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Optimal Creep Spread in Theory

Forum Index > SC2 General
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Orek
Profile Joined February 2012
1665 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-07 06:28:49
November 10 2012 01:20 GMT
#1
Optimal Creep Spread in Theory


[image loading]

Creep spread by AcerScarlett @MLG Fall Championship 2012


Introduction
Zerg OP, right? Recently,”infestor OP” is the name of the game. However, half a year ago, what all the cool kids said back then was “queen OP.” Creep spread had become so out of control post-patch in May 2012 that in August, Blizzard once tried to nerf creep tumor radius in an attempt to slow Zerg creep spread, which they scrapped the idea of later on in order to “give players more opportunities to fully explore the slowly-shifting meta-game.” As a noob, I have no idea how creep spread should be balanced, nor do I care. As a research guy, all I care is concrete numbers behind creep spread, where no subjective opinion comes into play unlike balance whine. This thread is not another “use overlord to creep spread faster” or “multiple tumors spread creep faster.” Terrain factor, spread direction etc. are ignored here, too. Rather, it’s all about math. This thread attempts to mathematically prove/calculate what the optimal creep spread is. Here is the short conclusion:
When perfectly played, the total number of creep tumors increase quadratically, not exponentially, with a dedicated creeper queen, and the total number = “y” = f(x) at “x” seconds after the moment the very first creep tumor is laid down is
[image loading]

High school level math knowledge is required to fully understand the content. I believe that there are many math nerds like Day[9] in Starcraft community, but if you are not one of them, you might find it boring. Welcome to Creep Tumor Mathematics 101 class!

Prerequisite
+ Show Spoiler +

Basic math/SC2 knowledge is obviously expected, but there are some things worth mentioning here.

State of Creep Tumor
Creep tumor has 4 different states: building, cooldown, spawnable, inactive
1. Building state is the state where a creep tumor is still visible to opponent without detectors. It is the first 15 seconds after its birth. (0~15 seconds)
2. Cooldown state is the state where a creep tumor is invisible to opponent without detectors yet still unable to spawn another creep tumor. It is the second 15 seconds after its birth. (15~30 seconds)
3. Spawnable state is the state where a creep tumor is able to spawn another creep tumor after cooldown ended. (30 seconds~)
4. Inactive state is the state where a creep tumor can no longer spawn another creep tumor because it already did once.

Queen’s Energy
Queen’s Spawn Creep Tumor ability costs 25 energy. All units/structures in game regenerate energy at 0.5625 [energy/second]. Therefore, it takes 25/0.5625 = 44.44…[sec] for a queen to regenerate 25 energy for the next creep tumor. For the sake of much easier calculation, duration between 2 Spawn Creep Tumor ability usages is 45[sec] in this thread. It’s possible to calculate everything with 44.44…[sec], but this is one compromise I made to keep it simple. All the creep tumors that are directly originated from a queen, not from another creep tumor, are called “original creep tumor” in this thread.

Greatest Integer Function (Floor Function)
Greatest Integer Function [p] is the largest integer not greater than p. For example,
[3.9]=3
[4.0]=4
[4.1]=4
For reference: Wikipedia on floor and ceiling functions


Proof of the Equation
+ Show Spoiler +

As you read in the introduction, with a dedicated creeper queen, the total number of creep tumors defined as y = f(x) at x seconds after the moment the very first creep tumor is laid down is
[image loading]

This can be achieved only by a perfect play that even the best player in the world can’t perform. Regardless, it helps to know what the ultimate goal is in trying to constantly improve your play.

Proof (long and possibly difficult to understand)
The very first original creep tumor is spawned by a queen at x=0 by definition. After building state and cooldown state for 30 seconds in total, it spawns another creep tumor. Perfect play assumed in this proof means that spawnable state of a creep tumor lasts for 0 second, and the next creep tumor is spawned immediately. This reproductive cycle continues every 30 seconds. Therefore, the total number of creep tumors that stem from the first original creep tumor is
[image loading]
Greatest integer function is used because the number of creep tumors can only be an integer. (at least for now)

The second original creep tumor is spawned by the queen at x=45 because of the energy regeneration period. As a parent creep tumor, it spawns a child creep tumor after 30sec. Generation after generation, this cycle continues just like the first original creep tumor family did. With one child policy and 1 generation = 30sec, the total number of creep tumors that stem from the second original creep tumor is
[image loading]
Domain is 45=<x.

