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Slayers to disband - Page 79

Forum Index > SC2 General
4170 CommentsPost a Reply
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Bashing of any sort will result in temp bans.
Wafflelisk
Profile Joined October 2011
Canada1061 Posts
October 17 2012 20:15 GMT
#1561
Uhm.. I just woke up.. I know it's not April.. but is it April? April is dot season.
Waffles > Pancakes
ggrrg
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
Bulgaria2716 Posts
October 17 2012 20:15 GMT
#1562
On October 18 2012 05:07 jmbthirteen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 18 2012 05:06 farnham wrote:
On October 18 2012 05:00 nvs. wrote:
Who would have thought the drama queen couldn't manage a professional team?

Yes but she was right

Startale confirms that slayers players were not allowed to be practiced with

http://www.fomos.kr/board/board.php?mode=read&keyno=127949&db=issue&cate=001&page=1&field=&kwrd=

except more went wrong that the whole esf not letting them practice together....


You do realize that the main issues here are ESF ostracizing slayers' players and J fucking up the team internally? Basically all the tension inside the team, the loss of motivation and trust stem from those two issues.
jmbthirteen
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States10734 Posts
October 17 2012 20:15 GMT
#1563
On October 18 2012 05:10 Fionn wrote:
I wrote this at the start of the year:

+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]

The Rise of SlayerS and MMA


If you are just getting into Starcraft 2 and look at SlayerS now, I'm sure you must think, 'Wow, these guys are amazing! I bet they've been awesome forever!' To tell you the truth, dear newbie to the world of eSports, you would be dead wrong. When Slayers was first created, there was a lot of hype. Boxer was creating a team, freaking Boxer, the legend of all legends, the Emperor himself, and he was going to hand pick his own disciples to take over Starcraft 2!

It sounded great and all, but the first time we ever saw Slayers was in the first season of the GSTL. They were matched up against ZeNex, considered one of the weaker teams, and it was a good opportunity to see how good these kids Boxer picked would do on the main stage. The excitement was overflowing, with Boxer putting himself out first to take on the first ZeNex player HyeJun. This was going to be awesome!

But then he lost.

Oh, uhm, okay. Let's see who else Slayers has up to next? SlayersSoul (Ryung) must be good, right?

He lost badly.

Alright, okay, let's see, who is this Alicia guy? He is going to finally win a game for Slayers, right?

He lost badly.

Things looked really bad. Slayers looked greener than the grass on a WindowsXP desktop, and they were getting massacred by a relative unknown in the scene. They were down 3-0 and were only one loss away from getting embarrassingly all-killed.

Enter a man named Jjob. He was another unknown in Starcraft 2, but he had a Brood War past as pro player on Boxer's former team SKT1, playing with the ID '1988.' He had only played five games in total in Brood War, losing three of them, and those were all in 2008, three years earlier. It looked grim, but Jjob played well, much better than his teammates before him, finally putting an end to the reign of terror HyeJun was casting over Slayers.

Amusingly enough, Jjob would then take on future SlayerS recruit Puzzle, gaining another win for his team and getting them closer to a tie score. In his third game, he faced future GSL semifinalist Byun, and for the third time, put the team on his back and took another victory. Amazingly, this Jjob character was turning out to be pretty damn good, only a win away from achieving the elusive reverse all-kill.

Sadly, in the end, he lost to ZeNexNuke (later known as Hack) and wasn't able to complete the comeback. However, this Jjob guy had made a name for himself that night. Slayers didn't look particulary good except for him, but you could see the potential in the players that Boxer had chosen to be on his team.

Fast forward to a year later: Jjob, that unknown who had a three kill on that night so long ago, is now known as MMA, one of the most popular and most skilled players in the world. He has won MLG Columbus, IEM Kiev, and two GSL championships, putting him in the select company of players who have won tournaments on three different continents. He is now the captain of SlayerS, who have won two GSTL championships in the meanwhile. MMA came in as the closer in the finals of both those tournaments, and took the wings off DongRaeGu and MVP.

SlayerS is now the most popular Korean team in the world. They now routinely send three or more players to the top sixteen of Code S, and are one of the three favorites with Incredible Miracle and MvP to take any team tournament they enter.

Similar to what occurred in Brood War with iloveoov, MMA is Boxer's anointed one, the anchor and heart of the team. When Slayers are down and need someone to save them, you expect MMA to come through. Even when it looks like the world is against him and there is no way he can come back, he won't stop fighting. To the bitter end, MMA will carry on the legacy that Boxer bestowed upon him, and fight to the very end.

In 2012, the goal is clear for MMA: it's time to surpass MVP. In the last two GSL series they've played, MMA has a record of 7-1 against him, winning the October finals and Blizzard Cup in the process. He now needs only one more to tie MVP and Nestea, making a case to be known as the best player in the history of Starcraft II. With Jessica, his teammates, and Boxer behind him, pushing him towards his goal, who can doubt him?


OOPS.

THE FIONN CURSE!!!!!
www.superbeerbrothers.com
farnham
Profile Joined January 2011
1378 Posts
October 17 2012 20:15 GMT
#1564
On October 18 2012 05:11 Acrofales wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 18 2012 05:06 farnham wrote:
On October 18 2012 05:00 nvs. wrote:
Who would have thought the drama queen couldn't manage a professional team?

Yes but she was right

Startale confirms that slayers players were not allowed to be practiced with

http://www.fomos.kr/board/board.php?mode=read&keyno=127949&db=issue&cate=001&page=1&field=&kwrd=

Is that translated anywhere? And what's the explanation? I mean... some of the slayers players were good friends with players on other teams. Seems weird to disallow them to practice. I also remember some interviews in which cross-team players were thanked for practicing together, both slayers players who were practice partners and slayers players who had out-of-team practice partners.

Can't remember if it was foreign players, but particularly puzzle, coca, genius and yugioh, who came from other big teams before joining slayers seem like they would have their connections already.

