How about something along the lines of (use these numbers as examples, don't get too caught up in them):
Reduce FF duration from 15 seconds to 10 seconds. Increase the sentry shield and hp by 5 or 10 each, increase their dmg output by 1. Perhaps even reduce their attack speed from 1.0 to 0.9.
FF duration gets cut by 33%, and they become slightly strong in combat. Again, don't talk shit about these numbers, talk shit (if you must) about this concept.
edit:
Or even this:
Remove slowtime (whatever it's called) from the Oracle, give it something else, but give slowtime to the sentry, as a straight replacement for the forcefield. But then buff it's combat stats a little bit to compensate.
On November 18 2012 22:06 Psychobabas wrote: Great article.
I kind of feel like its the same for TvP lol
it can feel like it against collosus all in's, but those are holdable, just gota pull more scvs than you think you need to and hav ton of bunkers. Real problem with TvP is late game*. 20 warpgates vs. 20 barracks don't even compare. 15 zealot warp-in's into main production. 15 templar spread around the map to prohibit terran from capitalizing on a good engagement. Archon production vs. ghost/emp production, etc.
Forcefields should definatly stay, i have to agree with morrow here lol. They not that much different from fungal growth, only fungal also deals damage and makes a perfect donut around every unit (completely prevents it from moving) without anny additional micro.It lasts a bit shorter though.
Lack of micro opportunitys for zerg: This is difficult, all races have the kiting, focus fire and pull back hurt units micro that you can do with anny unit,and all races also have drop micro. Then there a few specific micro mechanics for each race: stim, forcefield,fungal,emp,storm Forcefield prevents the standard micro with units,fungal does basicly the same though comes at a much later stage and in smaller numbers, i kinda do like the idea behind it. A solution for forcefield is maybe give zerg a decent massable range unit wich has the same range as stalkers. Your units can still be trapped but they cant be killed of without a fight from 6 range annymore. Collusus still does damage but for that you need corruptors annyway. Forcefield then becomes a way to buy time and stall battles, instead of a mechanic to trap units and then kill them without retaliation. 6 range roaches would probably be heavy unbalanced in other areas but i do think a major problem with the forcefield for zerg comes from a lack of range against stalkers,and maybe a solution can come from giving zerg better range. Other idea wich already was mentioned is to give forcefields hitpoints,if blizzard will do annything with forcefields i think it will be this, seeing they experimented with hp and entomb (wich is quiet similar to forcefields)
Why not give Forcefields Health Points like Entomb? This seems like a good solution to me, protoss players have to reput up the forcefields that are about to die and zerg can focus down certain forcefields.
Sorry, I didn't read the 19 pages of comments, if this has already been suggested.
"Its amazing that we have different champions in a game where fungal growths exist" - author unknown :D
Getting back on topic, I agree somewhat with the concept of removing FFs entirely, but at the same time I wouldn't mind seeing them adding to the Oracle in exchange for Time Warp.
Promotes mirco earlier in the game but still adds a harassment spell for the Oracle in the form of FFs. Instead of slowing down mining literally, you stop it outright like Entomb but in a different method that still allows for the spell to be used in other ways. This could also greatly increase the viability of storm drops as you could trap workers then storm them and they would be unable to run away.
Another thread by a prominent figure on the scene addressing the same perceived fundamental problems with the game. I said it in the #SaveHots thread and I say it here again:
The very same issues are brought up time and time again. The fix is in your hands. What do tournament makers do when the map pool has gone stale? In the beginning there were mostly bad Blizzard maps with close positions enabled. A big thing was the moment when GSL introduced Tal Darim Altar.
The editor doesn't limit you to pure map design. You can actually change parameters of other stuff to. Since there is a large majority in the community that wants to change stuff that Blizzard is never gonna change you should make new maps where you make design modifications to fungal, forcefields, neural parasite, siege tanks and what have you. The motivation is to create a game where consistent skill acquired through careful practice is allowed to prevail.
If leading figures in the community is behind such a mod and tournaments start to pick it up then Blizzard has to implement changes into their official SC2 balance system. Gretorp started the other thread i mentioned.
What about some major casters go together with pros like MorroW to design a better game. You have to deal with all the problems that might arise. There has to be a neutral balance group capable of making the right calls. You have to arrange showmatches proving that the changes leads to a better game.
CS and Dota are mods. Why can't you actually create something better yourself instead of writing kilometers of texts in forums about changes Blizzard should make but never will.
I can't do it, I'm a nobody and no one would play my mod and I wouldn't be an authority when it comes to judging balance. Neither do I organize any tournaments.
