On December 05 2012 19:44 Wombat_NI wrote: 100% agreed.
'Patchzergs' styles are a manifestation of design problems, but that have merely been put into bigger focus with the Queen patch. Hell, if you want to address that, reverting the Queen patch would do a better job. It mightn't solve everything, but I mean would Zerg suffer to anywhere near the same degree if it was reverted, than Terrans have suffered since it was added?
Yes, let's go back to coin-flip bling-wars and roach-busts against hellion and quick 3CCs. So great.
Wombat, you have to get a grip. If one zerg is imbalanced, all zergs are imbalanced, and the zerg players you like who aren't winning simply are not good enough. DRG plays infestor and BL too, he just doesn't win with it. If Scarlett & Vortix are patch-zergs, Life, Sniper & Symbol are patch-zergs. That is the biggest problem of this article, the implication of "Korea = master race" and that if foreign players are winning, there's a patch-problem. Never mind that the graphs are meaningless as absolutes (what is the relation between the number of matches played and matches won?). Never mind that the foreign zerg-players were always better than the foreign terrans, even when the patch-terrans were running rampant. Never mind that to this day, zerg is still the least represented race in GSL overall.
But then, there is no reason to confront those issues. After all, it's all irony anyways. It's not just balance-whine, it's cowardly balance-whine.
Not at all, I have always loved DRG because he's a monster. However his skillset isn't as rewarded as other Zergs are, his Mutalisk micro and mechanical chops are not AS rewarded relative to other Zergs. Leenock has always been a monster too. How come two Code S level Zergs, who were competitive even in the days where Zerg apparently sucked, are not DOMINATING with those skills, now?
Scarlett isn't a fair example either, as tbh she's very good mechanically, or at least her creep spread would attest to that. I believe she'd be, if not as good as she is now relative to Koreans, still a very good player.
A player this fast, this clean, should be unbeatable if the Zerg patches scaled properly upwards. Why isn't he?
But we can still safely get the shamelessly response from Blizzard (i.e. David Kim): We havent seen zerg winning "ALL" tournaments, and how many times had I have to tell you, Terran is "FINE" !!!
Every Zerg who plays is inferior to their Terran / Protoss counterpart. Any game a Zerg wins over a Terran is due to imbalance. Any Zerg who goes infestor broodlord is massively inferior to their opponent in skill. Any zerg who plays infestor broodlord is stupid, lazy, and has bad mechanics. Koreans are the master race of starcraft 2 and would have a 99% winrate over foreigners if it wasnt for imbalance. Yea this article isn't biased or anything. /facepalm
On December 06 2012 03:41 TheSubtleArt wrote: Every Zerg who plays is inferior to their Terran / Protoss counterpart. Any game a Zerg wins over a Terran is due to imbalance. Any Zerg who goes infestor broodlord is massively inferior to their opponent in skill. Any zerg who plays infestor broodlord is stupid, lazy, and has bad mechanics. Koreans are the master race of starcraft 2 and would have a 99% winrate over foreigners if it wasnt for imbalance. Yea this article isn't biased or anything. /facepalm
It helps when you read the article.
The assumptions in the article aren't so narrow minded, look at the stats again, look at the overall idea of how terrible the design is, and then reply.
On December 06 2012 03:41 TheSubtleArt wrote: Every Zerg who plays is inferior to their Terran / Protoss counterpart. Any game a Zerg wins over a Terran is due to imbalance. Any Zerg who goes infestor broodlord is massively inferior to their opponent in skill. Any zerg who plays infestor broodlord is stupid, lazy, and has bad mechanics. Koreans are the master race of starcraft 2 and would have a 99% winrate over foreigners if it wasnt for imbalance. Yea this article isn't biased or anything. /facepalm
It helps when you read the article.
The assumptions in the article aren't so narrow minded, look at the stats again, look at the overall idea of how terrible the design is, and then reply.
You both don't get it. The stats are incomplete (where are the stats of before the patch?) and without the proper numbers. This doesn't matter because.. Yes, it's a joke.
