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On October 18 2012 05:29 farnham wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2012 05:26 mikedebo wrote:
Pure theorycrafting ahead:
If I had $1000 bucks or something if I got my guess right, this is what I was presume
- Boxer & Jessica form team
- There is tension between Jessica and the players -- whether because it's her personality or whatever, it exists
- Boxer has to take Jessica's side because, like, they're married. Maybe he even really is on her side.
- Players sign on to be mentored by Boxer, don't account for having to deal with his wife as part of the package
- Players get frustrated at Jessica's authority (possibly the perceived misuse of that authority) and start acting out against both of them
- Boxer is caught between a rock and a hard place and is so stressed out that he actually quits the team he founded
I read Boxer's bio and I regard him as an incredibly strong and incredibly ethical person, but he's never had someone along for the ride before. I was shocked beyond belief when I heard he'd quit his team. I could have seen him _dissolving_ the team, but not leaving it while someone else was in charge.
Something similar to this happened to the band Sepultura in the 90s, one of the most fucking ultimate metal acts of life. The lead singer's wife got involved in management of the band, and whether she was good at it or not, it created a lot of tension and voila, they split. gg
</theorycraft> Dude the issue is that esf blacklisted all slayers players They had noone to practice with
The second part of the issue (and probably contributed just as much to Slayers' dissolve) is the manager "J." Why would players like MMA trust him so much after a couple of months, when they've known Boxer and Jessica for years? There must have been some serious tension between Jessica and the players, and Boxer probably couldn't do much about it, without either harming his relationship with his long-term girlfriend, or damaging his relationship with his players.
It seems like the latter was what happened, but we'll need some more information on why it happened, and specifically, who the hell this "J" character is.
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On October 18 2012 05:18 b0lt wrote:
Oh look, turns out ESF is a giant clusterfuck and much much worse than KeSPA. Who could have seen this coming?
What the hell did you expect and you know what? They have every right to say which players they're allowed to practice against that isn't ladder play because they're a Federation and SlayerS were outsiders.
It's a strong-arming tactic and it's simply business. If you aren't with us; you're against mentality.
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Holy fucking shit, if what she said is true, SC2 is completely fucked as a competitive game. Talk about the most absurd policies and practices between teams that I have ever heard.
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can a korean clear this up
I thought maybe it would be a word of thanks or apology, but instead it was to tell me that because I had called SlayerS to check, he hadn't been able to join, and that he wanted me to clear things up.
so slayers were lying to him, to try and 'steal' ganzi. when they get 'found out' even though he didnt care so much, they still shit themselves and kick him out before he even arrives. its like a pair of kids with their hands in the cookie jar, and even when the parent just smiles they instantly try and blame the other.
is everyone in sc2 in korea literally 12?
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On October 18 2012 05:36 Zefa wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2012 05:26 mikedebo wrote:
Pure theorycrafting ahead:
If I had $1000 bucks or something if I got my guess right, this is what I was presume
- Boxer & Jessica form team
- There is tension between Jessica and the players -- whether because it's her personality or whatever, it exists
- Boxer has to take Jessica's side because, like, they're married. Maybe he even really is on her side.
- Players sign on to be mentored by Boxer, don't account for having to deal with his wife as part of the package
- Players get frustrated at Jessica's authority (possibly the perceived misuse of that authority) and start acting out against both of them
- Boxer is caught between a rock and a hard place and is so stressed out that he actually quits the team he founded
I read Boxer's bio and I regard him as an incredibly strong and incredibly ethical person, but he's never had someone along for the ride before. I was shocked beyond belief when I heard he'd quit his team. I could have seen him _dissolving_ the team, but not leaving it while someone else was in charge.
Something similar to this happened to the band Sepultura in the 90s, one of the most fucking ultimate metal acts of life. The lead singer's wife got involved in management of the band, and whether she was good at it or not, it created a lot of tension and voila, they split. gg
</theorycraft> And I'd buy a share of you for the $1000. I have a feeling that if it was strictly Boxer managing the team, a lot of this would not have happened. Not saying Jessica is a bad person or anything, just seems that her personality really clashes with the players' and creates unnecessary tension which snowballed into a lot of these events unfolding. Boxer leaving slayers basically was like removing the glue that held together the repelling ends of two magnets. Again, pure speculation.
He obviously wouldn't have released a self-indulgent tell-all like this and ended his team on such a sour note.
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On October 18 2012 05:38 Antimatterz wrote:
Holy fucking shit, if what she said is true, SC2 is completely fucked as a competitive game. Talk about the most absurd policies and practices between teams that I have ever heard.
