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On January 07 2013 02:55 gh0un wrote:
Terrans have the highest spending quotient, really now?
Lets look at random diamond replay: queued units on the production buildings.
Lets look at random master replay: queued units on the production buildings.
Lets look at random grandmaster replay: queued units on the production buildings.
Lets take a look at IMMvps replays, queued units on the production buildings, at all stages of the game.
I wonder why terrans have the highest spending quotient, really dont have a clue at all.
Oh right, macroing as terran works differently than macroing as protoss or zerg, of which both have to macro at the exact moment when they actually have their larvae/warpins available, while terran can lazily queue all of that stuff up.
You constantly produce as terran, thats just how it is.
Why such passive aggressiveness?
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On January 07 2013 03:01 Rulker wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2013 02:55 gh0un wrote:
Terrans have the highest spending quotient, really now?
Lets look at random diamond replay: queued units on the production buildings.
Lets look at random master replay: queued units on the production buildings.
Lets look at random grandmaster replay: queued units on the production buildings.
Lets take a look at IMMvps replays, queued units on the production buildings, at all stages of the game.
I wonder why terrans have the highest spending quotient, really dont have a clue at all.
Oh right, macroing as terran works differently than macroing as protoss or zerg, of which both have to macro at the exact moment when they actually have their larvae/warpins available, while terran can lazily queue all of that stuff up.
You constantly produce as terran, thats just how it is. Why such passive aggressiveness?
Didnt mean to be passive aggressive, i just thought it was pretty obvious why terrans have lower average unspent resources than the other two races.
Its also something that really annoys me when casters point it out during a game, "wow xyz terran has amazing macro, look at his resources, all of them spent" when in reality all of his resources are queued up in his production buildings and he has the worst macro in the history of terrans.
You cant keep track of unspent resources correctly for terran, because they can just queue their unspent resources up, and dont get me started with "pros never queue stuff up", even the best terrans start queueing when the game goes beyond 8 minutes.
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Cool site. Out of my last 11 games I got 9 games I had Grandmaster spending skill. Yet i'm in diamond league ^^. Spending your money isn't whats it's all about I guess.
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This tool is really great. When i was reading the OP i thought this must be a fake. Until now everyone told me that it is impossible to read out the spending quotient from replays. This webside is indeed awesome and real so!
I can't believe i missed it until now. This project needs/deserves a lot more attention.
Some suggestions i would love to see implemented:
Please add the actual numbers to the spending graph. That the most important feature to me.
The league symbol is not very accurate and the league SQ could possibly change overtime.
I want to keep track of my SQ in absolute numbers.
Filter out non sc2 games. I have acutally tower defenses and other custom games in my profil. :D
Easy solution would be to be able to manual delete games.
allow several bnet accounts per ggtracker account. A lot of people have smurfs or accounts in different regions.
A chrono boost graph similar to the injection graph 
Big thx to the creator(s) of this tool!
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+ Show Spoiler +On January 07 2013 03:27 OrbitalPlane wrote:This tool is really great. When i was reading the OP i thought this must be a fake. Until now everyone told me that it is impossible to read out the spending quotient from replays. This webside is indeed awesome and real so! I can't believe i missed it until now. This project needs/deserves a lot more attention. Some suggestions i would love to see implemented: Please add the actual numbers to the spending graph. That the most important feature to me. The league symbol is not very accurate and the league SQ could possibly change overtime. I want to keep track of my SQ in absolute numbers. Filter out non sc2 games. I have acutally tower defenses and other custom games in my profil. :D Me personally i only care about 1on1 ladder, but i guess some ppl are also interested in team games or custom sc2 games. So individual settings might be best. Easy solution would be to be able to manual delete games. allow several bnet accounts per ggtracker account. A lot of people have smurfs or accounts in different regions. A chrono boost graph similar to the injection graph Big thx to the creator(s) of this tool!
You can toggle Ladder and 1V1 if you only want these stats. And if you click on a particular match you can see your SQ in absolute numbers. If you have a premium account you have have several Bnet account per ggtracker account.
