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On November 07 2012 11:14 gulshngill wrote:
Blizzard needs to stop looking at winrates when it comes to balancing the game. Sure it helps but only to some extent.
They have to look at HOW the games are played for them to win. Most protoss and terran players are pretty much going all-in before zergs get infestors or hive-tech out every game and it's boring watching the same thing over and over again.
Yeah, zergs should have some early all in options too. Skillwalls are so outdated.
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On November 07 2012 11:51 TimeFlighT wrote:
David Kim said firebats were only used 1 in 100 games?
What is he watching, fastest map possible NR20 games in Brood War?
That's what I was wondering. Sure they weren't used all game long but I saw firebats in tvz all the time as an early unit.
That second interview if medivacs can heal mech that would be stupid as well. In short hots isn't looking so exciting and I think zvp is going to remain the same boring match up as well  .
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On November 07 2012 11:51 TimeFlighT wrote:
David Kim said firebats were only used 1 in 100 games?
What is he watching, fastest map possible NR20 games in Brood War?
it may easily have been a joke, remember this is a spoken interview, transcribed into korean, translated into english, some things will be lost or misinterpreted, or he may simply be exaggerating even if he's not joking X)
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Northern Ireland26255 Posts
On November 07 2012 12:02 Fr0d0 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2012 11:14 gulshngill wrote:
Blizzard needs to stop looking at winrates when it comes to balancing the game. Sure it helps but only to some extent.
They have to look at HOW the games are played for them to win. Most protoss and terran players are pretty much going all-in before zergs get infestors or hive-tech out every game and it's boring watching the same thing over and over again. Yeah, zergs should have some early all in options too. Skillwalls are so outdated.
The sad thing is that top, top notch Zergs are more than capable of winning with skill, good timings and good mechanics, without turtling to BL/Infestor, look at some of Life and Leenock's play this MLG, Zerg is my least favourite of the three races but I loved watching some of their play. I think the fallacy is that Infestors are seen to need to be as strong as they are because Zerg have 'no good units' when that isn't necessarily the case
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david kim wrote:
However, we still think that BL-Infestor composition isn't a big deal.
Broodlord/Infestor too strong?
David Kim: No biggie.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
lol
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On November 07 2012 12:05 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2012 11:51 TimeFlighT wrote:
David Kim said firebats were only used 1 in 100 games?
What is he watching, fastest map possible NR20 games in Brood War?
That's what I was wondering. Sure they weren't used all game long but I saw firebats in tvz all the time as an early unit. That second interview if medivacs can heal mech that would be stupid as well. In short hots isn't looking so exciting and I think zvp is going to remain the same boring match up as well .
Not a concern from my point of view. Firebats in BW are the reapers of SC2 - I don't have an issue with saying that "firebats were 1 in a 100 games" when the point is that firebats are only used in small numbers in the early game and not every game.
Interviews are heartening on the whole. Disappointing that they still consider overall balance of a matchup and not balance of a matchup at varying time periods in the game. For instance, PvZ may be statistically balanced - but when wonwonwon gets an insane percentage in the midgame and infestor/BL the same later on, that isn't a good balance.
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thanks wwowz for the translations 
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From the second interview..... I'm speechless. He still think fungal is the only problem of infestor. So wrong, so wrong.
David Kim :"Looking at the overall tournaments, we believe that there is balance in pro-gaming level. Although we have been getting tons of feedbacks on Zerg being OP, if we take a look at last 10 major tournamets, racial distributions in players and winners are balanced. Although it may seemed that Zerg's late game is unbeatable, W/L ratio is still being balanced at 50:50. At this time we have to wait for new strategies from progamers.
Currently the most widely discussed unit is BL - Infestor combination.If the dominance is present in both ZvP and ZvT, we are willing to reduce the range the fungal growth or reduce the radius. If this is only applicable to ZvP, we are willing to buff carriers by making interceptors immune to fungal growth. However, we still think that BL-Infestor composition isn't a big deal.
Terran's Bio force are dominating in early and mid game. Considering the variety of metagame, we don't see any problem in this. In HOTS, we are going to make mech play more viable so that progamers can use both bio and mech depending on their characteristics. "
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from second interview
However, we still think that BL-Infestor composition isn't a big deal.
I understand not wanting to release a balance patch before WCS or really any of the Nov tournaments, but to say BL-Infestor is not a big deal is a MASSIVE FACEPALM.