Welcome to the korean sc scene
No really shady business like that happened before (tsl and ma jaeyoon being some examples)
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On October 18 2012 05:37 Qaatar wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2012 05:29 farnham wrote:On October 18 2012 05:26 mikedebo wrote:
Pure theorycrafting ahead:
If I had $1000 bucks or something if I got my guess right, this is what I was presume
- Boxer & Jessica form team
- There is tension between Jessica and the players -- whether because it's her personality or whatever, it exists
- Boxer has to take Jessica's side because, like, they're married. Maybe he even really is on her side.
- Players sign on to be mentored by Boxer, don't account for having to deal with his wife as part of the package
- Players get frustrated at Jessica's authority (possibly the perceived misuse of that authority) and start acting out against both of them
- Boxer is caught between a rock and a hard place and is so stressed out that he actually quits the team he founded
I read Boxer's bio and I regard him as an incredibly strong and incredibly ethical person, but he's never had someone along for the ride before. I was shocked beyond belief when I heard he'd quit his team. I could have seen him _dissolving_ the team, but not leaving it while someone else was in charge.
Something similar to this happened to the band Sepultura in the 90s, one of the most fucking ultimate metal acts of life. The lead singer's wife got involved in management of the band, and whether she was good at it or not, it created a lot of tension and voila, they split. gg
</theorycraft> Dude the issue is that esf blacklisted all slayers players They had noone to practice with The second part of the issue (and probably contributed just as much to Slayers' dissolve) is the manager "J." Why would players like MMA trust him so much after a couple of months, when they've known Boxer and Jessica for years? There must have been some serious tension between Jessica and the players, and Boxer probably couldn't do much about it, without either harming his relationship with his long-term girlfriend, or damaging his relationship with his players. It seems like the latter was what happened, but we'll need some more information on why it happened, and specifically, who the hell this "J" character is.
Remember when Jessica made a big fuss on twitter about how boxer was betrayed and how the twitter and facebook were no longer theirs?
Remember when everyone said she was just a drama queen and overreacting?
This kind of puts it in perspective.
("J" was the foreign community manager who handled these sorts of things, at least from my understanding)
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The "embargo" brought down Slayers.....
The last act of horrible mis-management by Slayers, is not accepting any responsibility for the outcome of their organization.
Its always, someone else's fault.... I didn't see one sentence of personal responsibility in that 100,000 word essay from Jessica.
Fans need to be more selective in whom they worship, its sad that so many people will defend anything just because of a team association.
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On October 18 2012 05:38 turdburgler wrote:can a korean clear this up Show nested quote +I thought maybe it would be a word of thanks or apology, but instead it was to tell me that because I had called SlayerS to check, he hadn't been able to join, and that he wanted me to clear things up. so slayers were lying to him, to try and 'steal' ganzi. when they get 'found out' even though he didnt care so much, they still shit themselves and kick him out before he even arrives. its like a pair of kids with their hands in the cookie jar, and even when the parent just smiles they instantly try and blame the other. is everyone in sc2 in korea literally 12?
He was trying to distract from the real issue
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On October 18 2012 05:37 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2012 05:18 b0lt wrote:
Oh look, turns out ESF is a giant clusterfuck and much much worse than KeSPA. Who could have seen this coming? What the hell did you expect and you know what? They have every right to say which players they're allowed to practice against that isn't ladder play because they're a Federation and SlayerS were outsiders. It's a strong-arming tactic and it's simply business. If you aren't with us; you're against mentality.
Hey what's SC2Con's purpose again? Protecting the players. So how's that "protecting their players"?
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On October 18 2012 05:39 dsousa wrote:
The "embargo" brought down Slayers.....
The last act of horrible mis-management by Slayers, is not accepting any responsibility for the outcome of their organization.
Its always, someone else's fault.... I didn't see one sentence of personal responsibility in that 100,000 word essay from Jessica.
Fans need to be more selective in whom they worship, its sad that so many people will defend anything just because of a team association.
Like you and MMA?
edit: btw, sometimes it just is someone elses fault. Claiming responsibility is a good PR trick but sometimes it's just not accurate.
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On October 18 2012 05:39 dsousa wrote:
The "embargo" brought down Slayers.....
The last act of horrible mis-management by Slayers, is not accepting any responsibility for the outcome of their organization.
Its always, someone else's fault.... I didn't see one sentence of personal responsibility in that 100,000 word essay from Jessica.
Fans need to be more selective in whom they worship, its sad that so many people will defend anything just because of a team association.
It is true though
And how can you be responsible for a embargoe someone setup because he doesnt like your team.
Slayers was the most successful team up until last december which coincidences with the date of embargo
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On October 18 2012 05:40 zestzorb wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2012 05:37 StarStruck wrote:On October 18 2012 05:18 b0lt wrote:
Oh look, turns out ESF is a giant clusterfuck and much much worse than KeSPA. Who could have seen this coming? What the hell did you expect and you know what? They have every right to say which players they're allowed to practice against that isn't ladder play because they're a Federation and SlayerS were outsiders. It's a strong-arming tactic and it's simply business. If you aren't with us; you're against mentality. Hey what's SC2Con's purpose again? Protecting the players. So how's that "protecting their players"?
