EPTA fundamental issue about forcefield - Page 10
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Larkin
United Kingdom7161 Posts
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
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bokeevboke
Singapore1674 Posts
On November 19 2012 02:36 BrokenMirage wrote: The problem with the forcefields is an obvious one, that has been complained about in basically every matchup involving protoss. However, Blizzard cannot change the forcefield without creating glaring imbalances in PvZ, PvT, and PvP. Simply put, without the forcefield Protosses would get dismantled early game vs Zerg and Terran. Many pushes would arise which would be simply impossible to hold. In the case of PvP, it would simply make the matchup even more erratic, and four-gate all-in prone. Changing forcefields would completely jeopardize the game for some time. Whats wrong with tweaking other races? Balancing a game around one ability is terrible thing to do. | ||
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Riquiz
Netherlands402 Posts
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mishimaBeef
Canada2259 Posts
although setting up a flank can be considered micro? but look at the design of overlord drops and now the nydus worms... multitasking is key | ||
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sitromit
7051 Posts
On November 19 2012 02:32 WhatsInAName wrote: Watch how Stephano deals with Protoss. Baiting, sniping, surrounding. It's not always perfect, but after watching him, you come to realize that it is not a balance problem, all the other zergs are just simply bad. Yeah, that's why Stephano couldn't even get out of his group at WCS. Are you talking about the Stephano who lost to Mana's Sentry Immortal all ins at ESWC? The same guy who got stomped, absolutely stomped by Seed in a 3 base Immortal push recently at IPTL. Is that who you're talking about? Oh but he won a weak tournament like Lonestar, beat a couple of Code B and one Code A player barely 3-2, so he's the best Zerg in the world for sure and we should all look up to him for guidance. | ||
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Aurex
Canada115 Posts
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
On November 19 2012 02:43 bokeevboke wrote: Whats wrong with tweaking other races? Balancing a game around one ability is terrible thing to do. Yes, it certainly is. It has a trickle down effect. | ||
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SamsLiST
Germany184 Posts
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Wingblade
United States1806 Posts
On November 19 2012 01:34 divito wrote: I posed an alternative when he responded to my post: No. You can't give FF health. Destroy able forcefields ruin PvP and make 4 gate super over powered again. Roach max still works better too because roaches can focus fire with great efficiency. And stimmed bio would rip through them. You cannot nerf FF without redesigning Toss. Period, end of story. | ||
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mishimaBeef
Canada2259 Posts
this will probably cause toss to plant 1-2 extra forcefield per every 4-8 during an engagement in mid/late game vs roaches not a HUGE deal imo also, the forcefields should not be auto-acquired targets from an attack move | ||
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dacimvrl
Vatican City State582 Posts
comparing stephano vs top code S protoss? check.. whatever happened to baneling/roach bombs? check.. that's what I thought my friend brought up a good point: believe it or not, zerg is actually designed around micro, but macro. yea.. Top tier players don't necessarily stand out due to micro, but macro, because guess what? Zerg is a MACRO heavy race. what? we playing the same game brah? direct quote from him lol "no offense, theres a reason jd's been in sc2 pro games for like 1.5 months and is already better than you, morrow" tldr: it's the macro + you are doing it wrong | ||
Destructicon
4713 Posts
And if you believe FF actually added anything to the game, let me give you another point of view to look at. You say forcefield added complexity to the game, you argue that removing it just simplifies the game. Well I say FF adds unneeded complexity and no depth. FF as Morrow has pointed out just puts all the emphasis on the Protoss, either he FFs and micros perfectly, or he fucks up and he looses. The spell is too polarizing and it removes micro from one party, thus it doesn't add any depth, furthermore since there is no way to actually micro against it, you can only try to outproduce and out-last FFs, it further compounds the issue. If you remove FFs and buff toss to compensate, you actually add depth back to the game, because now the game becomes an issue of who can micro/control better, now "how much the protoss fucked up". Now to buff Protoss you probably would have to do it with the GW units, you can't make these too strong because of Warp mechanic, well no more a perfect time to also fix Warp in mechanics, make it so that standard GWs produce faster and WG warps in longer proportional to how far the warp point is. Now Toss units can actually be buffed, toss gets defenders advantage, and they could fight toe to toe with zergs. While on the issue why not also remove FG, and rebalance zerg in a similar way. perhaps buff some unused units like the Hydra. | ||
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RiSkysc2
696 Posts
On November 19 2012 02:50 sitromit wrote: Yeah, that's why Stephano couldn't even get out of his group at WCS. Are you talking about the Stephano who lost to Mana's Sentry Immortal all ins at ESWC? The same guy who got stomped, absolutely stomped by Seed in a 3 base Immortal push recently at IPTL. Is that who you're talking about? Oh but he won a weak tournament like Lonestar, beat a couple of Code B and one Code A player barely 3-2, so he's the best Zerg in the world for sure and we should all look up to him for guidance. Wow, you seem very angry.. | ||
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mishimaBeef
Canada2259 Posts
i don't expect forcefield to be changed though... mostly raven, void ray, etc. don't really care either way... i enjoy watching pro forcefielders | ||
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Deckkie
Netherlands1595 Posts
On November 19 2012 03:24 dacimvrl wrote: Zerg complaining about toss being op.. check.. comparing stephano vs top code S protoss? check.. whatever happened to baneling/roach bombs? check.. that's what I thought my friend brought up a good point: believe it or not, zerg is actually designed around micro, but macro. yea.. Top tier players don't necessarily stand out due to micro, but macro, because guess what? Zerg is a MACRO heavy race. what? we playing the same game brah? direct quote from him lol "no offense, theres a reason jd's been in sc2 pro games for like 1.5 months and is already better than you, morrow" tldr: it's the macro + you are doing it wrong Didnt read MorroW his article ... check... | ||
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dacimvrl
Vatican City State582 Posts
On November 19 2012 03:29 Deckkie wrote: Didnt read MorroW his article ... check... like the ridiculous points about how he's literally complaining because zerg doesn't have to pay as much attention to a fight as a protoss? and then saying better zerg players cant stand out from lesser zerg players in micro? yeh, the answer is: "learn to macro and be creative" check.. | ||
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algorithm0r
Canada486 Posts
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Junichi
Germany1056 Posts
Protoss in my opinion has at least two large design flaws (FF + WG) and I'm sure Blizz will do nothing about it and try to solve it by adding new units because adressing these would probably mean a complete redesign of Protoss. All we can do is hope that it actually works and all matchups become entertaining and the game actually provides a good means of determining who is the better player. | ||
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cltitran
United States16 Posts
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