BL-Infestor will do tons of damage to SC2 e-sports interest if no balance patch is releasd in the next 1-2 months. HotS will hopefully change a lot of things up, but it looks like HotS is still a ways off before release.
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On November 07 2012 12:14 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2012 12:02 Fr0d0 wrote:On November 07 2012 11:14 gulshngill wrote:
Blizzard needs to stop looking at winrates when it comes to balancing the game. Sure it helps but only to some extent.
They have to look at HOW the games are played for them to win. Most protoss and terran players are pretty much going all-in before zergs get infestors or hive-tech out every game and it's boring watching the same thing over and over again. Yeah, zergs should have some early all in options too. Skillwalls are so outdated. The sad thing is that top, top notch Zergs are more than capable of winning with skill, good timings and good mechanics, without turtling to BL/Infestor, look at some of Life and Leenock's play this MLG, Zerg is my least favourite of the three races but I loved watching some of their play. I think the fallacy is that Infestors are seen to need to be as strong as they are because Zerg have 'no good units' when that isn't necessarily the case
It is not about balance or skill. Zerg just have no additional early game path like 2rax-pressure-expand or forge-offensive cannons-expand with even game afterwards. The choice between taking 3rd early or bit later is pretty boring to watch every game.
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*preparing popcorn for avilo's incoming post*
To be honest though, I am KINDA speechless about the second interview's answers... It is kinda crazy. I wish they were more transparent about why they think that way - - like i wish we got to see all the stuff he sees (or at least more). to make that statement.
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It's not a question as to whether infestor/BL is/isn't OP or whether the match ups are all 50/50–it's simply boring to watch infestor/BL
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They should totally consider medivacs being able to heal both bio and mech and hellbat can be redesigned to an independent unit that incorporates some features from warhoud.
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On November 07 2012 12:44 Fr0d0 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2012 12:14 Wombat_NI wrote:On November 07 2012 12:02 Fr0d0 wrote:On November 07 2012 11:14 gulshngill wrote:
Blizzard needs to stop looking at winrates when it comes to balancing the game. Sure it helps but only to some extent.
They have to look at HOW the games are played for them to win. Most protoss and terran players are pretty much going all-in before zergs get infestors or hive-tech out every game and it's boring watching the same thing over and over again. Yeah, zergs should have some early all in options too. Skillwalls are so outdated. The sad thing is that top, top notch Zergs are more than capable of winning with skill, good timings and good mechanics, without turtling to BL/Infestor, look at some of Life and Leenock's play this MLG, Zerg is my least favourite of the three races but I loved watching some of their play. I think the fallacy is that Infestors are seen to need to be as strong as they are because Zerg have 'no good units' when that isn't necessarily the case It is not about balance or skill. Zerg just have no additional early game path like 2rax-pressure-expand or forge-offensive cannons-expand with even game afterwards. The choice between taking 3rd early or bit later is pretty boring to watch every game.
10 pools follow by eco doesn't seem to fall behind too much. 2 rax pressure falls behind as well. That is why you see most terrans double expand after which is very open to roach/bane counters.
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Blah blah balance this balance that. Zerg didn't win a starleague until 4 years into BW's proscene but things turned out alright. Why? I'm guessing because the game was still fun to watch.
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On November 07 2012 13:03 red4ce wrote:
Blah blah balance this balance that. Zerg didn't win a starleague until 4 years into BW's proscene but things turned out alright. Why? I'm guessing because the game was still fun to watch.
Wow I did not know that. Good thing that didn't happen in sc2 for any race or my lord would the QQ still be ginormous for whichever race hadn't won a GSL by now xD
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I'm honestly surprised he's making statements like "infestor broodlord is not a big deal" 2 weeks before their own tournament featuring nothing but PvZ all day everyday shows just how wrong they are.
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On November 07 2012 12:51 trifecta wrote:
It's not a question as to whether infestor/BL is/isn't OP or whether the match ups are all 50/50–it's simply boring to watch infestor/BL
Well, i guess its time to make another Orb post. Maybe we cant get Infestor Broodlord cut.
= P
Seriously though, it astounds me that they haven't commented on how Infestor Broodlord based play is extremely stale to watch, and these are the developers who thought that siege lines were stale to watch...
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I've quit sc2 and returned to Dota 2, I weep for you guys and the Kespa pros future.
Oh dear this interview.
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EPT
