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Stop derailing this thread, get back on topic. |
On November 25 2012 11:17 jmbthirteen wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2012 06:57 Stratos_speAr wrote:On November 25 2012 02:40 Leth0 wrote:On November 25 2012 02:08 The Final Boss wrote:On November 24 2012 20:56 masterbreti wrote:
This is kinda sad. I met Inori back in June and he was doing really well, he was playing really solid, I'm rather depressed he decided to hang up his mouse, a teop level protoss player who was so very underrated by the community. Did you read the post, he didn't hang up his mouse, he just went to a more lucrative game. Last stats I heard there was a lot more prize money given out for SC2 this year than LoL. The vast majority of that prize money is incredibly top-heavy. in LoL you mean? Cause that is the case SC2: http://esportsearnings.com/games/1/starcraft_iiLoL: http://www.esportsearnings.com/games/14/league_of_legendsI'm not sure on the numbers for this year alone, but in the lifetime of both games, (sc2 came out 2010, LoL in 2009) SC2 has given out $2.5 million more. SC2 has 13 players that have made over $100,000, LoL has 5 aka the 5 guys who won the s2 championships. Next highest are at $59k which isn't even in the top 25 of sc2.
I can't believe people are still getting it so utterly wrong, citing http://www.esportsearnings.com without even interpreting all the information available on that site.
Firstly you say LoL came out in 2009 true, but the first tournament with a prize pool even worth mentioning was the season one championship in 2011. The 2 years before, prize money was next to non-existent with a competitive scene funded almost exclusively by players.
Secondly your way of comparing prize money between the games is awful as you are only taking in to acount total prize money and not prize money with respect to tournament. On the very site you list you can see that LoL has $3,722,346.76 for 60 tournaments while sc2 has $6,263,484.91 for 668 tournaments this figure is far more relevant than giving prize money accrued alone.
Finally I think it's clear to everyone which game's players earn more from streaming, glance at Twitch right now if you aren't sure.
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Is this thread seriously still going on?
LoL and other MOBA's will IMO in the long run be a bigger ESport attraction because of the nature of the genre, etc, and you know what? I don't have a problem with that whatsoever. I love playing and watching Starcraft 2. And as long as it's a healthy scene with it's own tournaments and streamers to watch, etc, I could care less if it's the biggest Esport around or if whether or not it's the hardest and most complicated game to learn etc etc etc.
Now whether or not Starcraft will remain a healthy and viable Esport in the years to come and how good Blizzard is or isn't at maintaining that is a different topic for another thread.
I just find all this comparing and attempted one-upmanship from fans on both sides about which game is bigger or not to be annoying. If you enjoy one or the other or both then enjoy it. Who cares if one game is bigger than the other.
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I really hope this isn't a trend: Sc2 pros 'retiring' and moving to League Of Easy. I mean even DotA, which I am just new to, looks down on LoE.
I hope those that aren't as competitive in SC2 don't haemorrhage out into LoE. That would be terrible for SC2. bad for DotA2 and it would make LoE...well, I don't play the game but I honestly wish it well, cause it is well managed.
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On November 25 2012 14:43 xtyxtbx wrote:
All because LoL is free it's now the biggest game, it's so sad that all of it's supporters don't realize that if SC2 was free, it would kill LoL in a second. Such a shame to see a game like LoL get so big and take so many great SC2 players. GL Inori. Don't get me wrong I like LoL as a fun game to play with friends, but other than that, it's pretty much a joke.
SC2 fails because it's not fun. Lol/Dota is. Video games are supposed to be fun... I doubt being f2p would help SC2 that much
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I dont think you guys realize why programers are switching to lol.Lol is a lot more friendly towards casual progamers(aka streamers than sc2 is).In fact lol streamers generate many more views than sc2 does and unless you win tournament the only way of making money out of videogames is to have many viewers on stream for.