Another 45 seconds later at x=90, 3rd original creep tumor is spawned by the queen. Similarly, the total number of creep tumors that stem from the third original creep tumor is
[image loading]
45*2=90 seconds. Domain is 90=<x.

Generally, the total number of creep tumors that stem from the “n”th original creep tumor is
[image loading]
y_1~y_3 are merely specific examples. Are you all still with me?

What necessitates the greatest integer functions above is the concept that a creep tumor either counts as 1 when it exists, or counts as 0 when it doesn’t. This concept is narrow and not useful in calculating further. Therefore, by extending the concept, decimal numbers of creep tumors are allowed from here on. For example, a creep tumor that is just spawned counts as 1 creep tumor, a creep tumor that has spent 15 seconds in building state counts as 1+15/30=1.5 creep tumors, a creep tumor that has spent 15 seconds in building state and 7.5 seconds in cooldown state counts as 1+(15+7.5)/30=1.75 creep tumors, and so on. Upon reaching 1+30/30=2 creep tumors, it immediately spawns another creep tumor so that the parent one becomes inactive state that is worth 1 creep tumor again. It might help to think of a pregnant woman having a baby that becomes bigger over time in her womb until she gives birth to the baby.
[image loading]

This broader concept doesn’t contradict with narrower concept, yet so much more useful. Basically, it just eliminates the greatest integer function and makes y_n continuous. One important thing to remember is that with this broader concept, y=13 could mean that there are 10 creep tumors that are worth 1, and 2 creep tumors that are worth 1.5 so that there are only 12 you can count on a map instead of 13. Using this broader concept, the total number of creep tumors that stem from the “n”th original creep tumor is
[image loading]
It’s a big deal that [ ] doesn’t exist in this version.

Now, what we want to know is not the total number of creep tumors that stem from a particular original creep tumor but rather the grand total of them from all original creep tumors. When “r” is defined as the total number of o”r”iginal creep tumors, the grand total “y” is
[image loading]
By calculating this, (get your math textbook if it doesn’t make sense)
[image loading]
So far so good?

Because r=1 at x=0 by definition and the number of original creep tumors increase every 45 seconds because of the energy regeneration period,
[image loading]
Greatest integer function appears again when less than 25 energy of a queen is not taken into account. By allowing the number of original creep tumors to be a decimal according to queen’s energy up to 25,
[image loading]
Whether an equation has [ ] or not might look like a minor thing, but [ ] makes it impossible to calculate the equation in any meaningful way.

Now that we have 2 equations with 3 variables, “y”, “x” , and “r”, the total number of creep tumors “y” can be shown as a function of time “x”.
[image loading]
Hence, optimal creep spread should have
[image loading]
Q.E.D.

[image loading]

Does it make sense? Maybe I could have worded differently to make my proof easier to understand, but I guess the logic is coherent enough as it is. One intuitive way to check the equation is to substitute a random number for “x” and calculate “y”. f(0)=1, f(135)=13 etc. This table might help for reference.
[image loading]


Applying In-game Timings (ZvT)
+ Show Spoiler +

At 0:00, there is no queen available. Players have to mine minerals and make them. While people make queens in ZvZ and ZvP as well, ZvT has the most standardized queen timings. Of course, bad worker pairing, drone scout, sloppy execution etc. can delay these timing, but this is the standard I use in this thread:
15 hatchery at 2:10 +100sec = done at 3:50
16 pool at 2:45 + 65sec = done at 3:50
1st/2nd queen production at 3:50 +50sec = done at 4:40
1st/2nd queen injects at 4:40 + 45sec = next 25 energy for creep tumors ready at 5:25
3rd/4th queen production at 4:40 + 50sec = done at 5:30
3rd/4th queen inject at 5:30 +45sec = next 25 energy for creep tumors ready at 6:15
5th/6th queen production at 5:30 +50sec = done at 6:20
5th/6th queen inject at 6:20. They keep injecting. (6 queen build is the maximum assumed here)

Most importantly, 5:25, and 6:15 are the timings when 1st/2nd and 3rd/4th queens can use energy for creep tumors, respectively. These timing are so tight that sub-optimal play can easily delay them by 10sec or so. Note that prioritizing creep spread this way delays injects by 5 seconds every time new queens are made.

