On December 05 2012 19:44 Wombat_NI wrote: 100% agreed.
'Patchzergs' styles are a manifestation of design problems, but that have merely been put into bigger focus with the Queen patch. Hell, if you want to address that, reverting the Queen patch would do a better job. It mightn't solve everything, but I mean would Zerg suffer to anywhere near the same degree if it was reverted, than Terrans have suffered since it was added?
Yes, let's go back to coin-flip bling-wars and roach-busts against hellion and quick 3CCs. So great.
Wombat, you have to get a grip. If one zerg is imbalanced, all zergs are imbalanced, and the zerg players you like who aren't winning simply are not good enough. DRG plays infestor and BL too, he just doesn't win with it. If Scarlett & Vortix are patch-zergs, Life, Sniper & Symbol are patch-zergs. That is the biggest problem of this article, the implication of "Korea = master race" and that if foreign players are winning, there's a patch-problem. Never mind that the graphs are meaningless as absolutes (what is the relation between the number of matches played and matches won?). Never mind that the foreign zerg-players were always better than the foreign terrans, even when the patch-terrans were running rampant. Never mind that to this day, zerg is still the least represented race in GSL overall.
But then, there is no reason to confront those issues. After all, it's all irony anyways. It's not just balance-whine, it's cowardly balance-whine.
Not at all, I have always loved DRG because he's a monster. However his skillset isn't as rewarded as other Zergs are, his Mutalisk micro and mechanical chops are not AS rewarded relative to other Zergs. Leenock has always been a monster too. How come two Code S level Zergs, who were competitive even in the days where Zerg apparently sucked, are not DOMINATING with those skills, now?
Scarlett isn't a fair example either, as tbh she's very good mechanically, or at least her creep spread would attest to that. I believe she'd be, if not as good as she is now relative to Koreans, still a very good player.
A player this fast, this clean, should be unbeatable if the Zerg patches scaled properly upwards. Why isn't he?
Because zerg mid game requires massive apm (sort of like terran end game) to be effective. Zerg mid game without Infestor is like terran end game, massive apm is required/splitting/multitasking. Look at how much work DRG is doing to attack in 3 place, now imagined if he had 20 infestors. He can just a move into natural/third and use half of the apm to do as much damage. Remember pre mass infestors days? Zerg mid game were pretty bad and terran would push with a 3-3 army while zerg was on 2-1 and would just demolish everything. Nobody likes infestor because it makes boring games, but the infestor are needed because without infestor zerg lacks mobile anti air (corruptors cant chase down anything, mutas die, hydras... lol). Nobody would whine about the infestor nerf if zerg mid game were a bit more viable, infestors are just a bandaid solution because blizzard has no idea what is going on and they think the game is fine (lol) and are just throwing balance darts at the board and pray it works (or until we buy all 3 of their expansions). The Blizzard today are the people that released Diablo 3 (legal robbery) and the people that think that their bnet system is the greatest thing since cookies.
On December 06 2012 07:00 Skelith wrote: "Zergs can make absurd comebacks with ease; on the other hand, Terrans almost never do."
stopped reading after this.
Infestors are the ULTIMATE combeback unit, no other race has anything close. I've seen terran come back into a lost game only if the opponent fucks up bad...
On December 06 2012 07:00 Skelith wrote: "Zergs can make absurd comebacks with ease; on the other hand, Terrans almost never do."
stopped reading after this.
Infestors are the ULTIMATE combeback unit, no other race has anything close. I've seen terran come back into a lost game only if the opponent fucks up bad...
interesting idea of why korean zergs dont abuse infestors as much as foreigners, but it makes a lot of sense tbh. overall this is a brilliant read of what no one can deny: terran is going down the toilet and is starting to drag whole sc2 with them. in hots they are screwed even more, getting by far the worst new units. its especially sad, because there is no good alternative but only fucking mobas.
On December 06 2012 07:00 Skelith wrote: "Zergs can make absurd comebacks with ease; on the other hand, Terrans almost never do."
stopped reading after this.
Infestors are the ULTIMATE combeback unit, no other race has anything close. I've seen terran come back into a lost game only if the opponent fucks up bad...
Forgot about mules huh?
Lose your entire eco, no problem!
lol? Mules are a part of terrans eco (like larva mechanicsm is a part of zergs eco).. Also 3 mules just counts for 13-15 scvs. If you lost all your scvs then you are still going to be behind 3 OC's. This is a terrible argument.
Wait... is this an extremely elaborate troll or a heartfelt rage against zerg? Can't decide... either way it's going overboard in the second half with general statements and no context to the data provided.
On December 06 2012 07:00 Skelith wrote: "Zergs can make absurd comebacks with ease; on the other hand, Terrans almost never do."
stopped reading after this.
Infestors are the ULTIMATE combeback unit, no other race has anything close. I've seen terran come back into a lost game only if the opponent fucks up bad...
Forgot about mules huh?
Lose your entire eco, no problem!
lol? Mules are a part of terrans eco (like larva mechanicsm is a part of zergs eco).. Also 3 mules just counts for 13-15 scvs. If you lost all your scvs then you are still going to be behind 3 OC's. This is a terrible argument.
Yup.
Each mule counts very accurately for 4 scv's (mining from close mineral patches). Specifically, each OC generates the income of 4 SCV's. So 3 mules = 12 scvs.
People and even casters overrate mules a lot.
Yeah...compared to the ability to redirect all your minerals into producing drones, mules are weak. Larva mechanics make zerg far more resilient to harass than the other races are.
On December 06 2012 07:43 Turbo.Tactics wrote: Wait... is this an extremely elaborate troll or a heartfelt rage against zerg? Can't decide... either way it's going overboard in the second half with general statements and no context to the data provided.
Its always a treat to see that Ver has made a post. The God of the Battlefield is the best analytical article I have read on TL.
I don't know about the balance of the infestor. Tbh, terran was much more forgiving in Broodwar TvZ than zerg: but the match up was brilliant anyway (for the spectator, easily the best mu) because zergs could win with perfect play, even against perfect play from the terran and the play was fast paced and incredibly dynamic.
The infestor isn't dynamic. It is fucking horrible to watch. Especially in slow late gave zvp.... Of all the units that are bad in sc2, the infestor is by far the worst imo.
it is interesting to compare some units in sc2 and bw, it says something about the two games: infestor vs defiler banshee vs wraith muta vs muta
which units are more dynamic, which ones allows for most micro?
Can you imagine how good Flash REALLY would be if he came into the scene at the point before the ghost and queen change where actual mechanics, micro and intelligence was rewarded? He'd be the God he was meant to be, but right now he's chained by the game! Think about how fast he reached the level of professional play that current tier pros play at.
EPT
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/jGXvo.png)
