EPTOn February 16 2013 03:05 Azurues wrote:
MVP really going?
might not now since it's HoTs possibly?
MVP really going?
might not now since it's HoTs possibly?
Of course he's going, he's also playing in the MLG qualifiers which are HotS.
IEM Season 7 World Championship will be HotS - Page 4
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Dodgin
Canada39254 Posts
Of course he's going, he's also playing in the MLG qualifiers which are HotS. | ||
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Arceus
Vietnam8333 Posts
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Dexington
Canada7276 Posts
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Rollies
United Kingdom29 Posts
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ZanXala
Sweden26 Posts
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RiceAgainst
United States1849 Posts
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SpikeStarcraft
Germany2095 Posts
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vthree
Hong Kong8039 Posts
On February 16 2013 02:34 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: Whether you agree or disagree with the decision I hope you take into account that people always get hurt in this situation. It is unavoidable for people not to get hurt. So if you are saying "this hurts the people who were practicing WoL" that is not a good enough motivation by itself. If this had been a WoL tournament it hurts every player in this tournament by being behind in skill for HotS when all the major tournaments start there. This is also what will happen to the players qualified to IPL. There is a big reason to keep it WoL; having the same game your players qualified for obviously makes a lot of sense from a competitive perspective. However, that is not the end all be all of reasons. This can be shown by simply looking at a situation where HotS comes out after 3 months into an IEM year. Would you want them to have the finals 9 months later in WoL? I'm sure every person posting in this thread would consider that the wrong move too. This indicates that for all of you out there it is possible to have reasons that outweigh the competitive consistency reasoning. I don't particularly care, and I told Carmac that we would respect his decision either way. I can see the arguments on both sides here and don't really see it as a right or wrong situation. Financially IEM thinks they need this and that WoL may not satisfy their sponsors with the numbers it will draw. Competitively you give up consistency from qualifiers to finals, which is a big deal to give up as a legitimate sport. On the other hand you also gain the players not starting behind in the HotS scene because of making them commit to an old game. Well, I am not sure the qualifier argument works. Unless GSL will hold Open Seasons for HoTS or make big changes to the current format. You could argue that the qualifiers for next season's Code S (HoTS) will be based on WoL. Current Code A and top 8 Code S is WoL (not sure about U&D). Even if U&D is HoTS, player 'qualified' for U&D via WoL. Remember, Jangbi and Fantasy qualified for SC2 OSL via BW OSL. | ||
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StarVe
Germany13591 Posts
On February 16 2013 03:05 Azurues wrote: MVP really going? might not now since it's HoTs possibly? He's also doing promotion for Intel at Cebit, NesTea is going, too, as far as I know. On February 16 2013 03:25 vthree wrote: Well, I am not sure the qualifier argument works. Unless GSL will hold Open Seasons for HoTS or make big changes to the current format. You could argue that the qualifiers for next season's Code S (HoTS) will be based on WoL. Current Code A and top 8 Code S is WoL (not sure about U&D). Even if U&D is HoTS, player 'qualified' for U&D via WoL. Remember, Jangbi and Fantasy qualified for SC2 OSL via BW OSL. And we saw how well that worked out... The GSL argument is shaky imho, they've always done their tournaments based on the previous seasons.IEM has completely separate seasons, only consistent within the season itself and now that consistency is broken. This is like they are doing the Code S group stages in WoL and the RO8 upwards in HotS. Even Proleague will have a break after this last WoL round so players can prepare for HotS, they're not switching during rounds or anything, they learned their lesson. This feels a bit like the hybrid Proleague, some players specialized in the old game, some maybe specialized in the new game. HotS trained players will dominate, players who were doing well in their scenes in SC2 until the last moment will be disadvantaged because it was still worth it for them to practice WoL and play WoL tournaments. LucifroN for example is on a roll in WoL at the moment and I'd have loved to see how he would do at this IEM after going full time and having gotten better and better in the last few weeks. PartinG and MC are still in GSL and need to practice WoL, no matter if IEM switches or not. They're still good, but it doesn't help them. VortiX said the days left to IEM were too short to practice HotS enough. There can still be good games, but it will be different. To me this makes it feel more like an exhibition match, not like a $100,000.tournament. Kinda like Katowice was the real finals. Of course, as Nazgul said, someone will always be hurt, but I still can't brin myself to agree with the decision. | ||
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7mk
Germany10157 Posts
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Surkein
35 Posts
I kinda like the idea that all the "immortal allins" are not that easily readible from the timings of certain buildings or upgrades etc. Its nice to see how these talented players, like Snute, react to situations in a somewhat fresh game. | ||
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Fuell
Netherlands3111 Posts
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vthree
Hong Kong8039 Posts
