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France13018 Posts
On December 04 2012 08:41 KT(Rolster)HaunteR wrote:I'll happily take an Infestor nerf if everything else gets buffed. Even with "Money" fungals it didn't stop players like Polt, Bomber, or Mvp from overrunning the zerg with extremely easy que rallying halfway across the map. This post is very biased indeed. In addition Ver has not been close to really winning much even when Terran was at it's strongest. Unless I'm mistaken. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Ver
And in which way exactly his success has something to do with the validity of his claims?
If you want the short version, made by a far more successful terran, read Bomber's posts.
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The belief that Blizzard predicted the gradual rise of zerg due to the Infestor changes is so silly that I call troll...but if it's not a troll, the OP should really address this counterargument lol.
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One of the best reads I had on TL. Good work!
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On December 04 2012 08:45 m3rciless wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 08:37 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:On December 04 2012 06:11 iEchoic wrote:
Absolutely fantastic article. Clearly articulated what was intuitive knowledge by many players for a long time. Well-written, well-sourced, well-argued. I particularly like that this article substantiates the 'ease of play' argument that is so difficult to substantiate. Agreed. I have not seen a single person who has actually tried to show what they believe the OP is saying, or what they exactly agree with. If they were to, I bet we'd be seeing many many different answers, and then all these people will feel quite silly. On December 04 2012 06:41 OrangeNinja21 wrote:
I think it's apparent people here are not seeing that Ver's trying to be funny. I am truly sorry for those that don't see that this is a joke lol. ALL HAIL FUNGAL GROWTH Then please, explain to us what Ver is trying to say in his post. We can see the instances of humor, whether it failed or succeeded, but what does it mean? hahaha if iechoic says it, you know its true.
Oops, i quoted the wrong person -- going to fix now.
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United States7483 Posts
Most of it's true, with only his conclusion and argument being satire. All of the facts he use are actually accurate.
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First i wanna say that Tvz is not the only match-up in sc2 and its not about balance(not dircetly). And i don´t care who wins in case of parentage.
I have to admit i stopped watching mainly starcraft after the queenpatch. Came back a 2months later and saw terrans developed. They adapted the best way they could. And made sc2 most boring to watch since beta. In starcraft we have those phases of the game which you can mostly predict.Even if they change sometimes because the metagame changes but most of the time they are consistent and just few details are different from game to game, which are the interesting things.
before the patch it was like. Terran had two options:
1. Harrass the zerg in the early stages of the game and trie to delay zerg tier3
2. Go hard macro(exe first, late gas ...) and have a strong army before zerg has tier 3
After the patch it was not possible to pressure zergs until 10mins(zerg go late gas and can defend almost everything until 10mins with queens) so both sides went full macro and no one attacks each other until 10mins or later. That is boring after you saw it 10times( no matter how nice perfect macro can be to watch, its just a perfect execution of a systematical thing).
Now the second stage both try to get map control. But think about it. Both players had perfect conditions to tech up and build an army. We are at the tenth minute mark now. Under perfect conditions a zerg can max out and get broodlords at 16-17minutes. Because of the easy- and boring- early game the interesting phase of the game is only 6mins. until the uphill battle for the terran begins. If you want to be extreme: The terra has 6minutes(starcraft minutes!) to win the game.
If the terran lives longer and tries to build up ravens and can keep up with lategame zerg the game will get into his next phase.
Both side will build up their lategame army for another 5-10mins. The zerg keeps getting stronger while the terran has to wait until raves get energy and all upgrades. Maybe he tries to harrass while doing so but it won´t end the game(usually).
After this phase there will be one big battle which probably decides the game.
my(personal) conclusion:
What i have as a viewer are 6mins + 1min of interesting this to watch.
The biggest difference i see as a viewer compared to broodwar is that sc2 is faster. And this patch slowed down the action packed phases which makes it boring to watch.
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The real issue with this is that it delays God of the battlefield part 2.
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On December 04 2012 08:41 KT(Rolster)HaunteR wrote:I'll happily take an Infestor nerf if everything else gets buffed. Even with "Money" fungals it didn't stop players like Polt, Bomber, or Mvp from overrunning the zerg with extremely easy que rallying halfway across the map. This post is very biased indeed. In addition Ver has not been close to really winning much even when Terran was at it's strongest. Unless I'm mistaken. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Ver
Aw, snap!!!
