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Tankz123
Denmark228 Posts
Terran/Zerg/Protoss: Jan - May: 6, 2, 2 April - Jun: 3, 4, 3 Jul - Oct: 3, 5, 4 Nov - Dec: 1, 2, 4 For second place: Terran/Zerg/Protoss Jan - May: 3, 5, 2 April - Jun: 1, 3, 6 Jul - Oct: 2, 6, 4 Nov - Dec: 2, 2, 3 Granted, this doesn't exactly say a lot, it shows that terran completely wrecked faces in the start of the year, and then slowly faded away into the void. on another note, anyone that knows how to make this easier to read? it looks like a mess  | ||
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KrazyTrumpet
United States2520 Posts
On December 19 2012 18:04 opterown wrote: i actually think zvz is really fun to watch these days lol. it's not bad, give it a try :p It's ok, but the sheer volume of ZvZs lately outweighs that IMO Too many people in this thread seem to be focusing way too hard on number of tournament wins by each race (including Khaldor) when the problem is stale and unvaried viewer experience. You would not see nearly as much complaining, even if one race was winning more than the other if the games were actually varied and interesting again. Just imagine what the conversation would be like if we still had pre Queen buff TvZ, yet Zerg was still edging out tournament victories. I can pretty much guarantee it would be much different, because those games were varied, and very skill based. | ||
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KrazyTrumpet
United States2520 Posts
On December 19 2012 18:04 opterown wrote: i actually think zvz is really fun to watch these days lol. it's not bad, give it a try :p edit: damnit, firefox crashed. accidental double post sorry | ||
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MilesTeg
France1271 Posts
People just live in a fantasy world at this point. There's this idea that everything a Terran does is so insanely difficult, Terran players are so good...They should win every game really. And Zergs? All they do is a-move. Fungal is basically like a-moving anyway. Mutas? That's not real harassment. It's easy, zerg harassment. Splitting (NOT broodlords) , force fields, this is the only micro that counts. Never mind that it's actually probably easier to harass than it is to defend harassment;Terran players are better because they drop stuff. Even when they lose they're better. Fortunately if you just get off the Internet you realize that people are usually not as retarded as the vocal minority that infested starcraft would make you think. | ||
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thuracine
United States582 Posts
Khaldor, I have several problems with this. Basically you say don't qq, but the reason for this is that we feel like its falling on deaf ears. Like when you casted the GSTL at IPL4 and people were shouting we want lan. They added this in HOTS. The biggest problem that i have is how many people are not interested in the game anymore from zerg imbalance. Fundamentally, I don't feel like subscribing to the GSL right now when every tournament is infestor broodlord corruptor. I think that has to be the number one driver of the game. Money. Money talks. I think that the reason why you should not say things like this is that your livelihood depends on blizzard fixing this. I have long argued that adding 1 food supply cost for infestors and brood lords would basically fix the game. Zergs could still do a spine drop to get higher than 200 supply. Tournaments try to add certain maps to make other races more viable. Most tournaments use ohana now just to give toss a chance. I hate watching PvZ on ohana. Its just aweful. I'm surprised that you are supporting balance right now more than anyone else. Match win rates are way more important that tournament wins. I think your argument is weak. The question I have is how many people are still going to watch starcraft or play hots if they are not confident in the leadership. Money talks, don't forget that. In the GSL the players with the highest match winrates are 1. Life, sniper DRG, leenock, hyun for individuals. 2. sniper, yonghwa, symbol, Leenock, JYP for the team games. How many fight clubs did hyun win? I want to see creator, squirtle, parting, supernova, marineking, MVP, rain, seed, Yonghwa, Major, have a fighting chance in the future. I don't feel like blizzard is part of the community any more for being so passive about this for so long. [/QUOTE] they dont have a fighting chance? 7 of those u mentioned are in the top 20 in earnings this year | ||
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Nuclease
United States1049 Posts
Given all of those factors, I'd say this thread is pretty inconclusive. | ||
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Deleted User 137586
7859 Posts
On December 19 2012 18:04 opterown wrote: i actually think zvz is really fun to watch these days lol. it's not bad, give it a try :p I showed a game to a friend that plays little and spectates less. It was Life v Scarlett. Life was harassing and doing damage all game long and my friend was really getting into the game. Then there was a big battle where armies just lined up ship-of-the-line style and a billion infested terrans came out on both sides. No-one, including the casters, knew what was going on and when the dust settled, Scarlett was ahead. From that moment on the game was a joke. We cannot have a spectator strategy game if the result of games is down to silly spamming engagements where no-one knows the outcome. From the spectator's perspective, we could have those battles decided by rolling die. | ||
opterown
Australia54784 Posts
On December 19 2012 18:29 Ghanburighan wrote: I showed a game to a friend that plays little and spectates less. It was Life v Scarlett. Life was harassing and doing damage all game long and my friend was really getting into the game. Then there was a big battle where armies just lined up ship-of-the-line style and a billion infested terrans came out on both sides. No-one, including the casters, knew what was going on and when the dust settled, Scarlett was ahead. From that moment on the game was a joke. We cannot have a spectator strategy game if the result of games is down to silly spamming engagements where no-one knows the outcome. From the spectator's perspective, we could have those battles decided by rolling die. sometimes it is bad, but a lot of the time there are cool games too :p | ||
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thuracine
United States582 Posts
