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Bashing of any sort will result in temp bans. |
On October 20 2012 04:10 ragz_gt wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 03:58 lambac0re wrote:On October 20 2012 03:56 ragz_gt wrote:On October 20 2012 03:53 lambac0re wrote:On October 20 2012 03:48 ragz_gt wrote:On October 20 2012 03:39 lambac0re wrote:On October 20 2012 03:33 ragz_gt wrote:On October 20 2012 03:32 Zocat wrote:On October 20 2012 03:18 ragz_gt wrote:On October 20 2012 03:15 Shival wrote:
[quote]
That's pretty much the same. Maybe they were still busy behind the scenes when they lost all confidence, and thus disbanded. Then why did she make the decision to disband before going public? It might be able to save the team if she didn't end it already. And if it did not help, it's not like it can be any worse than it is now. What effect would going public pre disband have? She would piss off every head coach in ESF (so everyone in Korea). ESF which were able to pressure KeSPA enough to put in their players in GSL. While a public outrage would occur, nothing would change and she would have a shitton of people (the coaches) who dislike her. Good luck running a team when you pissed off the people even more than before. Going public automatically means disbanding SlayerS. Jessica is in a unique situation, since she doesnt rely on the SC2/Esport community as her line of work. She can piss off ESF without needing to fear repercussions. Players / managers / coaches dont have this luxury. Pissing off ESF for them means not having a career. So everyone is silent. She can disband the team right after if it didn't work. Not like it made it any worse. In my analysis, she disbanded not because of ESF bullying, but because the very core group of her team (MMA, Alicia, Crank) betrayed her, boxer, and boxer's dream which lead to Boxer's eventual transfer to Sk Telecom T1. I'm convinced that if this hadn't happened, Jessica wouldn't have disbanded the team and STILL revealed the ESF bullying afterwards. Maybe, but in your scenario she could revealed the bullying earlier and address player issues properly. And I disagree. If she had revealed the ESF incident publicly beforehand, then she would be making life very difficult for her players - MMA, Alicia Crank and others. They betrayed the team and left, Boxer left, what motivation does she have to keep the team going? Now that everything she was seeking to protect is gone, she can reveal the ESF incident without hesitation. That's exactly my problem. Her thought process was not to "solve the problem", but to "get even" or "great justice" or whatever it is that reveal ESF achieve now. That shows poor leadership. How do you know what her thought process was? What do you know of what she and boxer did behind the scenes to try and solve the problems? All we know right now it all fell apart at the end, and now that it fell apart, shit is going to hit the fan. You have no basis for claiming that Jessica didn't try and solve the problems behind the scenes. Whether her leadership was good or not...that is purely subjective as even a great leader can fail if all the cards are stacked against them. The point is that going public is a valid possibility as a solution, no matter how nuclear it was. Slayers never used it while it had some possibility of helping them. However they used it when it could not really helped them. So the logic is burning everything while it could possibly helped them, no matter how slim the chances = bad, burning everything after slayers is dead = acceptable. How does that make sense?
Simple, telling earlier could have potentially jeopardized their assets. If Jessica has proven anything, it's that she's extremely protective of her people. Telling now makes sense because she has nothing left to lose.
