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Glad to see this whole thing come out in the open.. i havnt followed the arguing at all really, but since i heard the MMA shit hit the fan, i knew it was just the tip of a huge iceberg. Now who is right and wrong is hard to know but alteast the whole thing is up for disscution now. In the end, what happned to the players is what matters and i hope everyone of them gets the best out of this. A thing to remember aswell is that most of these players are kids and regardless how good players they are, they will still act and behave like kids. I doubt people who have behaved like they have, were doing it just for the sake of destroying someones lifework,job or intresst. My points might not come out like they should since my english isnt the best so if you read something and go like "what the fuck are you sayin", bare in mind that it might just be me forming my sentences badly.
Bottomline, Sad to see one of the most famous Team Dissband, Best of luck t oall the players in their new teams (future and present) and i hope some conclution will come out of this.
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It's all just a conspiracy right? LOL.
You might want to read the thread. You know, learning that so far most of what Jessica said checks out, while Alicia etc were caught bluntly lying. Would make your tirade look less stupid.
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On October 18 2012 08:11 achan1058 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2012 08:11 farnham wrote:On October 18 2012 08:08 achan1058 wrote:On October 18 2012 08:07 farnham wrote:On October 18 2012 08:05 achan1058 wrote:On October 18 2012 08:02 farnham wrote:On October 18 2012 07:51 markrevival wrote:
Having had a day to digest this, I think if/when everyone stops freaking out, you'll be at peace with the reality that this is an organic part of the growth of eSports, or any scene for that matter. There were mistakes made and this didn't have to happen. Nevertheless, it's not the end of the world, or of Korean SC2, and it makes the rest of the SC2 scene no less amazing. StarCraft II has come so far, and set backs like this are a natural part of things.
The biggest tragedy is losing Min, Puzzle, and CoCa to LoL. They were true talents that, if on another team, could have been Code S round of 16 material. They still could be if they don't really switch to LoL. Puzzle and CoCa in particularly were already Code S material without a doubt.
There are a lot of teams out there and a lot of players. Things will fall into place, I'm sure of it. SlayerS was a bad apple, its time to let it decompose and bring new life to the rest of the StarCraft II ecosystem. No esf and coach won is the bad apple not slayers SlayerS is definitely a bad apple, regardless of whether eSF is clean or not. Esf themselves admitted they blacklisted slayers and please explain why slayers is a bad apple prior dec 2011 Bad management, even if you wish to deny it. Yes, eSF might well have played a role, but that has nothing to do with coach J. So they made one mistake by hiring a shady guy while establishing the most successful team of 2011 There are companies that are successful at the start, then failed afterwards, even if management did not change. (Think RIM.)
Yes but the dwindling results and bad atmosphere coincidences with the embargo
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On October 18 2012 08:09 farnham wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2012 08:07 zestzorb wrote:On October 18 2012 07:56 m4inbrain wrote:On October 18 2012 07:54 zestzorb wrote:On October 18 2012 07:52 m4inbrain wrote:On October 18 2012 07:51 zestzorb wrote:On October 18 2012 07:47 farnham wrote:On October 18 2012 07:44 Tachion wrote:On October 18 2012 07:37 farnham wrote:On October 18 2012 07:33 Tachion wrote:
[quote]
details please! Basically alicia claimed that she didnt even congratulate her after his second place finishes... In fact she did on twitter and also personally.. If you look at the tweets she sent alicia is the one ignoring her Also one of alicias recent successes was the Nasl 3 second place finish.. Thats the tournament she let him participate despite the boycott (and despite. Oach wons warnings).. So alicia says she doesn't care about individual leagues, yet she sent him to the one that started the whole embargo mess ;p but oh wait, he didn't get a ride to the airport  (((((( pooorrrrr alicia. Also if you look at the tweets she wrote alicia like every hour if he is eating well and such If the things you said are true then I'm very disappointed in Alicia Just check them yourself? Just so you know I couldn't read Korean. If Jessica tweets in English then my apologies, I would take your words for granted. Me neither, but chrome-translator does kind of a good job, more or less. In the context, you can get the grasp. I actually dont know the language which these are in, and i did not mean to be offensive. Just check for yourself if you doubt.  I have some doubts because farnham's quite leaned towards Jessica's side from the start. Can I trust you farnham? Hey I think she is one of the most passionate persons in the industry and her story makes sense while alicias, hirais and coach wons versions contradict themselves or are just blunt lies
I wholeheartedly agree with you that she is the most passionate, no doubt Her story is kinda through rosy-tinted glass though. And I don't understand Korean so I don't have the complete picture of the situation like you.
