that WoL may not satisfy their sponsors with the numbers it will draw. Competitively you give up consistency from qualifiers to finals, which is a big deal to give up as a legitimate sport. On the other hand you also gain the players not starting behind in the HotS scene because of making them commit to an old game.
On February 16 2013 02:34 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: Whether you agree or disagree with the decision I hope you take into account that people always get hurt in this situation. It is unavoidable for people not to get hurt. So if you are saying "this hurts the people who were practicing WoL" that is not a good enough motivation by itself. If this had been a WoL tournament it hurts every player in this tournament by being behind in skill for HotS when all the major tournaments start there. This is also what will happen to the players qualified to IPL.
Wait. Wasn't IPL hosting 2 separate tournaments and qualifiers for HotS and WoL?
On the one hand i agree it feels a little bit unfair that it's HotS for the players who are good at WoL and have qualified through playing WoL and haven't played much HotS.
On the other hand it's good that players don't have to play WoL only for this tournament. Another thing is that they're most likely getting more viewers like this, especially because i think this way the koreans are actually much worse off, but we'll see. ^^
As long as the games are good im happy While I can see how this is a bit inconsiderate of the players if they didnt know, if Carmac says they were aware of the possibility for sometime then I don't really see the problem.
Leave it to Nazgul to bring in the rational-thinking
At the end of the day, us viewers are still going to get an interesting tournament to watch. It might be crazy and cheesy, but let's wait and find out.
We indicated the possibility to players, however the final confirmation that this is feasible was received recently. It is a very non standard situation for Blizzard since they had never done anything like it before with an outside partner. Plus pulling this off on Blizzard's side is, from what I know, technically and procedurally a big task (and I'm thankful they made it happen).
So it's also quite an experimental thing and you can't really be sure if Blizzard can pull this off smoothly on their side? And you don't know if all the players can practice it after the beta shuts down. Which could have players go the week prior to the tournament without practicing the game that is played there, when some players would need to start practicing hardcore now because they haven't touched HotS at all.
It is Blizzard we're talking about when it comes to pulling this off smoothly. We'll be playing on a European HotS server as well.
This sucks so bad for the players who had practiced wol for all this time. I have bought 2 iem premium tickets and a benq monitor to support you guys, but this is just a dick move. Will not watch it.
I appreciate the support and I hope you'll watch us in the future. This wasn't a simple decision, be sure of that.
I understand that this is a much better business decision since it is going to bring more viewers and push the sc2 scene forward. However this must be an exception. Players entertain by competing at the highest level, frankly Wol would have had a higher level of competitiveness than hots due to the stable metagame. This is also the reason why people will never worship lol/dota2 players the way our community worships nestea for example due to new heroes being brought in and the metagame changing. Not saying they are inferior, Iv played mobas as well and their passion for esports is just the same as ours.
On February 16 2013 02:34 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: Whether you agree or disagree with the decision I hope you take into account that people always get hurt in this situation. It is unavoidable for people not to get hurt. So if you are saying "this hurts the people who were practicing WoL" that is not a good enough motivation by itself. If this had been a WoL tournament it hurts every player in this tournament by being behind in skill for HotS when all the major tournaments start there. This is also what will happen to the players qualified to IPL.
While everyone gets hurt in every situation, a lot of the damage could have been avoided.
I have seen several players say on their streams that they still practice WoL because of the tournaments that remain, but would rather switch to HoTS. I would think a large part of this is due to IEM (and some due to IPL, but they have an alternative HoTS tournament and I don't think all euros will go there). All that practice time has practically been wasted.
If IEM felt they wanted to go the HoTS route, which is quite understandable, then they really should have announced it much earlier so people weren't under any false impressions or wasted their time. Maybe IEM realized too late that WoL would be the wrong choice, but then that is on them. It seems all other major players in the industry knew long ago that HoTS would be the way to go.
By doing the switch now they are saying screw the players who actually held back and still played WoL solely for our sake, let's give the advantage to the people who didn't bother doing that. I don't think IEM had malicious intent, but it caused damage nonetheless and a far better option would be to insist it was HoTS all along.
Actually i don't care whether its gonna be WoL or HotS, still its starcraft, same game we love. The only thing that could be done better is decision time, cause decision was a little bit too late for those who were practicing hard only Wings Of Liberty : )
On February 16 2013 02:34 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: Whether you agree or disagree with the decision I hope you take into account that people always get hurt in this situation. It is unavoidable for people not to get hurt. So if you are saying "this hurts the people who were practicing WoL" that is not a good enough motivation by itself. If this had been a WoL tournament it hurts every player in this tournament by being behind in skill for HotS when all the major tournaments start there. This is also what will happen to the players qualified to IPL.
While everyone gets hurt in every situation, a lot of the damage could have been avoided.
I have seen several players say on their streams that they still practice WoL because of the tournaments that remain, but would rather switch to HoTS. I would think a large part of this is due to IEM (and some due to IPL, but they have an alternative HoTS tournament and I don't think all euros will go there). All that practice time has practically been wasted.
If IEM felt they wanted to go the HoTS route, which is quite understandable, then they really should have announced it much earlier so people weren't under any false impressions or wasted their time. Maybe IEM realized too late that WoL would be the wrong choice, but then that is on them. It seems all other major players in the industry knew long ago that HoTS would be the way to go.
By doing the switch now they are saying screw the players who actually held back and still played WoL solely for our sake, let's give the advantage to the people who didn't bother doing that. I don't think IEM had malicious intent, but it caused damage nonetheless and a far better option would be to insist it was HoTS all along.