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On October 20 2012 04:10 ragz_gt wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 03:58 lambac0re wrote:On October 20 2012 03:56 ragz_gt wrote:On October 20 2012 03:53 lambac0re wrote:On October 20 2012 03:48 ragz_gt wrote:On October 20 2012 03:39 lambac0re wrote:On October 20 2012 03:33 ragz_gt wrote:On October 20 2012 03:32 Zocat wrote:On October 20 2012 03:18 ragz_gt wrote:On October 20 2012 03:15 Shival wrote:
[quote]
That's pretty much the same. Maybe they were still busy behind the scenes when they lost all confidence, and thus disbanded. Then why did she make the decision to disband before going public? It might be able to save the team if she didn't end it already. And if it did not help, it's not like it can be any worse than it is now. What effect would going public pre disband have? She would piss off every head coach in ESF (so everyone in Korea). ESF which were able to pressure KeSPA enough to put in their players in GSL. While a public outrage would occur, nothing would change and she would have a shitton of people (the coaches) who dislike her. Good luck running a team when you pissed off the people even more than before. Going public automatically means disbanding SlayerS. Jessica is in a unique situation, since she doesnt rely on the SC2/Esport community as her line of work. She can piss off ESF without needing to fear repercussions. Players / managers / coaches dont have this luxury. Pissing off ESF for them means not having a career. So everyone is silent. She can disband the team right after if it didn't work. Not like it made it any worse. In my analysis, she disbanded not because of ESF bullying, but because the very core group of her team (MMA, Alicia, Crank) betrayed her, boxer, and boxer's dream which lead to Boxer's eventual transfer to Sk Telecom T1. I'm convinced that if this hadn't happened, Jessica wouldn't have disbanded the team and STILL revealed the ESF bullying afterwards. Maybe, but in your scenario she could revealed the bullying earlier and address player issues properly. And I disagree. If she had revealed the ESF incident publicly beforehand, then she would be making life very difficult for her players - MMA, Alicia Crank and others. They betrayed the team and left, Boxer left, what motivation does she have to keep the team going? Now that everything she was seeking to protect is gone, she can reveal the ESF incident without hesitation. That's exactly my problem. Her thought process was not to "solve the problem", but to "get even" or "great justice" or whatever it is that reveal ESF achieve now. That shows poor leadership. How do you know what her thought process was? What do you know of what she and boxer did behind the scenes to try and solve the problems? All we know right now it all fell apart at the end, and now that it fell apart, shit is going to hit the fan. You have no basis for claiming that Jessica didn't try and solve the problems behind the scenes. Whether her leadership was good or not...that is purely subjective as even a great leader can fail if all the cards are stacked against them. The point is that going public is a valid possibility as a solution, no matter how nuclear it was. Slayers never used it while it had some possibility of helping them. However they used it when it could not really helped them. So the logic is burning everything while it could possibly helped them, no matter how slim the chances = bad, burning everything after slayers is dead = acceptable. How does that make sense? I never said she didn't try behind scene, I'm pretty sure she did. All I'm saying is that since they ended up blowing everything anyway, they should do it while it could possibly helped them survive as opposed to too late already.
She did the interview with TIG about one month ago, when they have not decided whether to disband the team. In that interview, she still had some kind of hope. TIG just never published that interview until now.
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On October 20 2012 04:10 ragz_gt wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 03:58 lambac0re wrote:On October 20 2012 03:56 ragz_gt wrote:On October 20 2012 03:53 lambac0re wrote:On October 20 2012 03:48 ragz_gt wrote:On October 20 2012 03:39 lambac0re wrote:On October 20 2012 03:33 ragz_gt wrote:On October 20 2012 03:32 Zocat wrote:On October 20 2012 03:18 ragz_gt wrote:On October 20 2012 03:15 Shival wrote:
[quote]
That's pretty much the same. Maybe they were still busy behind the scenes when they lost all confidence, and thus disbanded. Then why did she make the decision to disband before going public? It might be able to save the team if she didn't end it already. And if it did not help, it's not like it can be any worse than it is now. What effect would going public pre disband have? She would piss off every head coach in ESF (so everyone in Korea). ESF which were able to pressure KeSPA enough to put in their players in GSL. While a public outrage would occur, nothing would change and she would have a shitton of people (the coaches) who dislike her. Good luck running a team when you pissed off the people even more than before. Going public automatically means disbanding SlayerS. Jessica is in a unique situation, since she doesnt rely on the SC2/Esport community as her line of work. She can piss off ESF without needing to