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On October 18 2012 08:09 CosmicSpiral wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2012 08:06 bucckevin wrote:On October 18 2012 01:57 Waxangel wrote:
Neat, here's another version
NASL Deposits
NASL Season One was announced, and players such as Boxer were preparing to participate. At that time, Startale Head coach Won Jong Wook [Note: Present eSF chair]contacted us saying that NASL 'is not offering flights to Korean players who qualify' and that 'you we cannot participate in foreign tournaments under these conditions,' and 'it would be good if boycotted the tournament.' However, we had already finished our preparations (our sponsor had offered flights and lodging), and thus we had to participate.
It turned out that the other teams participated as well, and PuMa [then on TSL] won the tournament.
When NASL Season 2 began, there was another movement for a boycott, and SlayerS was asked to join. We decided to join the boycott, thinking that we could get a good result regarding the NASL deposit policy which we thought was unfair.
Mr. Won promised that S2con and GomTV would take care of it and get what was needed, and we did not participate in NASL Season 2. However, nothing was gained. I asked Mr. Won whether they tried to talk to NASL at all, to show me the e-mails that went back and forth, but he there wasn't anything of the sort.
Honestly, I do admit that there was some need for NASL to have a deposit policy. They hold their games over a long period of time, and players who are confirmed to miss out on the live finals sometimes decide to not show up for their games and give up. So I did understand the need to fine players for that kind of behavior.
When NASL Season 3 started, we were put in a dilemma again. We boycotted season two, but didn't gain anything, so I told our players to participate, and paid the deposits.
After eight SlayerS players made it through the preliminaries, I got a call from [Team MVP] Head Coach Choi Yoon Sang. His main point was that he was disappointed in us, and that FXO had participated in the preliminaries as well, only to give up participation. I was told to make our eight players give up their spots.
I explained that Mr. Won told me he would show me results, but as there had been none, there was no reason for us to keep boycotting. I also requested that he tell the other head coaches who might be confused, but strangely that word didn’t get around.
Mr. Won could have told the other teams of SlayerS' position, but instead the other teams continued to misunderstand. When I asked him why he didn't tell the other members of S2con, he said he didn't recall what we talked about during the Season 2 boycott. At that time, I could only think those running S2con were very irresponsible.
Because SlayerS competed in NASL, the S2con players were told to blacklist SlayerS players and not help them practice. It wasn't just a ban from practice, they were told to not even chat with them on the ladder.
Some players who were very friendly with our players used their alternate accounts to help them. When I met Mr. Won in person and asked him what was going on, he said 'it's cheap, but we plan to penalize SlayerS in at least this way.'
I complained to Mr.Won, taking player relationships into consideration, and because it was absurd that we were blacklisted for something that wasn't our fault. Mr.Won replied that these problems existed because we were off on our own, not helping them out or joining their organization.
Though I made many complaints, there was no solution to the problem where our players were refused practice, and it was tough for our players. It reached a point where at a tournament in the USA, I told Mr. Won that 'I don't want my players to suffer because of me. I'll disband the team, and you can take our players,' and that 'I'll take proper responsibility for the damages done to our sponsors by disbanding.'
Mr. Won replied that they would have a meeting, and he'd tell me the results. Only then did we get an e-mail saying that the practice-ban had been lifted. I don't know how they thought they could even have gone ahead with such a ban in the first place.
However, when I checked with our players, they said that the practice-ban was only lifted in word, and that it was actually still in place. In reality, S2con players were told to not practice with us, according to an ex-oGs player now on a foreign team.
Indeed, it was because of this issue that our relationship with S2con became irreparable distant. SlayerS and the other teams became like water and oil. When the Blizzard/KeSPA/SC2 vision conference was announced [Note: At the time, S2Con had been disbanded for some time, and there was no team organization for GSL teams], we received a request to join on so they could belatedly form the eSports federation.