But they didn't have word/know from Blizzard if Blizzard would be able to accomidate a HoTS tournament. How could they IEM confirm something that Blizzard couldn't? Could everyone here have worked faster to try to get the info out sooner? Perhaps, but I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt and say everyone worked about as fast as they could to get this done.
it's not good for the competition and stuffs but at this point, at this boring stale of metagame, I doubt anyone cares. Time to have some fun, the most quality WoL content has already been covered by Code S
On one hand I'll be more excited for a hots iem wc than I would've been for a wol one, but I still think this is a terrible idea. Not mainly because gameplay will be bad/imbalanced/gimmicky/luck-based due to the game being very new and not so well discovered, it will still be very interesting to see. However this is basically the equivalent of running football qualifiers and then when the teams get to the world championship IT'S BASKETBALL - SURPRISE! On top of that it would've been much cooler to have the last wol event take place only a few days before hots release and then as soon as the game releases we get the first hots event in mlg, but I don't know. I suppose IEM is counting on getting a higher viewer count with a hots tournament because people are tired of wol or whatever.
games are going to be less standardized than we are used to from wol. But playing hots on the highest level is the only way to establish some sort of standard play. Its not good for the players if they cant prepare for hots because they have to play a wol tournament a few days before release.
On February 16 2013 02:34 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: Whether you agree or disagree with the decision I hope you take into account that people always get hurt in this situation. It is unavoidable for people not to get hurt. So if you are saying "this hurts the people who were practicing WoL" that is not a good enough motivation by itself. If this had been a WoL tournament it hurts every player in this tournament by being behind in skill for HotS when all the major tournaments start there. This is also what will happen to the players qualified to IPL.
There is a big reason to keep it WoL; having the same game your players qualified for obviously makes a lot of sense from a competitive perspective. However, that is not the end all be all of reasons. This can be shown by simply looking at a situation where HotS comes out after 3 months into an IEM year. Would you want them to have the finals 9 months later in WoL? I'm sure every person posting in this thread would consider that the wrong move too. This indicates that for all of you out there it is possible to have reasons that outweigh the competitive consistency reasoning.
I don't particularly care, and I told Carmac that we would respect his decision either way. I can see the arguments on both sides here and don't really see it as a right or wrong situation. Financially IEM thinks they need this and that WoL may not satisfy their sponsors with the numbers it will draw. Competitively you give up consistency from qualifiers to finals, which is a big deal to give up as a legitimate sport. On the other hand you also gain the players not starting behind in the HotS scene because of making them commit to an old game.
Well, I am not sure the qualifier argument works. Unless GSL will hold Open Seasons for HoTS or make big changes to the current format. You could argue that the qualifiers for next season's Code S (HoTS) will be based on WoL. Current Code A and top 8 Code S is WoL (not sure about U&D). Even if U&D is HoTS, player 'qualified' for U&D via WoL.
Remember, Jangbi and Fantasy qualified for SC2 OSL via BW OSL.
On February 16 2013 03:05 Azurues wrote: MVP really going?
might not now since it's HoTs possibly?
He's also doing promotion for Intel at Cebit, NesTea is going, too, as far as I know.
On February 16 2013 03:25 vthree wrote:
Well, I am not sure the qualifier argument works. Unless GSL will hold Open Seasons for HoTS or make big changes to the current format. You could argue that the qualifiers for next season's Code S (HoTS) will be based on WoL. Current Code A and top 8 Code S is WoL (not sure about U&D). Even if U&D is HoTS, player 'qualified' for U&D via WoL.
Remember, Jangbi and Fantasy qualified for SC2 OSL via BW OSL.
And we saw how well that worked out...
The GSL argument is shaky imho, they've always done their tournaments based on the previous seasons.IEM has completely separate seasons, only consistent within the season itself and now that consistency is broken.
This is like they are doing the Code S group stages in WoL and the RO8 upwards in HotS.
Even Proleague will have a break after this last WoL round so players can prepare for HotS, they're not switching during rounds or anything, they learned their lesson.
This feels a bit like the hybrid Proleague, some players specialized in the old game, some maybe specialized in the new game. HotS trained players will dominate, players who were doing well in their scenes in SC2 until the last moment will be disadvantaged because it was still worth it for them to practice WoL and play WoL tournaments. LucifroN for example is on a roll in WoL at the moment and I'd have loved to see how he would do at this IEM after going full time and having gotten better and better in the last few weeks.
PartinG and MC are still in GSL and need to practice WoL, no matter if IEM switches or not. They're still good, but it doesn't help them. VortiX said the days left to IEM were too short to practice HotS enough.
There can still be good games, but it will be different.
To me this makes it feel more like an exhibition match, not like a $100,000.tournament. Kinda like Katowice was the real finals.
Of course, as Nazgul said, someone will always be hurt, but I still can't brin myself to agree with the decision.
I think Snute said during his stream few days ago that it is still the same mistakes you make regardless of the game. And of course HotS is not a completely different game. I kinda like the idea that all the "immortal allins" are not that easily readible from the timings of certain buildings or upgrades etc. Its nice to see how these talented players, like Snute, react to situations in a somewhat fresh game.
Hmm this is kinda weird, I still think PartinG has a good shot (:D) and we'll be seeing great games. Actually first esports event I will be attending, really hope the players are content with this decision.
On February 16 2013 03:25 vthree wrote: Remember, Jangbi and Fantasy qualified for SC2 OSL via BW OSL.
And we saw how well that worked out...
The GSL argument is shaky imho, they've always done their tournaments based on the previous seasons.IEM has completely separate seasons, only consistent within the season itself and now that consistency is broken.
This is like they are doing the Code S group stages in WoL and the RO8 upwards in HotS.
Even Proleague will have a break after this last WoL round so players can prepare for HotS, they're not switching during rounds or anything, they learned their lesson.