On December 06 2012 03:41 TheSubtleArt wrote: Every Zerg who plays is inferior to their Terran / Protoss counterpart. Any game a Zerg wins over a Terran is due to imbalance. Any Zerg who goes infestor broodlord is massively inferior to their opponent in skill. Any zerg who plays infestor broodlord is stupid, lazy, and has bad mechanics. Koreans are the master race of starcraft 2 and would have a 99% winrate over foreigners if it wasnt for imbalance. Yea this article isn't biased or anything. /facepalm
It helps when you read the article.
The assumptions in the article aren't so narrow minded, look at the stats again, look at the overall idea of how terrible the design is, and then reply.
I read the entire article before posting dont worry. Its not only biased but borderline moronic, blatantly ignoring large chunks of evidence and history to the contrary and giving ridiculous interpretations of evidence where very simple ones exist. Unless this is supposed to be a troll / joke post, in which case i completely misinterpreted it. If it is, that would make this thread imcredibly funny and well written
On December 06 2012 04:10 Batch wrote: When Zerg was losing everything: Terran players make fun of them in a thread about zerg tears.
When Zerg was winning everything: Terran players disown their winnings and calls them patchzergs.
Why are Terran players so mean?
Haha I've been thinking this for the past few days. Funny how that works out isn't it? lol
Edit: I realize that this is most likely a satirical post, as some have pointed out, but there are obviously people taking it very seriously.
Atleast highest level of Terran play reguired far more precision mechanics and ability to execute. Not the case relying your entire game to fungals.
It was more interesting to watch to say atleast.
[Edit]
Plus we had tons of exciting play fe. like mutabling (which is too hard nowadays to pull of because ffffffffffffftttttttttttttt is kinda BIT easier to execute).
On December 06 2012 04:10 Batch wrote: When Zerg was losing everything: Terran players make fun of them in a thread about zerg tears.
When Zerg was winning everything: Terran players disown their winnings and calls them patchzergs.
Why are Terran players so mean?
Haha I've been thinking this for the past few days. Funny how that works out isn't it? lol
Edit: I realize that this is most likely a satirical post, as some have pointed out, but there are obviously people taking it very seriously.
Atleast highest level of Terran play reguired far more precision mechanics and ability to execute. Not the case relying your entire game to fungals.
It was more interesting to watch to say atleast.
[Edit]
Plus we had tons of exciting play fe. like mutabling (which is too hard nowadays to pull of because ffffffffffffftttttttttttttt is kinda BIT easier to execute).
I don't know, I've enjoyed watching SC2 even recently. It seems like everyone is crying for a fungal nerf but it seems like Zerg is so dependent on that ability. If you nerf fungal, how do you deal with bio? Banelings are useless against Terrans with good micro. I would love to see more muta/ling/bane but it seems like every Terran in the world has figured out how to stop it easily with decent control, which is sad to me because I love that style.
I'm not necessarily saying that they can't or shouldn't nerf fungal, I just think if they do they need to buff Zerg somewhere else to compensate if they do. At any rate, I'm not a pro player or experienced game designer so I probably shouldn't really be spouting off too much about these things. Just my thoughts I guess.
Either way I still enjoy the game, being bad means I don't have to worry about all of this higher level balance garbage lol.
On December 06 2012 04:10 Batch wrote: When Zerg was losing everything: Terran players make fun of them in a thread about zerg tears.
When Zerg was winning everything: Terran players disown their winnings and calls them patchzergs.
Why are Terran players so mean?
Haha I've been thinking this for the past few days. Funny how that works out isn't it? lol
Edit: I realize that this is most likely a satirical post, as some have pointed out, but there are obviously people taking it very seriously.
Atleast highest level of Terran play reguired far more precision mechanics and ability to execute. Not the case relying your entire game to fungals.
It was more interesting to watch to say atleast.
[Edit]
Plus we had tons of exciting play fe. like mutabling (which is too hard nowadays to pull of because ffffffffffffftttttttttttttt is kinda BIT easier to execute).