fear repercussions. Players / managers / coaches dont have this luxury. Pissing off ESF for them means not having a career. So everyone is silent. She can disband the team right after if it didn't work. Not like it made it any worse. In my analysis, she disbanded not because of ESF bullying, but because the very core group of her team (MMA, Alicia, Crank) betrayed her, boxer, and boxer's dream which lead to Boxer's eventual transfer to Sk Telecom T1. I'm convinced that if this hadn't happened, Jessica wouldn't have disbanded the team and STILL revealed the ESF bullying afterwards. Maybe, but in your scenario she could revealed the bullying earlier and address player issues properly. And I disagree. If she had revealed the ESF incident publicly beforehand, then she would be making life very difficult for her players - MMA, Alicia Crank and others. They betrayed the team and left, Boxer left, what motivation does she have to keep the team going? Now that everything she was seeking to protect is gone, she can reveal the ESF incident without hesitation. That's exactly my problem. Her thought process was not to "solve the problem", but to "get even" or "great justice" or whatever it is that reveal ESF achieve now. That shows poor leadership. How do you know what her thought process was? What do you know of what she and boxer did behind the scenes to try and solve the problems? All we know right now it all fell apart at the end, and now that it fell apart, shit is going to hit the fan. You have no basis for claiming that Jessica didn't try and solve the problems behind the scenes. Whether her leadership was good or not...that is purely subjective as even a great leader can fail if all the cards are stacked against them. The point is that going public is a valid possibility as a solution, no matter how nuclear it was. Slayers never used it while it had some possibility of helping them. However they used it when it could not really helped them. So the logic is burning everything while it could possibly helped them, no matter how slim the chances = bad, burning everything after slayers is dead = acceptable. How does that make sense? I never said she didn't try behind scene, I'm pretty sure she did. All I'm saying is that since they ended up blowing everything anyway, they should do it while it could possibly helped them survive as opposed to too late already.
Because it's justice? You reap what you sow and what not? I think it's entirely justifiable for Jessica to put this out in the open, BoxeR and she have been wronged by alot of people, do we expect her to keep it bottled up after those people ruined BoxeR's dream?
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On October 20 2012 04:15 Shival wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 04:10 ragz_gt wrote:On October 20 2012 03:58 lambac0re wrote:On October 20 2012 03:56 ragz_gt wrote:On October 20 2012 03:53 lambac0re wrote:On October 20 2012 03:48 ragz_gt wrote:On October 20 2012 03:39 lambac0re wrote:On October 20 2012 03:33 ragz_gt wrote:On October 20 2012 03:32 Zocat wrote:On October 20 2012 03:18 ragz_gt wrote:
[quote]
Then why did she make the decision to disband before going public? It might be able to save the team if she didn't end it already. And if it did not help, it's not like it can be any worse than it is now. What effect would going public pre disband have? She would piss off every head coach in ESF (so everyone in Korea). ESF which were able to pressure KeSPA enough to put in their players in GSL. While a public outrage would occur, nothing would change and she would have a shitton of people (the coaches) who dislike her. Good luck running a team when you pissed off the people even more than before. Going public automatically means disbanding SlayerS. Jessica is in a unique situation, since she doesnt rely on the SC2/Esport community as her line of work. She can piss off ESF without needing to fear repercussions. Players / managers / coaches dont have this luxury. Pissing off ESF for them means not having a career. So everyone is silent. She can disband the team right after if it didn't work. Not like it made it any worse. In my analysis, she disbanded not because of ESF bullying, but because the very core group of her team (MMA, Alicia, Crank) betrayed her, boxer, and boxer's dream which lead to Boxer's eventual transfer to Sk Telecom T1. I'm convinced that if this hadn't happened, Jessica wouldn't have disbanded the team and STILL revealed the ESF bullying afterwards. Maybe, but in your scenario she could revealed the bullying earlier and address player issues properly. And I disagree. If she had revealed the ESF incident publicly beforehand, then she would be making life very difficult for her players - MMA, Alicia Crank and others. They betrayed the team and left, Boxer left, what motivation does she have to keep the team going? Now that everything she was seeking to protect is gone, she can reveal the ESF incident without hesitation. That's exactly my problem. Her thought process was not to "solve the problem", but to "get even" or "great justice" or whatever it is that reveal ESF achieve now. That shows poor leadership. How do you know what her thought process was? What do you know of what she and boxer did behind the scenes to try and solve the problems? All we know right now it all fell apart at the end, and now that it fell apart, shit is going