For example in lol there are the streamers vman7,therainmain,hafu,angelofdeath,onlyjaximus,best riven na,phathom lord who are constatly making between 2000-7000 viewers without ever participating in any lol tournaments.They just stream all day long and make a living out of it just relying o the stream which is semi impossible in sc2.And probably there are tons more that I dont even know of.So thats already about 7 people making a living out of this game whiout participating in tournaments.Tink about how many sc2streamers are making a living without being somehow involved with a pro team or the tournament scene......I dont know anyone but if you could give me some names..
In terms of proplayer viewership here is no comparison.Ive seen lol players streaming constatly getting between 15000-30000.on their personal stream>not to mention the fact that compared to sc2 pros who consider themselves demigods and way below their dignity to stream lol top players stream constantly.Hotshotgg,Skocelote,Dyrus(along with the rest of the tsm),DSaint vicious are daily remember daily on streams playing for their fans.
in sc2 well they dont stream that often and when they do stream its only for a couple of hours.
Both sc2 and lol are good games but the design of lol and the mentality of a the pro community is much more different.
Now put yourself in Inori and Destinys shoes;they are individuals who sacrificed their future,renouncing things such as jobs and education to practice videogames as jobs(aka the things your parents have to make money).If they dont win any tournaments in sc2 which is hard as hell they have 0 money to support themselves for food,clothes.shelter etc.For example destiny was getting like 1200 viewers playing sc2.Now with lol ive seen him last night with 3000 viewers streaming form Poland(which means not quite on par with the us time) which made my heart joy because he is a good entertainer.A lot of you here are 15 year old kids who dont know the pressure of having to do anything to buy food and pay the rent,not knowing where you are going to come up with the money for next day.These dudes dont have a job and are in their early 20s.They need to support themselves somehow.Microing marines doesnt keep you from going hungry.
Also the pro community in lol is far way more tolerant towards streamers than sc2.Destiny and Orb were both shunned out of the community and constantly insulted by people such as Incontrol and Idra.IN lol you see gsl winning,mlg winning pro gamers playing along side with streamers and other random scrubs on ladder.Sometimes they get beaten,sometimes they rage but they never say:You know what get the fuuck out of this community.Tolerance goes a long way.
Btw in lol is a lot less sexist than sc2 2.Ive seen on twitch at least 5 girls streming lol.THey were bad at it(like 1300 elo0 not making any money out of it,just streaming for fun but no one in chat or in the forums tld then gtfo you whhore,we dont wanna see your tits over here.The girls were there just having fun not bothering anyone.While in sc2 wel I remeber when SlayersEve, a very nice looking girl who could bring lots of casuls started sc2 there were posts all over teamliquid,on blizzard forums forms and youtube shunning her,insulting her telling her to gtfo of the proscene when the girl was just trying to play a game and maybe bring in some viewers that wouldnt normally watch this sort of thing.Not to mention that there was that supermodel Tarabcock or something who wasn't even part of the proscene just randomly streaming insulted here on tl or.Or that pornstar mia rose who actually had viewers on twitch insulted by incontrol.The sc2 scene is far less tolerant.You have bad progamrers such as incontorll throwing away the casual audienece(although the guy hasnt won any tournament in ages). Surprinsingly these people are well tolerated within the lol and wow communitites.
The good thing about sc2 is that it is an actual esport and has high level quility tournament players such as Mvp,mma,hero,nestea etc which bring some fans.But as far as the streamer scene and the community it is still dominated by a small minory of overzealous snobish fanatics who scare off casual players and send emails to sponsors.In which video game do the fans of the game themselves send emails to sponsors to kick out a progamer???And btw destiny was the only streamer making a living solely out of streaming in the sc2 community and the community just threw him away.sc2 doesnt have less viewers because of blizzard.pro players arent leaving because of blizzard.They are leaving because of an overtly intolerant community which can not generate enough revenue to support their basic needs such as food/water/.Also the high levle of competition means that unless you get below 3rd place youre basicly dead until the next tournament.
If people in this community would just relax,alow noobs to rear their heads on stream without being insulted by bad greedy progamers such as incontrol or by the 1000 litte sc2 fanatics maybe more people would pick up sc2.Otherwise good luck with sending email to sponsors and watching incontrols bad play because if this thing keeps up there will be roughly only 30 progamers in the sc2 community which wil participate and win every tournament.Blizzard can make the game as casual frindly as it wants.When in the moment you try to stream a game and dozens of people tell you youre bad/a woman etc and some well known dude in the community insults oyu on youtube and on stream nboody will wqant ot be part of this community.
