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On January 25 2013 22:59 castlewise wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2013 22:30 Veldril wrote:On January 25 2013 22:08 MavivaM wrote:On January 25 2013 22:03 Epamynondas wrote:On January 25 2013 21:44 MavivaM wrote:
Iirc Sc2 sold about 1.5 million copies in the very first days: let's say that the number hasn't changed.
That means that Browder met around 750.000 people in real life just because they wanted to congratulate for the single player campaign's glorious experience. One would think that Blizzard has access to the number of people who bought the game and the number of people who ladder. That's an intelligent post and I never thought about that. So there are 2.5 million of people who bought the game only to go online and play the single campaign? ...I still hope he is bullshitting us >_> He is not. You will be surprised how many people outside of SC community hates Multiplayer and never touch it. The problem with Teamliquid community is that we are sometimes too tightly focus on one game and not notice the trend or opinion of general public. ^This I like SC2, bought the game, beat it on brutal, 100%'ed the sp achievements, and watch a lot of husky casts. (I even got the Here Comes the Hammer achievement on Left 2 Die while playing solo because I didn't want to deal with multi.) On the RPS forums, or the Escapist this would be enough to qualify me as an avid SC2 fan. I also lurk on the team liquid forums enough to know that here those things qualify me as the worst sort of noob. SC2 multi has a strong community, but it can be hostile and dismissive to outsiders and outside opinions.
I just have written a blog post about this. Basically, I also think that we all tend to forget what the silent majority of people is doing with the game.
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Bisutopia19307 Posts
I gotta admit Dustin Browder interviews are always fun to read no matter the questions we get great answers lol.
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Browder is a good guy... He obviously loves this game. A LOT.
Can you imagine how stressful it must've been the first year or so, with tens of thousands of people relentlessly hating on you?
Yet the guy still forgives and loves the people who threw bricks at his face?
DB, he's like Jesus for Starcraft.
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From your perspective, what is killing eSports?
One word: Deathball™
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Nice Interview and I like he still consider there is more to work on TvP MECH. We await the next patches as soon as possible.
The saddest thing: Unranked and Ranked in the same Pool!!!! Two days ago a guy reported me because of this.I were looking for TvP and only faced T and Z and was quitting lot of games.One of the players got raged and reported me because: "in your match history there is "1v1" and you quit trying to get lower league than Gold,so I will report you!!!".Should I feel guilty?? There is no one in the "Custom Games" and I understand there arent many players in some regions like Southeast Asia,but matching Unranked with Ranked is so stupid...If the Community is growing,how is possible there to be "few" players???
The ladder will be a sh** and there will be a lot of free wins.It will be my fault and I hope we dont get punished because of this.Its just that sometimes I come to SC2 to play TvP,ZvP,PvT or TvT.Dont wanna play 20 games and got no time to play 10 games in a row to only find the match I am looking for.If I got no time or no friends,because I am casual or all my friends preffer CoD,what should I do???
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Great interview, thanks OP. Gogogo DB!
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Hmm, how do you verify this is actually DB if the interview was done in text only?
Just saying, because I did not spot a single "right?"
e. wait a minute, there's one right at the start.
False alert.
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I'm going to say it,
pitting Unranked players against Ranked players is not going to work out. Its just going to be heavily abused. Blizzard will be faced with one of two options. 1. Take away Unranked entirely. or 2. Unranked and Ranked will have to be completely separate MMR systems. More likely the second option will occur.
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On January 25 2013 04:36 AnomalySC2 wrote:
"I’m going to try to pull you away from here by constant harassment with Warp Prism. And it could be very cost effective and very dangerous. We hadn’t changed that unit. But they were starting to use it that way."
Yes they did change the Warp Prism, they buffed the shield hp on it.
It was starting to see some use before the shields buff but it never really took off big until the actual buff.
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On January 26 2013 02:13 Treehead wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2013 11:05 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:It’s growing at logarithmic rates. ![[image loading]](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ea/Log.svg/220px-Log.svg.png) not quick enough =/ Ok, so this is definitely not what he meant (because I'm guessing DB isn't terribly into maths) - but technically, he COULD have meant that the rates themselves follow the logarithmic function (for instance, when you say "growing at a constant rate" you don't mean growing like the constant function - which is to say not at all). That would mean that the picture of the interest itself would be the integral of a logarithimic function would look like some version of x*ln(x) - x + C (use integration by parts), which is a graph that starts at C, dips down a bit initially, but then grows at slightly better than linear rates. He probably meant exponential, but then, probably almost no one around him would know the difference between exponential and logarithmic anyway. But then in business, if you're using words which have more abstract meanings, it doesn't matter if you actually know what they mean. The message they mean to convey is "hey, I'm smart" and most people just assume that the subtext of the conversation (the "hey, I'm smart") is correct anyway. Of course, if more people in the US actually knew or were interested in math...
Uhh, I'm pretty sure logarithmically is exactly what he meant, and that it probably is a decent approximation of growth in the SC2 scene. It might have been exponential 2 years ago, but it's certainly leveled out a lot now
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He says logarithmic as a figure of speech. Why are you guys trying to decipher that much out of it ?