This feels a bit like the hybrid Proleague, some players specialized in the old game, some maybe specialized in the new game. HotS trained players will dominate, players who were doing well in their scenes in SC2 until the last moment will be disadvantaged because it was still worth it for them to practice WoL and play WoL tournaments. LucifroN for example is on a roll in WoL at the moment and I'd have loved to see how he would do at this IEM after going full time and having gotten better and better in the last few weeks.
PartinG and MC are still in GSL and need to practice WoL, no matter if IEM switches or not. They're still good, but it doesn't help them. VortiX said the days left to IEM were too short to practice HotS enough.
There can still be good games, but it will be different.
To me this makes it feel more like an exhibition match, not like a $100,000.tournament. Kinda like Katowice was the real finals.
Obviously, the situation is wierd due to expansion.
But I am not sure why you don't think the GSL comparison works.
IEM World Champion (HoTS) <==> IEM World Championship Qualifier which were point from IEM events (WoL)
GSL 2013 S2 (HoTS) <==> GSL 2013 S2 Qualifiers which are GSL 2013 S1 Code S and Code A (WoL)
In both cases, the 'qualifers' are the events different from the event itself.
Imagine if IEM World Championship would be play in September 2013 and the qualifications would be IEM points within the 12 months. So half of the poiints would be from WoL events and half from HoTS events, should the Championship be WoL or HoTS. How about Blizzard Cup 2013? Should they include points from this current GSL season?
All I am saying is that there isn't really a 'perfect' solution.
Find it a bit funny how IEM world finals for a series of tournaments was played on a different game xD Guess it isn't to big of a change, but it is a pretty big change xD like 1.6 to CSS i guess! xD
What about MC, PartinG and Symbol? They are still in Wings mode because of Code S. In fact, if they reach the finals they might very well cancel IEM altogether.
IEM is from 5th to 9th March Code S Semifinals is on February 28 and March 1 Code S Finals is on March 9
I am happy it will be hots. Sure it sucks for some players who are still playing WoL but in the end it's all about what the viewers want. These are professional players. They get payed for playing for the viewers. And let's be honest here the majority of people will prefer watching Hots.
I was planning about going to the CeBit, for this tournament. I was worried about that it would be in WoL, cuz i am playing HotS since decembre only. But now, i'm even more hyped for that tournament!
And Grubby will be happy now too, i guess, after i said that i was worried abou that it will be in WoL.
On February 16 2013 03:54 lord_nibbler wrote: What about MC, PartinG and Symbol? They are still in Wings mode because of Code S. In fact, if they reach the finals they might very well cancel IEM altogether.
IEM is from 5th to 9th March Code S Semifinals is on February 28 and March 1 Code S Finals is on March 9
Well, the same is for players going to IPL (2 of ST, IM, EG, MVP teams will take 6 players each).
On February 16 2013 03:05 Azurues wrote: MVP really going?
might not now since it's HoTs possibly?
He's also doing promotion for Intel at Cebit, NesTea is going, too, as far as I know.
On February 16 2013 03:25 vthree wrote: Remember, Jangbi and Fantasy qualified for SC2 OSL via BW OSL.
And we saw how well that worked out...
The GSL argument is shaky imho, they've always done their tournaments based on the previous seasons.IEM has completely separate seasons, only consistent within the season itself and now that consistency is broken.
This is like they are doing the Code S group stages in WoL and the RO8 upwards in HotS.
Even Proleague will have a break after this last WoL round so players can prepare for HotS, they're not switching during rounds or anything, they learned their lesson.
This feels a bit like the hybrid Proleague, some players specialized in the old game, some maybe specialized in the new game. HotS trained players will dominate, players who were doing well in their scenes in SC2 until the last moment will be disadvantaged because it was still worth it for them to practice WoL and play WoL tournaments. LucifroN for example is on a roll in WoL at the moment and I'd have loved to see how he would do at this IEM after going full time and having gotten better and better in the last few weeks.
PartinG and MC are still in GSL and need to practice WoL, no matter if IEM switches or not. They're still good, but it doesn't help them. VortiX said the days left to IEM were too short to practice HotS enough.
There can still be good games, but it will be different.
To me this makes it feel more like an exhibition match, not like a $100,000.tournament. Kinda like Katowice was the real finals.
Obviously, the situation is wierd due to expansion.
But I am not sure why you don't think the GSL comparison works.
IEM World Champion (HoTS) <==> IEM World Championship Qualifier which were point from IEM events (WoL)
GSL 2013 S2 (HoTS) <==> GSL 2013 S2 Qualifiers which are GSL 2013 S1 Code S and Code A (WoL)
In both cases, the 'qualifers' are the events different from the event itself.
Imagine if IEM World Championship would be play in September 2013 and the qualifications would be IEM points within the 12 months. So half of the poiints would be from WoL events and half from HoTS events, should the Championship be WoL or HoTS. How about Blizzard Cup 2013? Should they include points from this current GSL season?
All I am saying is that there isn't really a 'perfect' solution.
I was also looking at it from a prize pool perspective. It just doesn't feel right. All the players qualified for this event through other events, but this event is the only one that's really, really worth it to actually win, if you're a bit arrogant, you can discount the normal IEMs as peanuts.They pay out well to everybody, but they don't particularly reward the winner, First "only" got $6,500 for winning IEM Katowice and part of that probably has to pay for his flights.
I think players participating in the other events mostly won the chance to make it here and win big at the World Championship.
The prize pool is more than thrice as big as the prize pool at the regular season events. Here you can reward yourself and your good play during the whole season with a really big win and a really big check.
That's why I said it felt like they were switching to HotS during GSL playoffs.