I was at a loss for words, that they would arbitrarily penalize us, then ask us to join when they found they needed Boxer on their side. There was no end to my disappointment when they started to go on about being in this business together. Is that why they blacklisted our players from practicing? They were an organization with no semblance of conscience, and of course I turned down joining.
They never requested any reconciliation. When they were continuing to ostracize SlayerS and cutting us out of practice, Mr.Won would always tell me there was no such practice-ban whenever I contacted him. However, players say that the head coaches ordered them not to practice with our players, so I don't know what is the truth. It's laughable that players would accept such orders so easily.
At the same time, they selfishly asked our players to help them practice. You might have seen them thank our players in interviews on occasion.
Even Sleep, who isn't part of SlayerS but staying at our team house, received the same disadvantages, just because he was staying at our house. Even now, this pratice-ban is still going on. If Mr.Won can confidently say that the ban was lifted, and what I'm saying is false, then he's welcome to come out officially.
If you keep in mind that there's an ex-eSF player on SlayerS right now, then you won't be able to deny it. If you want a three way talk, I can tell you who informed us. This ex-oGs player is MC right? He started practicing with MMA after he left oGs. Who the hell knows? Almost every ex-oGs player (MC, Supernova, Inca, TOP, Luvsic, etc.) is on a foreign team now.
It's probably MC tho. He was the only one to come out and thanks as SlayerS play in over a year. I know this because I read player interviews and would always look to see if a slayerS player helped them . I think someone else might have thanked puzzle for practice. Either way, the blacklisting part of the story is true, She has an ex-ESF player Genius to back up her story,
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On October 18 2012 08:11 RenSC2 wrote:
Wow, even from Jessica's letter, I can see a whole cluster-fuck of mismanagement.
1) You sent an employee of 2 months to go alone and negotiate the biggest sponsorship deals? WTF! That's your lifeblood. To only send one guy and to have that one guy be new to your organization is one of the dumbest things you can do. Does EG hire a guy and then have him negotiate with sponsors within the first 2 months? Fuck no. They send Scoots (a proven veteran) and I wouldn't be shocked if Alex Garfield also went along for the bigger deals. For any of these Slayers sponsorship deals, at a minimum, Jessica or Boxer should have gone. In any big deal, both should have gone and if they trusted J, then have him go along to learn. What they did was terrible terrible damage to their own organization.
2) You can't pick up your own player from the airport or have one of your coaches go with your player to the studio for an important match? Is it really that hard to do some basic time management to take care of your players? Picking up players from the airport: that's what a 2 month manager, like J, is for. If not him, are you telling me that you can't hire a fan to drive Alicia home from the airport? And really, shouldn't the coach be at any Studio match? He's there to coach, right? You can say that Alicia is being petty, but that's still shitty management.
3) Complaining about getting blacklisted by other teams. It has been customary for Korean teams to help each other, but it is not their job. It is their job to beat you. There's a ladder and there's plenty of members within Slayers. There are also a whole bunch of amateurs who'd love to help out if you look for them. You shouldn't need the other teams to help you practice. I've coached plenty of youth hockey and I'd say my players are more likely to get into a fight than a helpful conversation about hockey if they ever meet opponents from an opposing team off the ice. It's nice when you can get some friendly rivals and learn from them, but you can't rely on it as a manager/coach.
4) You internally blacklist MMA because he's a "cancer". Angry about being blacklisted by other teams, but you have no problem blacklisting your own players from their primary source of practice/friendship? WTF. Can it really get any stupider than that? Rather than developing a good relationship with these players and between the players, the Slayers management continually tries to drive the players apart and away. You can see that in how they dealt with Crank and MMA by their own admission. They even "made a path" for Clide because he was hanging out with MMA. That path: end his career as a player. Awesome path Jessica.
It's amazing how it seems like every established member of Slayers turned against Jessica or just wanted out like Taeja (he so lazy!!! Nice parting shot on a guy who caused you no problems Jessica). It's all just a conspiracy right? LOL.
Damn, Jessica's management was the blue flame to the drone line that was Slayers.
Again, don't forget that Boxer was there. It's not like Jessica handle everything, so it's kinda unfair to put all the blame on her.
