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iEchoic
United States1776 Posts
On the contrary, I'd actually say balance is much worse than people make it seem. I haven't seen the game this imbalanced since release. I also haven't seen the community this angry and disinterested since release. The constant ZvZs, PvPs, and PvZs are wearing people down. Pro players are screaming IMBA IMBA IMBA IMBA IMBA in televised games. Burying your head in the sand won't fix this. | ||
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Natalya
Belgium287 Posts
On December 19 2012 16:50 UniversalSnip wrote: maybe I'm searching this wrong but you don't appear to have any posts in the lings of liberty thread? ( http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/search.php?q=lings&t=ct&f=-1&u=opterown&gb=date&d= ) In case you guys didnt know, Ver didnt actually meant what he wrote here. It's halfway between a satire and a troll. (Source : Monk, who helped Ver wrote this thread) | ||
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JKM
Denmark419 Posts
poor statistics makes for a poor conclusions (however vague it may be). | ||
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PaperPrinter
33 Posts
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crbox
Canada1180 Posts
On December 20 2012 04:23 JKM wrote: Someone who's really in to statistics should find parameters/method to weigh to properly measure balance instead of this useless bullshit. poor statistics makes for a poor conclusions (however vague it may be). Khaldor (like stated a few times in the comments) is NOT trying to say that means the game is balanced. He rather means that every race can win tournaments, and so far the winning have been fairly equal. Does that mean the game is balance? Not necessary but it means it's not as bad as many people try to make it look like. | ||
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iEchoic
United States1776 Posts
On December 20 2012 04:52 crbox wrote: Khaldor (like stated a few times in the comments) is NOT trying to say that means the game is balanced. He rather means that every race can win tournaments, and so far the winning have been fairly equal. Does that mean the game is balance? Not necessary but it means it's not as bad as many people try to make it look like. And the Cleveland Cavaliers have made the playoffs 80% of the time in the last 5 years. They're not as bad as people make them out to be. As demonstrated above, when you take an aggregate statistic over a period of changes, it gives you no information about the current state. Nobody is arguing that the game is imbalanced in aggregate over the last year, they're arguing that it's imbalanced now. The argument Khaldor is making makes little sense. P.S. I love your casting Khaldor, no disrespect intended. | ||
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HwangjaeTerran
Finland5967 Posts
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Daumen
Germany1073 Posts
On December 19 2012 17:03 Rowrin wrote: You can spin statistics to say anything, you really have to dive into how the statistics were taken before you make assumptions, kinda like what opterown said. Thats true, but every statistics has to say something. The Graphs on the Lings of Liberty thread for example say very strongly that Korean Terrans do something better than Foreign Terrans, also it says that Foreigner Zerg & Protoss had more success against Korean Terrans than Foreign Terrans, and/or it said that out of the 3 races in Korea, Terran lost the most against Foreign Zerg & Protoss. It was designed to show this in a probably Biased way but if those graphs are true and not falsified it does raise some questions. | ||
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nottapro
202 Posts
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tskarzyn
United States516 Posts
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Laryleprakon
New Zealand9496 Posts
This seems like a pretty pointless way to look at balance tho, a year in sc2 is to long to look at (3-6months max imo) | ||
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Risljaninasim
Netherlands228 Posts
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snively
United States1159 Posts
On December 20 2012 05:03 HwangjaeTerran wrote: Tournament results should not even be mentioned in the same sentence with game balance. i dont know... you cant say that tournament results are completely separate from game balance. they may not be as directly related as some people may think, but they're definitely not separate. i would say your only chance is to look at as much as you can before deciding wether the game is balanced or not, and besides, balance arguments suck no matter what you do | ||
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Lorch
Germany3690 Posts
Because 2 individuals making it to the final does not mean that the one race who looses is worse than the one who wins and the other way around, it also doesn't mean that the 1 race that didn't make it to the finals is worse than the others. If you'd have a tournament with say very even race distribution initially of 128 players (getting tvx finals out of a tournament with >50% terran does not make terran imba) and get a round of 16 with 7 terran, 7 toss and 2 zerg you could still end up with say tvz finals. If you only look at the finals p is underpowered, and if zerg wins they are actually imba. 2 out of 128/3 is not op. When you take tournament results as an indicator of balance you need to be very careful, and atleast look at round 8. Finals don't really say anything. Also it's very important to take the initial racial distribution of the tournament into account. What you should look into is winrates for matchups across all pro level games, that says a lot more imo. | ||
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oxxo
988 Posts
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SC2ShoWTimE
Germany722 Posts
for example when the racial distribution is like 50% zerg 30% protoss and 20% terran it most of the times means that there are a lot of mediocre zerg players and mostly top protoss/terran players, what will falsify the winrates/results. | ||
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hellokittySC2
United States395 Posts
Also, I hate to say it, but a caster's opinion on balance shouldn't be taken as important as all pro gamers across this game. | ||
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lemonbone
Hong Kong154 Posts
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Insomni7
667 Posts
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NeutralDepot
80 Posts
Oh btw he totally bopped his group by winning a single game out of 4 bo3s. Anbody who fails to see that terrans is on the ropes at the moment is completely ignorant. Maybe Khaldor should actually follow the SC2 scene. The balance is horrible for Terran right now and it makes my heart bleed to watch another tournament with terrans getting eliminated this early. It's funny how people like Khaldor or Day9 as well (mocking the term patchzerg) try to pour oil on troubled water instead of actually critising Blizzard for its inaction and indecisiveness. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2012_GSL_Blizzard_Cup All of these premier events were played under 1.5.3. but I see none of them won by terran. Where are all the terran winners of premier events post queen patch? | ||
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