Dunno if it was translated... Some one will probably do it soon enough
zestzorb
Profile Joined August 2010
Thailand776 Posts
October 17 2012 20:16 GMT
#1565
On October 18 2012 05:10 Fionn wrote:
I wrote this at the start of the year:

+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]

The Rise of SlayerS and MMA


If you are just getting into Starcraft 2 and look at SlayerS now, I'm sure you must think, 'Wow, these guys are amazing! I bet they've been awesome forever!' To tell you the truth, dear newbie to the world of eSports, you would be dead wrong. When Slayers was first created, there was a lot of hype. Boxer was creating a team, freaking Boxer, the legend of all legends, the Emperor himself, and he was going to hand pick his own disciples to take over Starcraft 2!

It sounded great and all, but the first time we ever saw Slayers was in the first season of the GSTL. They were matched up against ZeNex, considered one of the weaker teams, and it was a good opportunity to see how good these kids Boxer picked would do on the main stage. The excitement was overflowing, with Boxer putting himself out first to take on the first ZeNex player HyeJun. This was going to be awesome!

But then he lost.

Oh, uhm, okay. Let's see who else Slayers has up to next? SlayersSoul (Ryung) must be good, right?

He lost badly.

Alright, okay, let's see, who is this Alicia guy? He is going to finally win a game for Slayers, right?

He lost badly.

Things looked really bad. Slayers looked greener than the grass on a WindowsXP desktop, and they were getting massacred by a relative unknown in the scene. They were down 3-0 and were only one loss away from getting embarrassingly all-killed.

Enter a man named Jjob. He was another unknown in Starcraft 2, but he had a Brood War past as pro player on Boxer's former team SKT1, playing with the ID '1988.' He had only played five games in total in Brood War, losing three of them, and those were all in 2008, three years earlier. It looked grim, but Jjob played well, much better than his teammates before him, finally putting an end to the reign of terror HyeJun was casting over Slayers.

Amusingly enough, Jjob would then take on future SlayerS recruit Puzzle, gaining another win for his team and getting them closer to a tie score. In his third game, he faced future GSL semifinalist Byun, and for the third time, put the team on his back and took another victory. Amazingly, this Jjob character was turning out to be pretty damn good, only a win away from achieving the elusive reverse all-kill.

Sadly, in the end, he lost to ZeNexNuke (later known as Hack) and wasn't able to complete the comeback. However, this Jjob guy had made a name for himself that night. Slayers didn't look particulary good except for him, but you could see the potential in the players that Boxer had chosen to be on his team.

Fast forward to a year later: Jjob, that unknown who had a three kill on that night so long ago, is now known as MMA, one of the most popular and most skilled players in the world. He has won MLG Columbus, IEM Kiev, and two GSL championships, putting him in the select company of players who have won tournaments on three different continents. He is now the captain of SlayerS, who have won two GSTL championships in the meanwhile. MMA came in as the closer in the finals of both those tournaments, and took the wings off DongRaeGu and MVP.

SlayerS is now the most popular Korean team in the world. They now routinely send three or more players to the top sixteen of Code S, and are one of the three favorites with Incredible Miracle and MvP to take any team tournament they enter.

Similar to what occurred in Brood War with iloveoov, MMA is Boxer's anointed one, the anchor and heart of the team. When Slayers are down and need someone to save them, you expect MMA to come through. Even when it looks like the world is against him and there is no way he can come back, he won't stop fighting. To the bitter end, MMA will carry on the legacy that Boxer bestowed upon him, and fight to the very end.

In 2012, the goal is clear for MMA: it's time to surpass MVP. In the last two GSL series they've played, MMA has a record of 7-1 against him, winning the October finals and Blizzard Cup in the process. He now needs only one more to tie MVP and Nestea, making a case to be known as the best player in the history of Starcraft II. With Jessica, his teammates, and Boxer behind him, pushing him towards his goal, who can doubt him?


OOPS.

Damn you and your curse Fionn.
Kasaraki
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
Denmark7115 Posts
October 17 2012 20:16 GMT
#1566
On October 18 2012 05:10 Fionn wrote:
I wrote this at the start of the year:

+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]

The Rise of SlayerS and MMA


If you are just getting into Starcraft 2 and look at SlayerS now, I'm sure you must think, 'Wow, these guys are amazing! I bet they've been awesome forever!' To tell you the truth, dear newbie to the world of eSports, you would be dead wrong. When Slayers was first created, there was a lot of hype. Boxer was creating a team, freaking Boxer, the legend of all legends, the Emperor himself, and he was going to hand pick his own disciples to take over Starcraft 2!

It sounded great and all, but the first time we ever saw Slayers was in the first season of the GSTL. They were matched up against ZeNex, considered one of the weaker teams, and it was a good opportunity to see how good these kids Boxer picked would do on the main stage. The excitement was overflowing, with Boxer putting himself out first to take on the first ZeNex player HyeJun. This was going to be awesome!

But then he lost.

Oh, uhm, okay. Let's see who else Slayers has up to next? SlayersSoul (Ryung) must be good, right?

He lost badly.

Alright, okay, let's see, who is this Alicia guy? He is going to finally win a game for Slayers, right?

He lost badly.

Things looked really bad. Slayers looked greener than the grass on a WindowsXP desktop, and they were getting massacred by a relative unknown in the scene. They were down 3-0 and were only one loss away from getting embarrassingly all-killed.

Enter a man named Jjob. He was another unknown in Starcraft 2, but he had a Brood War past as pro player on Boxer's former team SKT1, playing with the ID '1988.' He had only played five games in total in Brood War, losing three of them, and those were all in 2008, three years earlier. It looked grim, but Jjob played well, much better than his teammates before him, finally putting an end to the reign of terror HyeJun was casting over Slayers.

Amusingly enough, Jjob would then take on future SlayerS recruit Puzzle, gaining another win for his team and getting them closer to a tie score. In his third game, he faced future GSL semifinalist Byun, and for the third time, put the team on his back and took another victory. Amazingly, this Jjob character was turning out to be pretty damn good, only a win away from achieving the elusive reverse all-kill.

Sadly, in the end, he lost to ZeNexNuke (later known as Hack) and wasn't able to complete the comeback. However, this Jjob guy had made a name for himself that night. Slayers didn't look particulary good except for him, but you could see the potential in the players that Boxer had chosen to be on his team.

