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On December 04 2012 08:14 fighter2_40 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 08:09 Luppy1 wrote:On December 04 2012 07:57 Valikyr wrote:On December 04 2012 07:54 Luppy1 wrote:
Is it wrong to think that if someone played a handicapped race from the beginning, got seriously gimped by it and eventually the game becomes more balanced, they will naturally be in a much better position since they're so used to playing handicapped? Yes, just look at the games being played and it's obvious. Just from personal experience as a protoss player that rarely ever off-races. My ZvP is still almost at the level of my PvZ ^^ I doubt it. But, people claim whatever they want on the internet. Personally, I don't even feel like I'm playing a strategy game when I'm not playing zerg. When play t/p against zerg, I can pretty much do whatever I want and it's the zerg player's job to stop me. If they prepare inadequately, they almost always lose outright. This alone already makes zerg harder to play than the other races. The micro intensive marine splits, I hardly even see them happen, only marine kiting. Just wondering if you play all the races at an equal level and what rank you are. "zergs job to stop a push" is pretty straight forward and has been figured out. >> scout 2 base toss play, make zergling roach cut drones at <60. >> scout expanding protoss > tech infestor ling and bust or just roach ling bust >> scout terran 1 base: tech lair faster and make more queens, put down baneling nest and evo chamber >> scout terran 2 base: take third base, make infestor get upgrades. Queens defend basically everything off 1 base - 2 base terran tech except for marauders, which such dick vs lings. infestors defend everything. Period.
Because you clump up everything, right? Considering how it takes 3 fungal just to kill 1 hellion, if the opponent has only infestors and you lost. Its your fault more than anything else.
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This was a great read. I really miss the good old TvZ!
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On December 04 2012 08:26 MrCon wrote:
Those graphs are so amazing (and telling, even tho people at least intuitively knew that).
I could nearly believe in the white guys theory. Why not, it's cheaper than actually balancing the game, and in our world, when it's cheaper, it's probable :D
Perhaps there is something more I don't get, it happened a lot to me today to miss sarcasm xD
Those graphs are also somewhat misleading as they do not take into account total number of games played by particular race. There is smaller number of top level performing terrans in foreign scene. But I think even with normalization the graph would probably still support the point.
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On December 04 2012 08:19 Al Bundy wrote:
That's funny I(ve always thought that they buffed Queens and Overlords because the then-transitioning KeSPA were complaining about Z being too weak
That's the tragedy.
When Kespa transitioned, I was all "Come on, give a chance to sc2, perhaps you'll be positively surprised" to my bw friends (or here in the bw forums). I'm pretty sure kespa players also thought it wasn't that bad, and especially TvZ obviously, but at least it gave hope that "Blizzard gets it" and that the game could evolve in the right direction.
Then all this happened, and my friends think I was lying to them, and I'm sure Kespa players would think about it twice had the switch happened today (or they'd all pick zerg xD). Seriously, if you're a terran Kespa player and you changed your whole career for this, you want to commit subaru.
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The whole wanting to make foreigners better than koreans thing is a bit much, but everything else is good.
I'd say that the biggest thing to take out of this article and the point that I agree with most (irregardless of race) is the following: SC2 has been made so much easier than its predecessor that looking at pros go at it simply isn't that impressive.
I can't remember the last time I actually went HOLY SHIT! How does he do that?? while watching an SC2 match. Sure there's some great play and some hectic multitasking, but nothing that blew my mind and made me feel like these guys are on a completely different level than us mere mortals. Compare that to brood war and you'll know what I mean.
Yes, I realize people are just going to shrug it off as another nostalgic brood war elitist, but everyone knows it's true.
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If this was a troll post, there was wayyyyyyy too much effort put into the trolling. xD
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This game is turning into something unbearable to watch or play. I used to ladder daily and watch everything I could, and now I hardly watch anything, because games are no longer interesting. They are the same every single time...
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You make some valid points but I don't see the point of this thread. The patch-zerg phenomenon is apparent to anyone that follows the game so why do you spend hours writing an essay reiterating the plainly obvious then discrediting yourself with Blizzard fungal conspiracy.