In-game time = “t” in seconds.
5:25 = 325sec
6:15 = 375sec
Therefore, for 1st/2nd queens, x=0 is at t=325. Similarly, x=0 at t=375 for 3rd/4th.
Namely, the total number of creep tumors from 1st/2nd queens is f(t-325), and f(t-375) for 3rd/4th.
[image loading]
[image loading]

The total number of creep tumors as a function of in-game time = “z”.
3 queen build = only 1st queen is used as the dedicated creeper = z_3q
StarTaleLife almost always take this path with early gas.
[image loading]

4 queen build = 1st and 2nd queens are used as the dedicated creepers = z_4q
[image loading]

Until 5th/6th queens become available for creep tumors at t=375, there is no difference among 4/5/6 queen builds.
[image loading]

5 queen build = 1st, 2nd and 3rd queens are used as the dedicated creepers = z_5q
[image loading]

6 queen build =1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th queens are used as the dedicated creepers = z_6q
[image loading]

Graph based on these equations:
[image loading]

Table:
[image loading]


Efficiency
+ Show Spoiler +

Easier calculated than done. No one in the world plays as good as the theory. Then, how efficiently are we playing compared to the optimal play in terms of creep spread? To find out, I took Scarlett’s creep spread on Cloud Kingdom as an example.
[image loading]
This game is a perfect example because her opponent StarTaleBomber applied almost no pressure for 14min, and Scarlett used 4 queen build with 2 queens exclusively for creep tumors after 5:25.

+22
05:25~08:00 22 in total
+15
08:00~09:00 37 in total
+15
09:00~10:00 52 in total
+17
10:00~11:00 69 in total
+16
11:00~12:00 85 in total
+9
12:00~13:00 94 in total

By taking these numbers as numerators and using z_4q from the table above as denominators, it is possible to calculate the efficiency.
[image loading]

One of the best creep spread I have ever seen among pro games still seems to have some room for improvement. 50-70% with 4 queen build is impressive nonetheless. In ZvT, Terran player’s job is to keep this efficiency as low as possible with hellion/banshee etc. For 4 queen build, my wild guess is that 50%+ would lead into out-of-control creep spread that covers the entire map. 20%- or so would be considered relatively bad creep spread and where Terran wants Zerg to be. 20% with 4 queen build at 13min mark would look like this:
[image loading]

+2 queen range patch must have dramatically increased this efficiency. It would be interesting if someone made a program for calculating the efficiency from replays. With y= (x+45)(x+60)/2700 equation, efficiency for any build order in ZvX with any number of queens can be calculated. Knowing projected creep spread at arbitrary time might help some build order theorycrafting.

This efficiency measurement is not without its own problem, though. Counting creep tumors in VODs/replays causes the numerators to use the greatest integer functions while such factor is eliminated for the denominators. Because of this, efficiency can never be 100% even in theory. Measuring efficiency for the first 2min or so is somewhat pointless due to high fluctuation. Also, having 90%+ efficiency is nearly impossible without some luck in picking the right moment to count. Lower than 100% theoretical ceiling makes Scarlett’s 70% look even more impressive. Despite this problem, it’s still a useful measurement in comparing the degree of creep spread.


Final Thoughts
+ Show Spoiler +

When creep spread was a popular topic right after the patch in May, I did some math on it. Slowly, the topic died down, so I decided not to post my work. Then at MLG several days ago, Scarlett showed us an amazing creep spread that convinced me to find my old work and follow through with it. Most of you probably skipped reading boring proof part, but I hope at least a few guys read the entire thread and maybe point out possible mistakes I made. If anyone has a VOD/replay that looks worth analyzing, please link. From what I’ve seen, LiquidTLO’s emphasis on creep spread gives him very high efficiency. On the other hand, Life’s emphasis on early gas and ling/muta micro tends to result in very low efficiency. Ultimately, it comes down to how much a player prioritizes creep spread with limited APM/attention. Did you enjoy reading despite tons of equations? Thank you for reading to the end. Any feedback is much appreciated. Ask me anything.