Fast forward to a year later: Jjob, that unknown who had a three kill on that night so long ago, is now known as MMA, one of the most popular and most skilled players in the world. He has won MLG Columbus, IEM Kiev, and two GSL championships, putting him in the select company of players who have won tournaments on three different continents. He is now the captain of SlayerS, who have won two GSTL championships in the meanwhile. MMA came in as the closer in the finals of both those tournaments, and took the wings off DongRaeGu and MVP.

SlayerS is now the most popular Korean team in the world. They now routinely send three or more players to the top sixteen of Code S, and are one of the three favorites with Incredible Miracle and MvP to take any team tournament they enter.

Similar to what occurred in Brood War with iloveoov, MMA is Boxer's anointed one, the anchor and heart of the team. When Slayers are down and need someone to save them, you expect MMA to come through. Even when it looks like the world is against him and there is no way he can come back, he won't stop fighting. To the bitter end, MMA will carry on the legacy that Boxer bestowed upon him, and fight to the very end.

In 2012, the goal is clear for MMA: it's time to surpass MVP. In the last two GSL series they've played, MMA has a record of 7-1 against him, winning the October finals and Blizzard Cup in the process. He now needs only one more to tie MVP and Nestea, making a case to be known as the best player in the history of Starcraft II. With Jessica, his teammates, and Boxer behind him, pushing him towards his goal, who can doubt him?


OOPS.


Fionn curse is nothing new. ;o
ragz_gt
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
9172 Posts
October 17 2012 20:17 GMT
#1567
On October 18 2012 05:14 achan1058 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 18 2012 05:12 ragz_gt wrote:
On October 18 2012 05:08 sihyunie wrote:
In the Fomos article, he basically admits to preventing eSF players from practicing with Slayers players. He said that at that time, Slayers was playing by itself and there needed to be some regulation.

WTF???
How can eSF have regulation on an independent team??? What right does it have to segregate the team because it didn't follow what it wanted to do???? Mr. Won basically is showing why Slayers didn't want to deal with eSF!


Well, he didn't regulate Slayers, he regulated other teams in SC2Con, which he had every rights to. It was still a douche bag move, but it's pretty common for an association to limit interaction with outside teams.

Except SC2Con fell apart soon after that. What happened to the embargo afterwards?


The same is true when it become ESF. An association can and often does prevent its members from interacting with outside teams. It's not like some KHL team can practice with NHL team without league approval. In this case it sounds wrong but that's usually one of the perk of entering an association.
I'm not an otaku, I'm a specialist.
Snijjer
Profile Joined September 2011
United States989 Posts
October 17 2012 20:17 GMT
#1568
esf and manager J probably came out looking the worst in all of this.
Wuster
Profile Joined May 2011
1974 Posts
October 17 2012 20:18 GMT
#1569
On October 18 2012 05:14 achan1058 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 18 2012 05:12 ragz_gt wrote:
On October 18 2012 05:08 sihyunie wrote:
In the Fomos article, he basically admits to preventing eSF players from practicing with Slayers players. He said that at that time, Slayers was playing by itself and there needed to be some regulation.

WTF???
How can eSF have regulation on an independent team??? What right does it have to segregate the team because it didn't follow what it wanted to do???? Mr. Won basically is showing why Slayers didn't want to deal with eSF!


Well, he didn't regulate Slayers, he regulated other teams in SC2Con, which he had every rights to. It was still a douche bag move, but it's pretty common for an association to limit interaction with outside teams.

Except SC2Con fell apart soon after that. What happened to the embargo afterwards?


Let's not forget whey SC2Con fell apart. Someone tried something shady with FXO (forget what exactly).

*And* they tried to penalize TSL because FruitDealer and Tester made up some crap to get off the team (and join Coach Won's team... surprise, surprise).

So I don't know how people expected eSF to be any different from SC2Con when it was run by the same guy.
b0lt
Profile Joined March 2009
United States790 Posts
October 17 2012 20:18 GMT
#1570
Oh look, turns out ESF is a giant clusterfuck and much much worse than KeSPA. Who could have seen this coming?
BlitchizSC2
Profile Joined August 2010
United States306 Posts
October 17 2012 20:18 GMT
#1571
This is one of the saddest stories I've read in eSports.
www.twitch.tv/blitchizsc2 | http://www.youtube.com/BlitchizStarcraft ~ fighting!
Qaatar
Profile Joined January 2011
1409 Posts
October 17 2012 20:19 GMT
#1572
On October 18 2012 05:15 ggrrg wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 18 2012 05:07 jmbthirteen wrote:
On October 18 2012 05:06 farnham wrote:
On October 18 2012 05:00 nvs. wrote:
Who would have thought the drama queen couldn't manage a professional team?

Yes but she was right

Startale confirms that slayers players were not allowed to be practiced with

http://www.fomos.kr/board/board.php?mode=read&keyno=127949&db=issue&cate=001&page=1&field=&kwrd=

except more went wrong that the whole esf not letting them practice together....


You do realize that the main issues here are ESF ostracizing slayers' players and J fucking up the team internally? Basically all the tension inside the team, the loss of motivation and trust stem from those two issues.


I'd really like to hear more about this "J" character from other sources. Why would MMA and others be so naive as to believe him, a manager of just a couple months, over Jessica and Boxer, who have known him for years (and seemingly by all accounts, before J came along, treated him well)? Who the hell is this guy, and where is he now?
achan1058
Profile Joined February 2012
1091 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-17 20:19:53
October 17 2012 20:19 GMT
#1573
On October 18 2012 05:17 ragz_gt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 18 2012 05:14 achan1058 wrote:
On October 18 2012 05:12 ragz_gt wrote:
On October 18 2012 05:08 sihyunie wrote:
In the Fomos article, he basically admits to preventing eSF players from practicing with Slayers players. He said that at that time, Slayers was playing by itself and there needed to be some regulation.

WTF???
How can eSF have regulation on an independent team??? What right does it have to segregate the team because it didn't follow what it wanted to do???? Mr. Won basically is showing why Slayers didn't want to deal with eSF!


