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On December 05 2012 03:12 Shady Sands wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2012 02:18 Ayoeme wrote:
Give it a rest for the last months of WoL... Damnit. You should be more focused on thinking about what Terran lacks in HOTS. They are nearly unchanged and widow mines being pretty bullshit is carrying them. (Infestor deja-vu) I mean, beta is out there so people think, right? Much better than wasting your thoughts on what has been said 150'000'006 times over and over again. What if I don't want to shell out another 60 bucks to play a balanced RTS? People who raise this point miss the fact that many of us don't want to pay Blizzard a single cent in sales until they fix their issues with Wings of Liberty.
I'm not either. I don't feel any need to buy the game anymore, not with how both HoTs and WoL stand now. Saving my money for CoH2.
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Good article, it kinda resume my feelings when I was playing mid master level terran on EU 6 months ago, i've totally stopped playing just because it's 0 fun getting crushed by zerg/protoss aclick deathball.
I totally agree on your point when you say that the caster show some enthusiasm when a zerg/protoss player do a good fungal/storm "Hoooo what an amazing storm" meanwhile the terran player use his 5 arms to try to dodge them.
I use to enjoy watching some matches involving terrans but not anymore, watching a TvZ now is always the same thing, the terran player is going to try to harass the zerg player with hellions but her 5 queens reboot him then make a banshee kill 4-5 drones until the spore spawn, then try to build an army knowing thats already 15min game and the broodlord/infestor combo is going to come for the rape ... wow that was fun ...
The only thing i've expected for HotS is : balancing micro-macro management between the 3 races, have they done it ? Hell no !
Some of the new protoss units require somewhat micro (oracle) but still not solve the mid-endgame deathball (gateway units / colossus / HT) problem, whatever how your micro is good you can still be crushed by this composition even if the protoss a click, I find this ridiculous
For the zerg, it's even worst, how can you balance the micro management by adding a second brooldlord to their units, it must be a joke, the viper ? Come on look at the pro streaming some HotS, they dont use it, why bother with thoses micro units when you can just turtle waiting for your god-like T3 army ...
I really hope Blizz gonna wake up soon because I wont expect March 2013 to finally have some balance
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lan mode into home made ladder (garena/iccup like) with game reworked by game lovers à la counter strike/dota
last hope
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What a great article Ver is a genius
VerGenius
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I personally prefer watching life and leenock play compared to stephano. Watching those 2 play really shows you what a truly skilled Zerg can do. Not saying stephano isn't skilled but I prefer watching more unique play from a Korean than standard play from a white player.
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I'm not sure if he is trolling or what.
Blizzard deliberately rigging the game?
Then why did they just nerf infestors to hell?
This guy has some serious rage issues...
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This article was so true and on point that 24 hours later Blizzard released a random infestor nerf patch to stop the outcry xD
Infested terran health is the new bunker build time.
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This article is very good and I can't help but think Blizzard nerfing infestor when they hadn't even been testing a range nerf is a direct result of this thread.
Spot on.
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Ver, it would have been funny if you only wrote the part where you accused Blizzard of being racist.
There's like 2 whole pages of graphs and screenshots and like, complainy yet noninsane opinions about the game being shitty/boring. Most people probably didn't read past there. Focus man, focus.
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On December 05 2012 05:37 MrCon wrote:
This article was so true and on point that 24 hours later Blizzard released a random infestor nerf patch to stop the outcry xD
Infested terran health is the new bunker build time.
What is "random" about the infestor nerf patch? Blizz has been talking about nerfing infestors for a little while now, and people have been complaining about infestors for many months. Or do you mean that the actual changes to the infestor were "random", because in that case I also disagree. They nerfed both fungal and ITs in meaningful but relatively minor ways, as to nerf the infestor but not break the balance entirely.
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This thread is what they were referring to in this statement
The quality of feedback we’ve received have allowed us to make this call.
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On December 05 2012 05:44 SpikeStarcraft wrote:This thread is what they were referring to in this statement
Yeah indeed this was a really quality post. Thumbs up^^
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I don't see how 70HP will make much of a difference in Storm vs ITeggs.