So in conclusion:
1.a far more tolerant community.
2.a far frindlyer and tolerant proscene
3.far more viewers on stream and acceptance form viewers.
are the reasons why not so good progamers tend to switch to games such as lol/
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Anyone want to play a good ol' fashioned game of wall ball? We can use the text above me; I'll bring the ball.
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On November 25 2012 21:02 Emuking wrote:
Anyone want to play a good ol' fashioned game of wall ball? We can use the text above me; I'll bring the ball.
And with this you proof that the guy is right, well done, good sir of brainafkness.
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Out of curiosity how are these sc2 pros doing once they switch over to LoL?
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On November 25 2012 19:38 zezamer wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2012 14:43 xtyxtbx wrote:
All because LoL is free it's now the biggest game, it's so sad that all of it's supporters don't realize that if SC2 was free, it would kill LoL in a second. Such a shame to see a game like LoL get so big and take so many great SC2 players. GL Inori. Don't get me wrong I like LoL as a fun game to play with friends, but other than that, it's pretty much a joke. SC2 fails because it's not fun. Lol/Dota is. V
Maybe it's not fun for you, but for me its the most fun in the world.
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On November 25 2012 21:09 moochu wrote:
Out of curiosity how are these sc2 pros doing once they switch over to LoL?
I heard Destiny is still struggling to break into the scene.
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On November 25 2012 21:09 moochu wrote:
Out of curiosity how are these sc2 pros doing once they switch over to LoL?
Dunno about the rest but Destiny had like 3000 viewers last night after a period of playing sc2 and getting max 1800.Also you have to take into consideration he is struggling at 1300 elo which is somewhat like silver in sc2.So for a silver level player to get 3000 viewers is preety good.And he is just at the beggining.If he reaches like 2000 elo combined with his entertainment skills he could have like 4000-5000 viewers..After that he can make fun of idra
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On November 25 2012 21:44 Fortidei wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2012 21:09 moochu wrote:
Out of curiosity how are these sc2 pros doing once they switch over to LoL? I heard Destiny is still struggling to break into the scene.
The scene in lol is not the same as in sc2.The streamer scene is a scene in its own there compared to sc2 where the proscene is vital.Destiny already played and is somehow friends with phantomlord a streamer that gets anywhere from 3000-7000 viewers.also he got coaching form xj9 a top ladder player last season.But with the ampunt of casualness and entertainment in the lol streamer scene there are infinite possibilitires.For those of you who remember Destinys long philosophic debates with his friend Kyle or with Minigun or his epic wars with Deezer and combatex..... well there are many outspoken lol players with which destiny can befriend and team up.imagine something as a lol team composed of Destiny+Kyle+deezer+Combatex+Minigun.Would be epic.And there are many lol streamers who could gladly fill the role.
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On November 25 2012 19:27 Ponera wrote:
I really hope this isn't a trend: Sc2 pros 'retiring' and moving to League Of Easy. I mean even DotA, which I am just new to, looks down on LoE.
I hope those that aren't as competitive in SC2 don't haemorrhage out into LoE. That would be terrible for SC2. bad for DotA2 and it would make LoE...well, I don't play the game but I honestly wish it well, cause it is well managed.
Well league gives them more opportunities atm.Hope Hots changes the shift a little bit.