Well, he didn't regulate Slayers, he regulated other teams in SC2Con, which he had every rights to. It was still a douche bag move, but it's pretty common for an association to limit interaction with outside teams.

Except SC2Con fell apart soon after that. What happened to the embargo afterwards?


The same is true when it become ESF. An association can and often does prevent its members from interacting with outside teams. It's not like some KHL team can practice with NHL team without league approval. In this case it sounds wrong but that's usually one of the perk of entering an association.

Except it did not became eSF. There was a big gap in the middle where there was no organization, after FXO pulled out..
On October 18 2012 05:18 Wuster wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 18 2012 05:14 achan1058 wrote:
On October 18 2012 05:12 ragz_gt wrote:
On October 18 2012 05:08 sihyunie wrote:
In the Fomos article, he basically admits to preventing eSF players from practicing with Slayers players. He said that at that time, Slayers was playing by itself and there needed to be some regulation.

WTF???
How can eSF have regulation on an independent team??? What right does it have to segregate the team because it didn't follow what it wanted to do???? Mr. Won basically is showing why Slayers didn't want to deal with eSF!


Well, he didn't regulate Slayers, he regulated other teams in SC2Con, which he had every rights to. It was still a douche bag move, but it's pretty common for an association to limit interaction with outside teams.

Except SC2Con fell apart soon after that. What happened to the embargo afterwards?


Let's not forget whey SC2Con fell apart. Someone tried something shady with FXO (forget what exactly).

*And* they tried to penalize TSL because FruitDealer and Tester made up some crap to get off the team (and join Coach Won's team... surprise, surprise).

So I don't know how people expected eSF to be any different from SC2Con when it was run by the same guy.

BoSs confirmed that it wasn't lead by the same guy. Check the comments in this thread earlier.
Waxangel
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
United States33360 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-17 20:20:50
October 17 2012 20:19 GMT
#1574
HEre ya go: LG-IM Coach Hirai explains his side of the Ganzi/SlayerS ordeal. It's not really too important in the big picture of what Jessica is saying, but it's somewhat relevant since she brings it up as the beginning of poor S2con/eSF vs SlayerS relations.

http://www.inven.co.kr/webzine/news/?news=48786

Before I start, I would like to say I apologize for worrying everyone with the bad news. Also, I admit that the team environment on IM was not good right after the team was founded.

Because I was running an amateur StarCraft 1 house before I founded the StarCraft 2 team, about half of the players at the house were still playing StarCraft 1 at first. Also, there were some members who were paying a fee to stay in the house [Note: Common amateur SC1/SC2 house practice. At present, a team cannot receive a membership fee from its players if they wish to be recognized as a pro-team by eSF or GomTV]. However, I could not just kick out all the SC1 players because I started running a SC2 team.

Thus, I gave the amateur SC1 players a certain amount of time so that they could either join a pro-team or move to another house. So during this period, it's true that every day life and the practice environment weren't that good. Also, it was a period where funds were lacking, and the team was being run in a very difficult situation. Some of the players even came to me and offered 50,000 won, 100,000 won ($45~90) for the food budget. I want it to be clear that this was the situation.

In October of 2010, not long after the team was formed, I saw Mvp and Ganzi talking. Ganzi had only played SC2 for about one or two days. There was one seat left in the house, and the SC1 amateurs were starting to leave one by one, and there was one player I wanted to accept once I could handle an extra player. Around that time, he was one of the top level players in the business. However, I trusted Ganzi and gave him that spot. And I informed him beforehand that the team house situation wasn't very good. Ganzi told me that all he needed was a place to play, and he joined the team.

Though Ganzi had only started SC2, I knew that Ganzi had been a diligent player since he was a SC1 amateur, and I believed that he would do well alongside Mvp with time. And it was so, as he gained a lot of skill and took #1 on the ladder in 2.5~3 months.

Because he had improved so much, I wanted to give him a chance in tournaments, so I sent him out in the Danawa tournament as my 'coaches pick' player. The problem was that the night of the tournament, Ganzi suddenly said he wanted to go to SlayerS. I asked him if it was confirmed, and he said he had been informed that it was cleared.

Honestly, from my standpoint, I was very hurt. So I called then SlayerS coach Seong Sang Hoon immediately to see what was going on, and got a reply that they had never agreed to take in Ganzi. I told him that there must have been a misunderstanding, apologized, and ended the call. The next morning, Ganzi packed his things and left the house in the morning.

As he left, Ganzi didn't apologize or leave a word of thanks. The only thing he did after leaving was to contact SlayerS and said that he had left the team. And then the sent me a text. I thought maybe it would be a word of thanks or apology, but instead it was to tell me that because I had called SlayerS to check, he hadn't been able to join, and that he wanted me to clear things up.

I hadn't signed a contract with Ganzi, and it was his decision to go to a team with an environment where he thought he could play well. So it might seem a funny that I'm criticizing his decision, but I think he didn't keep proper etiquette. I had taken on a player who had only played StarCraft for a few days, and I had done things to help him, and that hurt me more. What kind of coach would have taken in a player who had only played for 2~3 days?

I think this misunderstanding became deeper because it became seen as Ganzi moving to SlayerS through shady methods. Also, while Ganzi was at the house, his complaints about the poor environment caused one or two players that I was prepared to accept to go to other teams. This I've confirmed directly from those players. Even if he doesn't bash the team directly, saying things about the team environment or negative things about the team off record, I think is an insult to the team. I don't think it was right to do those things.

Because of this, I brought up Ganzi's behavior at an S2con meeting to the other coaches. At that meeting, Mr. Lee Jun Ho (?), Mr. Won (Startale), Mr. Choi (MVP), Mr. Yoon (ZeNEX), Mr. Park (PRIME), Mr. Kim (fOu, not Choya), and Mr. Lee (TSL) were present. Also, SlayerS coach Mr. Seong was there as well.

