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Balance Discussion Math(Best of N format analysis)

Forum Index > SC2 General
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Orek
Profile Joined February 2012
1665 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-09 09:46:56
August 21 2012 13:27 GMT
#1
Balance Discussion Math(Best of N format analysis)


Please refrain from discussing balance itself here. Nowhere in this thread do I use the words: Terran/Zerg/Protoss. It is unnecessary to use these terms to prove my point, or disagree with my argument.

INTRODUCTION
Many of you opened this thread probably because of the word “Balance” in the title. Balance discussion threads have been rampant for years despite the fact Designated Balance Discussion Thread exists. (Do balance talk there, not here) Those balance related threads attract many viewers and posters as well as whiners and defenders. This is not another “this race/unit is so OP and needs nerf” thread. Instead, this thread attempts to mathematically prove that using tournament results as a source of balance discussion could be misleading if not used correctly. I recently posted random stuffs like Artosis pylon Art or Underground Activities in Starcraft 2, but this thread is more relevant and not as entertaining. No funny images but only graphs and tables. Thoroughness is the only common theme among all of my posts. Basic high school level math might be required to fully understand or independently confirm my work. Let me know if there is any miscalculation.

Definition
+ Show Spoiler +

OP = overpowered.
UP = underpowered.
Best of 1 = 1 win is required to beat your opponent.
Best of 3 Series= 2 wins are required to beat your opponent.
Best of 5 Series = 3 wins are required to beat your opponent.
N = {1,3,5} Could be higher odd numbers.
x = win rate of OP race. 0.500 < x < 1.0000
1-x = win rate of UP race. 0.0000 < 1-x < 0.5000
f(x) = win rate of OP race in best of 1 as a function of x
g(x) = win rate of OP race in best of 3 as a function of x
h(x) = win rate of OP race in best of 5 as a function of x
Race A = OP race. It wins more than 50% vs Race B. This thread assumes OP race exists. Statistical probability is the only attribute it has, not player skill/map/meta game etc.
Race B = UP race. It wins less than 50% vs Race A.
Race C = the other race. Basically ignored so that 1 race vs 1 race calculation becomes clear.
OPlevel = x in percentage. 50% < OPlevel < 100%


Best of N win rate Calculation
+ Show Spoiler +

Visual Representation of Best of 3
[image loading]
[image loading]

Visual Representation of Best of 5
[image loading]
[image loading]

Best of 1 win rate is f(x) = x for obvious reason. All of these 3 functions are defined between 50% and 100%.


Graph
+ Show Spoiler +

[image loading]
[image loading]
[image loading]
As you can see, f(x) < g(x) < h(x) at all points. That is, best of 3 win rate is always higher than that of best of 1 at the same OPlevel. Best of 5 win rate is even higher than that of best of 3 as well. At 60.00% OPlevel, Race A wins 64.80% in best of 3 series, and 68.26% in best of 5 series. This means that best of non-1 series favors Race A even more, when Race A is already OP in the first place. The more wins you need, the better deal Race A gets just from the format.


Multiple Best of N series
+ Show Spoiler +

This section assumes ideal tournaments. One Race A player plays against Race B players twice. At a separate setting, one race B player plays against Race A players twice. For the first Race A player, it is as if winning a 4 player tournament with ABBB race distribution. For the latter Race B player at a separate setting, it is as if wining a 4 player tournament with BAAA race distribution. Since there are 4 players involved, both have 1/4 = 25.00% chances to win the separate tournaments if 2 races are totally balanced at 50-50. Take a look at how OPlevel affects the win rate.
[image loading]
[image loading]

Extending the idea, ABBBBBBB & BAAAAAAA 8 player tournaments with 1/8 = 12.50% standard chance to win.
[image loading]
[image loading]

These tournaments don’t happen in reality due to mirror matches and existence of Race C. Nevertheless, these graphs essentially show how easier it is for OP race to place high in a tournament compared to UP race even with relatively small OPlevel like 52.50% or 55.00%. 70% OPlevel is not required to “look like” 70% OP from tournament placements. Since almost all tournaments have multiple rounds of Best of 3 or 5, the tournament format itself emphasizes OP&UP states in this way.


Conclusion
+ Show Spoiler +

Whenever you see someone argue balance with statements like “There are 5 Race A players in Round of 8” or “7 tournaments are won by Race A players in the last 10,” you have to take these with a grain of salt. They are trying to impose the image that Race A is super OP with 70-80% OPlevel, when in fact; Race A is likely to have only 55% or so OPlevel. Although one cannot deny the fact that Race A is OP, it is not as much as people make it to be from those results. Along with player skill and other factors, the tournament format factor plays a role here as I presented above. Citing recent tournament results as a source of balance discussion could be misleading because OPlevel always gets exaggerated. You always have to examine individual map-by-map results instead of how many of which race placed high in a tournament. Racial distribution section of tournament liquipedia is not a good source to start your balance discussion.