If you made it through both GSL group stages this season, you get like $2.8k for your efforts, that's good pay, but it's not life-changing. Only if you win, you get $46,000, but who knows if the same guy who made it into this advantageous position in the Top X, now still can be considered the favourite after they switched games? If that guy now fails, I could imagine he'd feel a bit robbed, even if he is confident now.
The regular season IEM events had a $29,000 prize pool while IEM WC has $100,000. All of the regular season events together paid out less money than IEM WC alone will do.
MC and PartinG are good examples, they're both still in GSL and probably among the favourites at IEM. Now, with hellbats and all, they might not be such big favourites after all. Maybe they completely flipped the tournament balance on its head? Favourites might be underdogs now and the other way around? I don't know, probably not completely if at all, but as I said, it just doesn't feel right to me.
WoL would have been a safe choice and I feel like apart from Slasher, not many people would have complained but tuned in regardless.
Obviously Carmac and IEM felt otherwise and they probably know more than I do about viewers and the market.
I do hope it works out for them, but I'm a helluva lot less excited now than I was four hours ago.
I still believe it could have been an amazing WoL sendoff. IronSquid had great viewer numbers as a WoL tournament only recently and I think IEM could have done it, too. Not in the same style, but with the same result.
Hmm, I always watch IEM, their tournaments are great. But I don't like this move at all, it is the championship final, an ending to a season of WoL tournaments, where players worked hard to qualify for. It is really strange to end the season with HotS, you can't change the rules during the game...
On February 16 2013 03:54 lord_nibbler wrote: What about MC, PartinG and Symbol? They are still in Wings mode because of Code S. In fact, if they reach the finals they might very well cancel IEM altogether.
IEM is from 5th to 9th March Code S Semifinals is on February 28 and March 1 Code S Finals is on March 9
If MC vs. PartinG/Symbol is the GSL finals, then congratulations to YoDa and Daisy for replacing them.
On February 16 2013 03:54 lord_nibbler wrote: What about MC, PartinG and Symbol? They are still in Wings mode because of Code S. In fact, if they reach the finals they might very well cancel IEM altogether.
IEM is from 5th to 9th March Code S Semifinals is on February 28 and March 1 Code S Finals is on March 9
Well, the same is for players going to IPL (2 of ST, IM, EG, MVP teams will take 6 players each).
IPL6 is March 28th-31st... What does IPL have to do with an event going on three and a half weeks earlier? Plenty of time to prepare for WoL in the time period between events...
Nice that Blizzard supports the switch, of course it is perfect PR for HotS. I don't really mind as I have seen enough tournaments that had Balance patches before. And most pros that didn't touched HotS will fall for the easiest stuff for the next couple of month anyway. So it doesn't really matter when it begins, it will last long enough.
On February 16 2013 04:14 Hylirion wrote: Hmm, I always watch IEM, their tournaments are great. But I don't like this move at all, it is the championship final, an ending to a season of WoL tournaments, where players worked hard to qualify for. It is really strange to end the season with HotS, you can't change the rules during the game...
Its a test to dedication to the game of starcraft. Who will be better prepared for HOTS?? I mean guys, they are smart, they have the mechanic, whats the big deal?
On February 16 2013 04:14 Hylirion wrote: Hmm, I always watch IEM, their tournaments are great. But I don't like this move at all, it is the championship final, an ending to a season of WoL tournaments, where players worked hard to qualify for. It is really strange to end the season with HotS, you can't change the rules during the game...
Its a test to dedication to the game of starcraft. Who will be better prepared for HOTS?? I mean guys, they are smart, they have the mechanic, whats the big deal?
BTW i love this move, gogo IEM
So the less dedicated people will have an advantage? ;-)
This is a dumb decision. A week before the release means a lot of players won't have been able to practise appropriately. Just like the standard of WoL play has been good in this GSL it would be fitting to have the same in Europe.
Oh well, I hope the quality of games don't suffer for it.
I dont think its fair move to the players i guess. Slivko was playing wol too just because of IEM. And if they wanted to switch the game, they should tell the players much much sooner. I think the games won't be as proffesional as they would in WoL, cuz HotS is too "fresh"
It's such a "meh" move. Sure Blizzard wants to push this expansion with a tournament to crate big hype but for the players and the overall healthiness of the game it's just that MEH.
Would have enjoyed to see a big tournament a month AFTER the HOTS launch. Sure pull off some 8man stuff and minor things but big ass tournaments with A LOT of cash for first place for a game thats not even a day old?.. fuck off.
Interesting decision. Makes sense for them to try and be one of the first HotS tournaments, but early in a Blizzard game is not neccesarily a great thing, and having a championship ending your WoL run/season played as another game is pretty stupid. On top of this, players seem quite unhappy, and the level of play might be really strange, with pretty random results. I'll still watch it, but not sure it's a very good idea to change this late.
I just hope the players know that before. . It would be even more random if they´re not. Also i hope the audience will be better the last year but i think with the first Hots Cup and maybe an unexpected champion it will be pretty awesome.
On February 16 2013 05:59 opterown wrote: i would not be surprised if a few people end up dropping out of this tournament tbh
Quite likely but won't be entirely based on the switch to HOTS. There have always been quite a few dropouts for the IEM events.
Honestly this decision is understandable but debatable. But the problem is there will always be two sides. Obviously the top tier players that are still in other competitions running WOL will complain about the switch while other players that have already been playing lots of HOTS will be happy since they get higher chances to show off here. The community will be split as well there are lots of people that are tiered of the stale WOL gameplay and are hungering for new stuff where others want to see a tournament at the highest possible skill level.
I'm wondering about the influence blizzard took in the decision considering they are willing to provide EU servers, possibly fly out the winner to the launch event. Obviously this can be great PR for them.
On February 16 2013 06:57 Ch3rry wrote: Let the poll decide:
Poll: Yes or No?