I absolutely did not request a suspension for Ganzi there, and I never have asked for one. All I wanted to do was talk to the other teams, and make sure something like that didn't happen again. The main agenda of the day was to make rules regarding transfers, and 'protection of players between coaches.' (??). At that meeting, I told coach Seong that there would be no problem with SlayerS taking Ganzi.

But there was another hurtful event to come. Not long after, Ms. Kim Ga Yeon requested a three way talk regarding the Ganzi case, with all the team coaches and Ganzi present.

According to SlayerS and Ganzi, I had 18 SC1 players in the house, and had received 500,000 won a piece from each of them. Also, they claimed that no one practiced and just goofed off, that the environment was bad, and that I was not qualified to be a head coach.

Additionally, Ganzi was disappointed in me, and had to move to an environment where he could practice properly. That day, I first learned that Ganzi had those kind of feelings. I asked him then, why he hadn't told me those things earlier.

At that meeting, I said that I never made money running a SC1 house. I offered free spots to players who came from poor families, and there were a lot more times when I wasn't able to collect money from the other players. At that time I had 12, not 18 SC1 players in the house, and I hadn't received that much money from them. Of the players who were in bad financial situations I didn't receive any money from, while I received about 400,000 a piece from 6~7 players. Also, I received smaller sums from some of the other players.


I gave the SC1 players time to leave the house, whether it was to return to studies, find a new team house, or join a pro team. If you ask those players now, they will all confirm it as well. Some of them I even called recently to make sure that was the situation at the time. After that period, there were a few players who were at the house, paying house fees.


I acknowledge that as mentioned before, because we shared the space with SC1 players, the environment wasn't the best overall, and general mood wasn't that good. And I admit that I received fees from the players. All those things contributed to a poor environment. But if he really couldn't stand staying in such an environment, I want to ask why that never reached my ears.

Also, I checked Ms. Kim's prepared chatlogs about Ganzi saying negative things about the house, and it was all things that could be easily misunderstood. I personally think that telling a player planning to come to our house to choose carefully, telling him about the environment directly led to him choosing a different team. On this part, even Boxer (who was at the meeting) said it was something that could be misunderstood. All of this was witnessed by the coahes there.

I clearly admitted the things that I should have, and did not object at all to Ganzi going to SlayerS. That was the conclusion of the day. I never asked for a suspension for Ganzi, and I don't believe I have any reason to be sorry to Ganzi even now. Nor do I have any reason to be sorry to SlayerS, who acquired a teamlessGnaiz. This is simply a problem between Ganzi and myself.

Also, it's a misunderstanding that this was start of s2con coaches grouping together to criticize or hate SlayerS, and relations continued afterward. I just hoped that something similar to the Ganzi case wouldn't happen to other teams.

To the end, there's no apology or thanks for Ganzi. Maybe this all happened because no one wanted to speak frankly. Hearing Ganzi say that I was not qualified to be a coach and that the team environment was a mess gave me the motivation to make things better, and it was a turning point for me.

Honestly, I don't know who was the 'victim.' I was hurt at that meeting in front of everyone, and I even considered quitting this business. I'm thankful to my players who stayed on through those bad conditions until now, and I will work even harder for them. I want to do more for my players in the future.

That is all I have to say about Coach Kim's allegations about Ganzi, IM, and SlayerS.
AdministratorHey HP can you redo everything youve ever done because i have a small complaint?
red4ce
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States7313 Posts
October 17 2012 20:20 GMT
#1575
On one hand, I can completely understand Alicia's dislike of Jessica. She causes distractions by emotionally overreacting to everything, and he doesn't respect her base of authority. It'd be one thing to be criticized by Boxer, a man who has gone through more hardships than most other progamer have had to go through, certainly more than what the SC2 guys do. Jessica, though, is essentially an outsider. She's rich, worked in dramas, and had no connection to e-sports until she married Boxer. I listen to what my boss tells me to do, but if his wife tried the same? No chance.

On the other hand I'm not particularly impressed with his reasoning for not participating in the GSTL. I don't see how being afraid of being chewed out for losing is an acceptable mentality for a professional. The 'me-first, individual leagues are the only ones that matter' mentality that GSL teams and pros have is the reason the GSTL is a joke compared to Proleague. Same thing goes for the part about not receiving acknowledgement for getting 2nd place at foreign tournaments. I mean c'mon Alicia you're not 8 years old, just be happy with the big check. Why would you seek praise from somebody you don't like anyways?
Kerence
Profile Joined May 2011
Sweden1817 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-17 20:24:00
October 17 2012 20:21 GMT
#1576
On October 18 2012 05:16 Kasaraki wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 18 2012 05:10 Fionn wrote:
I wrote this at the start of the year:

+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]

The Rise of SlayerS and MMA


If you are just getting into Starcraft 2 and look at SlayerS now, I'm sure you must think, 'Wow, these guys are amazing! I bet they've been awesome forever!' To tell you the truth, dear newbie to the world of eSports, you would be dead wrong. When Slayers was first created, there was a lot of hype. Boxer was creating a team, freaking Boxer, the legend of all legends, the Emperor himself, and he was going to hand pick his own disciples to take over Starcraft 2!

It sounded great and all, but the first time we ever saw Slayers was in the first season of the GSTL. They were matched up against ZeNex, considered one of the weaker teams, and it was a good opportunity to see how good these kids Boxer picked would do on the main stage. The excitement was overflowing, with Boxer putting himself out first to take on the first ZeNex player HyeJun. This was going to be awesome!

But then he lost.

Oh, uhm, okay. Let's see who else Slayers has up to next? SlayersSoul (Ryung) must be good, right?

He lost badly.

Alright, okay, let's see, who is this Alicia guy? He is going to finally win a game for Slayers, right?

He lost badly.

Things looked really bad. Slayers looked greener than the grass on a WindowsXP desktop, and they were getting massacred by a relative unknown in the scene. They were down 3-0 and were only one loss away from getting embarrassingly all-killed.

Enter a man named Jjob. He was another unknown in Starcraft 2, but he had a Brood War past as pro player on Boxer's former team SKT1, playing with the ID '1988.' He had only played five games in total in Brood War, losing three of them, and those were all in 2008, three years earlier. It looked grim, but Jjob played well, much better than his teammates before him, finally putting an end to the reign of terror HyeJun was casting over Slayers.