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On January 07 2013 02:41 Evangelist wrote:Not necessarily. There will always be a distribution which will result from a few things. 1. Interest in the game. I'm willing to suggest that those people who are more into Starcraft 2 (watch Day9, tournaments and so on) are likely to be more focused on "mechanics". A lot of the overlap you will see between leagues is due to this effect - people actively seeking promotion through macro. This is especially true of Terrans - FilterSC is more or less the standard terran macro build in lower leagues and it is extraordinarily SQ efficient. A terran following FilterSC standard 3 rax 1 fact 1 starport 50 SCVs with +1 can easily hit 75-85 SQ AND STILL LOSE because they either are too timid, attack late or various other reasons. 2. Percentage of games which last a certain time. In other analysis you note that the SQ of games has a tendency to drop off dramatically as the game lengthens. My question for you is, in your analysis, what percentage of those games by league got to that point? Remember that people don't really hit timings in Bronze League. They might be able to macro - they might even be able to put a huge number of units together but the moment they attack, their SQ will drop really fast. I don't think you're ever going to get an ideal fit. That's why I suggested some iterative measures above relating to Production Quotients and so on. Harder to do, but maybe we'll get some more information out of Blizzard at some point 
You are absolutely correct in saying that some of the variability is inherent in the data. For example, there will of course be some players in Gold league who macro better than those in Platinum league. Hence, there must be some overlap between leagues if we are to use SQ, which is a totally non-contextual measure of how well one is spending compared to income. Nevertheless, with this volume of data, it should be possible to formulate a more accurate version of SQ.
I thoroughly agree on the point regarding Blizzard. My hope is that they will make accessing this type of data easier for players and analysts alike. They may need a friendly nudge in the right direction though!
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thx for the response.
You can toggle Ladder and 1V1 if you only want these stats.
I was in the 1V1 modus. Missed the ladder one so.
Custom games are gone now.
And if you click on a particular match you can see your SQ in absolute numbers.
If i open one replay i can only find the "average unspent resources". This stat is not very useful to keep track of.
It's kinda natural that it increases the longer the game goes.
Right now i only see the spending skill icon. Maybe i am just blind. :D
If you have a premium account you have have several Bnet account per ggtracker account.
cool, good to know.
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Thanks for this site! this is great analyse tool and its always great to see actual lvl. I will definitely share it with friends
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On January 07 2013 04:10 raQn wrote:Thanks for this site! this is great analyse tool and its always great to see actual lvl. I will definitely share it with friends
Not really. If your econemy is shit, but you spend all of those 400 mins/min your SQ should be pretty high but you probably aren't that good as the number suggests.
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On January 07 2013 03:04 gh0un wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2013 03:01 Rulker wrote:On January 07 2013 02:55 gh0un wrote:
Terrans have the highest spending quotient, really now?
Lets look at random diamond replay: queued units on the production buildings.
Lets look at random master replay: queued units on the production buildings.
Lets look at random grandmaster replay: queued units on the production buildings.
Lets take a look at IMMvps replays, queued units on the production buildings, at all stages of the game.
I wonder why terrans have the highest spending quotient, really dont have a clue at all.
Oh right, macroing as terran works differently than macroing as protoss or zerg, of which both have to macro at the exact moment when they actually have their larvae/warpins available, while terran can lazily queue all of that stuff up.
You constantly produce as terran, thats just how it is. Why such passive aggressiveness? Didnt mean to be passive aggressive, i just thought it was pretty obvious why terrans have lower average unspent resources than the other two races. Its also something that really annoys me when casters point it out during a game, "wow xyz terran has amazing macro, look at his resources, all of them spent" when in reality all of his resources are queued up in his production buildings and he has the worst macro in the history of terrans. You cant keep track of unspent resources correctly for terran, because they can just queue their unspent resources up, and dont get me started with "pros never queue stuff up", even the best terrans start queueing when the game goes beyond 8 minutes.