It was a douche bag move but Slayers were not "their players" obviously.
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You can't possibly say the ESF is worse than KeSPA. KeSPA has done a lot of insane, stupid things to outsiders as well. But people conveniently forget that. In addition, there is no indication that the ESF players dislike the ESF, where as there is plenty of indication that KeSPA players don't like KeSPA at all (aside from the stability it brings).
So you either pick between someone who outsiders hate but insiders are happy with, or one which both outsiders AND insiders are unhappy with. I'd prefer the former any day.
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On October 18 2012 04:09 Kokujin wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2012 04:05 mikedebo wrote:On October 18 2012 03:25 Cygoris wrote:
You don't disband a successful team because you're butt hurt.
+9999 No, you disband because you have no $ponsors and half your roster is unmotivated/quit
Read again please.
Money/sponsors wasn't the issue, motivation was not the issue (I'm quite sure even I can find player motivated to play for Slayers) and results were not the issue.
Drama, treason and lack of (honest) communication between the Korean SC2 community are the issue.
And yes, Slayers was disbanded because she was butt hurt and had enough basically.
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This is so so sad to read. It's terrible when good will and hard work don't pay off and things fall apart. I have so much respect for those who were responsible for trying to keep the thing working and happy. All the best for the future!
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Mhm that great image we all had for "slayers" turned out to be completely fake. Well fuck there goes my favorit team..
I am feeling as if sc2 really is nearing an end, hots could save it though I doubt.
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On October 18 2012 01:33 FidoDido wrote:
It's weird that Jessica thinks of all her players as her children but yet wants them to act like adults when it comes to leaving the team.
I think her way of thinking is too radical and from my experience with Koreans, it is definitely not the norm.
Also, why does she want to solve every problem by sueing someone? I don't recall any other teams doing that when this kind of drama happens.
The way she told her story made it sound like she basically did nothing wrong and everything unfolded into her disfavor. Sounds very unbelievable and extremely common amongst people trying to find an excuse.
I seriously hope she doesn't end up sueing any of the players, I mean most of these players are high school kids who don't know jack shit about professionalism but you can't blame them for that unless you've trained them vigorously on how to act proper etc. This kind of legal action only stunts future teens in Korean who want to be a pro-gamer with the fear of being sued.
I wonder what Genna and Totalbiscuit has to say about this (the part about her pursuing Crank's broken contract) because at least Genna seems like a person who is willing to support her player no matter what the player wants.
My parents think of me as their child, but yet want me to act like an adult. Not sure what your point there is.
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On October 18 2012 05:45 ownyah wrote:
Mhm that great image we all had for "slayers" turned out to be completely fake. Well fuck there goes my favorit team..
I am feeling as if sc2 really is nearing an end, hots could save it though I doubt.
If anything this makes look startale and all other esf teams look bad
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On October 18 2012 05:36 Zefa wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2012 05:26 mikedebo wrote:
Pure theorycrafting ahead:
If I had $1000 bucks or something if I got my guess right, this is what I was presume
- Boxer & Jessica form team
- There is tension between Jessica and the players -- whether because it's her personality or whatever, it exists
- Boxer has to take Jessica's side because, like, they're married. Maybe he even really is on her side.
- Players sign on to be mentored by Boxer, don't account for having to deal with his wife as part of the package
- Players get frustrated at Jessica's authority (possibly the perceived misuse of that authority) and start acting out against both of them
- Boxer is caught between a rock and a hard place and is so stressed out that he actually quits the team he founded
I read Boxer's bio and I regard him as an incredibly strong and incredibly ethical person, but he's never had someone along for the ride before. I was shocked beyond belief when I heard he'd quit his team. I could have seen him _dissolving_ the team, but not leaving it while someone else was in charge.
Something similar to this happened to the band Sepultura in the 90s, one of the most fucking ultimate metal acts of life. The lead singer's wife got involved in management of the band, and whether she was good at it or not, it created a lot of tension and voila, they split. gg
</theorycraft> And I'd buy a share of you for the $1000. I have a feeling that if it was strictly Boxer managing the team, a lot of this would not have happened. Not saying Jessica is a bad person or anything, just seems that her personality really clashes with the players' and creates unnecessary tension which snowballed into a lot of these events unfolding. Boxer leaving slayers basically was like removing the glue that held together the repelling ends of two magnets. Again, pure speculation.
Why thank you, sir. I'm actually planning on starting an esports team -- would you like to partner up with me on it?
... too soon?
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EPT