On November 19 2012 13:38 one-one-one wrote: Another thread by a prominent figure on the scene addressing the same perceived fundamental problems with the game. I said it in the #SaveHots thread and I say it here again:
The very same issues are brought up time and time again. The fix is in your hands. What do tournament makers do when the map pool has gone stale? In the beginning there were mostly bad Blizzard maps with close positions enabled. A big thing was the moment when GSL introduced Tal Darim Altar.
The editor doesn't limit you to pure map design. You can actually change parameters of other stuff to. Since there is a large majority in the community that wants to change stuff that Blizzard is never gonna change you should make new maps where you make design modifications to fungal, forcefields, neural parasite, siege tanks and what have you. The motivation is to create a game where consistent skill acquired through careful practice is allowed to prevail.
If leading figures in the community is behind such a mod and tournaments start to pick it up then Blizzard has to implement changes into their official SC2 balance system. Gretorp started the other thread i mentioned.
What about some major casters go together with pros like MorroW to design a better game. You have to deal with all the problems that might arise. There has to be a neutral balance group capable of making the right calls. You have to arrange showmatches proving that the changes leads to a better game.
CS and Dota are mods. Why can't you actually create something better yourself instead of writing kilometers of texts in forums about changes Blizzard should make but never will.
I can't do it, I'm a nobody and no one would play my mod and I wouldn't be an authority when it comes to judging balance. Neither do I organize any tournaments.
Problem with this though is Blizzard would shut you down if you made their game better
On November 19 2012 13:38 one-one-one wrote: Another thread by a prominent figure on the scene addressing the same perceived fundamental problems with the game. I said it in the #SaveHots thread and I say it here again:
The very same issues are brought up time and time again. The fix is in your hands. What do tournament makers do when the map pool has gone stale? In the beginning there were mostly bad Blizzard maps with close positions enabled. A big thing was the moment when GSL introduced Tal Darim Altar.
The editor doesn't limit you to pure map design. You can actually change parameters of other stuff to. Since there is a large majority in the community that wants to change stuff that Blizzard is never gonna change you should make new maps where you make design modifications to fungal, forcefields, neural parasite, siege tanks and what have you. The motivation is to create a game where consistent skill acquired through careful practice is allowed to prevail.
If leading figures in the community is behind such a mod and tournaments start to pick it up then Blizzard has to implement changes into their official SC2 balance system. Gretorp started the other thread i mentioned.
What about some major casters go together with pros like MorroW to design a better game. You have to deal with all the problems that might arise. There has to be a neutral balance group capable of making the right calls. You have to arrange showmatches proving that the changes leads to a better game.
CS and Dota are mods. Why can't you actually create something better yourself instead of writing kilometers of texts in forums about changes Blizzard should make but never will.
I can't do it, I'm a nobody and no one would play my mod and I wouldn't be an authority when it comes to judging balance. Neither do I organize any tournaments.
Problem with this though is Blizzard would shut you down if you made their game better
Why?
They didn't shut down Tal Darim Altar or tournaments playing with maps with no close spawns and with neutral depots at the bottom of ramps. I don't know about the US, but should they try to stop an European organizer doing such a thing they would get into trouble with the legal authorities as behavior like that is generally frowned upon over here.
On November 19 2012 13:38 one-one-one wrote: Another thread by a prominent figure on the scene addressing the same perceived fundamental problems with the game. I said it in the #SaveHots thread and I say it here again:
The very same issues are brought up time and time again. The fix is in your hands. What do tournament makers do when the map pool has gone stale? In the beginning there were mostly bad Blizzard maps with close positions enabled. A big thing was the moment when GSL introduced Tal Darim Altar.
The editor doesn't limit you to pure map design. You can actually change parameters of other stuff to. Since there is a large majority in the community that wants to change stuff that Blizzard is never gonna change you should make new maps where you make design modifications to fungal, forcefields, neural parasite, siege tanks and what have you. The motivation is to create a game where consistent skill acquired through careful practice is allowed to prevail.
If leading figures in the community is behind such a mod and tournaments start to pick it up then Blizzard has to implement changes into their official SC2 balance system. Gretorp started the other thread i mentioned.
What about some major casters go together with pros like MorroW to design a better game. You have to deal with all the problems that might arise. There has to be a neutral balance group capable of making the right calls. You have to arrange showmatches proving that the changes leads to a better game.
CS and Dota are mods. Why can't you actually create something better yourself instead of writing kilometers of texts in forums about changes Blizzard should make but never will.
I can't do it, I'm a nobody and no one would play my mod and I wouldn't be an authority when it comes to judging balance. Neither do I organize any tournaments.
Problem with this though is Blizzard would shut you down if you made their game better
Why?