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On October 18 2012 08:06 bucckevin wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2012 01:57 Waxangel wrote:
Neat, here's another version
NASL Deposits
NASL Season One was announced, and players such as Boxer were preparing to participate. At that time, Startale Head coach Won Jong Wook [Note: Present eSF chair]contacted us saying that NASL 'is not offering flights to Korean players who qualify' and that 'you we cannot participate in foreign tournaments under these conditions,' and 'it would be good if boycotted the tournament.' However, we had already finished our preparations (our sponsor had offered flights and lodging), and thus we had to participate.
It turned out that the other teams participated as well, and PuMa [then on TSL] won the tournament.
When NASL Season 2 began, there was another movement for a boycott, and SlayerS was asked to join. We decided to join the boycott, thinking that we could get a good result regarding the NASL deposit policy which we thought was unfair.
Mr. Won promised that S2con and GomTV would take care of it and get what was needed, and we did not participate in NASL Season 2. However, nothing was gained. I asked Mr. Won whether they tried to talk to NASL at all, to show me the e-mails that went back and forth, but he there wasn't anything of the sort.
Honestly, I do admit that there was some need for NASL to have a deposit policy. They hold their games over a long period of time, and players who are confirmed to miss out on the live finals sometimes decide to not show up for their games and give up. So I did understand the need to fine players for that kind of behavior.
When NASL Season 3 started, we were put in a dilemma again. We boycotted season two, but didn't gain anything, so I told our players to participate, and paid the deposits.
After eight SlayerS players made it through the preliminaries, I got a call from [Team MVP] Head Coach Choi Yoon Sang. His main point was that he was disappointed in us, and that FXO had participated in the preliminaries as well, only to give up participation. I was told to make our eight players give up their spots.
I explained that Mr. Won told me he would show me results, but as there had been none, there was no reason for us to keep boycotting. I also requested that he tell the other head coaches who might be confused, but strangely that word didn’t get around.
Mr. Won could have told the other teams of SlayerS' position, but instead the other teams continued to misunderstand. When I asked him why he didn't tell the other members of S2con, he said he didn't recall what we talked about during the Season 2 boycott. At that time, I could only think those running S2con were very irresponsible.
Because SlayerS competed in NASL, the S2con players were told to blacklist SlayerS players and not help them practice. It wasn't just a ban from practice, they were told to not even chat with them on the ladder.
Some players who were very friendly with our players used their alternate accounts to help them. When I met Mr. Won in person and asked him what was going on, he said 'it's cheap, but we plan to penalize SlayerS in at least this way.'
I complained to Mr.Won, taking player relationships into consideration, and because it was absurd that we were blacklisted for something that wasn't our fault. Mr.Won replied that these problems existed because we were off on our own, not helping them out or joining their organization.
Though I made many complaints, there was no solution to the problem where our players were refused practice, and it was tough for our players. It reached a point where at a tournament in the USA, I told Mr. Won that 'I don't want my players to suffer because of me. I'll disband the team, and you can take our players,' and that 'I'll take proper responsibility for the damages done to our sponsors by disbanding.'
Mr. Won replied that they would have a meeting, and he'd tell me the results. Only then did we get an e-mail saying that the practice-ban had been lifted. I don't know how they thought they could even have gone ahead with such a ban in the first place.
However, when I checked with our players, they said that the practice-ban was only lifted in word, and that it was actually still in place. In reality, S2con players were told to not practice with us, according to an ex-oGs player now on a foreign team.
Indeed, it was because of this issue that our relationship with S2con became irreparable distant. SlayerS and the other teams became like water and oil. When the Blizzard/KeSPA/SC2 vision conference was announced [Note: At the time, S2Con had been disbanded for some time, and there was no team organization for GSL teams], we received a request to join on so they could belatedly form the eSports federation.
I was at a loss for words, that they would arbitrarily penalize us, then ask us to join when they found they needed Boxer on their side. There was no end to my disappointment when they started to go on about being in this business together. Is that why they blacklisted our players from practicing? They were an organization with no semblance of conscience, and of course I turned down joining.
