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On October 25 2012 22:17 Antyee wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 22:07 ACrow wrote:On October 25 2012 21:53 HeroHenry wrote:On October 25 2012 21:31 Snowbear wrote:On October 25 2012 19:31 dragonsuper wrote:
Actually the difficulty in LOL is the sinergy of the team, not certainly the mechanics.
The problem here is the money goes where spectators are... and SC2 is boring so no spectators there anymore.
They could have supported BW more instead of forcing kespa to come to sc2.
Players cannot save a game that is boring by design.
Designers of Colossi ,ball of death ,clumping, anti micro spells , superdamage units, are really the sole responsible of this crysis.
The only viewers LoL gets are the people that play the game. I am sure a ton of people watch sc2 even tough they don't play it. I still have to meet the first non-LoL player that actually likes the game. I gave it a chance, a ton of my friends gave it a chance, and guess what? It's so damn boring. The teamplay can be nice to watch, but the individual skill is just not special. Let me explain why I think that fps games like counterstrike are much more suited to be an esportsgame: in counterstrike there are 2 things that can make you excited: 1) the teamplay (LoL has this, good), 2) the individual skill (aim, reaction time, movement, clutches) (LoL doesn't have this at all imo). When I watch sc2 I can be really amazed by a player's speed, genius moves and builds, insane unit control, sick macro, etc. When I watch counterstrike I can be really amazed by a player's aim and movement, and by teamplay. I don't have that feeling with LoL, and I am not alone. You talk about spectators leaving sc2? I don't agree at all. Look at recent tournament views, it's still insane. LoL has bigger viewers, I agree, but LoL is also a much more casual game. Isn't it logical that more people prefer casual games over the hard games? What do you want when you come home from a whole day of work? A game that requires sick speed, thinking and dedication or a game that requires only 10% of that? Look around you try to find someone with a competitive soul. You will notice that 80% of the people are 1) not competitive at all, 2) unable to take losses. Conclusion: LoL has more viewers because it has more players because it is much more casual and easier. Does this mean that sc2 is boring and dead? Crysis? Because a few players are leaving sc2? What about 100+ kespa players moving to sc2? What about flash already providing us sick games, only after a few months of playing? A lot of people don't play, but they watch doesn't really seem like all that. Starcraft 2 can't even break 50k veiwers... Even Dreamhack Bucharest (a rather minor event with close to no big names in attendance) broke 50k. We had WCS Europe a while ago, exceeding 120k. So maybe, just maybe, don't talk out of your ass? Why is it that there are so many sore, depressed ex-BWfanbois-turned-LoLfanbois here spouting nonsense all week? It's getting annoying. You should check these threads, and actually read the comments. Most of the comments are retarded MOBA-haters writing nonsense or bragging about how much more skill SC requires. And DH Bucharest didn't break 50k. At least people were posting a lot about how DH had less viewers than a single LoL player (Oddone with 20-25k). Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 22:14 SupLilSon wrote:
You do realize that lots of the LoL pros are players that failed miserably at going pro in HON/DOTA right? Chu was a great HON player but never could compete with the top of DOTA, in a month he became the best LoL player. Shame non of this is true. Chu hasn't done anything in LoL apart from grinding soloQ and failing in real competition with his team.
You know why he isn't playing DOTA? Because he wouldn't even find himself on a real pro team. Truth sucks bro.
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On October 25 2012 21:31 Snowbear wrote:
The only viewers LoL gets are the people that play the game. I am sure a ton of people watch sc2 even tough they don't play it.
I still have to meet the first non-LoL player that actually likes the game.
I don't play LoL at all, but during 1st season finals at dreamhack 2011, I was so entertained by the LoL streams that I didn't watch a single SC2 game! As times goes by LoL remains interesting and SC2 gets more boring.
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his game vs. nestea was by far my favorite game of that season! i actually went back and watched a couple more times over the last months. "tasteless, get me a cigarette!"- gotta' love that part after the banes hit.
too bad that shortly after this his lungs collapsed over and over again. had that not been...
anyways best of luck in the future!