Eggs take 5 secs to hatch and Storm is 80 DOT which means unless you already have HT in place and immediately storm, the eggs will simply hatch into infested marines at full health and you wasted your energy.
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On December 05 2012 00:15 FinalForm wrote:
It's not satire, or it's just poor satire, because the first half is actually completely true (that zerg is so easy to play even foreigners can master it), then the second half turns to trolling (poking fun at overly whiny terrans that will go as far to call blizzard racist). There are un-creative starwars references in it to add to an otherwise bland balance whine. Basically just saying that starcraft 2 is a shit game.
Not to single you out in particular over all of the other people complaining about the quality of the satire in the OP, but what you've written in bold is exactly what makes it so brilliant--it starts out making a strong well-argued point, then it begins to descend into greater and greater hilarity. The reader finishes the piece not in a mood to yell and rage at blizzard or weep for the future of SC2 in the face of other games, but laughing with the author about the ridiculousness of the situation. It allows the audience to ponder on a serious issue in a joking manner, giving the piece a multifaceted appeal.
Read for example, one of the most famous pieces of satire from one of the greatest satirists:
A Modest Proposal
The text in red is where the transition begins. Ver's piece is different in that he spends more time fleshing out his argument using pictures/statistics/specific examples to back it, but the general form is the same. His equivalent of Swift's red paragraph would be this one:
"The fungal buff was, without question, a "white people change." Just as foreigners never got any good at playing the difficult muta/ling/bling and immediately started to abuse the infestor upon buff, Koreans despised the infestor. Even when fungal was made so overpowered it had to be nerfed to keep suspicion in check, Koreans blissfully continued using muta/ling/bling exclusively. For these honorable men, it was shameful to win after getting outplayed horribly. They wanted to use their superior intelligence and skill to dominate their opponents; or maybe they're just stubborn, who knows. These Korean Zergs only began picking up the infestor after it was abundantly clear how much better, safer, and easier, it was over muta/ling/bling. Even now, certain Korean Zergs rigidly fixate on muta/ling/bling, showing that some Zergs still have principles and want to earn their wins. Unfortunately, as they are discovering, it's pretty hard."
I'm seeing multiple people in this thread complain about the writing of this piece in two different ways: some people clearly wanted a more analytical piece, while others clearly wanted a complete joke (like the reddit thread that was linked about ways to buff fungal). To be honest.... those people either just don't understand how satire can be used to make an argumentative piece more engaging and more fun to read, or they didn't read the full OP properly.
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On December 05 2012 05:52 Rorschach wrote:
I don't see how 70HP will make much of a difference in Storm vs ITeggs.
Eggs take 5 secs to hatch and Storm is 80 DOT which means unless you already have HT in place and immediately storm, the eggs will simply hatch into infested marines at full health and you wasted your energy.
Not completely sure, but does the egg countdown start AFTER they've landed?
If so you can storm the second you see the Eggs being thrown (before they actually land), which should allow the storm to hit early enough, but again I'm not sure on this.
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Was a great article until you repeated the same thing for the fifth time. Either way, I completely agree with the points made.
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On December 05 2012 05:55 Thezzy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2012 05:52 Rorschach wrote:
I don't see how 70HP will make much of a difference in Storm vs ITeggs.
Eggs take 5 secs to hatch and Storm is 80 DOT which means unless you already have HT in place and immediately storm, the eggs will simply hatch into infested marines at full health and you wasted your energy. Not completely sure, but does the egg countdown start AFTER they've landed? If so you can storm the second you see the Eggs being thrown (before they actually land), which should allow the storm to hit early enough, but again I'm not sure on this.
ITs also spawn with whatever health the egg had, not at full hp. As far as I understand, they'll still hatch, but will die pretty much instantaneously if you're quick about hitting the storms.
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The OP is rather silly, but I guess it was meant that way.