Amusingly enough, Jjob would then take on future SlayerS recruit Puzzle, gaining another win for his team and getting them closer to a tie score. In his third game, he faced future GSL semifinalist Byun, and for the third time, put the team on his back and took another victory. Amazingly, this Jjob character was turning out to be pretty damn good, only a win away from achieving the elusive reverse all-kill.

Sadly, in the end, he lost to ZeNexNuke (later known as Hack) and wasn't able to complete the comeback. However, this Jjob guy had made a name for himself that night. Slayers didn't look particulary good except for him, but you could see the potential in the players that Boxer had chosen to be on his team.

Fast forward to a year later: Jjob, that unknown who had a three kill on that night so long ago, is now known as MMA, one of the most popular and most skilled players in the world. He has won MLG Columbus, IEM Kiev, and two GSL championships, putting him in the select company of players who have won tournaments on three different continents. He is now the captain of SlayerS, who have won two GSTL championships in the meanwhile. MMA came in as the closer in the finals of both those tournaments, and took the wings off DongRaeGu and MVP.

SlayerS is now the most popular Korean team in the world. They now routinely send three or more players to the top sixteen of Code S, and are one of the three favorites with Incredible Miracle and MvP to take any team tournament they enter.

Similar to what occurred in Brood War with iloveoov, MMA is Boxer's anointed one, the anchor and heart of the team. When Slayers are down and need someone to save them, you expect MMA to come through. Even when it looks like the world is against him and there is no way he can come back, he won't stop fighting. To the bitter end, MMA will carry on the legacy that Boxer bestowed upon him, and fight to the very end.

In 2012, the goal is clear for MMA: it's time to surpass MVP. In the last two GSL series they've played, MMA has a record of 7-1 against him, winning the October finals and Blizzard Cup in the process. He now needs only one more to tie MVP and Nestea, making a case to be known as the best player in the history of Starcraft II. With Jessica, his teammates, and Boxer behind him, pushing him towards his goal, who can doubt him?


OOPS.


Fionn curse is nothing new. ;o


I didn't realize his curse was this strong. It all becomes clear now.

On October 18 2012 05:19 Waxangel wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
HEre ya go: LG-IM Coach Hirai explains his side of the Ganzi/SlayerS ordeal. It's not really too important in the big picture of what Jessica is saying, but it's somewhat relevant since she brings it up as the beginning of poor S2con/eSF vs SlayerS relations.

http://www.inven.co.kr/webzine/news/?news=48786

Before I start, I would like to say I apologize for worrying everyone with the bad news. Also, I admit that the team environment on IM was not good right after the team was founded.

Because I was running an amateur StarCraft 1 house before I founded the StarCraft 2 team, about half of the players at the house were still playing StarCraft 1 at first. Also, there were some members who were paying a fee to stay in the house [Note: Common amateur SC1/SC2 house practice. At present, a team cannot receive a membership fee from its players if they wish to be recognized as a pro-team by eSF or GomTV]. However, I could not just kick out all the SC1 players because I started running a SC2 team.

Thus, I gave the amateur SC1 players a certain amount of time so that they could either join a pro-team or move to another house. So during this period, it's true that every day life and the practice environment weren't that good. Also, it was a period where funds were lacking, and the team was being run in a very difficult situation. Some of the players even came to me and offered 50,000 won, 100,000 won ($45~90) for the food budget. I want it to be clear that this was the situation.

In October of 2010, not long after the team was formed, I saw Mvp and Ganzi talking. Ganzi had only played SC2 for about one or two days. There was one seat left in the house, and the SC1 amateurs were starting to leave one by one, and there was one player I wanted to accept once I could handle an extra player. Around that time, he was one of the top level players in the business. However, I trusted Ganzi and gave him that spot. And I informed him beforehand that the team house situation wasn't very good. Ganzi told me that all he needed was a place to play, and he joined the team.

Though Ganzi had only started SC2, I knew that Ganzi had been a diligent player since he was a SC1 amateur, and I believed that he would do well alongside Mvp with time. And it was so, as he gained a lot of skill and took #1 on the ladder in 2.5~3 months.

Because he had improved so much, I wanted to give him a chance in tournaments, so I sent him out in the Danawa tournament as my 'coaches pick' player. The problem was that the night of the tournament, Ganzi suddenly said he wanted to go to SlayerS. I asked him if it was confirmed, and he said he had been informed that it was cleared.

Honestly, from my standpoint, I was very hurt. So I called then SlayerS coach Seong Sang Hoon immediately to see what was going on, and got a reply that they had never agreed to take in Ganzi. I told him that there must have been a misunderstanding, apologized, and ended the call. The next morning, Ganzi packed his things and left the house in the morning.

As he left, Ganzi didn't apologize or leave a word of thanks. The only thing he did after leaving was to contact SlayerS and said that he had left the team. And then the sent me a text. I thought maybe it would be a word of thanks or apology, but instead it was to tell me that because I had called SlayerS to check, he hadn't been able to join, and that he wanted me to clear things up.

I hadn't signed a contract with Ganzi, and it was his decision to go to a team with an environment where he thought he could play well. So it might seem a funny that I'm criticizing his decision, but I think he didn't keep proper etiquette. I had taken on a player who had only played StarCraft for a few days, and I had done things to help him, and that hurt me more. What kind of coach would have taken in a player who had only played for 2~3 days?

I think this misunderstanding became deeper because it became seen as Ganzi moving to SlayerS through shady methods. Also, while Ganzi was at the house, his complaints about the poor environment caused one or two players that I was prepared to accept to go to other teams. This I've confirmed directly from those players. Even if he doesn't bash the team directly, saying things about the team environment or negative things about the team off record, I think is an insult to the team. I don't think it was right to do those things.

Because of this, I brought up Ganzi's behavior at an S2con meeting to the other coaches. At that meeting, Mr. Lee Jun Ho (?), Mr. Won (Startale), Mr. Choi (MVP), Mr. Yoon (ZeNEX), Mr. Park (PRIME), Mr. Kim (fOu, not Choya), and Mr. Lee (TSL) were present. Also, SlayerS coach Mr. Seong was there as well.