He probably doesn't really know exactly the growth unless Blizzard has made a study on "e-sport growth" which isn't data available at Blizzard office. They would have to actually make the study and I doubt they did. He just knows there are many tournament, many fans and to him it looks like its growing and he says logarithmic in an interview. Thats about it...
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"Logarithmic" is pretty correct. SC2 exploded at release and now it's tapered off quite a bit. Still growing, but not at the rate of 2010/2011.
If it were "exponential", the whole planet would be hooked on SC2 by now. =P
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On January 26 2013 05:14 PauseBreak wrote:
I'm going to say it,
pitting Unranked players against Ranked players is not going to work out. Its just going to be heavily abused. Blizzard will be faced with one of two options. 1. Take away Unranked entirely. or 2. Unranked and Ranked will have to be completely separate MMR systems. More likely the second option will occur.
I see the issue, but as long as you don't know if you are playing against a ranked or unranked player, I don't think it will be easy to abuse.
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On January 25 2013 22:30 Veldril wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2013 22:08 MavivaM wrote:On January 25 2013 22:03 Epamynondas wrote:On January 25 2013 21:44 MavivaM wrote:
Iirc Sc2 sold about 1.5 million copies in the very first days: let's say that the number hasn't changed.
That means that Browder met around 750.000 people in real life just because they wanted to congratulate for the single player campaign's glorious experience. One would think that Blizzard has access to the number of people who bought the game and the number of people who ladder. That's an intelligent post and I never thought about that. So there are 2.5 million of people who bought the game only to go online and play the single campaign? ...I still hope he is bullshitting us >_> He is not. You will be surprised how many people outside of SC community hates Multiplayer and never touch it. The problem with Teamliquid community is that we are sometimes too tightly focus on one game and not notice the trend or opinion of general public.
+1
It's very easy to forget when all you do is post at TL that the vast majority of people that bought Sc2 bought it for the Single Player campaign and maybe played a few multiplayer games for a little while.
From my own experience, most of my friends that bought it did so for the single player mode and the story. A couple of them got into multiplayer after they got bored of singleplayer mode but the rest did not.
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On January 26 2013 07:15 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2013 05:14 PauseBreak wrote:
I'm going to say it,
pitting Unranked players against Ranked players is not going to work out. Its just going to be heavily abused. Blizzard will be faced with one of two options. 1. Take away Unranked entirely. or 2. Unranked and Ranked will have to be completely separate MMR systems. More likely the second option will occur. I see the issue, but as long as you don't know if you are playing against a ranked or unranked player, I don't think it will be easy to abuse.
I think part of the issue with mixing ranked and unranked is that most people who wanted an unranked ladder, because it would provide a more "friendly" "stress-free" environment to play the game that isn't as mismatched as custom games. With neither player knowing either's ranks, wins/losses mean nothing other than playing the game for a good time.
With a mixed ladder, I wouldn't feel like I'm getting this environment, because the other player could always be playing "for real." Also, I think with the unranked ladder, you shouldn't be able to see your opponent's profile as this is counter to having no knowledge of your rank on the unranked ladder.
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On January 26 2013 02:31 virpi wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2013 22:59 castlewise wrote:On January 25 2013 22:30 Veldril wrote:On January 25 2013 22:08 MavivaM wrote:On January 25 2013 22:03 Epamynondas wrote:On January 25 2013 21:44 MavivaM wrote:
Iirc Sc2 sold about 1.5 million copies in the very first days: let's say that the number hasn't changed.
That means that Browder met around 750.000 people in real life just because they wanted to congratulate for the single player campaign's glorious experience. One would think that Blizzard has access to the number of people who bought the game and the number of people who ladder. That's an intelligent post and I never thought about that. So there are 2.5 million of people who bought the game only to go online and play the single campaign? ...I still hope he is bullshitting us >_> He is not. You will be surprised how many people outside of SC community hates Multiplayer and never touch it. The problem with Teamliquid community is that we are sometimes too tightly focus on one game and not notice the trend or opinion of general public. ^This I like SC2, bought the game, beat it on brutal, 100%'ed the sp achievements, and watch a lot of husky casts. (I even got the Here Comes the Hammer achievement on Left 2 Die while playing solo because I didn't want to deal with multi.) On the RPS forums, or the Escapist this would be enough to qualify me as an avid SC2 fan. I also lurk on the team liquid forums enough to know that here those things qualify me as the worst sort of noob. SC2 multi has a strong community, but it can be hostile and dismissive to outsiders and outside opinions. I just have written a blog post about this. Basically, I also think that we all tend to forget what the silent majority of people is doing with the game.
The thing that I am most excited about for SC in the next month is not any tournament or 1v1 connected event. It's the release of the final chapter of the BW campaign remake.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=303166
DB interview is great. Blizzard gets endless shit, but I love SC2 and think they did a damn good job even if I wish we still had lurkers and firmly believe reavers>collosus.