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On December 04 2012 08:37 TheDougler wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 08:12 oogieogie wrote:
not even going to read past the title.."RISE OF THE PATCHZERGS"..fucking really? Sweet fuck... Spoiler: Animal Farm is NOT only about a farm full of animals. Here's a rare phrase of wisdom I learned from a tibbetten monk who was seeking wisdom with me in the Himalayas: Don't judge a book by its cover.
And what about an emotional title? Animal Farm would have been a better title. A title is bad when it actually turns people away. There are differences... Sweet fuck...
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Your use of statistics is flawed. Zerg is more popular than terran outside of korea, while terran is more popular than zerg inside of korea. This naturally leads to more korean terran losses vs foreign zergs than the other way around. It would be better if you compared win-rates.
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You have some great points and stats in this article but threw half your credibility out the window with your blatant pro-korean, whitu piggu bias that fills the bottom half of the article :/
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GOM need to surf the wave and give a lot of money to Stephano, Scarlet, Nerchio so they go play in code S ! That should be a profitable investment.
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This has gotten my goat!
Okay so u put a lot of thought into this and you clearly have a passion for the game. That's great. You want to see balance in the game. We all do. But what you are quintessentially saying is that the recent rise of top zerg players is solely due to the fact that infestors need nerfing. When speedy reapers could be pumped from multiple rax, did we whine about patch terrans? When HT could be warped in and instantly storm the sh*t out of everything, did we whine about patch protosses? When ghosts destroyed all top tier zerg units did we call bomber and MMA patch terran? No. I find the term patch zerg offensive, and I'm a crap SC2 player so imagine how Leenock & Sniper feel. Top zerg players have figured out that the most powerful combination in the game is BL festor and they have figured out how to use them. The fact that Blizzard has no clue how to see this kind of thing coming does not detract from their achievements. I wish it weren't so and the swarm could be true to it's origins. I agree that fungal and IT's are powerful. But your rant, albeit intellectual is defamatory and in essence a balance whine.
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United States8477 Posts
On December 04 2012 08:50 bo1b wrote:
The real issue with this is that it delays God of the battlefield part 2.
It actually doesn't. The real bottleneck with GotB2 is graphics. It's pretty much done and I can even read it right now.
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Not sure why ppl think this is a troll post or supposed to be funny, even if the author intended it to be. The conspiracy theory towards the end is a bit far-fetched, although it's entirely possible. Everything else Ver writes about is true, whether he's joking or not. Foreigner vs Korean win-rates by race are a perfect indicator of the state of the game.
To the idiot who wrote "too small sample size, not enough foreign terrans", well yeah there's a reason you don't see foreigner terrans.
And yes, WHINING, I believe is the essential driving force of blizzards decisions. When terran was OP for so long, EVERYBODY whined, and Blizz granted the terran nerfs eventaully. Protoss even made a "Sad Zealot Fan-Club" for the unbeatable 1-1-1, so Blizz granted increased immortal range. People whined about Khadarian Amulet, Snipe, MULES, all got nerfed or removed.
If terrans don't whine now, we wont get buffed simple as that.
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Extremely well written write up! I certainly miss those days when players actually could micro their marines against Muta/ling/bling.... Really wish that was still true. Now it is just F click and A move with IT everywhere.
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On December 04 2012 08:53 VoirDire wrote:
Your use of statistics is flawed. Zerg is more popular than terran outside of korea, while terran is more popular than zerg inside of korea. This naturally leads to more korean terran losses vs foreign zergs than the other way around. It would be better if you compared win-rates.
I really wonder why terran isn't very popular for foreign players.
I also wonder why the janitor school business I invested in doesn't have many candidates.
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Why do Zergs think they should get compensation for an infestor nerf in the form of buffs to other units? The infestor is too strong. Zerg has an unfair advantage. The goal is a level playing field, and nerfing the infestor would be intended to achieve that goal. You wouldn't nerf the infestor to level the field and then buff, say, the mutalisk to prop the Zerg side back up.
It's like a soccer team acknowledging that they shouldn't be able to play with 12 men on the field when everyone else has only 11, but in compensation for complying with the 11 man rule, they demand that their forwards should be able to use their hands.
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EPT