They didn't shut down Tal Darim Altar or tournaments playing with maps with no close spawns and with neutral depots at the bottom of ramps. I don't know about the US, but should they try to stop an European organizer doing such a thing they would get into trouble with the legal authorities as behavior like that is generally frowned upon over here.
This is Blizzard we are talking about. They have the rights to everything. They would shut you down and not give any tournament organization the licensing to run said tournament.
I agree with everything your saying, i'm not trying to sound rude but it is what it is. Name one balance change that was a direct result from community feedback? Blizzard always has to do something to make it their own, they say they are not afraid to admit when they are wrong, but have you ever seen it?
On November 19 2012 13:38 one-one-one wrote: Another thread by a prominent figure on the scene addressing the same perceived fundamental problems with the game. I said it in the #SaveHots thread and I say it here again:
The very same issues are brought up time and time again. The fix is in your hands. What do tournament makers do when the map pool has gone stale? In the beginning there were mostly bad Blizzard maps with close positions enabled. A big thing was the moment when GSL introduced Tal Darim Altar.
The editor doesn't limit you to pure map design. You can actually change parameters of other stuff to. Since there is a large majority in the community that wants to change stuff that Blizzard is never gonna change you should make new maps where you make design modifications to fungal, forcefields, neural parasite, siege tanks and what have you. The motivation is to create a game where consistent skill acquired through careful practice is allowed to prevail.
If leading figures in the community is behind such a mod and tournaments start to pick it up then Blizzard has to implement changes into their official SC2 balance system. Gretorp started the other thread i mentioned.
What about some major casters go together with pros like MorroW to design a better game. You have to deal with all the problems that might arise. There has to be a neutral balance group capable of making the right calls. You have to arrange showmatches proving that the changes leads to a better game.
CS and Dota are mods. Why can't you actually create something better yourself instead of writing kilometers of texts in forums about changes Blizzard should make but never will.
I can't do it, I'm a nobody and no one would play my mod and I wouldn't be an authority when it comes to judging balance. Neither do I organize any tournaments.
Problem with this though is Blizzard would shut you down if you made their game better
Why?
They didn't shut down Tal Darim Altar or tournaments playing with maps with no close spawns and with neutral depots at the bottom of ramps. I don't know about the US, but should they try to stop an European organizer doing such a thing they would get into trouble with the legal authorities as behavior like that is generally frowned upon over here.
This is Blizzard we are talking about. They have the rights to everything. They would shut you down and not give any tournament organization the licensing to run said tournament.
I agree with everything your saying, i'm not trying to sound rude but it is what it is. Name one balance change that was a direct result from community feedback? Blizzard always has to do something to make it their own, they say they are not afraid to admit when they are wrong, but have you ever seen it?
Only once and that was realID. But the response was so overwhelming that it legitimately scared blizzard into thinking they might lose customers over it, so they caved. Really though, if you don't threaten their bank accounts they won't care. You're essentially correct.
On November 19 2012 13:38 one-one-one wrote: Another thread by a prominent figure on the scene addressing the same perceived fundamental problems with the game. I said it in the #SaveHots thread and I say it here again:
The very same issues are brought up time and time again. The fix is in your hands. What do tournament makers do when the map pool has gone stale? In the beginning there were mostly bad Blizzard maps with close positions enabled. A big thing was the moment when GSL introduced Tal Darim Altar.
The editor doesn't limit you to pure map design. You can actually change parameters of other stuff to. Since there is a large majority in the community that wants to change stuff that Blizzard is never gonna change you should make new maps where you make design modifications to fungal, forcefields, neural parasite, siege tanks and what have you. The motivation is to create a game where consistent skill acquired through careful practice is allowed to prevail.
If leading figures in the community is behind such a mod and tournaments start to pick it up then Blizzard has to implement changes into their official SC2 balance system. Gretorp started the other thread i mentioned.
What about some major casters go together with pros like MorroW to design a better game. You have to deal with all the problems that might arise. There has to be a neutral balance group capable of making the right calls. You have to arrange showmatches proving that the changes leads to a better game.
CS and Dota are mods. Why can't you actually create something better yourself instead of writing kilometers of texts in forums about changes Blizzard should make but never will.
I can't do it, I'm a nobody and no one would play my mod and I wouldn't be an authority when it comes to judging balance. Neither do I organize any tournaments.
Problem with this though is Blizzard would shut you down if you made their game better
Why?
They didn't shut down Tal Darim Altar or tournaments playing with maps with no close spawns and with neutral depots at the bottom of ramps. I don't know about the US, but should they try to stop an European organizer doing such a thing they would get into trouble with the legal authorities as behavior like that is generally frowned upon over here.
This is Blizzard we are talking about. They have the rights to everything. They would shut you down and not give any tournament organization the licensing to run said tournament.