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On October 25 2012 22:43 SupLilSon wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On October 25 2012 22:17 Antyee wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 22:07 ACrow wrote:On October 25 2012 21:53 HeroHenry wrote:On October 25 2012 21:31 Snowbear wrote:On October 25 2012 19:31 dragonsuper wrote:
Actually the difficulty in LOL is the sinergy of the team, not certainly the mechanics.
The problem here is the money goes where spectators are... and SC2 is boring so no spectators there anymore.
They could have supported BW more instead of forcing kespa to come to sc2.
Players cannot save a game that is boring by design.
Designers of Colossi ,ball of death ,clumping, anti micro spells , superdamage units, are really the sole responsible of this crysis.
The only viewers LoL gets are the people that play the game. I am sure a ton of people watch sc2 even tough they don't play it. I still have to meet the first non-LoL player that actually likes the game. I gave it a chance, a ton of my friends gave it a chance, and guess what? It's so damn boring. The teamplay can be nice to watch, but the individual skill is just not special. Let me explain why I think that fps games like counterstrike are much more suited to be an esportsgame: in counterstrike there are 2 things that can make you excited: 1) the teamplay (LoL has this, good), 2) the individual skill (aim, reaction time, movement, clutches) (LoL doesn't have this at all imo). When I watch sc2 I can be really amazed by a player's speed, genius moves and builds, insane unit control, sick macro, etc. When I watch counterstrike I can be really amazed by a player's aim and movement, and by teamplay. I don't have that feeling with LoL, and I am not alone. You talk about spectators leaving sc2? I don't agree at all. Look at recent tournament views, it's still insane. LoL has bigger viewers, I agree, but LoL is also a much more casual game. Isn't it logical that more people prefer casual games over the hard games? What do you want when you come home from a whole day of work? A game that requires sick speed, thinking and dedication or a game that requires only 10% of that? Look around you try to find someone with a competitive soul. You will notice that 80% of the people are 1) not competitive at all, 2) unable to take losses. Conclusion: LoL has more viewers because it has more players because it is much more casual and easier. Does this mean that sc2 is boring and dead? Crysis? Because a few players are leaving sc2? What about 100+ kespa players moving to sc2? What about flash already providing us sick games, only after a few months of playing? A lot of people don't play, but they watch doesn't really seem like all that. Starcraft 2 can't even break 50k veiwers... Even Dreamhack Bucharest (a rather minor event with close to no big names in attendance) broke 50k. We had WCS Europe a while ago, exceeding 120k. So maybe, just maybe, don't talk out of your ass? Why is it that there are so many sore, depressed ex-BWfanbois-turned-LoLfanbois here spouting nonsense all week? It's getting annoying. You should check these threads, and actually read the comments. Most of the comments are retarded MOBA-haters writing nonsense or bragging about how much more skill SC requires. And DH Bucharest didn't break 50k. At least people were posting a lot about how DH had less viewers than a single LoL player (Oddone with 20-25k). Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 22:14 SupLilSon wrote:
You do realize that lots of the LoL pros are players that failed miserably at going pro in HON/DOTA right? Chu was a great HON player but never could compete with the top of DOTA, in a month he became the best LoL player. Shame non of this is true. Chu hasn't done anything in LoL apart from grinding soloQ and failing in real competition with his team. You know why he isn't playing DOTA? Because he wouldn't even find himself on a real pro team. Truth sucks bro.
He isn't in a pro team(never really been).
He tried to make a team, it didn't work, he quit. Not much alter the team disbanded. He wasn't anywhere near pro.
Could you just stop your stupid, non-existent argument?
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Alot of you guys are reading way too into this. Puzzle, Coca and Min all have a terrible taste in their mouth with the SlayerS drama and sC wasn't really seeing results any more. The competitive scene is completely over-saturated with absolute beast talent. This is going to get "worse" before it gets better, in forms of people "retiring" (even though I have reservations that some of these players will return when HOTS drops at a balanced, polish launch)
That said, gl sC!
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Thanks for the games, and gl hf!
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On October 25 2012 23:29 Hollick wrote:
Alot of you guys are reading way too into this. Puzzle, Coca and Min all have a terrible taste in their mouth with the SlayerS drama and sC wasn't really seeing results any more. The competitive scene is completely over-saturated with absolute beast talent. This is going to get "worse" before it gets better, in forms of people "retiring" (even though I have reservations that some of these players will return when HOTS drops at a balanced, polish launch)
That said, gl sC!