Orek's Articles/Guides
+ Show Spoiler +

+ Show Spoiler [Article etc.] +

BitByBit Fan Club
A bit on BitByBit
IlIlIlIlIlIl or lIlIlIlIlIlI?
Optimal Creep Spread in Theory
Various Businesses in Starcraft 2
Balance Discussion Math(Best of N format analysis)
Underground Activities in Starcraft 2
Artosis pylon Art
Map Size History & Analysis
Larva disappearing Glitch in 1.5 (not about 20th larva)


+ Show Spoiler [Guide] +

[G] Walling Mechanics
[G] Unit/Structure Selection Priority
[G] ~8% faster gas mining
[G] ZvT Perfect Spine placement vs 2rax Bunker
[G] Zerg Sim City for Spire protection in ZvP
[G]Health Bar Color
[G]Map Distance & Travel Time

Zenbrez
Profile Joined June 2012
Canada5973 Posts
November 10 2012 01:28 GMT
#2
Put a lot of work into this, very interesting
Refer to my post.
Oboeman
Profile Joined January 2011
Canada3980 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-10 01:47:56
November 10 2012 01:33 GMT
#3
OK that's not bad, but now calculate the area covered by creep as a function of time with different methods of creep spread.
ie - fanning them out evenly or advancing in groups of 4 (fanning out the groups, but keeping 4 tumours together for fastest directional spread).



That's very cool to have a target # of tumours to aim towards. that's crazy how far the creep gets even at 50% efficiency. Is there an AI out there somewhere that can do perfect creep spread? it doesn't need to do anything else.
TheRabidDeer
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
United States3806 Posts
November 10 2012 01:42 GMT
#4
Interesting theory. How quickly do you reach the cap on effective creep tumors for spreading?
Ghoststrikes
Profile Joined February 2011
Canada1356 Posts
November 10 2012 01:55 GMT
#5
You are awesome, the sheer amount of work you put into these threads is remarkable! Would love to see a "perfect" creep spread in-game!
Never say die
Cosmos
Profile Joined March 2010
Belgium1077 Posts
November 10 2012 01:58 GMT
#6
Don't forget that the more tumors you have, the better, even if you don't cover more area (because it's not possible), it will make the opponent kill your tumors slower (more scans needed, etc.).
http://www.twitch.tv/becosmos
Aild246
Profile Joined April 2012
United States20 Posts
November 10 2012 02:11 GMT
#7
I feel like Day9 would be ecstatic reading this.
Math and Starcraft.

Nice work.
nope
b3n3tt3
Profile Joined January 2012
595 Posts
November 10 2012 02:17 GMT
#8
more tumors, more scans to waste! yeah!!
Filter
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Canada620 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-10 02:23:45
November 10 2012 02:23 GMT
#9
How long would it take a Terran to actually clear that and cross the map with an army? Luckily very few Zergs even in the pro ranks have the skills required to have creep spread that good, but in a perfect world they would have those skills. At what point would a Terran be able to actually attack/what would be the economic cost in terms of scans to cross it?
Live hard, live free.
Hryul
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Austria2609 Posts
November 10 2012 02:27 GMT
#10
and this is the reason we should have a full functional LaTeX embedding for tl

next step: find out how many creep tumors you need on every map to reach the enemy base with perfect timing
Countdown to victory: 1 200!
Yorbon
Profile Joined December 2011
Netherlands4272 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-10 02:30:16
November 10 2012 02:29 GMT
#11
Very nice thread indeed! I scanned through most of it and agree conceptually.

I do have a remark, however. Maybe i missed some important part; in that case you can ignore this.
In this thread you describe the number of creep tumors in total. But there are active and non-active creep tumors. The number of active creep tumors is easy to describe at a point in time (every 45 seconds 1 extra active creep tumor per queen), but it might be interesting to look at the added value of each active creep tumor. I think (and of course, i did no research whatsoever) it may be possible to formulate some kind of law of diminishing returns in that regard. Of course, this is map depended as well as dependent on other factors (like opponent's intervention). Do you have any ambition of going further in that direction? Or maybe something similar to what Oboeman suggested?

@hryul: haha, agreed about latex.
Markwerf
Profile Joined March 2010
Netherlands3728 Posts
November 10 2012 02:36 GMT
#12
I cringe when i hear people call this 'a lot of math' or 'lot's or work' when it's just some elementary algebra.