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On January 26 2013 10:14 KillingVector wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2013 07:15 Plansix wrote:On January 26 2013 05:14 PauseBreak wrote:
I'm going to say it,
pitting Unranked players against Ranked players is not going to work out. Its just going to be heavily abused. Blizzard will be faced with one of two options. 1. Take away Unranked entirely. or 2. Unranked and Ranked will have to be completely separate MMR systems. More likely the second option will occur. I see the issue, but as long as you don't know if you are playing against a ranked or unranked player, I don't think it will be easy to abuse. I think part of the issue with mixing ranked and unranked is that most people who wanted an unranked ladder, because it would provide a more "friendly" "stress-free" environment to play the game that isn't as mismatched as custom games. With neither player knowing either's ranks, wins/losses mean nothing other than playing the game for a good time. With a mixed ladder, I wouldn't feel like I'm getting this environment, because the other player could always be playing "for real." Also, I think with the unranked ladder, you shouldn't be able to see your opponent's profile as this is counter to having no knowledge of your rank on the unranked ladder.
This is a good idea. I should note that I don't usually think there are very many good ideas in this community, but this is genuinely a brilliant idea.
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On January 26 2013 10:14 KillingVector wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2013 07:15 Plansix wrote:On January 26 2013 05:14 PauseBreak wrote:
I'm going to say it,
pitting Unranked players against Ranked players is not going to work out. Its just going to be heavily abused. Blizzard will be faced with one of two options. 1. Take away Unranked entirely. or 2. Unranked and Ranked will have to be completely separate MMR systems. More likely the second option will occur. I see the issue, but as long as you don't know if you are playing against a ranked or unranked player, I don't think it will be easy to abuse. I think part of the issue with mixing ranked and unranked is that most people who wanted an unranked ladder, because it would provide a more "friendly" "stress-free" environment to play the game that isn't as mismatched as custom games. With neither player knowing either's ranks, wins/losses mean nothing other than playing the game for a good time. With a mixed ladder, I wouldn't feel like I'm getting this environment, because the other player could always be playing "for real." Also, I think with the unranked ladder, you shouldn't be able to see your opponent's profile as this is counter to having no knowledge of your rank on the unranked ladder.
Well, here's the general issue. When people want "an unranked ladder":
1) They want to play a game that has no consequences (even if it's aesthetic penalties). Playing a ranked ladder opponent does not change this.
2) They want to goof around against an opponent who also goofs around. Playing any sort of automated match-making system makes this impossible on a consistent basis.
3) They want to try new things out in a "real game" environment without losing current standing. Unranked vs Ranked is actually ideal.
4) They want to curb-stomb newbies. No matchmaking system will ever allow this purposefully.
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On January 26 2013 02:06 Diminisherqc wrote:
mavivam.... i ahve about 10 real life friends that plays starcraft 2 8 of them play really casually wont ladder and only play with friends vs ai ... but they sure did rock the campagin ... only me and another one ladder.so 50 % is actually lower than i tough haha
people like mavivam like to push there opinions as fact. Just ignore him. I for one cant wait for the campaign and love the WOL campaign as well,
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On January 27 2013 13:49 WolfintheSheep wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2013 10:14 KillingVector wrote:On January 26 2013 07:15 Plansix wrote:On January 26 2013 05:14 PauseBreak wrote:
I'm going to say it,
pitting Unranked players against Ranked players is not going to work out. Its just going to be heavily abused. Blizzard will be faced with one of two options. 1. Take away Unranked entirely. or 2. Unranked and Ranked will have to be completely separate MMR systems. More likely the second option will occur. I see the issue, but as long as you don't know if you are playing against a ranked or unranked player, I don't think it will be easy to abuse. I think part of the issue with mixing ranked and unranked is that most people who wanted an unranked ladder, because it would provide a more "friendly" "stress-free" environment to play the game that isn't as mismatched as custom games. With neither player knowing either's ranks, wins/losses mean nothing other than playing the game for a good time. With a mixed ladder, I wouldn't feel like I'm getting this environment, because the other player could always be playing "for real." Also, I think with the unranked ladder, you shouldn't be able to see your opponent's profile as this is counter to having no knowledge of your rank on the unranked ladder. Well, here's the general issue. When people want "an unranked ladder": 1) They want to play a game that has no consequences (even if it's aesthetic penalties). Playing a ranked ladder opponent does not change this. 2) They want to goof around against an opponent who also goofs around. Playing any sort of automated match-making system makes this impossible on a consistent basis. 3) They want to try new things out in a "real game" environment without losing current standing. Unranked vs Ranked is actually ideal. 4) They want to curb-stomb newbies. No matchmaking system will ever allow this purposefully.
These are all possibilities for what people expect from an unranked ladder. My personal experience is that when I hear someone complaining about wanting an unranked ladder, they want to be able to play the game without any ladder anxiety and want something different from being rolf stomped by masters players in custom games. That is, the unranked ladder is really for the casual part of the sc2 scene.
I'm going off anecdotal evidence, so I would love to see any polls if you got them. Otherwise, we're both fishing in the dark.
There could be potential problems with mixed ranked/unranked. I'm wondering if it is possible for two high masters players to win trade to GM. If you can stream snipe pro players consistently, then it should be possible for two people to coordinate always playing each other if their MMR is high enough.
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EPT
