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On October 22 2012 15:22 VanGarde wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 15:19 ddrddrddrddr wrote:On October 22 2012 15:00 VanGarde wrote:
I think you can discuss ui, cross server play, skill ceiling and skill floor, competitive play, view ability etc etc all day and in the end all of those things are only marginal influences. LoL is huge in South Korea and China, why? Because it is free to play. That is probably at the end of the day the only real reason why it has taken off so fast in cultures where most gamers still play at internet cafés. Starcraft 2 is designed for the western gaming community, LoL just happens to be more attuned to the Asian community. Can Blizzard get around this? Yeah probably but I am not 100% sure how. Yeah. Add Lan. Garena-like private servers will take care of the rest. Popularity will definitely be boosted, whether it's financially worth it is up to Blizzard. Appears they don't think it is anyways. No it won't be financially worth it unless they can get the money some other way, LoL is not free to play because riot love their gamers so much it is free to play because they earn more money by selling points for unlocking champions and by selling custom skins. The only way Blizzard could make sc2 free to play would be to find an equal way of earning money through micro transactions.
Okay, so they should work on micro transactions and find ways to make better returns off of esports like RIOT is doing. Blizzard seems to be having the same mind set as the music industry. Didn't we just have a thread on how pirates buy more music? Well if less people played, SC2 won't be as successful in the esports market. SC2 is not going the way of BW at the moment and unless they're procrastinating or basing future success off of faith, they should make some changes to ensure a successful future. At the moment I don't think Blizzard cares enough to make the effort anyways so it's all moot.
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By the way, do you see the difference between "If you are interested, heres what I do to support Starcraft. Those interested might try the same" and "You need to do this or you are killing esports!"?
The guys post was very reasonable, didn't make demands of people who don't care as much, and didn't blame any failures on people not caring enough. You are being stupid by conflating it with 'killing esports' posts.
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On October 22 2012 15:52 namori wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 15:48 VanGarde wrote:On October 22 2012 15:43 namori wrote:On October 22 2012 15:36 VanGarde wrote:On October 22 2012 15:33 namori wrote:On October 22 2012 08:57 VanGarde wrote:
So for those of you who have good connections, here is an actual piece of constructive advice for what you can do to promote our scene. There are so many high level sc2 pro's that stream. To some extent I think top LoL players might get more inflated stream numbers just because there are fewer really recognized players streaming at the same time. Regardless though there is something you can do and that I have done for some time to show support for players you like if you have a good connection.
When I am watching streams of sc2 I can obviously only really watch one stream, but there are usually 4-5 players that I wouldn't mind watching so to let my support show in viewer numbers I open up the stream I want to watch, but then I also open up all the other streams in separate tabs in my browser and set them all to 240p to have running in the background, mute all of them and then I watch the stream I was going to watch anyway. Obviously not something everyone might be able to do, but maybe you can run 2 streams even with a bad connection.
Atm I am watching Idra stream but I also have IPL, incontrol, suppy, tod and violet running in the background. I might not physically be able to watch all of them but I can make a point by giving them the view count still. You're an example of that blog about people being a slave "for the sake of esports" I don't know which blog you are talking about. If you are passionate about something you support it. I can't watch both nasl and ipl at the same time but I would watch them both if they were on at different times. It does not cost me anything to have the other stream on muted in the background while watching one. It costs me two clicks of the mouse and that is all the time it costs me. I can't say I feel like a slave, if that is the case I guess everyone that puts anything into something they care about it are slaves to the same thing. I really don't see the problem here. http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=334009Yep, you're a prime example I am an example of someone who is passionate about something I enjoy. Apparently you have a problem with this? I suppose everyone in the world who cares about anything should just stop giving a fuck because they are all slaves to their interests? The fact that whomever wrote that blog is not interested in e-sports is fine with me, nor have I ever asked anyone who does not share my passion to care. You have every right to not give a fuck, so what is it to you? Are you just offended by people who care about things? You're being so desperate on making viewer counts for sc2, for what? to beat LoL? or maybe I just don't know what passionate really means. I don't know ┐('～`；)┌
What? Stop projecting whatever person you have in your mind. Where did I say that I care about beating LoL? In fact not only am I one of those who think sc2 is just fine, I also think that it is great that LoL is growing, it is expanding the industry and will serve Starcraft 2 in the long run.
But yeah I do find it meaningful to give views to the tournaments I enjoy and the player streams I enjoy. For anything that is not ppv, views is the currency in this industry. If there are 10 players streaming at the same time and 2 tournaments running I can only realistically watch one. But I want to support them all equally because I could watch any one of them. I just have to choose one, so I then choose to support the other streams for no cost to myself. There is no desperation in the slightest. Go away and be angry at the world somewhere else.