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On December 04 2012 08:29 Luppy1 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 08:14 fighter2_40 wrote:On December 04 2012 08:09 Luppy1 wrote:On December 04 2012 07:57 Valikyr wrote:On December 04 2012 07:54 Luppy1 wrote:
Is it wrong to think that if someone played a handicapped race from the beginning, got seriously gimped by it and eventually the game becomes more balanced, they will naturally be in a much better position since they're so used to playing handicapped? Yes, just look at the games being played and it's obvious. Just from personal experience as a protoss player that rarely ever off-races. My ZvP is still almost at the level of my PvZ ^^ I doubt it. But, people claim whatever they want on the internet. Personally, I don't even feel like I'm playing a strategy game when I'm not playing zerg. When play t/p against zerg, I can pretty much do whatever I want and it's the zerg player's job to stop me. If they prepare inadequately, they almost always lose outright. This alone already makes zerg harder to play than the other races. The micro intensive marine splits, I hardly even see them happen, only marine kiting. Just wondering if you play all the races at an equal level and what rank you are. "zergs job to stop a push" is pretty straight forward and has been figured out. >> scout 2 base toss play, make zergling roach cut drones at <60. >> scout expanding protoss > tech infestor ling and bust or just roach ling bust >> scout terran 1 base: tech lair faster and make more queens, put down baneling nest and evo chamber >> scout terran 2 base: take third base, make infestor get upgrades. Queens defend basically everything off 1 base - 2 base terran tech except for marauders, which such dick vs lings. infestors defend everything. Period. Because you clump up everything, right? Considering how it takes 3 fungal just to kill 1 hellion, if the opponent has only infestors and you lost. Its your fault more than anything else.
Sorry but your post makes no sense at all. Terran and Toss clump up everything or not it's depend on the map and choke points. Sometimes they have to use a large group of army for 1 hotkey and imagine you're moving across and have to split your army every sec, how long would it take? And 3 fungals to kill 1 hellion, what does that have anything to do with just infestor and you lost? Infestor can kill hellions and everything all day. And have you seen games where Zerg won with just mass infestors? Oh yeah there're plenty, and how's that Terran's fault?
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On December 04 2012 08:12 oogieogie wrote:
not even going to read past the title.."RISE OF THE PATCHZERGS"..fucking really?
Sweet fuck...
Spoiler: Animal Farm is NOT only about a farm full of animals.
Here's a rare phrase of wisdom I learned from a tibbetten monk who was seeking wisdom with me in the Himalayas: Don't judge a book by its cover.
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On December 04 2012 06:21 Na_Dann_Ma_GoGo wrote:
Man this thread really could need fewer comments in which people declare their superiority by telling everyone how very well they understand the OP.
Agreed. I have seen very few people who have actually tried to show what they believe the OP is saying, or what they exactly agree with. And I have not seen a single person analyze/explain how much of the post is satire, what parts are serious, and what the message is here. If people were to try to, I bet we'd be seeing many many different answers, and then all these people will feel quite silly. It seems that many don't even show in their post that they recognize there is some degree of satire in this. So whether they're agreeing with the satire or what the thread says (or a combination) if you were to take it just as it reads is unclear.
On December 04 2012 06:41 OrangeNinja21 wrote:
I think it's apparent people here are not seeing that Ver's trying to be funny. I am truly sorry for those that don't see that this is a joke lol. ALL HAIL FUNGAL GROWTH
Then please, explain to us what Ver is trying to say in his post. We can see the instances of humor, whether it failed or succeeded, but what does it mean?
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On December 04 2012 08:20 President Dead wrote:
Listen Ver, I know you're trying to make an attempt at serious analysis but throughout the entire article you made assumption after assumption that you take as fact and don't acknowledge an alternative to your own beliefs.
" TvZ, the flagship matchup of Starcraft 2"
Why? Cause you said? There's suppose to be a flagship match?
"If this shift had to be explained by one reason, it would indisputably be the infestor and fungal growth."
You're the authority on this? If you say indisputably than every one agree's?
"In order to maintain the illusion that the game was fair while executing its diabolic plan, Blizzard has incessantly claimed that their illusive statistics show the game is balanced at all levels"
You're telepathic? You know why people say things even when they tell you other-wise? You speak for them?
"How glorious would it have been for every player and fan of Starcraft 2, excluding casters, for Blizzard to promptly remove fungal growth from the game and compensate more badass Zerg units like the mutalisk and baneling accordingly. "
Yes, you would think it's glorious. You would think it would revitalize the game. While many people agree with you, if you're going to write a serous critique at least put yourself in 1st person perspective and not speak for others who aren't you.