It's gonna be HotS, yeah!!! (Yes) (101)
78%
It's gonna be HotS, boo!!! (No) (29)
22%
130 total votes
Your vote: Yes or No?
(Vote): It's gonna be HotS, yeah!!! (Yes) (Vote): It's gonna be HotS, boo!!! (No)
I'm not concerned about the game played, but the fact that many players will have not too much time to practice. Hots plus a couple of months of practice would have been perfect IMO.
On February 16 2013 06:57 Ch3rry wrote: Let the poll decide:
Poll: Yes or No?
It's gonna be HotS, yeah!!! (Yes) (101)
78%
It's gonna be HotS, boo!!! (No) (29)
22%
130 total votes
Your vote: Yes or No?
(Vote): It's gonna be HotS, yeah!!! (Yes) (Vote): It's gonna be HotS, boo!!! (No)
I'm not concerned about the game played, but the fact that many players will have not too much time to practice. Hots plus a couple of months of practice would have been perfect IMO.
Well, in the end almost nobody thinks of IEM as top notch competition. We have GSL for that (and maybe MLG).
Therefore, making IEM finals world-firsts Heart of the Swarm tournament was the only way to make this tournament memorable in the long run.
On February 16 2013 06:57 Ch3rry wrote: Let the poll decide:
Poll: Yes or No?
It's gonna be HotS, yeah!!! (Yes) (101)
78%
It's gonna be HotS, boo!!! (No) (29)
22%
130 total votes
Your vote: Yes or No?
(Vote): It's gonna be HotS, yeah!!! (Yes) (Vote): It's gonna be HotS, boo!!! (No)
I'm not concerned about the game played, but the fact that many players will have not too much time to practice. Hots plus a couple of months of practice would have been perfect IMO.
Well, in the end almost nobody thinks of IEM as top notch competition. We have GSL for that (and maybe MLG).
Therefore, making IEM finals world-firsts Heart of the Swarm tournament was the only way to make this tournament memorable in the long run.
On February 16 2013 06:57 Ch3rry wrote: Let the poll decide:
Poll: Yes or No?
It's gonna be HotS, yeah!!! (Yes) (101)
78%
It's gonna be HotS, boo!!! (No) (29)
22%
130 total votes
Your vote: Yes or No?
(Vote): It's gonna be HotS, yeah!!! (Yes) (Vote): It's gonna be HotS, boo!!! (No)
That is suggestive poll if I ever saw one. Completely worthless.
Well, if You change your mind about "like"/"don't like" IEM HotS finals after seeing the poll, then Your opinion is quite useless.
EDIT: Back on topic, I'm glad that all tournaments are switching to HotS as soon as possible. Was worried that no one will play HotS for high prizes until at least 3 months after its launch.
Seriously, who wants to see WoL? I have even problems with GSL, after like not playing WoL for like 3 month. And this is the perfect time for a HotS Tourney, after then end of the beta and before release.
On February 16 2013 07:40 Chloroplaste wrote: Soul Train + mothership core... dudes it will be such an easy win for Parting with the current state of heart of the swarm !
Hellbats n mines yo
MVP's got this. He seems to know what he's doing in HotS already as well
It was the only reasonable choice for IEM. I say down with the competitive aspect and let's have some entertainment.
Watching new strategies evolve, become OP, get figured out and discarded will be a lot of fun. And for me it is far more interesting than watching the same stupid NR10-NR15 WoL games.
For people saying its unfair for the players who have been practicing WoL, well its the player's fault for not practicing the new game. Not the tournaments. I don't see how it can ever be unfair when it was completely the players choice to practice WoL and not HOTS.
imo, pretty bad decision competition wise. Whole year players've been playing WoL to qualify for main competition and it will be HotS, different game... And another thing is I know Kas and Snute were heavily practicing WoL for this tournament and now they have to switch fast for HotS, when they actualy could do it much-much earlier. And I dont see why people are happy about it... i mean, yeah, WoL is boring with imba shit-zerg stuff, but HotS right now is even worse... all we will see is hellbat-mine-supervac-void_ray bullshit. Actualy sad... I wanted Kas to win this
On February 16 2013 08:09 Archen wrote: For people saying its unfair for the players who have been practicing WoL, well its the player's fault for not practicing the new game. Not the tournaments. I don't see how it can ever be unfair when it was completely the players choice to practice WoL and not HOTS.
Everyone assumed that if whole season it was WoL then Final IEM will be WoL, and noone said it's gonna be HotS till now...
On February 16 2013 08:09 Archen wrote: For people saying its unfair for the players who have been practicing WoL, well its the player's fault for not practicing the new game. Not the tournaments. I don't see how it can ever be unfair when it was completely the players choice to practice WoL and not HOTS.
Yeah, shame on them because they actually wanted to do well and win games at IEM, they should have seen it coming and focused on everything but IEM.
I'm not feeling it right for this. All your qualifier tournaments were WoL and now you end with HotS just to jump on the other tournament organizers? It just doesn't feel right.
IPL upheld it's principles and is hosting one last WoL even though it may draw less viewers. You gotta uphold principles, to keep it prestigious.
I personally cannot agree with this decision, but understandable. WOL is coming to an end, however for this kind of major tournament switching from one game to another is not easy for both players and host organization to deal with, especially only less than 20 days left. Anyway GL to all players.
Honestly, HotS content is completely boring to me, so I'm no longer excited for this event. I can understand the change though and hope the event turns out well.
On February 16 2013 08:09 Archen wrote: For people saying its unfair for the players who have been practicing WoL, well its the player's fault for not practicing the new game. Not the tournaments. I don't see how it can ever be unfair when it was completely the players choice to practice WoL and not HOTS.