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Maybe I just like the game itself because honestly I couldn't care less about the "scene" like the game, so I watch vids and streams for the good games and not the pros and the scene
my bad.
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On October 22 2012 15:58 namori wrote:
Maybe I just like the game itself because honestly I couldn't care less about the "scene" like the game, so I watch vids and streams for the good games and not the pros and the scene
my bad.
Again, that is fine for you. Did anyone say that you were wrong to do so? Grow up.
User was warned for this post
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On October 22 2012 16:02 zefreak wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 15:58 namori wrote:
Maybe I just like the game itself because honestly I couldn't care less about the "scene" like the game, so I watch vids and streams for the good games and not the pros and the scene
my bad. Again, that is fine for you. Did anyone say that you were wrong to do so? Grow up.
I said my bad, geez what the hell this community is awful.
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On October 22 2012 16:04 namori wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 16:02 zefreak wrote:On October 22 2012 15:58 namori wrote:
Maybe I just like the game itself because honestly I couldn't care less about the "scene" like the game, so I watch vids and streams for the good games and not the pros and the scene
my bad. Again, that is fine for you. Did anyone say that you were wrong to do so? Grow up. I said my bad, geez what the hell this community is awful.
Irony: kind of like iron.
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Yeah there is lot of things Blizzard should fix, but trying to fight on popularity with LOL/DOTA2 is prety futile in my eyes. Its prety much same as trying to make chess more popular than soccer/hockey. One thing i fear is that blizzard will try to do that, because of all these posts about it.
If esports is not huge enough for both LOL/DOTA2 and SC2 then its just not its time. So yeah blizzard should fix the UI(which they seem to be doing) including arcade THE CASUAL in sc2 and hoping people are invested enought to care and make those CASUAL maps.
One thing people just don't seem unterstand in my opinion is that you can't assume HOTS to magicaly make WOL something different from what it is. In my opinion its suposed to expand from what we alredy have, not to change it compelitely.
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no one cares whether LOL is easier than SC2. the point is that SC2 is stale as hell to play. it's linear. tedious. boring. THAT is why people are moving from SC2 to LOL. it has nothing to do with the difficulty.
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On October 22 2012 17:00 TheDraken wrote:
no one cares whether LOL is easier than SC2. the point is that SC2 is stale as hell to play. it's linear. tedious. boring. THAT is why people are moving from SC2 to LOL. it has nothing to do with the difficulty.
it has almost everything to do with difficulty... why do you think call of duty is so popular? its easy to pick up and play. sc2 is very unforgiving where even the slightest mis micro at any point in the game can cost you. also, in lol dota hon you can always blame your allies for whatever reason, while in sc2 its always your fault when you lose. oh yeah and its fucking free to play.
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I dont understand how LoL can be fun for the casual player. Too many heroes, countless abilities to learn and items. From my own casual play of LoL ~100 games, the people I played with (me included) had no idea what they were up agains (what the enemy could do). How is that any fun at all? The game is really boring if you just randomly die to stuff you didnt know about. And it is so much to learn. That dont seem casual at all. After my 100 games I decided that LoL wasnt worth it to learn.
DOTA2 is the same deal but it might be worth learning so im gonna give it a try since I have my key now (though I wish there was less of everything). But theres alot of studying to do before the game will start being any fun at all.
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On October 22 2012 17:29 dpurple wrote:
I dont understand how LoL can be fun for the casual player. Too many heroes, countless abilities to learn and items. From my own casual play of LoL ~100 games, the people I played with (me included) had no idea what they were up agains (what the enemy could do). How is that any fun at all? The game is really boring if you just randomly die to stuff you didnt know about. And it is so much to learn. That dont seem casual at all. After my 100 games I decided that LoL wasnt worth it to learn.
DOTA2 is the same deal but it might be worth learning so im gonna give it a try since I have my key now (though I wish there was less of everything). But theres alot of studying to do before the game will start being any fun at all.
If you have even as low as 2 friends that you can consistently play with, then games like LoL and Dota becomes infinitely more enticing to play than grinding ladder on starcraft. You don't need to know what every hero does and what every item does and what build/items should each hero go for in the beginning. You just play with bunch of friends and go from there. Yes it will take hundred of games to completely get used to every heroes, but it's not like you can learn all the builds for all 3 races for starcraft in short period of time either.
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On October 22 2012 17:29 dpurple wrote:
I dont understand how LoL can be fun for the casual player. Too many heroes, countless abilities to learn and items. From my own casual play of LoL ~100 games, the people I played with (me included) had no idea what they were up agains (what the enemy could do). How is that any fun at all? The game is really boring if you just randomly die to stuff you didnt know about. And it is so much to learn. That dont seem casual at all. After my 100 games I decided that LoL wasnt worth it to learn.