to hit the fan. You have no basis for claiming that Jessica didn't try and solve the problems behind the scenes. Whether her leadership was good or not...that is purely subjective as even a great leader can fail if all the cards are stacked against them. The point is that going public is a valid possibility as a solution, no matter how nuclear it was. Slayers never used it while it had some possibility of helping them. However they used it when it could not really helped them. So the logic is burning everything while it could possibly helped them, no matter how slim the chances = bad, burning everything after slayers is dead = acceptable. How does that make sense? I never said she didn't try behind scene, I'm pretty sure she did. All I'm saying is that since they ended up blowing everything anyway, they should do it while it could possibly helped them survive as opposed to too late already. Because it's justice? You reap what you sow and what not? I think it's entirely justifiable for Jessica to put this out in the open, BoxeR and she have been wronged by alot of people, do we expect her to keep it bottled up after those people ruined BoxeR's dream?
I'm perfectly fine with they go public. I just want them to do it earlier when it could possibly helped the team (like FXO did before).
What I'm not fine with is they go public with player problems. No respectable organization should throw own people under a bus like that no matter what difficulties they run into.
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On October 20 2012 04:15 Shival wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 04:10 ragz_gt wrote:On October 20 2012 03:58 lambac0re wrote:On October 20 2012 03:56 ragz_gt wrote:On October 20 2012 03:53 lambac0re wrote:On October 20 2012 03:48 ragz_gt wrote:On October 20 2012 03:39 lambac0re wrote:On October 20 2012 03:33 ragz_gt wrote:On October 20 2012 03:32 Zocat wrote:On October 20 2012 03:18 ragz_gt wrote:
[quote]
Then why did she make the decision to disband before going public? It might be able to save the team if she didn't end it already. And if it did not help, it's not like it can be any worse than it is now. What effect would going public pre disband have? She would piss off every head coach in ESF (so everyone in Korea). ESF which were able to pressure KeSPA enough to put in their players in GSL. While a public outrage would occur, nothing would change and she would have a shitton of people (the coaches) who dislike her. Good luck running a team when you pissed off the people even more than before. Going public automatically means disbanding SlayerS. Jessica is in a unique situation, since she doesnt rely on the SC2/Esport community as her line of work. She can piss off ESF without needing to fear repercussions. Players / managers / coaches dont have this luxury. Pissing off ESF for them means not having a career. So everyone is silent. She can disband the team right after if it didn't work. Not like it made it any worse. In my analysis, she disbanded not because of ESF bullying, but because the very core group of her team (MMA, Alicia, Crank) betrayed her, boxer, and boxer's dream which lead to Boxer's eventual transfer to Sk Telecom T1. I'm convinced that if this hadn't happened, Jessica wouldn't have disbanded the team and STILL revealed the ESF bullying afterwards. Maybe, but in your scenario she could revealed the bullying earlier and address player issues properly. And I disagree. If she had revealed the ESF incident publicly beforehand, then she would be making life very difficult for her players - MMA, Alicia Crank and others. They betrayed the team and left, Boxer left, what motivation does she have to keep the team going? Now that everything she was seeking to protect is gone, she can reveal the ESF incident without hesitation. That's exactly my problem. Her thought process was not to "solve the problem", but to "get even" or "great justice" or whatever it is that reveal ESF achieve now. That shows poor leadership. How do you know what her thought process was? What do you know of what she and boxer did behind the scenes to try and solve the problems? All we know right now it all fell apart at the end, and now that it fell apart, shit is going to hit the fan. You have no basis for claiming that Jessica didn't try and solve the problems behind the scenes. Whether her leadership was good or not...that is purely subjective as even a great leader can fail if all the cards are stacked against them. The point is that going public is a valid possibility as a solution, no matter how nuclear it was. Slayers never used it while it had some possibility of helping them. However they used it when it could not really helped them. So the logic is burning everything while it could possibly helped them, no matter how slim the chances = bad, burning everything after slayers is dead = acceptable. How does that make sense? I never said she didn't try behind scene, I'm pretty sure she did. All I'm saying is that since they ended up blowing everything anyway, they should do it while it could possibly helped them survive as opposed to too late already. Because it's justice? You reap what you sow and what not? I think it's entirely justifiable for Jessica to put this out in the open, BoxeR and she have been wronged by alot of people, do we expect her to keep it bottled up after those people ruined BoxeR's dream?