Well this would make sense...if it was not the tiny fact that HoTS has not be released. This is not like lets say IPL where the tournament is actually after the release.
IEM has gone from a great last hurrah in the twillight of WoL, with excellent players deciding a tournament half a year in the making, to a who-will-win-the-coin-flip-freak-show. To me, as someone who enjoys watching SC2, this is a terrible "me first" move that disrespects the players and the game. I expected more.
It is such a bold move from ESL to forsake the single strong point they have compared to the other SC2 premier tournaments. Their flagship tournament's competitive value.
ESL always put competition first. Their qualifying system for each event was staggering with so many levels and multiple attempts for each player to qualify, ensuring the participating players are truly the best. It always had less invites compared to their flashy competitors, which seemed to base their invites on each player's amount of likes and followers, or the quality of their post-game ceremony. This approach ultimately hurt them, with less hype and lower viewer counts for every one of their events.
However, it is time for business to come first. Competition will not get in the way this time. The chance to finally one-up MLG could not be passed. What's the worst thing that can happen? The casters will be forced to clench their teeth and cringe when tactics that only work on unbalanced yet-to-be released games win matches for $100,000?
And Blizzard... oh Blizzard. Did anyone seriously believe you would enforce any competitive value in the amazing eSports game you produced? We saw your eyes sparkle when ESL offered to sink at least $100k into your marketing campaigns for HotS. Your accountants will be happy. The fans who lost their passion for SC2:WoL will be happy. The players who qualified for IEM WC but did not care enough about it to stick to WoL will be happy as well. The rest of us, not so much.
ESL does so much to promote and build eSports from the ground up, with ridiculous amounts of prize money being handed out weekly in tournaments, available in all regions and levels. They promote eSports globally, by sending their premier event across the globe, visiting 4 continents in a single year. This time, they chose business over competition. But we can't blame them for that, because Turtle Entertainment GmbH is firstly a business.
In 2 months we'll forget all about this. But in 2 years the lists of HotS champions will always have IEM as the first event.
Good move to make it HotS that early. I'm more interested to see the new game rather than watching the old one knowing the new would have also been possible.
I just dont care if its unfair for some players or if the balance isnt final at this point.
The only thing thats important for me is that i am entertained. WoL right now is so boring to watch and stuck in always the same tactics and mechanics. Getting to see new units and strategies will be much more fun to watch than seeing mass infestors and stupid immortal-sentry allins.
On February 16 2013 16:30 Noam wrote: It is such a bold move from ESL to forsake the single strong point they have compared to the other SC2 premier tournaments. Their flagship tournament's competitive value.
ESL always put competition first. Their qualifying system for each event was staggering with so many levels and multiple attempts for each player to qualify, ensuring the participating players are truly the best. It always had less invites compared to their flashy competitors, which seemed to base their invites on each player's amount of likes and followers, or the quality of their post-game ceremony. This approach ultimately hurt them, with less hype and lower viewer counts for every one of their events.
However, it is time for business to come first. Competition will not get in the way this time. The chance to finally one-up MLG could not be passed. What's the worst thing that can happen? The casters will be forced to clench their teeth and cringe when tactics that only work on unbalanced yet-to-be released games win matches for $100,000?
And Blizzard... oh Blizzard. Did anyone seriously believe you would enforce any competitive value in the amazing eSports game you produced? We saw your eyes sparkle when ESL offered to sink at least $100k into your marketing campaigns for HotS. Your accountants will be happy. The fans who lost their passion for SC2:WoL will be happy. The players who qualified for IEM WC but did not care enough about it to stick to WoL will be happy as well. The rest of us, not so much.
ESL does so much to promote and build eSports from the ground up, with ridiculous amounts of prize money being handed out weekly in tournaments, available in all regions and levels. They promote eSports globally, by sending their premier event across the globe, visiting 4 continents in a single year. This time, they chose business over competition. But we can't blame them for that, because Turtle Entertainment GmbH is firstly a business.
In 2 months we'll forget all about this. But in 2 years the lists of HotS champions will always have IEM as the first event.
Well said and completely agree with everything except the last sentence. I don't know about most people, but I consider Fruitdealer the first WoL champion, not Idra or Morrow from beta. I feel like both the IEM and possibly even MLG winners next month will be in that same category as Idra/Morrow, not Fruitdealer.
I really don't get why there are so many upset people hating again...
The more tournaments switch to HotS asap, the earlier all players get a chance to get good at it. It's mostly those tournaments that that stay WoL where they could switch the hurt their players.
Excellent decision imo and happy that Blizzard supports this with their private servers.
I personally am completely done with Wol and have no interest in it anymore, and i am sure many players feel the same. After all, a lot of players watch tournaments to improve themselves and watching Wol does not help in that regard.
On February 17 2013 20:31 elanobissen wrote: Kas recently said that he is practicing WoL as he thought that IEM would be WoL. He along with the other players must feel so screwed now:<
Screwed why? It's not like someone else was noted earlier about this than him. Everyone is equal in this position.
On February 17 2013 20:31 elanobissen wrote: Kas recently said that he is practicing WoL as he thought that IEM would be WoL. He along with the other players must feel so screwed now:<
Screwed why? It's not like someone else was noted earlier about this than him. Everyone is equal in this position.
Most of the other qualified players had at least started to transition into HotS. Mainly Kas, Snute, and Vortix has been exclusively been practising WoL the last month.
On February 17 2013 20:31 elanobissen wrote: Kas recently said that he is practicing WoL as he thought that IEM would be WoL. He along with the other players must feel so screwed now:<
Screwed why? It's not like someone else was noted earlier about this than him. Everyone is equal in this position.
Most of the other qualified players had at least started to transition into HotS. Mainly Kas, Snute, and Vortix has been exclusively been practising WoL the last month.