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On November 25 2012 16:34 DonKey_ wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2012 11:17 jmbthirteen wrote:On November 25 2012 06:57 Stratos_speAr wrote:On November 25 2012 02:40 Leth0 wrote:On November 25 2012 02:08 The Final Boss wrote:On November 24 2012 20:56 masterbreti wrote:
This is kinda sad. I met Inori back in June and he was doing really well, he was playing really solid, I'm rather depressed he decided to hang up his mouse, a teop level protoss player who was so very underrated by the community. Did you read the post, he didn't hang up his mouse, he just went to a more lucrative game. Last stats I heard there was a lot more prize money given out for SC2 this year than LoL. The vast majority of that prize money is incredibly top-heavy. in LoL you mean? Cause that is the case SC2: http://esportsearnings.com/games/1/starcraft_iiLoL: http://www.esportsearnings.com/games/14/league_of_legendsI'm not sure on the numbers for this year alone, but in the lifetime of both games, (sc2 came out 2010, LoL in 2009) SC2 has given out $2.5 million more. SC2 has 13 players that have made over $100,000, LoL has 5 aka the 5 guys who won the s2 championships. Next highest are at $59k which isn't even in the top 25 of sc2. I can't believe people are still getting it so utterly wrong, citing http://www.esportsearnings.com without even interpreting all the information available on that site. Firstly you say LoL came out in 2009 true, but the first tournament with a prize pool even worth mentioning was the season one championship in 2011. The 2 years before, prize money was next to non-existent with a competitive scene funded almost exclusively by players. Secondly your way of comparing prize money between the games is awful as you are only taking in to acount total prize money and not prize money with respect to tournament. On the very site you list you can see that LoL has $3,722,346.76 for 60 tournaments while sc2 has $6,263,484.91 for 668 tournaments this figure is far more relevant than giving prize money accrued alone. Finally I think it's clear to everyone which game's players earn more from streaming, glance at Twitch right now if you aren't sure.
Having money spread out among greater tournaments rather than allocated among a few is better for the pros. Instead of having 5 guys win a million bucks from 1 tournament, it's more sustainable for the scene long term to have a bunch of tournaments with much flatter prize distributions.
Look at the WSOP, theres a reason why no pro relies on the main event for income.
SC2 could use even flatter tournament distributions, so it's not just Mvp and 5 other koreans (and Stephano) making serious money while the rest are making scraps.
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On November 25 2012 21:18 Snowbear wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2012 19:38 zezamer wrote:On November 25 2012 14:43 xtyxtbx wrote:
All because LoL is free it's now the biggest game, it's so sad that all of it's supporters don't realize that if SC2 was free, it would kill LoL in a second. Such a shame to see a game like LoL get so big and take so many great SC2 players. GL Inori. Don't get me wrong I like LoL as a fun game to play with friends, but other than that, it's pretty much a joke. SC2 fails because it's not fun. Lol/Dota is. V Maybe it's not fun for you, but for me its the most fun in the world.
Yea I'm sorry, bad wording. What I mean that average player finds mobas way more fun than sc2. They should redesign some spells/units so that they'd be more "fun"/ interesting.
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On November 25 2012 22:13 zefreak wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2012 16:34 DonKey_ wrote:On November 25 2012 11:17 jmbthirteen wrote:On November 25 2012 06:57 Stratos_speAr wrote:On November 25 2012 02:40 Leth0 wrote:On November 25 2012 02:08 The Final Boss wrote:On November 24 2012 20:56 masterbreti wrote:
This is kinda sad. I met Inori back in June and he was doing really well, he was playing really solid, I'm rather depressed he decided to hang up his mouse, a teop level protoss player who was so very underrated by the community. Did you read the post, he didn't hang up his mouse, he just went to a more lucrative game. Last stats I heard there was a lot more prize money given out for SC2 this year than LoL. The vast majority of that prize money is incredibly top-heavy. in LoL you mean? Cause that is the case SC2: http://esportsearnings.com/games/1/starcraft_iiLoL: http://www.esportsearnings.com/games/14/league_of_legendsI'm not sure on the numbers for this year alone, but in the lifetime of both games, (sc2 came out 2010, LoL in 2009) SC2 has given out $2.5 million more. SC2 has 13 players that have made over $100,000, LoL has 5 aka the 5 guys who won the s2 championships. Next highest are at $59k which isn't even in the top 25 of sc2. I can't believe people are still getting it so utterly wrong, citing http://www.esportsearnings.com without even interpreting all the information available on that site. Firstly you say LoL came out in 2009 true, but the first tournament with a prize pool even worth mentioning was the season one championship in 2011. The 2 years before, prize money was next to non-existent with a competitive scene funded almost exclusively by players. Secondly your way of comparing prize money between the games is awful as you are only taking in to acount total prize money and not prize money with respect to tournament. On the very site you list you can see that LoL has $3,722,346.76 for 60 tournaments while sc2 has $6,263,484.91 for 668 tournaments this figure is far more relevant than giving prize money accrued alone. Finally I think it's clear to everyone which game's players earn more from streaming, glance at Twitch right now if you aren't sure. Having money spread out among greater tournaments rather than allocated among a few is better for the pros. Instead of having 5 guys win a million bucks from 1 tournament, it's more sustainable for the scene long term to have a bunch of tournaments with much flatter prize distributions. Look at the WSOP, theres a reason why no pro relies on the main event for income. SC2 could use even flatter tournament distributions, so it's not just Mvp and 5 other koreans (and Stephano) making serious money while the rest are making scraps.