....which is currently looking like it wont happen for a long time.
HOTS multiplayer in it's current state is practically ALPHA, they are making enormous changes and units are completely redesigned every patch. They don't have enough people playing the BETA to even properly mass test the changes imo. I highly doubt HOTS itself will be enough to bring SC2 out ahead of the other games or stop players switching.
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On October 26 2012 01:09 malaan wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 23:29 Hollick wrote:
Alot of you guys are reading way too into this. Puzzle, Coca and Min all have a terrible taste in their mouth with the SlayerS drama and sC wasn't really seeing results any more. The competitive scene is completely over-saturated with absolute beast talent. This is going to get "worse" before it gets better, in forms of people "retiring" (even though I have reservations that some of these players will return when HOTS drops at a balanced, polish launch)
That said, gl sC! ....which is currently looking like it wont happen for a long time. HOTS multiplayer in it's current state is practically ALPHA, they are making enormous changes and units are completely redesigned every patch. They don't have enough people playing the BETA to even properly mass test the changes imo. I highly doubt HOTS itself will be enough to bring SC2 out ahead of the other games or stop players switching.
This has very little to do with SC2 and more the fact that 100 Kespa players just entered the Korean player pool.
Do you realize how difficult the Code A qualifiers were before this? Imagine it now. You have to get incredible luck or be a "current" Code-S quality player to get through (Flash).
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OUT WITH THE OLD IN WITH THE NEW
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On October 25 2012 23:13 Antyee wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 22:43 SupLilSon wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On October 25 2012 22:17 Antyee wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 22:07 ACrow wrote:On October 25 2012 21:53 HeroHenry wrote:On October 25 2012 21:31 Snowbear wrote:On October 25 2012 19:31 dragonsuper wrote:
Actually the difficulty in LOL is the sinergy of the team, not certainly the mechanics.
The problem here is the money goes where spectators are... and SC2 is boring so no spectators there anymore.
They could have supported BW more instead of forcing kespa to come to sc2.
Players cannot save a game that is boring by design.
Designers of Colossi ,ball of death ,clumping, anti micro spells , superdamage units, are really the sole responsible of this crysis.
The only viewers LoL gets are the people that play the game. I am sure a ton of people watch sc2 even tough they don't play it. I still have to meet the first non-LoL player that actually likes the game. I gave it a chance, a ton of my friends gave it a chance, and guess what? It's so damn boring. The teamplay can be nice to watch, but the individual skill is just not special. Let me explain why I think that fps games like counterstrike are much more suited to be an esportsgame: in counterstrike there are 2 things that can make you excited: 1) the teamplay (LoL has this, good), 2) the individual skill (aim, reaction time, movement, clutches) (LoL doesn't have this at all imo). When I watch sc2 I can be really amazed by a player's speed, genius moves and builds, insane unit control, sick macro, etc. When I watch counterstrike I can be really amazed by a player's aim and movement, and by teamplay. I don't have that feeling with LoL, and I am not alone. You talk about spectators leaving sc2? I don't agree at all. Look at recent tournament views, it's still insane. LoL has bigger viewers, I agree, but LoL is also a much more casual game. Isn't it logical that more people prefer casual games over the hard games? What do you want when you come home from a whole day of work? A game that requires sick speed, thinking and dedication or a game that requires only 10% of that? Look around you try to find someone with a competitive soul. You will notice that 80% of the people are 1) not competitive at all, 2) unable to take losses. Conclusion: LoL has more viewers because it has more players because it is much more casual and easier. Does this mean that sc2 is boring and dead? Crysis? Because a few players are leaving sc2? What about 100+ kespa players moving to sc2? What about flash already providing us sick games, only after a few months of playing? A lot of people don't play, but they watch doesn't really seem like all that. Starcraft 2 can't even break 50k veiwers... Even Dreamhack Bucharest (a rather minor event with close to no big names in attendance) broke 50k. We had WCS Europe a while ago, exceeding 120k. So maybe, just maybe, don't talk out of your ass? Why is it that there are so many sore, depressed ex-BWfanbois-turned-LoLfanbois here spouting nonsense all week? It's getting annoying. You should check these threads, and actually read the comments. Most of the comments are retarded MOBA-haters writing nonsense or bragging about how much more skill SC requires. And DH Bucharest didn't break 50k. At least people were posting a lot about how DH had less viewers than a single LoL player (Oddone with 20-25k). Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 22:14 SupLilSon wrote:
You do realize that lots of the LoL pros are players that failed miserably at going pro in HON/DOTA right? Chu was a great HON player but never could compete with the top of DOTA, in a month he became the best LoL player. Shame non of this is true. Chu hasn't done anything in LoL apart from grinding soloQ and failing in real competition with his team. You know why he isn't playing DOTA? Because he wouldn't even find himself on a real pro team. Truth sucks bro. He isn't in a pro team(never really been). He tried to make a team, it didn't work, he quit. Not much alter the team disbanded. He wasn't anywhere near pro. Could you just stop your stupid, non-existent argument?