I absolutely did not request a suspension for Ganzi there, and I never have asked for one. All I wanted to do was talk to the other teams, and make sure something like that didn't happen again. The main agenda of the day was to make rules regarding transfers, and 'protection of players between coaches.' (??). At that meeting, I told coach Seong that there would be no problem with SlayerS taking Ganzi.

But there was another hurtful event to come. Not long after, Ms. Kim Ga Yeon requested a three way talk regarding the Ganzi case, with all the team coaches and Ganzi present.

According to SlayerS and Ganzi, I had 18 SC1 players in the house, and had received 500,000 won a piece from each of them. Also, they claimed that no one practiced and just goofed off, that the environment was bad, and that I was not qualified to be a head coach.

Additionally, Ganzi was disappointed in me, and had to move to an environment where he could practice properly. That day, I first learned that Ganzi had those kind of feelings. I asked him then, why he hadn't told me those things earlier.

At that meeting, I said that I never made money running a SC1 house. I offered free spots to players who came from poor families, and there were a lot more times when I wasn't able to collect money from the other players. At that time I had 12, not 18 SC1 players in the house, and I hadn't received that much money from them. Of the players who were in bad financial situations I didn't receive any money from, while I received about 400,000 a piece from 6~7 players. Also, I received smaller sums from some of the other players.


I gave the SC1 players time to leave the house, whether it was to return to studies, find a new team house, or join a pro team. If you ask those players now, they will all confirm it as well. Some of them I even called recently to make sure that was the situation at the time. After that period, there were a few players who were at the house, paying house fees.


I acknowledge that as mentioned before, because we shared the space with SC1 players, the environment wasn't the best overall, and general mood wasn't that good. And I admit that I received fees from the players. All those things contributed to a poor environment. But if he really couldn't stand staying in such an environment, I want to ask why that never reached my ears.

Also, I checked Ms. Kim's prepared chatlogs about Ganzi saying negative things about the house, and it was all things that could be easily misunderstood. I personally think that telling a player planning to come to our house to choose carefully, telling him about the environment directly led to him choosing a different team. On this part, even Boxer (who was at the meeting) said it was something that could be misunderstood. All of this was witnessed by the coahes there.

I clearly admitted the things that I should have, and did not object at all to Ganzi going to SlayerS. That was the conclusion of the day. I never asked for a suspension for Ganzi, and I don't believe I have any reason to be sorry to Ganzi even now. Nor do I have any reason to be sorry to SlayerS, who acquired a teamlessGnaiz. This is simply a problem between Ganzi and myself.

Also, it's a misunderstanding that this was start of s2con coaches grouping together to criticize or hate SlayerS, and relations continued afterward. I just hoped that something similar to the Ganzi case wouldn't happen to other teams.

To the end, there's no apology or thanks for Ganzi. Maybe this all happened because no one wanted to speak frankly. Hearing Ganzi say that I was not qualified to be a coach and that the team environment was a mess gave me the motivation to make things better, and it was a turning point for me.

Honestly, I don't know who was the 'victim.' I was hurt at that meeting in front of everyone, and I even considered quitting this business. I'm thankful to my players who stayed on through those bad conditions until now, and I will work even harder for them. I want to do more for my players in the future.

That is all I have to say about Coach Kim's allegations about Ganzi, IM, and SlayerS.


Thanks for yet another translation!
I am here in the shadows.
ragz_gt
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
9172 Posts
October 17 2012 20:21 GMT
#1577
On October 18 2012 05:19 achan1058 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 18 2012 05:17 ragz_gt wrote:
On October 18 2012 05:14 achan1058 wrote:
On October 18 2012 05:12 ragz_gt wrote:
On October 18 2012 05:08 sihyunie wrote:
In the Fomos article, he basically admits to preventing eSF players from practicing with Slayers players. He said that at that time, Slayers was playing by itself and there needed to be some regulation.

WTF???
How can eSF have regulation on an independent team??? What right does it have to segregate the team because it didn't follow what it wanted to do???? Mr. Won basically is showing why Slayers didn't want to deal with eSF!


Well, he didn't regulate Slayers, he regulated other teams in SC2Con, which he had every rights to. It was still a douche bag move, but it's pretty common for an association to limit interaction with outside teams.

Except SC2Con fell apart soon after that. What happened to the embargo afterwards?


The same is true when it become ESF. An association can and often does prevent its members from interacting with outside teams. It's not like some KHL team can practice with NHL team without league approval. In this case it sounds wrong but that's usually one of the perk of entering an association.

Except it did not became eSF. There was a big gap in the middle where there was no organization, after FXO pulled out..
Show nested quote +
On October 18 2012 05:18 Wuster wrote:
On October 18 2012 05:14 achan1058 wrote:
On October 18 2012 05:12 ragz_gt wrote:
On October 18 2012 05:08 sihyunie wrote:
In the Fomos article, he basically admits to preventing eSF players from practicing with Slayers players. He said that at that time, Slayers was playing by itself and there needed to be some regulation.

WTF???
How can eSF have regulation on an independent team??? What right does it have to segregate the team because it didn't follow what it wanted to do???? Mr. Won basically is showing why Slayers didn't want to deal with eSF!


Well, he didn't regulate Slayers, he regulated other teams in SC2Con, which he had every rights to. It was still a douche bag move, but it's pretty common for an association to limit interaction with outside teams.

Except SC2Con fell apart soon after that. What happened to the embargo afterwards?


Let's not forget whey SC2Con fell apart. Someone tried something shady with FXO (forget what exactly).

*And* they tried to penalize TSL because FruitDealer and Tester made up some crap to get off the team (and join Coach Won's team... surprise, surprise).

So I don't know how people expected eSF to be any different from SC2Con when it was run by the same guy.

BoSs confirmed that it wasn't lead by the same guy. Check the comments in this thread earlier.