I don't know, I've enjoyed watching SC2 even recently. It seems like everyone is crying for a fungal nerf but it seems like Zerg is so dependent on that ability. If you nerf fungal, how do you deal with bio? Banelings are useless against Terrans with good micro. I would love to see more muta/ling/bane but it seems like every Terran in the world has figured out how to stop it easily with decent control, which is sad to me because I love that style.
I'm not necessarily saying that they can't or shouldn't nerf fungal, I just think if they do they need to buff Zerg somewhere else to compensate if they do. At any rate, I'm not a pro player or experienced game designer so I probably shouldn't really be spouting off too much about these things. Just my thoughts I guess.
Either way I still enjoy the game, being bad means I don't have to worry about all of this higher level balance garbage lol.
Going back to your original post. Thats propably why most of the terrans seems "mean" to you, because nobody wants or likes to watch game after game being decided on few silly fungals.
I also enjoy sc2 at times, but watching it has has become so boring and one dimensional. Even needless to say that lategame zerg is frustrating.
On December 06 2012 03:41 TheSubtleArt wrote: Every Zerg who plays is inferior to their Terran / Protoss counterpart. Any game a Zerg wins over a Terran is due to imbalance. Any Zerg who goes infestor broodlord is massively inferior to their opponent in skill. Any zerg who plays infestor broodlord is stupid, lazy, and has bad mechanics. Koreans are the master race of starcraft 2 and would have a 99% winrate over foreigners if it wasnt for imbalance. Yea this article isn't biased or anything. /facepalm
It helps when you read the article.
The assumptions in the article aren't so narrow minded, look at the stats again, look at the overall idea of how terrible the design is, and then reply.
You both don't get it. The stats are incomplete (where are the stats of before the patch?) and without the proper numbers. This doesn't matter because.. Yes, it's a joke.
wait... so it's irrelevant that foreign terran players can't beat koreans, but non-terrans can?
And it's irrelevant that korean terrans is the race which lose the most often to foreigners?
Terran is currently underpresented at every single division on the ladder except bronze (including korean GM). Go figure out why that is.
think the main problem is not that it's so imblalanced but that it's boring to play and boring to watch.
Now, I'm not trying to say SC2 should be like BW, but in BW going Corsair Reaver against zerg could be really op. HOWEVER, this was only if you were really good, I mean really, really good. Even top pros could not pull it off or at least make it look OP all the time. And it was fun to try, because it was hard. Though I always sucked at it.
The thing about infestors is they are a bit op, no honest person can argue otherwise, and they are easy to be op with. The same goes for broolord/infestor, it's a bit op and it's really easy to use in that fashion which makes it kinda boring. Contrary to sair/reaver which is very hard to use yet it is a bit op with done correctly this makes it enjoyable to play and to watch because you can appreciate the skill it requires.
tl;dr BLord/infestor easy and a bit op = boring, Sair/reaver = very hard and a bit op = interesting
On December 06 2012 04:10 Batch wrote: When Zerg was losing everything: Terran players make fun of them in a thread about zerg tears.
When Zerg was winning everything: Terran players disown their winnings and calls them patchzergs.
Why are Terran players so mean?
Oh your poor victim, let's look at this with another perspective, shall we?
When Terran was winning everything: Zerg players disown their winnings and calls them no skill race.
When Terran was losing everything: Zerg players make fun of them in a thread about Terran tears.
It's the same, it's just now that after nerfing Terran and buffing Zerg a lot, the roles are reversed.
Actually, he's kinda right. When Terran was strong Terrans were all "L2p noob." And really I don't see zerg players doing that much at all right now. All that happens is a couple of them defend zerginess, while the rest don't say much because they can except that infestor and infestor/bl is a bit op right now. Where as when Terran was strong they barely tried to argue and instead just L2p noob'd a bunch. However, that probably says more about how the community has matured than that zergs are more manner than Terrans.
EPT