He has a point.
Azubu, who were in the LoL Finals had a player who only played LoL for 6 months. Yes, he came from DotA (DotA Chaos in Korea) but you can clearly see "how hard" is to get into LoL professionally!
In DotA2, the currently professional teams/players are old school pro players from WC3 DotA and very few made it into the pro scene. No matter what you say, LoL professionals will never make into DotA professionally. I will even say more, the currently Na'Vi roster was about to switch to LoL back in the day (Dendi and Puppey played it and were very high Elo) but the others (ArtStyle, LoH and XBOCT) didn't want to.
Good luck to him in LoL. LoL will suffer the same fate that DotA had and currently has in the scene. Asian teams destroying everyone.
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On October 26 2012 02:37 duoform wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 23:13 Antyee wrote:On October 25 2012 22:43 SupLilSon wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On October 25 2012 22:17 Antyee wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 22:07 ACrow wrote:On October 25 2012 21:53 HeroHenry wrote:On October 25 2012 21:31 Snowbear wrote:On October 25 2012 19:31 dragonsuper wrote:
Actually the difficulty in LOL is the sinergy of the team, not certainly the mechanics.
The problem here is the money goes where spectators are... and SC2 is boring so no spectators there anymore.
They could have supported BW more instead of forcing kespa to come to sc2.
Players cannot save a game that is boring by design.
Designers of Colossi ,ball of death ,clumping, anti micro spells , superdamage units, are really the sole responsible of this crysis.
The only viewers LoL gets are the people that play the game. I am sure a ton of people watch sc2 even tough they don't play it. I still have to meet the first non-LoL player that actually likes the game. I gave it a chance, a ton of my friends gave it a chance, and guess what? It's so damn boring. The teamplay can be nice to watch, but the individual skill is just not special. Let me explain why I think that fps games like counterstrike are much more suited to be an esportsgame: in counterstrike there are 2 things that can make you excited: 1) the teamplay (LoL has this, good), 2) the individual skill (aim, reaction time, movement, clutches) (LoL doesn't have this at all imo). When I watch sc2 I can be really amazed by a player's speed, genius moves and builds, insane unit control, sick macro, etc. When I watch counterstrike I can be really amazed by a player's aim and movement, and by teamplay. I don't have that feeling with LoL, and I am not alone. You talk about spectators leaving sc2? I don't agree at all. Look at recent tournament views, it's still insane. LoL has bigger viewers, I agree, but LoL is also a much more casual game. Isn't it logical that more people prefer casual games over the hard games? What do you want when you come home from a whole day of work? A game that requires sick speed, thinking and dedication or a game that requires only 10% of that? Look around you try to find someone with a competitive soul. You will notice that 80% of the people are 1) not competitive at all, 2) unable to take losses. Conclusion: LoL has more viewers because it has more players because it is much more casual and easier. Does this mean that sc2 is boring and dead? Crysis? Because a few players are leaving sc2? What about 100+ kespa players moving to sc2? What about flash already providing us sick games, only after a few months of playing? A lot of people don't play, but they watch doesn't really seem like all that. Starcraft 2 can't even break 50k veiwers... Even Dreamhack Bucharest (a rather minor event with close to no big names in attendance) broke 50k. We had WCS Europe a while ago, exceeding 120k. So maybe, just maybe, don't talk out of your ass? Why is it that there are so many sore, depressed ex-BWfanbois-turned-LoLfanbois here spouting nonsense all week? It's getting annoying. You should check these threads, and actually read the comments. Most of the comments are retarded MOBA-haters writing nonsense or bragging about how much more skill SC requires. And DH Bucharest didn't break 50k. At least people were posting a lot about how DH had less viewers than a single LoL player (Oddone with 20-25k). Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 22:14 SupLilSon wrote:
You do realize that lots of the LoL pros are players that failed miserably at going pro in HON/DOTA right? Chu was a great HON player but never could compete with the top of DOTA, in a month he became the best LoL player. Shame non of this is true. Chu hasn't done anything in LoL apart from grinding soloQ and failing in real competition with his team. You know why he isn't playing DOTA? Because he wouldn't even find himself on a real pro team. Truth sucks bro. He isn't in a pro team(never really been). He tried to make a team, it didn't work, he quit. Not much alter the team disbanded. He wasn't anywhere near pro. Could you just stop your stupid, non-existent argument? He has a point. Azubu, who were in the LoL Finals had a player who only played LoL for 6 months. Yes, he came from DotA (DotA Chaos in Korea) but you can clearly see "how hard" is to get into LoL professionally! In DotA2, the currently professional teams/players are old school pro players from WC3 DotA and very few made it into the pro scene. No matter what you say, LoL professionals will never make into DotA professionally. I will even say more, the currently Na'Vi roster was about to switch to LoL back in the day (Dendi and Puppey played it and were very high Elo) but the others (ArtStyle, LoH and XBOCT) didn't want to. Good luck to him in LoL. LoL will suffer the same fate that DotA had and currently has in the scene. Asian teams destroying everyone.
You are missing the point.
He said that LoL is an easy game and LoL pros were terrible HoN or DotA players and that getting into competitive League is easy. Which is not true.
You say that someone with years of practice in the same genre can switch games in half a year.
That's quite different and true. But if, according to you, pro players even in Dota2 are oldschool players, how is League easier? That just doesn't make sense.
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On October 24 2012 18:17 jmbthirteen wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2012 18:14 smileface wrote:
"starcraft is doing fine... not going anywhere"
yeah... right... because players who have fallen off are switching to LoL?
Same thing happened to BW, crappy players and players past prime left for SC2. I don't really think SC2 is going anywhere, but it's an interesting comparison.
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This has more to do with sC's decline in sc2 than starcraft dying. People are really overrating him on this thread, he's been dealing with health issues and had not been himself in his last few matches. I really understand him wanting a fresh start and wish him the best of luck.
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On October 26 2012 02:58 revy wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2012 18:17 jmbthirteen wrote:On October 24 2012 18:14 smileface wrote:
"starcraft is doing fine... not going anywhere"
yeah... right... because players who have fallen off are switching to LoL? Same thing happened to BW, crappy players and players past prime left for SC2. I don't really think SC2 is going anywhere, but it's an interesting comparison.
BW was still fine when the like of IMMVP, MC and Nestea switched. Also MVP wasn't a crappy BW player, not the best but pretty good nonetheless. BW never was a "dying game", it only "died" because major BW tournament made the switch with the KESPA. Still, BW was going strong and even tho no real inovations were made, the games were still pretty good.
I don't know how people read that much into 4 players switching games. They feel like they will make more money in an other game, switch and try to make a living. That's all i get from all that.
When a top tier player in decent shape will switch to an other game saying "SC2 is a bad game, i can't enjoy it so i'm switching to [insert game's name] because it's a better game", i'll start worrying.
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I'm curious as to how these SC pros switching into LoL will do.
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I will miss the epic banshee micro. That's about it.
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hey if you suck at games that take skill why not try one that takes none?
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League of Legends has huge publicity from the Season 2 $2,000,000 prize pool.
SC2 is entering a bit of a lull as the community transitions from SC2 -> SC2 HotS. The SC2 community will boom when Heart of the Swarm is released.
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Hopefully he finds more success in League of Legends...it just seems like everyone is switching/retiring, but I guess it is what it is. I loved his tvz games vs nestea back in the day in Ro4...
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EPT
