EPTOn November 13 2012 05:20 LOLItsRyann wrote:
Why is DB's name rock? Is that a reference to Destructible rocks?
Why is DB's name rock? Is that a reference to Destructible rocks?
Of course. He loves them so and has a great sense of humor.
"Rock" comments about the Infestor (Blue post) - Page 28
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
Of course. He loves them so and has a great sense of humor. | ||
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mrRoflpwn
United States2618 Posts
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Assirra
Belgium4169 Posts
On November 13 2012 04:12 sieksdekciw wrote: I have to be honest, but I don't think nerfs or buffs affected much the game as it is now. I think the reason why we did not see infestors as imbalanced before was a combination of small maps, and slow and stagnant zerg metagame development. It took zerg 6 months to learn to use banelings and not only roaches, and an additional 6 months to learn how to stop timing pushes. Not exactly an innovative bunch. And I remember Idra was complaining to Blizzard at a time where roaches were 1 limit and zerg's metagame against terran was to mass ultralisks with no other units for support. And Blizzard listened, and started nerfing terran and buffing zerg. We can clearly see that when the gap in skill between zerg and terran players was that big 1 year ago, the scene was dominated by good, skilled players. Blizzard did not wait for the zergs to catch up though, they just nerfed terran here and there and buffed zerg here and there. And now we are at a point where the skill gap is narrowing, where zergs actually try to micro their units, and we just now notice how much easier and imbalanced their race is and has been in the first place. What we, the terran players ask, is for Blizzard to not employ a double standard and nerf the zerg to the ground as they continiously did with terran for 1.5 years based on the fact that a group of godlike players with godlike micro (MVP, MKP, MMA) were destroying zergs left and right. Blizzard did not wait for the zergs to try and find and answer. They buffed zerg, nerfed terran. Simple as that. Based on a single game of MVP, Blizzard nerfed ghosts's snipe. Based on another single game of MVP against Nestea, Blizzard retracted the decision of buffing raven speed. If they were consistent with the way they deal with things, they should have nerfed infestor brood lord and corruptor 6 to 9 months ago, since EVERY zerg player IN EVERY game IN EVERY matchup uses exactly the same combination, and uses it with ease. Thus, Blizzard must nerf infestor, and nerf it heavily. Oh god, you are one of those "terrans players are just better" people. Ever thought for a second that maybe, just maybe terran was fucking broken on release and that a lot of nerfs were required? We had 20 freaking terrans in code S. Are you honestly saying that had nothing to do with the current balance and just became "terran players just better". | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On November 13 2012 05:26 Assirra wrote: Oh god, you are one of those "terrans players are just better" people. Ever thought for a second that maybe, just maybe terran was fucking broken on release and that a lot of nerfs were required? We had 20 freaking terrans in code S. Are you honestly saying that had nothing to do with the current balance and just became "terran players just better". What are you talking about, those are the best arguments ever? I loved the threads claiming that Terran GSL players were some godlike super race that only Terran could fulfill their micro needs. Every day it was some new version of: "They are the best players in the world, which is why they play Terran, because it has allows them to take advantage of their godlike skills. Just because they are gods does not mean you should nerf the race that I happen to also play." P.S. The infestor is still kinda messed up, but that does not mean we need to go back to quick stim, or blue flame hellions drops the kill 35 works in 2 shots. Lets move forward, not backwards. | ||
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sieksdekciw
240 Posts
On November 13 2012 05:26 Assirra wrote: We had 20 freaking terrans in code S. Are you honestly saying that had nothing to do with the current balance and just became "terran players just better". Yes. And they are still better, and the only reason they are not again in code S, is cause zergs got a bit better and were heavily helped by the imbalance that zerg is. Don't get me wrong, the skill gap is still big, but not as big as before. User was banned for this post. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26793 Posts
On November 13 2012 05:50 sieksdekciw wrote: Yes. And they are still better, and the only reason they are not again in code S, is cause zergs got a bit better and were heavily helped by the imbalance that zerg is. Don't get me wrong, the skill gap is still big, but not as big as before. Not necessarily, as I've said for many moons Terran is very hard to play at that level, but there's also more you can do with the race in certain aspects. It's a rather simple concept that people continually ignore. It doesn't matter if you have MKP controlling your units if you're Protoss or Zerg, there's still less possibilities for the stellar micro that makes Korean Terrans so formidable. | ||
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StatixEx
United Kingdom779 Posts
Look at ghosts . . i RARELY see them in ZvT anymore . . before the nerf on their damage i used to hate them and fear them, tbh, ive started to see a resurgence of the unit over the last few months but nothing like it was before the nerf. Just mark these words. zergs are having their day right now but when the nerfs come in and you realise that it opens a door to some other tactic we are right back here again. Since the game has come out, zerg was always the underpowered race and winners were always congrated for their macro level of play . . now us players have worked out the kinks and made it this way. Other races need to start messing around cos all im seeing is the same mass death ball which we were complaining about before the queen buff and this new gglord/infestor comp. because everyone is crying about the game right now ill have to side with maybe us zergs got a little bit too good, we put the time in and worked it all out so ill agree, nerf us . . but well work it out again | ||