Why does it matter who was practicing what? Everyone was noted at the same time about IEM being hots.
On February 17 2013 19:49 ALPINA wrote: Excellent decision imo and happy that Blizzard supports this with their private servers.
I personally am completely done with Wol and have no interest in it anymore, and i am sure many players feel the same. After all, a lot of players watch tournaments to improve themselves and watching Wol does not help in that regard.
Pretty much the same as me. I've had a lot of problems actually enjoying proleague/GSL since I got into the HoTS beta as I find it a hell of a lot more entertaining to play/watch streams of. This is a great move and it guarentees atleast people like me will tune in. I wouldn't have bothered if it was WoL.
I mean I'm still going to watch the last season of WoL GSL, only the games I want to though, same goes for Proleague.
Good, maybe this tournament exposes how ridiculous some things are in HotS, and Blizzard gets in a balance patch before MLG that does more than moving Overlord speed to Hatchery.
It's too early to be pushing HotS tournaments IMO, especially of this caliber with that much money on the line. We are going to be seeing some abusive boring games
On February 18 2013 00:20 magnaflow wrote: It's too early to be pushing HotS tournaments IMO, especially of this caliber with that much money on the line. We are going to be seeing some abusive boring games
There were tournaments soon after SC2 vanilla was released, and the imbalance at that time was much bigger then now in HOTS beta. At that time maps were so good for terran tank abuses and reaper rushes it was a joke from our today's perspective.
Never the less we all had fun watching and i think we will have fun watching early HOTS tournaments even if balance isnt that perfect now.
On February 17 2013 23:55 sitromit wrote: Good, maybe this tournament exposes how ridiculous some things are in HotS, and Blizzard gets in a balance patch before MLG that does more than moving Overlord speed to Hatchery.
Man I sure missed the times when zergs felt they were underpowered and would whine about absolutely everything from planetary fortresses to missile turrets and battlecruisers.
Wow thats awesome, i hope player knew before.. and they wont be able to play from march first to march 5th? ;o mean no practice... Well its a shame for player but i guess for me its good, because since HOTS beta will be down ill be able to watch some HOTS tournement games before the lunch can't wait for this tournement!!!
On February 18 2013 00:20 magnaflow wrote: It's too early to be pushing HotS tournaments IMO, especially of this caliber with that much money on the line. We are going to be seeing some abusive boring games
Even with the wacky balance (which most of it is people not understanding the game) it's probably more balanced than you think.
I'm excited for this. Haven't been watching much HoTS but I think it would be interesting to see what the pros come up with with the time they have left
On February 18 2013 02:04 Phanekim wrote:isn't 3.12 the release date and isn't this tournament before that? will blizz even have the hots servers up?
No, Blizz won't have any HotS servers up, they're going to play an entire tournament on a game they're unable to actually play...
This question is actually legit since Blizzard is going to close the beta before the IEM. Back to topic, I'm exicited to see a big tournament on HotS but I have the feeling that it doesn't make a lot of sense to have a whole season on WoL and the final on HotS. Only hope that it will balanced enough to make it really interresting.
As a spectator, I'd be more inclined to tune into HotS than WoL at this point. It's just fresh and more exciting. Early WoL had some of the funniest games.
Would be fun if they only use the WoL units by a gentlemen agreement. Pro Players should just agree to make all the WoL Units ^^, no HOTS Units. It is a bad idea/not thought to the end because: As some abilities are changed (Fungal, Medivac Boost, Void Ray, Halluzination/Siege tank no research, cheaper DTs etc etc). Well if players cannot train for it, we will feel lots of sloppy (i don't know if i spelled it right ) games.
Grubby indicated on Twitter that pros will not have access to HotS to train for events. Seems like a real bad move to just not acknowledge concerns about that when making this announcement. He doesn't seem upset but I think a little dissatisfaction would be justified.
Fantastic move. I hope the WoL chapter is finally closed. HotS is not only a shiny new toy, but it's better. What happens when a pro team gets a player like MB, they defend it by saying it's about exposure. Well, guess what, no one wants to watch WoL, especially right after the release of HotS. At least HotS is the better game. A pro going all-in for 1 tournament in WoL, when there will be numerous tournaments to follow that are HotS. It's a short-sighted gamble. Sometimes you lose.
On March 02 2013 04:12 playa wrote: Fantastic move. I hope the WoL chapter is finally closed. HotS is not only a shiny new toy, but it's better. What happens when a pro team gets a player like MB, they defend it by saying it's about exposure. Well, guess what, no one wants to watch WoL, especially right after the release of HotS. At least HotS is the better game. A pro going all-in for 1 tournament in WoL, when there will be numerous tournaments to follow that are HotS. It's a short-sighted gamble. Sometimes you lose.
This tournament is not after the release of HotS, but yes that's the basic idea.
On March 01 2013 17:00 REFLEX_500 wrote: What time in US Eastern will the tournament take place? From what I can tell it starts at 9:30am CET...is that correct?
-Tommy- REFLEX_500
The first day should start at around 3:30AM for Eastern US time.
On March 01 2013 17:00 REFLEX_500 wrote: What time in US Eastern will the tournament take place? From what I can tell it starts at 9:30am CET...is that correct?
-Tommy- REFLEX_500
The first day should start at around 3:30AM for Eastern US time.
I guess 9:30 CET is the opening time. would not expect any matches to be played before 10:30
On March 01 2013 17:00 REFLEX_500 wrote: What time in US Eastern will the tournament take place? From what I can tell it starts at 9:30am CET...is that correct?
-Tommy- REFLEX_500
The first day should start at around 3:30AM for Eastern US time.