I agree with everything your saying, i'm not trying to sound rude but it is what it is. Name one balance change that was a direct result from community feedback? Blizzard always has to do something to make it their own, they say they are not afraid to admit when they are wrong, but have you ever seen it?
No, and that is the _actual_ fundamental problem. The community lacks faith in the design and balance teams and a lot of people start to feel that Hots will be a failure because of it.
But first things first. Prove that the concept of a mod works and then worry about the issues you brought up. If I would announce a showmatch in footman wars I could. Only tournaments making money off sc2 has that problem.
If a mod would actually provide better games then it would ultimately be bad business to shut it down, right?
Either make something better yourself or attack the problem at its roots and demand that Blizzard replaces key figures in the design and balance departments.
On November 19 2012 13:38 one-one-one wrote: Another thread by a prominent figure on the scene addressing the same perceived fundamental problems with the game. I said it in the #SaveHots thread and I say it here again:
The very same issues are brought up time and time again. The fix is in your hands. What do tournament makers do when the map pool has gone stale? In the beginning there were mostly bad Blizzard maps with close positions enabled. A big thing was the moment when GSL introduced Tal Darim Altar.
The editor doesn't limit you to pure map design. You can actually change parameters of other stuff to. Since there is a large majority in the community that wants to change stuff that Blizzard is never gonna change you should make new maps where you make design modifications to fungal, forcefields, neural parasite, siege tanks and what have you. The motivation is to create a game where consistent skill acquired through careful practice is allowed to prevail.
If leading figures in the community is behind such a mod and tournaments start to pick it up then Blizzard has to implement changes into their official SC2 balance system. Gretorp started the other thread i mentioned.
What about some major casters go together with pros like MorroW to design a better game. You have to deal with all the problems that might arise. There has to be a neutral balance group capable of making the right calls. You have to arrange showmatches proving that the changes leads to a better game.
CS and Dota are mods. Why can't you actually create something better yourself instead of writing kilometers of texts in forums about changes Blizzard should make but never will.
I can't do it, I'm a nobody and no one would play my mod and I wouldn't be an authority when it comes to judging balance. Neither do I organize any tournaments.
Problem with this though is Blizzard would shut you down if you made their game better
Why?
They didn't shut down Tal Darim Altar or tournaments playing with maps with no close spawns and with neutral depots at the bottom of ramps. I don't know about the US, but should they try to stop an European organizer doing such a thing they would get into trouble with the legal authorities as behavior like that is generally frowned upon over here.
This is Blizzard we are talking about. They have the rights to everything. They would shut you down and not give any tournament organization the licensing to run said tournament.
I agree with everything your saying, i'm not trying to sound rude but it is what it is. Name one balance change that was a direct result from community feedback? Blizzard always has to do something to make it their own, they say they are not afraid to admit when they are wrong, but have you ever seen it?
Why would blizzard be so hostile towards a mod made in their own game? Tournaments are allowed to pick their own map pools, so deciding to play on a modded map isn't too big of a stretch. The only real problem is that the ladder system would be very messy and something like iccup would be against the ToS. So in order for a mod to work without getting Blizzard mad people would need to survive with no instant matchmaking for the time being.
Whats with the outcry suddenly when some not so top Zergs lost to some of the best Protosses from Korea? If those zergs were Life, Leenock, then something is wrong.
On November 19 2012 14:14 covetousrat wrote: Whats with the outcry suddenly when some not so top Zergs lost to some of the best Protosses from Korea? If those zergs were Life, Leenock, then something is wrong.
Morrow isn't even complaining about it being OP or not. He is complaining that it results in only the protoss who has to make the micro mistakes. He is saying in pvz (and this is true) zerg doesn't control micro at all because they can't.
Once there are FF's it's all up to tosses. If they fuck up they lose their army, if they don't zerg loses their army. It's not very fun because as a zerg you can't control your army and micro it becuase you have to hope toss misses his force fields (for example, doing a 3 pronged attack 1 to the natural, 1 to the third, and 1 more to the natural through a different choke). The zerg is pretty much praying toss doesn't notice and doesn't force field which isn't very fun at all.
I do hope people read the OP and not take it as balance whine, it just is boring and I imagine frusterating not only to tosses who accidently mis click, but to zergs who have to rely on the toss fucking up whenever zerg wants to engage the protoss army.
The best solution, one that would be harder but better for the game overall would be to remove forcefield and buff toss units so they don't have to rely on it. Of course again this would be really hard to balance correctly thanks to warpgates, so I don't' think this will ever happen.
Concept: 1. Bring Back Shield Battery, in any form, building or spell from nexus,(http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/Shield_battery), this will give defenders advantage to protoss.
2. Buff Zealot Speed. maybe be inmune to concusive too.
EPT