Sadly, we only spectate tournament matches. Therefore, our image of a race tends to be exaggerated by seeing Race A players more often due to them advancing further, partially thanks to the format that makes Race A look more OP than its actual OPlevel unlike 1-match-only ladder games. This may be one of the reasons why actual overall win rate of UP race is not as bad as some think it is. Tournaments with multiple rounds of best of N series are destined to be biased in favor of OP race. We have no choice, but accept it. Just know that it is a biased format.


Final Thought
+ Show Spoiler +

Race A could be any of the 3 races. Which race is Race A is 100% irrelevant to my point. It could be one race today, but it could be another race 1 year from now. My point still stands no matter which race is widely considered Race A at that particular point of time. Note that I already acknowledged that Race A is OP. Nowhere in this thread did I deny that fact. “OP race is OP anyways” goes nowhere and is missing the point.

Some might have thought this was another cool picture thread from me, but it’s not. I don’t think this thread was interesting for majority or readers, but I hope at least some found it intriguiging.


Orek's Articles/Guides
+ Show Spoiler +

+ Show Spoiler [Article etc.] +

BitByBit Fan Club
A bit on BitByBit
IlIlIlIlIlIl or lIlIlIlIlIlI?
Optimal Creep Spread in Theory
Various Businesses in Starcraft 2
Balance Discussion Math(Best of N format analysis)
Underground Activities in Starcraft 2
Artosis pylon Art
Map Size History & Analysis
Larva disappearing Glitch in 1.5 (not about 20th larva)


+ Show Spoiler [Guide] +

[G] Walling Mechanics
[G] Unit/Structure Selection Priority
[G] ~8% faster gas mining
[G] ZvT Perfect Spine placement vs 2rax Bunker
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DrahtMaul
Profile Joined July 2011
Germany74 Posts
August 21 2012 14:15 GMT
#2
This is a really interesting article. Somehow this always was in my mind, but I've never done the math on it and I never assumed that the impact would be that high.

Keep up that amazing work!
imallinson
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
United Kingdom3482 Posts
August 21 2012 14:31 GMT
#3
It's fascinating just how small the OPness can be to create a large skew in tournament results. It highlights just how volatile balance is even in a two race setup. It's also funny that having more games in a series actually increases the effect of OPness when I think most people's assumption would be that it decreases the effect.
Liquipedia
FluoCrazyKenny
Profile Joined July 2011
France90 Posts
August 21 2012 14:40 GMT
#4
I like the concept and I like your conclusion because I often thought that "overall win rate" is not really relevant of balance. Like you, having a high degree in science (with lot of math in it) help me to understand but it's quite difficult to make it clear to everybody. I think it still needs some more explanation because all the graphs are quite confusion (especially the X best of N series win rates). May be some legend on the axis should have been appreciated.

Keep up the good work, I really like what you are doing.
Dustin_Butthead
Profile Joined August 2012
36 Posts
August 21 2012 14:44 GMT
#5
I'm confused.

Win rate x on mapA is not the same as win rate x on mapB. It should be x'. And x'' on mapC.
Who cares about making a good game. Hey guys, WHAT'S COOOOOOOOOL?!?!?!?!?!
eScaper-tsunami
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Canada313 Posts
August 21 2012 14:46 GMT
#6
Overall winrate is averaged through maps and racial matchups. A BoX series keeps racial matchup consistent but changes maps throughout the series which is not at all factored in this analysis. Winrate is not a independent random variable, it's a random process.
RuhRoh is my herO
Juliette
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States6003 Posts
August 21 2012 14:47 GMT
#7
please keep making articles, very interesting!^^
OKAY FROM THAT PERSPECTIVE I SEE WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT
sCCrooked
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Korea (South)1306 Posts
August 21 2012 14:49 GMT
#8
Very interesting read. I wish more people who post about balance whine would read and consider these sorts of facts before they get all emotional and nonsensical about "the states of things".
Enlightened in an age of anti-intellectualism and quotidian repetitiveness of asinine assumptive thinking. Best lycan guide evar --> "Fixing solo queue all pick one game at a time." ~KwarK-
MilesTeg
Profile Joined September 2010
France1271 Posts
August 21 2012 14:50 GMT
#9
I just want to say you're turning into my favourite poster in this site. A great honour, I know, and I do not use those words lightly.
Scrutinizer
Profile Joined April 2011
170 Posts
August 21 2012 15:10 GMT
#10
The approach can also be translated well into individual players:

It correlates well with how a longer series helps the "OP" one of the 2 competitors more, as higher number of matches played lowers the volatility and allows the skill difference in % (aka OPness) to shine thorugh.

Interestingly enough, having BoX setups in competitive gaming also helps create legends, it works so that the small difference between the top players can be magnified and allow the better ones (even if better by a relatively small margin) to have runs in tournaments.
y0su
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
Finland7871 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-21 15:28:53
August 21 2012 15:27 GMT
#11
EDIT: pretty much what the post above mine said :D + Show Spoiler +
If you change "OPlevel" to "skill level" it pretty much sums the whole reason to do larger boX games (the better player is more likely to win the more games they play).

