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On December 31 2012 02:54 Plansix wrote:
Game Designer A: So you want us to make the factory build something that is as good at the marine? The marine? The 50 minerals killing machine? The core of nearly every balance problem we have in WoL?
You're telling yourself fairy tales if you really think that SC2 problems come from the Marine.
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On December 30 2012 09:06 MCXD wrote:
Just to play the devil's advocate, do consider that terran was already the race with the most stuff. They are the most versatile as is, so it's to be expected that there isn't as much that can be added without it seemingly superfluous (like spider mines).
I agree with this, I don't think it'd make much sense to add as much stuff to Terran as they added to Protoss and Zerg. Terran was by far the most completed race in WoL (do NOT confuse with the most powerful/easy/whatever).
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On December 31 2012 03:01 howLiN wrote:Show nested quote +On December 30 2012 09:06 MCXD wrote:
Just to play the devil's advocate, do consider that terran was already the race with the most stuff. They are the most versatile as is, so it's to be expected that there isn't as much that can be added without it seemingly superfluous (like spider mines). I agree with this, I don't think it'd make much sense to add as much stuff to Terran as they added to Protoss and Zerg. Terran was by far the most completed race in WoL (do NOT confuse with the most powerful/easy/whatever).
I think most terrans are satifised with mech being viable tvp. Also one of our new units (the mine) currently is very gimmicky, and I think useless in other other matchups than tvz, which is a shame.
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On December 31 2012 02:58 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On December 31 2012 02:54 Plansix wrote:
Game Designer A: So you want us to make the factory build something that is as good at the marine? The marine? The 50 minerals killing machine? The core of nearly every balance problem we have in WoL? You're telling yourself fairy tales if you really think that SC2 problems come from the Marine.
In the early days of WoL, the marine was pretty amazing. This was before they increased the build time for stim, made maps larger with easy to defend naturals, increased the bunker build time, changed charge so it would connect with kiting marines and made fungle so it would out damage medivacs when cast on marines(that last change has proven to be not so good). They never nerfed the marine, just everything around.
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On December 31 2012 03:04 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +On December 31 2012 03:01 howLiN wrote:On December 30 2012 09:06 MCXD wrote:
Just to play the devil's advocate, do consider that terran was already the race with the most stuff. They are the most versatile as is, so it's to be expected that there isn't as much that can be added without it seemingly superfluous (like spider mines). I agree with this, I don't think it'd make much sense to add as much stuff to Terran as they added to Protoss and Zerg. Terran was by far the most completed race in WoL (do NOT confuse with the most powerful/easy/whatever). I think most terrans are satifised with mech being viable tvp. Also one of our new units (the mine) currently is very gimmicky, and I think useless in other other matchups than tvz, which is a shame.
I think they should make the mine do more AOE damage, but I also don't want to deal with idiots trying to get free wins by rushing them into my mineral line. I kinda wish Blizzard would just bit the bullet, buff their AOE damage and make it so they don't target workers.
So basically I want them to be awesome in a battle when used by a good player, but not annoying to the point where I want to throw my monitor across the room.
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On December 31 2012 03:07 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On December 31 2012 02:58 TheDwf wrote:On December 31 2012 02:54 Plansix wrote:
Game Designer A: So you want us to make the factory build something that is as good at the marine? The marine? The 50 minerals killing machine? The core of nearly every balance problem we have in WoL? You're telling yourself fairy tales if you really think that SC2 problems come from the Marine. In the early days of WoL, the marine was pretty amazing. This was before they increased the build time for stim, made maps larger with easy to defend naturals, increased the bunker build time, changed charge so it would connect with kiting marines and made fungle so it would out damage medivacs when cast on marines(that last change has proven to be not so good). They never nerfed the marine, just everything around.
still, without fungal and other casdters /aoe damage, with the unlimited unit selection and the clumping up unitmovement, bioballs + medivacs = sooooo god damn gamebreaking. I think hes right, all in all, marines are what is breaking the game, without the way the mechanics work with movement and unlimited unit selection, without the buffs rines got from sc bw , sentries wouldnt have to be in the game, neither colo or infestors
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On December 31 2012 01:05 Al Bundy wrote:
A couple of video game players who have less gaming experience than me, talking about game design. Why would I listen to them again? Not to mention these guys are not competitors, they're in it for the money, nothing else.
Who cares about gaming experience? They're way, way better than you are at this game.