"A fool might blame Byun for being sloppy and "letting" himself getting fungaled. However, look at the margin for error here: sloppy in this case meant looking away for less than a second."
You mean like any other thing in the game? The second involved in see'ing Ht's and running away? The second involved in spotting Ghost and running from an EMP? You can't run from fungal? You can't see the Infestor on the map? Crying "Woe, I am victim" is a great way to remove responsibility from a situation.
Furthermore, the examples you are selecting are to make your own point. If I wanted to counter what you are writing all I will have to do is respond by taking other matches in which Infestors are dealt with properly. There are an incredible amount of games. I'd use only the supported evidence to voice my view.
You lost all credibility by not admitting that infestors is the most unforgiving unit in the game.
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On December 04 2012 08:37 TheDougler wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 08:12 oogieogie wrote:
not even going to read past the title.."RISE OF THE PATCHZERGS"..fucking really? Sweet fuck... Spoiler: Animal Farm is NOT only about a farm full of animals. Here's a rare phrase of wisdom I learned from a tibbetten monk who was seeking wisdom with me in the Himalayas: Don't judge a book by its cover.
Animal Farm isn't a sensationalist title.
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I'll happily take an Infestor nerf if everything else gets buffed.
Even with "Money" fungals it didn't stop players like Polt, Bomber, or Mvp from overrunning the zerg with extremely easy que rallying halfway across the map.
This post is very biased indeed. In addition Ver has not been close to really winning much even when Terran was at it's strongest. Unless I'm mistaken.
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Ver
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On December 04 2012 08:40 Serpico wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 08:37 TheDougler wrote:On December 04 2012 08:12 oogieogie wrote:
not even going to read past the title.."RISE OF THE PATCHZERGS"..fucking really? Sweet fuck... Spoiler: Animal Farm is NOT only about a farm full of animals. Here's a rare phrase of wisdom I learned from a tibbetten monk who was seeking wisdom with me in the Himalayas: Don't judge a book by its cover. Animal Farm isn't a sensationalist title.
It's also not the point.
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The main reason why I switched to Dota 2 since 2 weeks or so, is exactly the same, as what the thread described.
(e)Z e r g d o m i n a n c e . . . .
But that's not the most disturbing part of the current SC2, the disturbing thing is that Blizz actually think that this is right for 6 months... WHOLE 6 MONTHS. No thx, I prefer to go to Valve's side.
So far Dota 2 has quite decent every week or so patches which always improve the game for greater good. And Valve make me feel like they actually care about Dota2's balance.
P.S do not switch to LoL.... do not!
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On December 04 2012 08:42 tuestresfat wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 08:40 Serpico wrote:On December 04 2012 08:37 TheDougler wrote:On December 04 2012 08:12 oogieogie wrote:
not even going to read past the title.."RISE OF THE PATCHZERGS"..fucking really? Sweet fuck... Spoiler: Animal Farm is NOT only about a farm full of animals. Here's a rare phrase of wisdom I learned from a tibbetten monk who was seeking wisdom with me in the Himalayas: Don't judge a book by its cover. Animal Farm isn't a sensationalist title. It's also not the point.
The point is it's hard to take seriously with how slanted it is. Don't try to sound legitimate when you make every attempt not to with how you phrase everything is the point. Then end it with a LOL JUST A JOKE SEE part at the end with the helping foreigners win part. He's trying to slip fact in with satire but it just looks lame.
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Great article. It's a harsh reality that a lot of ignorant kids here still find it hard to accept. Really feel bad to players who have worked hard like Scarlett but it rings just way too true atm.
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On December 04 2012 08:37 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 06:11 iEchoic wrote:
Absolutely fantastic article. Clearly articulated what was intuitive knowledge by many players for a long time. Well-written, well-sourced, well-argued. I particularly like that this article substantiates the 'ease of play' argument that is so difficult to substantiate. Agreed. I have not seen a single person who has actually tried to show what they believe the OP is saying, or what they exactly agree with. If they were to, I bet we'd be seeing many many different answers, and then all these people will feel quite silly. Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 06:41 OrangeNinja21 wrote:
I think it's apparent people here are not seeing that Ver's trying to be funny. I am truly sorry for those that don't see that this is a joke lol. ALL HAIL FUNGAL GROWTH Then please, explain to us what Ver is trying to say in his post. We can see the instances of humor, whether it failed or succeeded, but what does it mean?
hahaha if iechoic says it, you know its true.
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EPT