I do like the point that it takes only a small level of imbalance to strongly favor an OP race deeper in a tournament...
Although, maybe that actually gives some credibility to "having more race A in the ro4 onward" actually suggesting there is a (small) imbalance? o.O Granted, with the wide range of skill between players as well as other factors (mind games, jet lag, lag, w/e) it's impossible to show anything from just a few tournaments
ArcticRaven
Profile Joined August 2011
France1406 Posts
August 21 2012 15:35 GMT
#12
On August 21 2012 23:47 Juliette wrote:
please keep making articles, very interesting!^^


I fully support this.
[Govie] Wierd shit, on a 6 game AP winning streak with KOTL in the trench. I searched gandalf quotes and spammed them all game long, trenchwarfare247, whateva it takes!
moskonia
Profile Joined January 2011
Israel1448 Posts
August 21 2012 23:05 GMT
#13
Dude this is awesome! well written. I don't know if you knew this but Blizzard considers a 45% to 55% "balanced" which means that if a race is balanced according to them it would simply dominate the tournaments, very interesting to think about
aiuradun
Profile Joined February 2011
Denmark115 Posts
August 21 2012 23:13 GMT
#14
good work really intresting read allthough my math is somewhat lackluster since i havent used it in forever (more or less)

also this should pretty much be the same if we say Player A is lets say 4% better than player B so its 54% and therefore BO5 offc gives him an edge which is offc why high bo's are standard, The issue offc being how do you messure player skill :-)
algorithm0r
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada486 Posts
August 21 2012 23:21 GMT
#15
Orek this is very well written and shows a strong understanding of the math underlying balance. I'm certain the balance guys at Blizzard take this into consideration.

An interesting additional point: "Race A" and "Race B" can easily be replaced with "Player A" and "Player B" regardless of race. Indeed this is how we assume the best players win the tournaments they do. However, I think given this the win rates of tournaments, even of individual games/maps, is deeply confounded with the players who are playing. Every Race A vs Race B matchup is also a Player X vs Player Y matchup. How do we decide it was a Race related discrepancy and not a Player related one to explain any win rate phenomena? When you have a vast pool of individual games pulled from tournaments you have not actually randomly selected matchups... you have a deeply confounded morass from which it is hard to draw any reasonable conclusion.
Chill
Profile Blog Joined January 2005
Calgary25981 Posts
August 21 2012 23:25 GMT
#16
Interesting. Makes sense.
Moderator
Orek
Profile Joined February 2012
1665 Posts
August 22 2012 12:20 GMT
#17
Hi. OP here.

As some pointed out, yes, the result can be applied to 2 players where one is favored.
Best of 5 favors overall better player more than best of 3 does.
Also, introducing losers bracket to increase the number of best of N favors overall better player as well.
Although I wouldn't do it here, it is possible to calculate which of the two formats favors real good players: single elimination best of 5 OR double elimination best of 3. It must depend on the number of participants.

As I expected, math-related thread didn't explode in viewership like cool picture thread did. Nevertheless, thanks for the support and positive feedback. If I don't give up on the way, I have another math project coming up as well as picture thread.
Ragnarork
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
France9034 Posts
August 22 2012 12:39 GMT
#18
I find this very interesting. Wouldn't have done it myself, lazy as I am ^_^

And by the way, it's not the only argument one could use to say "talking about OPness is irrelevant".

Indeed, players aren't robots (well... I know a few guys that could argue about Mvp :D), and aren't playing exactly the same games on the same maps against the same opponents, even for the most consistent of them.

And the fact that there are different skill levels, that sometimes a player can have a glimpse of brilliance, or the exact opposite, won't help in having the 3 race at the exact same winrates of 50% in all match-ups...

Great post ! Don't think in terms of viewership for your thread, quality is relevant, not quantity ^_^
LiquipediaWanderer
revy
Profile Joined September 2009
United States1524 Posts
August 22 2012 13:42 GMT
#19
A comment on the presentation of your graphs. It's generally poor form to not label the ordinate and abscissa.

As for the actual content, I'm glad you took the time to do this. It's of course expected, but it's nice to put your finger on exactly how important a BOX improves the odds of the better player advancing.
Setev
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Malaysia390 Posts
August 22 2012 13:52 GMT
#20
First of all, very very detailed work by OP, and marvelous job done. But I keep getting confused by all those colours and graphs. IMO drawing all those colourful tables will confuse people instead of clarifying. Why not use probability trees instead? IMO I think they are much better diagrams than tables. Just my 2 cents =D

+ Show Spoiler +
Anyway, a simpler way to explain will be to use the Binomial Theorem.

Let P(A) = Probability that OP race wins a best of n series,
P(B) = Probability that UP race wins a best of n series

p = probability that OP race will win the match
q = 1 -p = probability UP race will win the match
n = total number of games played
rp = number of games won by OP race
rq = number of games won by UP race

P(A) = nCrp * (p)^rp * (q)^(n-rp) for rp = 1,2,3,..,n

P(B) = nCrq * (p)^rq * (q)^(n-rq) for rq = 1,2,3,...,n

We'll notice that P(A) - P(B) will get more apparent the higher the value of n.
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