On February 16 2013 03:25 StarVe wrote: He's also doing promotion for Intel at Cebit, NesTea is going, too, as far as I know. And we saw how well that worked out... The GSL argument is shaky imho, they've always done their tournaments based on the previous seasons.IEM has completely separate seasons, only consistent within the season itself and now that consistency is broken. This is like they are doing the Code S group stages in WoL and the RO8 upwards in HotS. Even Proleague will have a break after this last WoL round so players can prepare for HotS, they're not switching during rounds or anything, they learned their lesson. This feels a bit like the hybrid Proleague, some players specialized in the old game, some maybe specialized in the new game. HotS trained players will dominate, players who were doing well in their scenes in SC2 until the last moment will be disadvantaged because it was still worth it for them to practice WoL and play WoL tournaments. LucifroN for example is on a roll in WoL at the moment and I'd have loved to see how he would do at this IEM after going full time and having gotten better and better in the last few weeks. PartinG and MC are still in GSL and need to practice WoL, no matter if IEM switches or not. They're still good, but it doesn't help them. VortiX said the days left to IEM were too short to practice HotS enough. There can still be good games, but it will be different. To me this makes it feel more like an exhibition match, not like a $100,000.tournament. Kinda like Katowice was the real finals. Obviously, the situation is wierd due to expansion. But I am not sure why you don't think the GSL comparison works. IEM World Champion (HoTS) <==> IEM World Championship Qualifier which were point from IEM events (WoL) GSL 2013 S2 (HoTS) <==> GSL 2013 S2 Qualifiers which are GSL 2013 S1 Code S and Code A (WoL) In both cases, the 'qualifers' are the events different from the event itself. Imagine if IEM World Championship would be play in September 2013 and the qualifications would be IEM points within the 12 months. So half of the poiints would be from WoL events and half from HoTS events, should the Championship be WoL or HoTS. How about Blizzard Cup 2013? Should they include points from this current GSL season? All I am saying is that there isn't really a 'perfect' solution. | ||
Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
Will be fun, can't wait to watch! | ||
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lord_nibbler
Germany591 Posts
 MC, PartinG and  Symbol? They are still in Wings mode because of Code S. In fact, if they reach the finals they might very well cancel IEM altogether.IEM is from 5th to 9th March Code S Semifinals is on February 28 and March 1 Code S Finals is on March 9 | ||
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StarGalaxy
Germany744 Posts
Sure it sucks for some players who are still playing WoL but in the end it's all about what the viewers want. These are professional players. They get payed for playing for the viewers. And let's be honest here the majority of people will prefer watching Hots. | ||
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Pyloss
Germany1515 Posts
I was planning about going to the CeBit, for this tournament. I was worried about that it would be in WoL, cuz i am playing HotS since decembre only. But now, i'm even more hyped for that tournament! And Grubby will be happy now too, i guess, after i said that i was worried abou that it will be in WoL. | ||
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vthree
Hong Kong8039 Posts
On February 16 2013 03:54 lord_nibbler wrote: What about MC, PartinG and Symbol? They are still in Wings mode because of Code S. In fact, if they reach the finals they might very well cancel IEM altogether.IEM is from 5th to 9th March Code S Semifinals is on February 28 and March 1 Code S Finals is on March 9 Well, the same is for players going to IPL (2 of ST, IM, EG, MVP teams will take 6 players each). | ||
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hangarninetysix
263 Posts
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StarVe
Germany13591 Posts
On February 16 2013 03:47 vthree wrote: Obviously, the situation is wierd due to expansion. But I am not sure why you don't think the GSL comparison works. IEM World Champion (HoTS) <==> IEM World Championship Qualifier which were point from IEM events (WoL) GSL 2013 S2 (HoTS) <==> GSL 2013 S2 Qualifiers which are GSL 2013 S1 Code S and Code A (WoL) In both cases, the 'qualifers' are the events different from the event itself. Imagine if IEM World Championship would be play in September 2013 and the qualifications would be IEM points within the 12 months. So half of the poiints would be from WoL events and half from HoTS events, should the Championship be WoL or HoTS. How about Blizzard Cup 2013? Should they include points from this current GSL season? All I am saying is that there isn't really a 'perfect' solution. I was also looking at it from a prize pool perspective. It just doesn't feel right. All the players qualified for this event through other events, but this event is the only one that's really, really worth it to actually win, if you're a bit arrogant, you can discount the normal IEMs as peanuts.They pay out well to everybody, but they don't particularly reward the winner, First "only" got $6,500 for winning IEM Katowice and part of that probably has to pay for his flights. I think players participating in the other events mostly won the chance to make it here and win big at the World Championship. The prize pool is more than thrice as big as the prize pool at the regular season events. Here you can reward yourself and your good play during the whole season with a really big win and a really big check. That's why I said it felt like they were switching to HotS during GSL playoffs. If you made it through both GSL group stages this season, you get like $2.8k for your efforts, that's good pay, but it's not life-changing. Only if you win, you get $46,000, but who knows if the same guy who made it into this advantageous position in the Top X, now still can be considered the favourite after they switched games? If that guy now fails, I could imagine he'd feel a bit robbed, even if he is confident now. The regular season IEM events had a $29,000 prize pool while IEM WC has $100,000. All of the regular season events together paid out less money than IEM WC alone will do. MC and PartinG are good examples, they're both still in GSL and probably among the favourites at IEM. Now, with hellbats and all, they might not be such big favourites after all. Maybe they completely flipped the tournament balance on its head? Favourites might be underdogs now and the other way around? I don't know, probably not completely if at all, but as I said, it just doesn't feel right to me. WoL would have been a safe choice and I feel like apart from Slasher, not many people would have complained but tuned in regardless. Obviously Carmac and IEM felt otherwise and they probably know more than I do about viewers and the market. I do hope it works out for them, but I'm a helluva lot less excited now than I was four hours ago. I still believe it could have been an amazing WoL sendoff. IronSquid had great viewer numbers as a WoL tournament only recently and I think IEM could have done it, too. Not in the same style, but with the same result. | ||
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