No idea what happened during that time but that has nothing to do with the original question, which was how "ESF have power to regulate an independent team (Slayers)". The answer is that ESF did not regulate Slayers, but all its own team, which they do have power to.
I'm not an otaku, I'm a specialist.
farnham
Profile Joined January 2011
1378 Posts
October 17 2012 20:22 GMT
#1578
Jessica replies to startale comment

http://m.playxp.com/sc2/bbs/view?article_id=4190932

Slayers was embargoed since december
achan1058
Profile Joined February 2012
1091 Posts
October 17 2012 20:23 GMT
#1579
On October 18 2012 05:21 ragz_gt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 18 2012 05:19 achan1058 wrote:
On October 18 2012 05:17 ragz_gt wrote:
On October 18 2012 05:14 achan1058 wrote:
On October 18 2012 05:12 ragz_gt wrote:
On October 18 2012 05:08 sihyunie wrote:
In the Fomos article, he basically admits to preventing eSF players from practicing with Slayers players. He said that at that time, Slayers was playing by itself and there needed to be some regulation.

WTF???
How can eSF have regulation on an independent team??? What right does it have to segregate the team because it didn't follow what it wanted to do???? Mr. Won basically is showing why Slayers didn't want to deal with eSF!


Well, he didn't regulate Slayers, he regulated other teams in SC2Con, which he had every rights to. It was still a douche bag move, but it's pretty common for an association to limit interaction with outside teams.

Except SC2Con fell apart soon after that. What happened to the embargo afterwards?


The same is true when it become ESF. An association can and often does prevent its members from interacting with outside teams. It's not like some KHL team can practice with NHL team without league approval. In this case it sounds wrong but that's usually one of the perk of entering an association.

Except it did not became eSF. There was a big gap in the middle where there was no organization, after FXO pulled out..
On October 18 2012 05:18 Wuster wrote:
On October 18 2012 05:14 achan1058 wrote:
On October 18 2012 05:12 ragz_gt wrote:
On October 18 2012 05:08 sihyunie wrote:
In the Fomos article, he basically admits to preventing eSF players from practicing with Slayers players. He said that at that time, Slayers was playing by itself and there needed to be some regulation.

WTF???
How can eSF have regulation on an independent team??? What right does it have to segregate the team because it didn't follow what it wanted to do???? Mr. Won basically is showing why Slayers didn't want to deal with eSF!


Well, he didn't regulate Slayers, he regulated other teams in SC2Con, which he had every rights to. It was still a douche bag move, but it's pretty common for an association to limit interaction with outside teams.

Except SC2Con fell apart soon after that. What happened to the embargo afterwards?


Let's not forget whey SC2Con fell apart. Someone tried something shady with FXO (forget what exactly).

*And* they tried to penalize TSL because FruitDealer and Tester made up some crap to get off the team (and join Coach Won's team... surprise, surprise).

So I don't know how people expected eSF to be any different from SC2Con when it was run by the same guy.

BoSs confirmed that it wasn't lead by the same guy. Check the comments in this thread earlier.


No idea what happened during that time but that has nothing to do with the original question, which was how "ESF have power to regulate an independent team (Slayers)". The answer is that ESF did not regulate Slayers, but all its own team, which they do have power to.

That was not my question. My question was, did the embargo continued after SC2con fell apart.
Penev
Profile Joined October 2012
28475 Posts
October 17 2012 20:24 GMT
#1580
On October 18 2012 05:23 achan1058 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 18 2012 05:21 ragz_gt wrote:
On October 18 2012 05:19 achan1058 wrote:
On October 18 2012 05:17 ragz_gt wrote:
On October 18 2012 05:14 achan1058 wrote:
On October 18 2012 05:12 ragz_gt wrote:
On October 18 2012 05:08 sihyunie wrote:
In the Fomos article, he basically admits to preventing eSF players from practicing with Slayers players. He said that at that time, Slayers was playing by itself and there needed to be some regulation.

WTF???
How can eSF have regulation on an independent team??? What right does it have to segregate the team because it didn't follow what it wanted to do???? Mr. Won basically is showing why Slayers didn't want to deal with eSF!


Well, he didn't regulate Slayers, he regulated other teams in SC2Con, which he had every rights to. It was still a douche bag move, but it's pretty common for an association to limit interaction with outside teams.

Except SC2Con fell apart soon after that. What happened to the embargo afterwards?


The same is true when it become ESF. An association can and often does prevent its members from interacting with outside teams. It's not like some KHL team can practice with NHL team without league approval. In this case it sounds wrong but that's usually one of the perk of entering an association.

Except it did not became eSF. There was a big gap in the middle where there was no organization, after FXO pulled out..
On October 18 2012 05:18 Wuster wrote:
On October 18 2012 05:14 achan1058 wrote:
On October 18 2012 05:12 ragz_gt wrote:
On October 18 2012 05:08 sihyunie wrote:
In the Fomos article, he basically admits to preventing eSF players from practicing with Slayers players. He said that at that time, Slayers was playing by itself and there needed to be some regulation.

WTF???
How can eSF have regulation on an independent team??? What right does it have to segregate the team because it didn't follow what it wanted to do???? Mr. Won basically is showing why Slayers didn't want to deal with eSF!


Well, he didn't regulate Slayers, he regulated other teams in SC2Con, which he had every rights to. It was still a douche bag move, but it's pretty common for an association to limit interaction with outside teams.

Except SC2Con fell apart soon after that. What happened to the embargo afterwards?


Let's not forget whey SC2Con fell apart. Someone tried something shady with FXO (forget what exactly).

*And* they tried to penalize TSL because FruitDealer and Tester made up some crap to get off the team (and join Coach Won's team... surprise, surprise).

So I don't know how people expected eSF to be any different from SC2Con when it was run by the same guy.

BoSs confirmed that it wasn't lead by the same guy. Check the comments in this thread earlier.


No idea what happened during that time but that has nothing to do with the original question, which was how "ESF have power to regulate an independent team (Slayers)". The answer is that ESF did not regulate Slayers, but all its own team, which they do have power to.

That was not my question. My question was, did the embargo continued after SC2con fell apart.


According to Jessica (read OP): Yes
I Protoss winner, could it be?
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