There is an argument to be made on the fungal though. The reason you see the comparison between banelings as good and the fungal as bad has a reason. It's something most of us intuitively experience and I recently saw it expressed beautifully as counterplay. It basicly just comes down to the old argument that fungal leaves few (no) options for the enemy.
The concept is explained in more detail than a post would permit. It wouldn't do it justice either, so here it is:
http://penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/counter-play
edit:
Hmm, this post should've been in the "[D] Does the infestor have any place in HotS?" thread from the HotS forum. Oh well..
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The example pictures and the charts were great, I think, because it aligns so well with my experience of watching the GSL the last three seasons.
Watching vZ's been like this (simple checklist flowchart):
1. is the protoss/terran going beyond three bases? Close stream, read some newspapers and return a while later to casters discussing the failed vortex / the suberbly placed fungals.
Actually, that's the end of the list. I can't remember a single game of XvZ that I haven't been regretful about seeing afterwards.
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On December 05 2012 05:55 xxpack09 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2012 00:15 FinalForm wrote:
It's not satire, or it's just poor satire, because the first half is actually completely true (that zerg is so easy to play even foreigners can master it), then the second half turns to trolling (poking fun at overly whiny terrans that will go as far to call blizzard racist). There are un-creative starwars references in it to add to an otherwise bland balance whine. Basically just saying that starcraft 2 is a shit game. Not to single you out in particular over all of the other people complaining about the quality of the satire in the OP, but what you've written in bold is exactly what makes it so brilliant--it starts out making a strong well-argued point, then it begins to descend into greater and greater hilarity. The reader finishes the piece not in a mood to yell and rage at blizzard or weep for the future of SC2 in the face of other games, but laughing with the author about the ridiculousness of the situation. It allows the audience to ponder on a serious issue in a joking manner, giving the piece a multifaceted appeal. Read for example, one of the most famous pieces of satire from one of the greatest satirists: A Modest ProposalThe text in red is where the transition begins. Ver's piece is different in that he spends more time fleshing out his argument using pictures/statistics/specific examples to back it, but the general form is the same. His equivalent of Swift's red paragraph would be this one: "The fungal buff was, without question, a "white people change." Just as foreigners never got any good at playing the difficult muta/ling/bling and immediately started to abuse the infestor upon buff, Koreans despised the infestor. Even when fungal was made so overpowered it had to be nerfed to keep suspicion in check, Koreans blissfully continued using muta/ling/bling exclusively. For these honorable men, it was shameful to win after getting outplayed horribly. They wanted to use their superior intelligence and skill to dominate their opponents; or maybe they're just stubborn, who knows. These Korean Zergs only began picking up the infestor after it was abundantly clear how much better, safer, and easier, it was over muta/ling/bling. Even now, certain Korean Zergs rigidly fixate on muta/ling/bling, showing that some Zergs still have principles and want to earn their wins. Unfortunately, as they are discovering, it's pretty hard."I'm seeing multiple people in this thread complain about the writing of this piece in two different ways: some people clearly wanted a more analytical piece, while others clearly wanted a complete joke (like the reddit thread that was linked about ways to buff fungal). To be honest.... those people either just don't understand how satire can be used to make an argumentative piece more engaging and more fun to read, or they didn't read the full OP properly.
Doesn't change the fact that the thread is really poorly executed. Having the 2 part split satire split analysis creates a confusion about the overall message. Generally confusion is the absolutely worst enemy of any sort of write-up no matter the kind, because it always conceals the message. I would say it was a bad decision to go with the hole split thread decision. Satire is something that needs to be clear when used. You can't use satire and pretend to be serriuos half the way. That is just bad trolling.
Also guys would you stop being ridiculous? This thread is less than a day old it have not had ANY impact on the changes announced today. Blizzard have most likely been working on this decision for the better part of last week using all the feedback they got. As for these changes not being tested, well let me remind you of some history.
The queen change was in the testing map for 4 days... That was basicly equivilant of saying "Alright the decision is made throw it on the servers... Oh it is Thurdays well guess we have to wait... The test map? sure why not" With that little time they could not really have had time for any futher decisions.
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EPT