They have to micro the hardest....I hope their macro isn't as hard lol
Even if they can queue up, very few in fact no one can macro like Flash
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Since tournaments are releasing reps, I would like to see the overall average per race then like top 8 sq average player list
Would be pretty nifty
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If you have a premium account you have have several Bnet account per ggtracker account.
cool, good to know.
Yes, but if you are on the specific match page, if you go over the League icon of your spending skill with your mouse, you will see the absolute number
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Well... the site says that I have a Spending Skill of a low Grandmaster, i am only high Plat though (but with 80% win-ratio). so maybe i can get to masters! i want it sooo bad :D
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On January 07 2013 04:15 CruelZeratul wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2013 04:10 raQn wrote:Thanks for this site! this is great analyse tool and its always great to see actual lvl. I will definitely share it with friends Not really. If your econemy is shit, but you spend all of those 400 mins/min your SQ should be pretty high but you probably aren't that good as the number suggests.
Thats right. And this is reason to consider only standard, macro games. I had 30 minute tvz, where during whole game I had 2200 resources per minute and average unspent res around 1000.
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On January 07 2013 04:22 SpadeAce wrote:Yes, but if you are on the specific match page, if you go over the League icon of your spending skill with your mouse, you will see the absolute number
i see thx! =)
Would be even better so if you could see it in the graph.
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On January 07 2013 04:15 CruelZeratul wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2013 04:10 raQn wrote:Thanks for this site! this is great analyse tool and its always great to see actual lvl. I will definitely share it with friends Not really. If your econemy is shit, but you spend all of those 400 mins/min your SQ should be pretty high but you probably aren't that good as the number suggests.
SQ is not just measuring the raw rate of spending. It is normalized by your income -- see the original thread. It is harder to spend a larger income, and SQ is defined to incorporate that fact.
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On January 07 2013 01:08 whatthefat wrote:This is nice to see. I have some thoughts on the results: + Show Spoiler +1) Looking at durations from about 8 to 20 minutes, where the great majority of games end, it is interesting to see how things have changed since September 2011. The improvement in average SQ for Grandmasters appears to be relatively small, if non-existent. Previously the average SQ was 82. For NA Terran players, it now appears to now be around 86, but for Protoss only about 78, and for Zerg about 82 (averaging across the downward sloping line). Since there are similar numbers of players of each race, this comes out to an average of about 82, i.e., no net improvement. Doing similar by-eye averages for the other NA leagues, I find the following improvements since the initial analysis. As I expected, the greatest gains have been achieved by the players in the lower leagues. As a result, the SQ spread has become narrower. Previously, the difference in SQ between the average Bronze and the average GM player was about 40 points. Now it looks to be about 26 points. For this reason, I think it may be necessary to develop a higher fidelity measure. When SQ was first proposed, it was an excellent metric for comparison between leagues and for tracking self-improvement. Now that the range of skill is narrowing, it may be worth looking for a way to increase its accuracy (see below). 2) In my initial analysis with 2084 games, I was not able to detect any significant effect of game duration or race on SQ. My later analysis suggested that there may be some disadvantage for Protoss, especially at the highest levels of play. With many more games, it is now interesting to see what appears to be a trend towards lower SQ for longer games in these results, especially for Zerg, and especially for lower leagues. Terran also definitely appears to have some advantage over Protoss, and over Zerg for longer game durations. Using these data, it should be possible to formulate an even more accurate version of SQ, possibly taking race and game duration into account. Some of the spread in the initial results by league may be mostly due to not accounting for these variables.
Hi whatthefat, GGTracker would be happy to share detailed data for analysis if you (or anyone!) would like to develop a higher fidelity measure.
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By this graph I have masters level macro...but I'm in gold league....
That being said I use crappy builds and my micro is non-existant...
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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/4cZ7K.png)
What happens that time?
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I was wondering the same thing.
This site is really cool. Will start using it from now on.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Ryjn1.png)