They never requested any reconciliation. When they were continuing to ostracize SlayerS and cutting us out of practice, Mr.Won would always tell me there was no such practice-ban whenever I contacted him. However, players say that the head coaches ordered them not to practice with our players, so I don't know what is the truth. It's laughable that players would accept such orders so easily.
At the same time, they selfishly asked our players to help them practice. You might have seen them thank our players in interviews on occasion.
Even Sleep, who isn't part of SlayerS but staying at our team house, received the same disadvantages, just because he was staying at our house. Even now, this pratice-ban is still going on. If Mr.Won can confidently say that the ban was lifted, and what I'm saying is false, then he's welcome to come out officially.
If you keep in mind that there's an ex-eSF player on SlayerS right now, then you won't be able to deny it. If you want a three way talk, I can tell you who informed us. This ex-oGs player is MC right? He started practicing with MMA after he left oGs.
Could be Supernova too?
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On October 18 2012 08:13 m4inbrain wrote:You might want to read the thread. You know, learning that so far most of what Jessica said checks out, while Alicia etc were caught bluntly lying. Would make your tirade look less stupid.
Im willing to except everything Jessica said as true. But that doesnt take away the fact that I also believe that most of those issues happend because of her.
How does a 2 month old coach manage to poach away your top player. Because his relation with Jessica is already so bad he is willing to accept anything else.
Why do all teams gang up on Slayers. It is them being petty or does it have to do with Jessicas personality going against them?
Why does a player like Alicia feel left alone by her.
Why were people sneaking out to go play LoL.
Yes everything said might be correct but to me they all point to a common cause. Jessicas personality and attitude.
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On October 18 2012 08:13 m4inbrain wrote:You might want to read the thread. You know, learning that so far most of what Jessica said checks out, while Alicia etc were caught bluntly lying. Would make your tirade look less stupid.
There's over 90 pages to read.... Can't read that much!
It would be better if there's a summary and links in the OP.
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United Kingdom1666 Posts
I mainly feel bad for Boxer in all this. He knows what a tough practice environment really is, and what it is to work at being the best in adverse conditions... He went into this with the best intentions, and it's ended pretty horribly. Must be a real blow.
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What esf is saying is that slayers didnt join them so they wanted to keep em in line and thats why they set up a brief (which is over 10month) practice ban. They say that its not bad conduct since they had a reason. They say slayers had no cooperative spirit since they didnt join them
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It's so sad that Coca is going to LoL, he was such an inspiring player
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This is indeed a sad day for ESports :\
Puzzle and Coca were two of my favourite players too. >.<
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Fenrax
United States5018 Posts
I feel bad for Jessica now... this shows so much immaturity by Alicia. So not getting a free ride from back your PAID FLIGHT was only part of the problem... yeah, with this tragedy only being part of the problem I don't know if I can stand hearing the rest of his tragic fate. Maybe there wasn't even a red carpet when he came back, I don't even want to imagine.
And Jessica insists that the players they pay play to their best in the team league oh my gosh, that is too much.
Stupid immature spoiled brat.
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On October 18 2012 08:18 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2012 08:13 m4inbrain wrote: It's all just a conspiracy right? LOL. You might want to read the thread. You know, learning that so far most of what Jessica said checks out, while Alicia etc were caught bluntly lying. Would make your tirade look less stupid. Im willing to except everything Jessica said as true. But that doesnt take away the fact that I also believe that most of those issues happend because of her. How does a 2 month old coach manage to poach away your top player. Because his relation with Jessica is already so bad he is willing to accept anything else. Why do all teams gang up on Slayers. It is them being petty or does it have to do with Jessicas personality going against them? Why does a player like Alicia feel left alone by her. Why were people sneaking out to go play LoL. Yes everything said might be correct but to me they all point to a common cause. Jessicas personality and attitude.
I cannot answer all questions, but the one about Alicia is quite obvious. Hes a bullshitter, who actually even lied in an interview about that issue as was pointed out in this thread (Jessica tweeting him and stuff). He ignored her, not the other way around. Why did he do that? Dont know, and dont care. I would stop caring about someone if he would not appreciate it as well.
You dont need to accept everything she said. Just what has been "proven" here. You can hate or adore her, does not matter, but so many guys here seemingly dont even know what respect is. Yeah, maybe she screwed up as a manager. But for sure she is not the reason that team disbanded.