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KamikazeDurrrp
United States95 Posts
On November 13 2012 04:12 sieksdekciw wrote: I have to be honest, but I don't think nerfs or buffs affected much the game as it is now. I think the reason why we did not see infestors as imbalanced before was a combination of small maps, and slow and stagnant zerg metagame development. It took zerg 6 months to learn to use banelings and not only roaches, and an additional 6 months to learn how to stop timing pushes. Not exactly an innovative bunch. And I remember Idra was complaining to Blizzard at a time where roaches were 1 limit and zerg's metagame against terran was to mass ultralisks with no other units for support. And Blizzard listened, and started nerfing terran and buffing zerg. We can clearly see that when the gap in skill between zerg and terran players was that big 1 year ago, the scene was dominated by good, skilled players. Blizzard did not wait for the zergs to catch up though, they just nerfed terran here and there and buffed zerg here and there. And now we are at a point where the skill gap is narrowing, where zergs actually try to micro their units, and we just now notice how much easier and imbalanced their race is and has been in the first place. What we, the terran players ask, is for Blizzard to not employ a double standard and nerf the zerg to the ground as they continiously did with terran for 1.5 years based on the fact that a group of godlike players with godlike micro (MVP, MKP, MMA) were destroying zergs left and right. Blizzard did not wait for the zergs to try and find and answer. They buffed zerg, nerfed terran. Simple as that. Based on a single game of MVP, Blizzard nerfed ghosts's snipe. Based on another single game of MVP against Nestea, Blizzard retracted the decision of buffing raven speed. If they were consistent with the way they deal with things, they should have nerfed infestor brood lord and corruptor 6 to 9 months ago, since EVERY zerg player IN EVERY game IN EVERY matchup uses exactly the same combination, and uses it with ease. Thus, Blizzard must nerf infestor, and nerf it heavily. Actually this is only half true. There were some zergs that actually knew how to play properly and were able to do well during that terran-dominated era (people often forget that Nestea went through a whole season without losing a match), it was just that there were so many terrans during that time (when the meta WAS imbalanced towards terran and it was a lot harder to leave code S compared to how difficult it is to stay in code S right now) that it didn't matter to people and they just complained to nerf terran instead of trying to learn to use the full utility of their race. Now the situation is entirely reversed where those same people are telling us to "learn to play terran" in the face of actual true imbalance and now is when blizzard conveniently tries to "let the game run it's course". I'm not one of those people that say all the terrans during that era were truly better players than their counterparts, but when there WERE people from the other races doing well Blizzard should have left the game alone then as opposed to now where MVP does well in ONE tournament and apparently all is right with the current iteration of the game. | ||
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aZealot
New Zealand5447 Posts
We need mammoth buffs to compensate, I tell you. MAMMOTH!!! | ||
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Serpico
4285 Posts
On November 13 2012 06:29 aZealot wrote: Given the recent comments in this thread, I just want to add that Protoss is the worst race with the worst players. We need mammoth buffs to compensate, I tell you. MAMMOTH!!! So Dustin will give you guys an electronic wooly mammoth, enjoy. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On November 13 2012 06:33 Serpico wrote: So Dustin will give you guys an electronic wooly mammoth, enjoy. Is it massive? Can I smash FFs with this mammoth? | ||
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Serpico
4285 Posts
On November 13 2012 06:39 Plansix wrote: Is it massive? Can I smash FFs with this mammoth? Nope, midget strain of the mammoth. Good luck sir. At least watching it impale marines will be really "epic" and stuff  . | ||
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c0sm0naut
United States1229 Posts
On November 13 2012 06:05 StatixEx wrote: see the whole problem with this is IT WILL NEVER BE RIGHT. when you start altering one thing, you can change another. players get better at the game and overcome it and develop new comps or doom comps/pushes. I remember this very forum telling me NEVER to build more than 6 infestors while in the current patch . . . but all the pros are building like 15????? the difference half a year makes. Look at ghosts . . i RARELY see them in ZvT anymore . . before the nerf on their damage i used to hate them and fear them, tbh, ive started to see a resurgence of the unit over the last few months but nothing like it was before the nerf. Just mark these words. zergs are having their day right now but when the nerfs come in and you realise that it opens a door to some other tactic we are right back here again. Since the game has come out, zerg was always the underpowered race and winners were always congrated for their macro level of play . . now us players have worked out the kinks and made it this way. Other races need to start messing around cos all im seeing is the same mass death ball which we were complaining about before the queen buff and this new gglord/infestor comp. because everyone is crying about the game right now ill have to side with maybe us zergs got a little bit too good, we put the time in and worked it all out so ill agree, nerf us . . but well work it out again ghosts aren't made in modern tvz because they serve essentially the same purpose as a siege tank now, they are an anti-infestor only unit now, not a broodlord or ultra unit. they cost 200/100 as opposed to siege tank 150/125 and tie up barracks time so it cuts dramatically into bio production. also, if zerg gets 1 overseer you cannot snipe broodlords. it will not happen. you can get emps and snipes off on infestors, but you will never hit a broodlord. sniping overseers used to work but there is no limit on overseer count and they cost only 50 gas. i use a mass MMM style vs z so i will have like 20 techlab raxes once we get into the very long phase and players that see even one ghost will make like 4 overseers to guard their broods. sniping them used to work, but eventually youre just using all ur energy on supply-less units | ||