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Thanks for the interview, very well done. Lots of good insight into hots
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let's count
terran changes: hellion/HB, widowmine, raven, thor, sharing armor mech upgrades, medivac, reapers. that's 7 new buffs/changes
zerg: ultra, swarm host, hydra, viper, spore crawlers, mutas. that's 6 buffs/changes not including infestors because arguably they were nerfed.
protoss: oracle, tempest, void ray, carrier, MsC, DT shrine, phoenix. 7 buffs/changes.
yeah, terran really got screwed on this one. No I'm not convinced that terran got the short end of the stick, having armor mech upgrades share with air is such big buff.
But I do think some of the design choices on these changes are questionable. Blizzard still needs to change fungal, reapers and swarm hosts, so I agree that these new units don't add a whole lot more, but to say terran is completely screwed is just a big QQ
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I agree with Demuslim that Terran plays pretty much the same as WoL. Although it may be balanced, it's not very fun for Terran players.
PvZ is completely flipped now with Roach/Hydra being such a strong composition midgame and Colossus being hard-countered by Vipers. Although Skytoss got big buff, it's really hard to survive against a midgame roach/hydra push.
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On December 31 2012 03:13 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On December 31 2012 03:04 Hider wrote:On December 31 2012 03:01 howLiN wrote:On December 30 2012 09:06 MCXD wrote:
Just to play the devil's advocate, do consider that terran was already the race with the most stuff. They are the most versatile as is, so it's to be expected that there isn't as much that can be added without it seemingly superfluous (like spider mines). I agree with this, I don't think it'd make much sense to add as much stuff to Terran as they added to Protoss and Zerg. Terran was by far the most completed race in WoL (do NOT confuse with the most powerful/easy/whatever). I think most terrans are satifised with mech being viable tvp. Also one of our new units (the mine) currently is very gimmicky, and I think useless in other other matchups than tvz, which is a shame. I think they should make the mine do more AOE damage, but I also don't want to deal with idiots trying to get free wins by rushing them into my mineral line. I kinda wish Blizzard would just bit the bullet, buff their AOE damage and make it so they don't target workers. So basically I want them to be awesome in a battle when used by a good player, but not annoying to the point where I want to throw my monitor across the room.
Give Probes/SCV's/Drones an extra tag called "Harvester" and make mines unable to target units with that tag. And increase aoe damage to 150.
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On December 31 2012 06:07 NEEDZMOAR wrote:Show nested quote +On December 31 2012 03:07 Plansix wrote:On December 31 2012 02:58 TheDwf wrote:On December 31 2012 02:54 Plansix wrote:
Game Designer A: So you want us to make the factory build something that is as good at the marine? The marine? The 50 minerals killing machine? The core of nearly every balance problem we have in WoL? You're telling yourself fairy tales if you really think that SC2 problems come from the Marine. In the early days of WoL, the marine was pretty amazing. This was before they increased the build time for stim, made maps larger with easy to defend naturals, increased the bunker build time, changed charge so it would connect with kiting marines and made fungle so it would out damage medivacs when cast on marines(that last change has proven to be not so good). They never nerfed the marine, just everything around. still, without fungal and other casdters /aoe damage, with the unlimited unit selection and the clumping up unitmovement, bioballs + medivacs = sooooo god damn gamebreaking. I think hes right, all in all, marines are what is breaking the game, without the way the mechanics work with movement and unlimited unit selection, without the buffs rines got from sc bw , sentries wouldnt have to be in the game, neither colo or infestors
Marines would have been a dominant force in BW too if not for AOE damage. Tanks, reavers, and lurkers all made sure that wasn't the case. The major difference is, those units were all designed well and made the game better because they were really strong but had to be positioned/controlled very well to get the most out of due to major vulnerabilities. The same can't be said of infestors and colossi.
To flip things around, how many games do you think Terran would ever win against Zerg or Protoss if marines weren't as good as they are?
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On December 31 2012 06:19 emc wrote:
let's count
terran changes: hellion/HB, widowmine, raven, thor, sharing armor mech upgrades, medivac, reapers. that's 7 new buffs/changes
zerg: ultra, swarm host, hydra, viper, spore crawlers, mutas. that's 6 buffs/changes not including infestors because arguably they were nerfed.
protoss: oracle, tempest, void ray, carrier, MsC, DT shrine, phoenix. 7 buffs/changes.
yeah, terran really got screwed on this one. No I'm not convinced that terran got the short end of the stick, having armor mech upgrades share with air is such big buff.