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On October 18 2012 08:18 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2012 08:13 m4inbrain wrote: It's all just a conspiracy right? LOL. You might want to read the thread. You know, learning that so far most of what Jessica said checks out, while Alicia etc were caught bluntly lying. Would make your tirade look less stupid. Im willing to except everything Jessica said as true. But that doesnt take away the fact that I also believe that most of those issues happend because of her. How does a 2 month old coach manage to poach away your top player. Because his relation with Jessica is already so bad he is willing to accept anything else. Why do all teams gang up on Slayers. It is them being petty or does it have to do with Jessicas personality going against them? Why does a player like Alicia feel left alone by her. Why were people sneaking out to go play LoL. Yes everything said might be correct but to me they all point to a common cause. Jessicas personality and attitude.
Wow.. Just wow..
Esf did what they did because they wanted slayers on esf from the beginning. Boxer means money,
Esf ban made slayers players practice much harder and thats why people like mr. J got their chance to lure mma.
Alicia just lied about being left alone. Thats alredy proven
People are playing lol because lol is bigger than sc2 in korea
You people need to stop this jessica is fault for everything mentality
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Really a sad day for esports! in general 
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Saw it coming, but it's still a dark day for esports.
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On October 18 2012 08:18 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2012 08:13 m4inbrain wrote: It's all just a conspiracy right? LOL. You might want to read the thread. You know, learning that so far most of what Jessica said checks out, while Alicia etc were caught bluntly lying. Would make your tirade look less stupid. Im willing to except everything Jessica said as true. But that doesnt take away the fact that I also believe that most of those issues happend because of her. How does a 2 month old coach manage to poach away your top player. Because his relation with Jessica is already so bad he is willing to accept anything else. Why do all teams gang up on Slayers. It is them being petty or does it have to do with Jessicas personality going against them? Why does a player like Alicia feel left alone by her. Why were people sneaking out to go play LoL. Yes everything said might be correct but to me they all point to a common cause. Jessicas personality and attitude.
How does a 2 month old coach manage to poach away your top player. Because his relation with Jessica is already so bad he is willing to accept anything else.
- Yes I think that played a part. But Mr J might be an extraordinarily suave conman.
Why do all teams gang up on Slayers. It is them being petty or does it have to do with Jessicas personality going against them?
- Very likely due to Jessica's personality
Why does a player like Alicia feel left alone by her.
- From his interview and Jessica's twitter, it seems that he's just a spoiled brat.
Why were people sneaking out to go play LoL.
- Lack of discipline and enforcement.
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On October 18 2012 08:23 farnham wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2012 08:18 Gorsameth wrote:On October 18 2012 08:13 m4inbrain wrote: It's all just a conspiracy right? LOL. You might want to read the thread. You know, learning that so far most of what Jessica said checks out, while Alicia etc were caught bluntly lying. Would make your tirade look less stupid. Im willing to except everything Jessica said as true. But that doesnt take away the fact that I also believe that most of those issues happend because of her. How does a 2 month old coach manage to poach away your top player. Because his relation with Jessica is already so bad he is willing to accept anything else. Why do all teams gang up on Slayers. It is them being petty or does it have to do with Jessicas personality going against them? Why does a player like Alicia feel left alone by her. Why were people sneaking out to go play LoL. Yes everything said might be correct but to me they all point to a common cause. Jessicas personality and attitude. Wow.. Just wow.. Esf did what they did because they wanted slayers on esf from the beginning. Boxer means money, Esf ban made slayers players practice much harder and thats why people like mr. J got their chance to lure mma. Alicia just lied about being left alone. Thats alredy proven People are playing lol because lol is bigger than sc2 in korea You people need to stop this jessica is fault for everything mentality
Pretty much that.
Also, its fun to me that Jessica is called "Drama-Queen" by the same community that fuckin went to email sponsors because someone said "Nigger" (you know, the N-Word, for these ppl who cant bare it). Thats so hypocritical, i cant even begin to describe how stupid everyone looks that cries about her drama.
Yeah, she creates alot of drama. She even fuels it sometimes. But TL loves it, just stop being hypocritical.
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EPT