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StayPhrosty
Canada406 Posts
What in the world makes you think a certain type of player picks a certain race 100% of the time? Seriously, I really don't think that EVERY zerg was bad at starcraft on release etc. The balance changes will be good, but looking at the numbers right now it's not horribly imbalanced. Sure I would love to see some changes, but that's because I enjoy a changing metagame, and I think the "attitude" of the community right now of being angry is only because the vocal ones are the angry ones. The "ladder anxiety" is overblown because people who don't have it ARE ON THE LADDER RIGHT NOW. So many players just totally avoid these kinds of threads because it's all just hatred and crying over imbalance. It's this collective 13 year old mentality. The vast majority of players will not be angry with blizzard for balancing the game. Of course if a particular race is deemed to be under powered, then more of those players will complain, but the number of people complaining is really so loosely related to actual balance that it's ridiculous. Balance and the meta game are constantly shifting, and they will be for the foreseeable future. How much enjoyment do you actually get when you lose a ladder match and spend the next 10 minutes raging at your opponent and their imba race. I honestly have SO much more fun when I either play to improve myself (and notice my mechanics/game sense getting better), or play for shits and giggles (sometimes ladder, sometimes customs, sometimes 2v2's etc) because when it's over I feel good about myself. I really think people would do better to understand that it doesn't help anything to be visibly upset over a thing that you effectively can't do anything about. Why not change the one thing you have complete control over - your own mind. If you truly think that you have no control over what makes you mad or what makes you happy then I really suggest you find talk to someone about it. Everybody has control over their life and more people need to start realizing that they can have fun with the game if they just open their mind a little to the possibility that perhaps the people WHO HAVE BEEN DOING THIS FOR A LIVING FOR DECADES are perhaps slightly more knowledgeable on game design and balance than the general public is... | ||
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c0sm0naut
United States1229 Posts
On November 13 2012 07:00 StayPhrosty wrote:Everybody has control over their life and more people need to start realizing that they can have fun with the game if they just open their mind a little to the possibility that perhaps the people WHO HAVE BEEN DOING THIS FOR A LIVING FOR DECADES are perhaps slightly more knowledgeable on game design and balance than the general public is... so dustin browder has been doing this "game design" thing for a decade now you think he would be better than platinum league, lol my mind was open when WOL was released and it has been closed after years of kneejerk balancing and the devs giving horrible interviews proving that they basically dont watch or care about sc2 anymore | ||
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LuisFrost
Mexico130 Posts
On November 13 2012 07:14 c0sm0naut wrote: so dustin browder has been doing this "game design" thing for a decade now you think he would be better than platinum league, lol my mind was open when WOL was released and it has been closed after years of kneejerk balancing and the devs giving horrible interviews proving that they basically dont watch or care about sc2 anymore By that logic, David Kim, who's actually the balance guy, is a Grand Master Random, so he'll never be wrong... | ||
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c0sm0naut
United States1229 Posts
On November 13 2012 07:21 LuisFrost wrote: By that logic, David Kim, who's actually the balance guy, is a Grand Master Random, so he'll never be wrong... is he active anymore? http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/715900/1/dayvie/ hasn't played in multiple seasons idk if he got a new acct or something, i'm just pointing it out | ||
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Hider
Denmark9433 Posts
On November 13 2012 05:50 sieksdekciw wrote: Yes. And they are still better, and the only reason they are not again in code S, is cause zergs got a bit better and were heavily helped by the imbalance that zerg is. Don't get me wrong, the skill gap is still big, but not as big as before. Terran is supposed to be overresented on ladder, GSL, foreign tournaments, other tournmanets etc. Since they are the most played race. In fact, as GSL is the only place where that is happening, it is easy to conclude that terran is heavily imbalanced. I argue that the numbers are signifacntly signifcant as well. Terran has been underpresented in masters and GM For such a long time. Everytime a terran players plays against a zerg or a protoss player, he is vastly superior to them. The average master terran player is like top 1% of his race, while the average toss/zerg is top 10%. The problem with the Blizzard team is that they just look at the statistics of the ladder, and think.. Uh TVZ on ladder = 50% (even though this is between the top 10% toss vs the top 1% teran). So obv. the terran is supposed to win a lot more than 50% if the game was balanced. | ||
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Bagi
Germany6799 Posts
On November 13 2012 07:25 c0sm0naut wrote: is he active anymore? http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/715900/1/dayvie/ hasn't played in multiple seasons idk if he got a new acct or something, i'm just pointing it out I would imagine he prefers to remain anonymous while playing, imagine the amount of complaints he gets. Can't be too hard for him to get new accounts either, lol. I think he is mostly playing the beta lately too. | ||
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FuzZyLogic
United States141 Posts
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