I don't understand why you are making a statement as though LoL tournaments are purposely limiting the number to a few tournaments with higher prize pools. That's not the case at all, prize money scale comparatively with both games, there is two real reasons why LoL has a lower number of tournaments listed on that site. The obvious one first, the LoL competitive scene is about a year younger than the sc2 one. The second reason is http://www.esportsearnings.com has done a very poor job covering all the leagues like ESL and goforLoL that happen like every single day.
As a side note to all of this; this is how easy it is to get riot to sponsor a tournament at a local level for you, with their in game money.
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On November 23 2012 18:43 Fusilero wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2012 18:36 Integra wrote:On November 23 2012 18:28 GTR wrote:
it's just as hard to break into the lol pro scene as it is for sc2, there are so many established teams right now in lol in korea that it would be really difficult to break into the scene in such short notice.
min/coca/puzzle/sc haven't made a splash at all yet. remember the bw players brave and grape who quit khan to play league? non-existent. I'm finding this strange as well, along with destiny. Even if you buy into all the "sc2 is dead and everyone are moving on to lol and they are making a million dollars per day in that game" then where are the people that moved to lol? I havn't heard a dammn thing about anyone who moved from SC2/SC:BW to LOL yet. Have not seem them once, ever, in any competition. The only SC player with success is tazza from way back he jungles for sword now
watch? My favorite lol pleayer (:
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On November 25 2012 21:56 Mrpopescu wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2012 21:09 moochu wrote:
Out of curiosity how are these sc2 pros doing once they switch over to LoL? Dunno about the rest but Destiny had like 3000 viewers last night after a period of playing sc2 and getting max 1800.Also you have to take into consideration he is struggling at 1300 elo which is somewhat like silver in sc2.So for a silver level player to get 3000 viewers is preety good.And he is just at the beggining.If he reaches like 2000 elo combined with his entertainment skills he could have like 4000-5000 viewers..After that he can make fun of idra
1300 Elo is better than Silver league in StarCraft 2. It's probably more like high gold-low platinum, because people have a vague understanding of the game with decent mechanics, but there is not a whole lot of strategy and mechanically there are a whole ton of mistakes. Bronze-Silver league in StarCraft 2 is more like people who are not even at Level 30 yet or have been playing for a while and are in the deep depths of Elo hell. Also, the distribution in LoL across the leagues is a lot different than in StarCraft 2.
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On November 25 2012 19:38 zezamer wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2012 14:43 xtyxtbx wrote:
All because LoL is free it's now the biggest game, it's so sad that all of it's supporters don't realize that if SC2 was free, it would kill LoL in a second. Such a shame to see a game like LoL get so big and take so many great SC2 players. GL Inori. Don't get me wrong I like LoL as a fun game to play with friends, but other than that, it's pretty much a joke. SC2 fails because it's not fun. Lol/Dota is. Video games are supposed to be fun... I doubt being f2p would help SC2 that much
That is your opinion, not a statement of fact. Many other people think the exact opposite about SC2/MOBAs.
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I was surprised that he wouldn't take a really fresh start with Dota 2. I understand League has something of a bandwagon going on, but Dota 2 seems like a game with more potential for a pro to come onto the scene and make a name for himself. League seems just as saturated, if not more-so than SC2.
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EPT