On December 19 2012 18:29 Ghanburighan wrote: I showed a game to a friend that plays little and spectates less. It was Life v Scarlett. Life was harassing and doing damage all game long and my friend was really getting into the game. Then there was a big battle where armies just lined up ship-of-the-line style and a billion infested terrans came out on both sides. No-one, including the casters, knew what was going on and when the dust settled, Scarlett was ahead. From that moment on the game was a joke. We cannot have a spectator strategy game if the result of games is down to silly spamming engagements where no-one knows the outcome. From the spectator's perspective, we could have those battles decided by rolling die. You just accused zerg of being OP against zerg | ||
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Arnstein
Norway3381 Posts
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DiMano
Korea (South)2066 Posts
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Exells
France59 Posts
On December 19 2012 18:37 Arnstein wrote: My biggest problem isn't about what race wins most, it's just that it's not entertaining to watch that really annoys me. I totally agree with you, i think the problem is that zerg dont have choici do go infestor broodlords which is NOT spectator friendly. Blizz have done a good thing in WoL by nerfing infestor and buffing other zerg tech (hydras, mutas, ultras...). Maybe hots will be more cool to watch but i'm afraid the damage is done. | ||
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Deleted User 137586
7859 Posts
On December 19 2012 18:33 thuracine wrote: You just accused zerg of being OP against zerg Wait, what? No. We were discussing whether "zvz is really fun to watch these days"? What has this got to do with balance? Opterown, ZvZ is actually a MU I used to like a lot. But its current version tends to be less viewer friendly. And the culprit is still the infestor. | ||
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JustPassingBy
10776 Posts
On December 19 2012 18:33 thuracine wrote: You just accused zerg of being OP against zerg Hm... since when did OP become the abbreviation for Overly boring for People to watch? | ||
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n0ise
3452 Posts
On December 19 2012 16:22 Khaldor wrote: After I posted this on Reddit a few people argued that the information should rather be posted on TL. So here you go: As it's nearly the end of 2012 now and after all the recent balance whining I was curious about the results in Premier Tournaments in 2012. So I took the liberty of having a closer look at Liquipedia and the race distribution for 1st and 2nd place finishers in 2012. Here are the results:
What does this mean? I'm not trying to say the game is balanced. Nor am I saying that certain units (Infestors hi?) don't need to be changed. All I am saying is that these days everyone echoes "facts" they've read on Twitter, Reddit or here on TL whithout even thinking about them. The game is certainly not perfect and there are a lot of things that need to be changed, BUT it is nowhere near as bad as people make it out to be these days. TLDR: StarCraft2, even though not balanced, is not AS imbalanced as people might want you believe it is Go play ladder as T at a decently high level on any ladder and - take an economic/army/whatever advantage against T and see how it plays out - take an economic/army/whatever advantage against P and see how it plays out - take an economic/army/whatever advantage against Z and enjoy only being barely behind. Or watch high level terrans stream. People lose from 1-2 bases up. I won't disagree with the fact that, hypothetically, on a 14 hour/day practice scenario, the best korean terran playing flawlessly can have a perfectly even game vs the best Z. Anything below perfection for the Terran just gets punished too easily. I respect you a lot, but you're just wrong on this one. People don't echo thoughts off twitter, they state their own thoughts after playing/following the game. They get frustrated. Blizzard, while probably focused on HoTS just ignores this matter, so naturally, people will get angry and even more vocal. I agree with saying that 'it's not as bad as some make it to be' - at the same time, it also doesn't help pretending that Z doesn't have serious 'issues' at the moment. | ||
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keglu
Poland485 Posts
On December 19 2012 16:22 Khaldor wrote: After I posted this on Reddit a few people argued that the information should rather be posted on TL. So here you go: As it's nearly the end of 2012 now and after all the recent balance whining I was curious about the results in Premier Tournaments in 2012. So I took the liberty of having a closer look at Liquipedia and the race distribution for 1st and 2nd place finishers in 2012. Here are the results:
What does this mean? I'm not trying to say the game is balanced. Nor am I saying that certain units (Infestors hi?) don't need to be changed. All I am saying is that these days everyone echoes "facts" they've read on Twitter, Reddit or here on TL whithout even thinking about them. The game is certainly not perfect and there are a lot of things that need to be changed, BUT it is nowhere near as bad as people make it out to be these days. TLDR: StarCraft2, even though not balanced, is not AS imbalanced as people might want you believe it is Blizzard Cup 5Z 4P 1T shows 'quality' of tournaments won by Terran Also Major tournaments: Race 1st 2nd Zerg 16-15 Terran 8-8 Protoss 10-9 Minor tournaments Zerg: 34-25 Terran: 16-19 Protoss 20-21 | ||
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
On December 19 2012 19:40 keglu wrote: Blizzard Cup 5Z 4P 1T shows 'quality' of tournaments won by Terran Also Major tournaments: Race 1st 2nd Zerg 16-15 Terran 8-8 Protoss 10-9 Minor tournaments Zerg: 34-25 Terran: 16-19 Protoss 20-21 i suggest not paying much attention to minor/major tournaments since those lists are not updated very regularly and are often inconsistent | ||
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thuracine
United States582 Posts
On December 19 2012 19:24 Ghanburighan wrote: Wait, what? No. We were discussing whether "zvz is really fun to watch these days"? What has this got to do with balance? Opterown, ZvZ is actually a MU I used to like a lot. But its current version tends to be less viewer friendly. And the culprit is still the infestor. just mad you didn't give scarlet credit for stopping those engagements and earning the upper hand latter in the game. | ||
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Cereb
Denmark3388 Posts
Community: Lemmie ****ing tell you why these numbers are completely useless and why it's okay for me to complain all the time. Then proceeds to talk about balance and problems with the game... T_T Nice try Khaldor! <3 | ||
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Snake.69
Canada140 Posts
Overall, you can expect a very exciting first few months of Hots, until people discover that this god damn new toss air army is pretty damn strong LOL. | ||
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