DOTA2 is the same deal but it might be worth learning so im gonna give it a try since I have my key now (though I wish there was less of everything). But theres alot of studying to do before the game will start being any fun at all.
You can start doing okay right away if you aren't facing people who have played more than 1000 games. Until you get some builds down, you won't understand why the fuck you just lost or won in SC2 and you can easily come to the conclusion that the game is just 'mass up overpowered units and A-move' (had RTS noob friends claim this).
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On October 22 2012 16:18 SacredCoconut wrote:
Yeah there is lot of things Blizzard should fix, but trying to fight on popularity with LOL/DOTA2 is prety futile in my eyes. Its prety much same as trying to make chess more popular than soccer/hockey. One thing i fear is that blizzard will try to do that, because of all these posts about it.
If esports is not huge enough for both LOL/DOTA2 and SC2 then its just not its time. So yeah blizzard should fix the UI(which they seem to be doing) including arcade THE CASUAL in sc2 and hoping people are invested enought to care and make those CASUAL maps.
One thing people just don't seem unterstand in my opinion is that you can't assume HOTS to magicaly make WOL something different from what it is. In my opinion its suposed to expand from what we alredy have, not to change it compelitely.
Chess is more popular than hockey worldwide.
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Pls change this Blizzard:
- Reaver for colossus
- Lurker for Swarm host
- Defiler for Infestor
- Sc1 Carrier-Micro-Mechanics back
- Speed upgrade for Hydras should need only Lair not Hive
- Remove 250mm Cannons of Thors
- Remove Reaper from Terran and move it to Protoss in changed look
- Spore Crawler need Evolution Chamber again
Good Job Blizzard for done things and announcements:
- New Hots Interface
- Warhound removed
- Widow Mine
- Baneling
- Ultra-Charge
- Stalker and Blink
- Warp in Mechanic of Protoss and Warp Prism
- Hallucination of Sentry without Tech
- Multiplayer resume from replay
- Multiplayer replay viewing
- Unranked matchmaking
- Clan/group system
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On October 22 2012 17:29 dpurple wrote:
I dont understand how LoL can be fun for the casual player. Too many heroes, countless abilities to learn and items. From my own casual play of LoL ~100 games, the people I played with (me included) had no idea what they were up agains (what the enemy could do). How is that any fun at all? The game is really boring if you just randomly die to stuff you didnt know about. And it is so much to learn. That dont seem casual at all. After my 100 games I decided that LoL wasnt worth it to learn.
DOTA2 is the same deal but it might be worth learning so im gonna give it a try since I have my key now (though I wish there was less of everything). But theres alot of studying to do before the game will start being any fun at all.
I thought I had ladder anxiety. It turns out that I just burn out on ladder quickly. I think that ladder is actually dang tiring. I'm a masters player, and most of my friends are lower ranked. Some of them probably burn out even faster than me.
I thought that if the information came slow, and I treated this as if I had imbibed cannabis and was just....chewing LoL slowly, I may enjoy it.
I don't know, SC2 is just tiring and draining. It leaves me wanting to drop and go to sleep. After a day of work/school it always tired me out. I could never be at 100%. I love the game, it just requires a lot of downtime to keep it fresh.
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To me the sc2 vs lol discussions are almost exactly the same as the bw vs sc2 discussions. If the outcome is the same, sc2 will die. A big difference is of course that blizzard sides with sc2.
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On October 22 2012 17:29 dpurple wrote:
I dont understand how LoL can be fun for the casual player. Too many heroes, countless abilities to learn and items. From my own casual play of LoL ~100 games, the people I played with (me included) had no idea what they were up agains (what the enemy could do). How is that any fun at all? The game is really boring if you just randomly die to stuff you didnt know about. And it is so much to learn. That dont seem casual at all. After my 100 games I decided that LoL wasnt worth it to learn.
.
Maybe its your personal preference. A game can't be boring when 32 m people playing it.
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I don't get why people look up to LoL as the pinacle of esports atm. It's a free to play game that you can play with friends where the company that makes the game pushed huge amount of money into esports. It's the biggest bubble we have in esports atm. It's not that sc2 can't grow but people should realize that we are at a point where you can't really have a much bigger sustainable scene without something major happening. People seem to forget the past esports bubbles we've had and the games in question is quite laughable when you look back at them. As long as blizzard doesn't screw up Hots completely SC2 will be around well after Destiny's prophecies even if it may not live up to the absurd dreams of sc2 "going mainstream."
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/UYHyz.jpg)