But I do think some of the design choices on these changes are questionable. Blizzard still needs to change fungal, reapers and swarm hosts, so I agree that these new units don't add a whole lot more, but to say terran is completely screwed is just a big QQ
A mine and a new mode for an existing unit is extremely dull compared to the three and two entirely new units Protoss and Zerg are getting respectively. It's really clear that Terran is getting the short end of the stick here. Not to mention Blizzard is fucking up TvT badly by making reaper mandatory.
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On December 30 2012 14:00 Zenbrez wrote:Show nested quote +On December 30 2012 13:04 Papulatus wrote:
Does anyone else read every IdrA interview in his voice? I wouldn't be able to read fast enough
I do, but are you implying Idra talks fast? I've never noticed.
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Good stuff! All the terran changes just lack originality so much. The two new units are basically just copied from Brood War, and ravens now have yamato for some reason. That being said, a a significant portion of the zerg changes are taken from Brood War as well.
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Although the fact that Widow mines can come out so quickly and kill a mineral line is pretty ridiculous.
Also I wish Ultras had burrow charge, Ultra/Hydra/ling was a combo I was REALLY looking forward to trying vs Terran and Toss
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I just hope fungal is changed to not affect air units. I absolutely despise the PvZ MU because of fungal growth alone. Stargate harassment builds are simply not viable because of chain fungal growths. The other day I opened 4 phoenix after FE and was excited when he didn't scout me at all because I knew I would surprise him. Then as I get to his base I pick up one queen and out come infestors who perfectly countered my build without even scouting. The thing is...with infestors he would have countered pretty much any build I could have done. I want to be able to harass effectively without just attacking.
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On December 30 2012 09:06 MCXD wrote:
Just to play the devil's advocate, do consider that terran was already the race with the most stuff. They are the most versatile as is, so it's to be expected that there isn't as much that can be added without it seemingly superfluous (like spider mines).
Yeah, definitely.
Terran have a lot of fancy things they can do (tech lab or reactor lab swapping, supply depots, their Orbital Command, etc) and has the most flexibility in terms of BO choices (most noticeably in lower levels, if you randomly play Zerg or Protoss and don't know the exact BO, you're screwed but Terran can get off doing random stuff and surviving). Plus a lot of people in 2010-2011 agreed that Terran was the most complete race.
This is coming from a once Terran (now random) player.
Though, I'd like them to add new upgrades or stuff.
They added new abilities (medivac speed upgrade, the heal upgrade, etc) but they're kind of generic.
I'd like the fire suppression systems (from single player), which puts out fires and simply looks cool.
If only for the coolness factor, they should add fire suppression system.
In fact, in my SC2 custom maps, I took the fire suppression system... and DOUBLED IT (oh noes, I did copied Jay Wilson).
What I did, I made a new behavior for the fire suppression system, a cloned the actors.
However, I scaled the time so the fire suppression system (the second one) starts off like 1-2 seconds earlier (instead of a "Start or beginning", I just skipped to the main part of the animation which is about 1-2 seconds earlier).
Now whenever my structures are on fire, 4 flying bots put out the fires and it just looks cool.
So... yeah add Fire Suppression Level 1 and Level 2 (which lets you have 4 flying bots) to Terran and every Terran fan will cheer.
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On December 31 2012 06:19 emc wrote:
let's count
terran changes: hellion/HB, widowmine, raven, thor, sharing armor mech upgrades, medivac, reapers. that's 7 new buffs/changes
zerg: ultra, swarm host, hydra, viper, spore crawlers, mutas. that's 6 buffs/changes not including infestors because arguably they were nerfed.
protoss: oracle, tempest, void ray, carrier, MsC, DT shrine, phoenix. 7 buffs/changes.
yeah, terran really got screwed on this one. No I'm not convinced that terran got the short end of the stick, having armor mech upgrades share with air is such big buff.
But I do think some of the design choices on these changes are questionable. Blizzard still needs to change fungal, reapers and swarm hosts, so I agree that these new units don't add a whole lot more, but to say terran is completely screwed is just a big QQ
This is a complete logic fail. Having the same number of changes is not equal to the quality of those changes.
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I really appreciated this interview as it was very interesting to read their in-depth opinions on HotS and how it is shaping out competitively.
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EPT