I guess 9:30 CET is the opening time. would not expect any matches to be played before 10:30
Ah yeah, you're probably right. Never hurts to tune in early.
On March 03 2013 20:16 Zeon0 wrote: this is so retarded, there is a tournament a few days ahead and the players cant even play the game they have to play in that tournament.
The game isn't released. Nobody paid for beta, nobody is entitled to play it.
On March 03 2013 21:37 Zeon0 wrote: yeah, i know that. i meant IEM deciding to make their tournament a HotS tournament is retarded.
It really isn't. I know I personally don't want to even watch WoL anymore. There's going to be a few TvTs I watch in proleague but that;'s it. WoL is 3 years old at this point and the metagame has hardly shifted in about a year and a half or something. It's relatively boring to watch outside of TvT for me personally and I know I sure as hell wouldn't have tuned in to IEM if it wasn't HoTS.
Some of the most fun I've had watching SC2 in the past year was watching this years pre-season GSTL which was in HoTS. It was exciting, it was new and it was so much fresher.
On March 03 2013 20:16 Zeon0 wrote: this is so retarded, there is a tournament a few days ahead and the players cant even play the game they have to play in that tournament.
The game isn't released. Nobody paid for beta, nobody is entitled to play it.
Well I don't see how entitlement is an issue here ~
IEM & Blizzard made sure the tournament will be HotS before release - we had a beta which is good, however this benefits Blizzard at least as much as people having fun playing it/getting interested. I would even argue Blizzard did a marvelous job making sure their game is promoted excellently while maintaining a rather high standard of balance, all accomplished with the beta.
Now Pros can't play until the event - those are people who most definitely will buy the game... you can't tell me that that is an optimal outcome for anyone now, can you?
On March 03 2013 20:16 Zeon0 wrote: this is so retarded, there is a tournament a few days ahead and the players cant even play the game they have to play in that tournament.
The game isn't released. Nobody paid for beta, nobody is entitled to play it.
Well I don't see how entitlement is an issue here ~
IEM & Blizzard made sure the tournament will be HotS before release - we had a beta which is good, however this benefits Blizzard at least as much as people having fun playing it/getting interested. I would even argue Blizzard did a marvelous job making sure their game is promoted excellently while maintaining a rather high standard of balance, all accomplished with the beta.
Now Pros can't play until the event - those are people who most definitely will buy the game... you can't tell me that that is an optimal outcome for anyone now, can you?
Blizzard made sure the tournament will be HotS before the release? Do you have a source for that?
On March 03 2013 20:16 Zeon0 wrote: this is so retarded, there is a tournament a few days ahead and the players cant even play the game they have to play in that tournament.
The game isn't released. Nobody paid for beta, nobody is entitled to play it.
Well I don't see how entitlement is an issue here ~
IEM & Blizzard made sure the tournament will be HotS before release - we had a beta which is good, however this benefits Blizzard at least as much as people having fun playing it/getting interested. I would even argue Blizzard did a marvelous job making sure their game is promoted excellently while maintaining a rather high standard of balance, all accomplished with the beta.
Now Pros can't play until the event - those are people who most definitely will buy the game... you can't tell me that that is an optimal outcome for anyone now, can you?
Blizzard made sure the tournament will be HotS before the release? Do you have a source for that?
Who do you think will provide the servers? The technology for LAN is just not there yet...
//edit: Also I would refer you to this Post or just read the OP...
My point is, Blizzard apparently has a reason to close their beta for 10 days, and that reason apparently beats having pros train on HotS. Now people like you are saying that isn't "is an optimal outcome for anyone now". And I'd like to know why you think you know better than Blizzard if this is optimal for Blizzard. Aside from the fact that every kid on the internet thinks they're way smarter than international corporations.
On March 04 2013 19:21 blackone wrote: My point is, Blizzard apparently has a reason to close their beta for 10 days, and that reason apparently beats having IEM in HotS. Now people like you are saying that isn't "is an optimal outcome for anyone now". And I'd like to know why you think you know better than Blizzard if this is optimal for Blizzard. Aside from the fact that every kid on the internet thinks they're way smarter than international corporations.
Nice link you are trying to establish with the IPL thread...
I don't know better than Blizzard, how could I and why should I? There are people being paid to know better.
All I am saying is that pushing/allowing for a tournament with their latest, not even released addon and not providing the pros participating with the necessary tools is far from optimal. 10 days is rather long time I would imagine if you can't prepare properly when so much money is on the line.
On March 04 2013 19:30 Doublemint wrote: I don't know better than Blizzard, how could I and why should I? There are people being paid to know better.
You don't, that's the point. You said it wasn't optimal for anyone and I think that would include Blizzard. And again you're saying Blizzard was "pushing" for this. And you made that up, you have no idea if they were pushing for it.
On March 04 2013 19:30 Doublemint wrote: I don't know better than Blizzard, how could I and why should I? There are people being paid to know better.
You don't, that's the point. You said it wasn't optimal for anyone and I think that would include Blizzard. And again you're saying Blizzard was "pushing" for this. And you made that up, you have no idea if they were pushing for it.
Yeah...
I am not interested in such an internet discussion to be honest. Picking points I left for interpretation and did not give a definite answer on while others that don't suit you will not be addressed. You did notice the slash with "allowing" right next to it, right?
I put it out there as it is a reasonable assumption and possibility - but not as a fact.
After that video I wonder if he's going to do anything as amazing as him walking on as the undertaker for the OSL group selection or his dance in his murloc suit this IEM.
On March 04 2013 22:13 Qikz wrote: After that video I wonder if he's going to do anything as amazing as him walking on as the undertaker for the OSL group selection or his dance in his murloc suit this IEM.
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Zm5xtJH.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/uTBMqtn.jpg)