Besides that, this is almost a completely futile exercise as nothing useful is derived from it. The premise of non-stop making tumors is not even desireable given you want some transfuses anyway... weirder though that there is absolutely no linkage between number of tumors and actual creep spread in the topic..

chuminh
Profile Joined October 2010
Australia36 Posts
November 10 2012 02:37 GMT
#13
reading from the tables, I assume that this equation is for spreading creep from 1 queen only? if player uses 2 queens ( I guess Scarlett uses more than 1 queen to spread from what I saw, then the efficiency must be lower in half.). Am I wrong?
Solarsail
Profile Joined July 2012
United Kingdom538 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-10 02:46:59
November 10 2012 02:45 GMT
#14
On November 10 2012 11:36 Markwerf wrote:
I cringe when i hear people call this 'a lot of math' or 'lot's or work' when it's just some elementary algebra.

Besides that, this is almost a completely futile exercise as nothing useful is derived from it. The premise of non-stop making tumors is not even desireable given you want some transfuses anyway... weirder though that there is absolutely no linkage between number of tumors and actual creep spread in the topic..



This. If the thread was truly about the fastest possible creep spread, then continuous production of queens from n hatches would be included, and statistics about how much of the map should be covered as a function of time would be included.It's creep and not creep tumours that are desirable.
Everyone left over is a member of the OP race and you have to figure out which one of them is the least OP. - CosmicSpiral
ZigguratOfUr
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Iraq16955 Posts
November 10 2012 02:49 GMT
#15
Very interesting theoretical work, but much less applicable to real games than most of Orek's previous work. There are a multitude of factors that would influence efficiency in an actual game, making this work basically meaningless from a practical standpoint.
Ballistixz
Profile Joined January 2010
United States1269 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-10 03:03:16
November 10 2012 03:01 GMT
#16
no offense but there is nothing concrete when u theory craft with numbers alone. if u want real concrete answers then play the game, cute equations wont get u very far because there are to many unknown factors.

High school level math knowledge is required to fully understand the content.


this is more middle school level math knowledge tho.
Carnate
Profile Joined September 2010
United States62 Posts
November 10 2012 03:08 GMT
#17
As a practice tool this would be a nice addition to a custom map. Show a player how well they are constantly dropping tumors and using the active tumors. You would need a way to designate how many queens are on poop duty a reserve for emergency transfuses. But showing a player a concrete number help them to see if and how much improvement to practice for.
TheGreenMachine
Profile Joined March 2010
United States730 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-10 03:21:21
November 10 2012 03:18 GMT
#18
I def expected a comparison of spreading tumors max distance as soon as theyre on cooldown vs spreading them at the same time you spread new tumor with creep queens (the latter is much more manageable). As you get more creep spread per action.

Or some kind of # of tumors to go specific directions

TBH i didnt learn anything here thats useful in game... was there anything useful other than a rough idea of what potential creep spread # of tumors is?
Don't forget to get everyone you know to play HOTS so this game we love called Starcraft will live on. Every little bit helps. ^^
MasterCynical
Profile Joined September 2012
505 Posts
November 10 2012 03:25 GMT
#19
This thread is not another “use overlord to creep spread faster” or “multiple tumors spread creep faster.”


I have the solution to everyone's creep needs: Nydus Worms

But seriously, great read = )
D_K_night
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada615 Posts
November 10 2012 03:27 GMT
#20
On November 10 2012 12:01 Ballistixz wrote:
no offense but there is nothing concrete when u theory craft with numbers alone. if u want real concrete answers then play the game, cute equations wont get u very far because there are to many unknown factors.

Show nested quote +
High school level math knowledge is required to fully understand the content.


this is more middle school level math knowledge tho.


No it isn't. Are you seriously stating that some high school kid would be able to figure all the equations out, on his own?

Middle school you're just learning whatever the teacher is instructing from the blackboard, and doing assigned exercises. No chance in hell that suddenly a high school kid has an epiphany and suddenly just comes up with all these formulas out of thin air.

You're missing the entire point of this. What is the theoretical, fastest possible way to creep up the entire map, backed up by solid math and evidence? This post is it. Please don't be so condescending, especially when, in your words, "there is nothing concrete" that you could even come up with any of this.
Canada
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