Precisely. She's got a lot on her chest and probably heartbroken/angry as hell. And Boxer's more sad than angry, so Jessica is the one dishing out the dirt. And plus, Jessica always has the indirect support of Boxer's name which lends a lot of weight in all of this. If she wasn't Boxer's gf/fiancee then I doubt she'd be able to be this open/aggressive.
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On October 20 2012 04:19 ragz_gt wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 04:15 Shival wrote:On October 20 2012 04:10 ragz_gt wrote:On October 20 2012 03:58 lambac0re wrote:On October 20 2012 03:56 ragz_gt wrote:On October 20 2012 03:53 lambac0re wrote:On October 20 2012 03:48 ragz_gt wrote:On October 20 2012 03:39 lambac0re wrote:On October 20 2012 03:33 ragz_gt wrote:On October 20 2012 03:32 Zocat wrote:
[quote]
What effect would going public pre disband have? She would piss off every head coach in ESF (so everyone in Korea).
ESF which were able to pressure KeSPA enough to put in their players in GSL.
While a public outrage would occur, nothing would change and she would have a shitton of people (the coaches) who dislike her. Good luck running a team when you pissed off the people even more than before.
Going public automatically means disbanding SlayerS.
Jessica is in a unique situation, since she doesnt rely on the SC2/Esport community as her line of work. She can piss off ESF without needing to fear repercussions. Players / managers / coaches dont have this luxury. Pissing off ESF for them means not having a career. So everyone is silent. She can disband the team right after if it didn't work. Not like it made it any worse. In my analysis, she disbanded not because of ESF bullying, but because the very core group of her team (MMA, Alicia, Crank) betrayed her, boxer, and boxer's dream which lead to Boxer's eventual transfer to Sk Telecom T1. I'm convinced that if this hadn't happened, Jessica wouldn't have disbanded the team and STILL revealed the ESF bullying afterwards. Maybe, but in your scenario she could revealed the bullying earlier and address player issues properly. And I disagree. If she had revealed the ESF incident publicly beforehand, then she would be making life very difficult for her players - MMA, Alicia Crank and others. They betrayed the team and left, Boxer left, what motivation does she have to keep the team going? Now that everything she was seeking to protect is gone, she can reveal the ESF incident without hesitation. That's exactly my problem. Her thought process was not to "solve the problem", but to "get even" or "great justice" or whatever it is that reveal ESF achieve now. That shows poor leadership. How do you know what her thought process was? What do you know of what she and boxer did behind the scenes to try and solve the problems? All we know right now it all fell apart at the end, and now that it fell apart, shit is going to hit the fan. You have no basis for claiming that Jessica didn't try and solve the problems behind the scenes. Whether her leadership was good or not...that is purely subjective as even a great leader can fail if all the cards are stacked against them. The point is that going public is a valid possibility as a solution, no matter how nuclear it was. Slayers never used it while it had some possibility of helping them. However they used it when it could not really helped them. So the logic is burning everything while it could possibly helped them, no matter how slim the chances = bad, burning everything after slayers is dead = acceptable. How does that make sense? I never said she didn't try behind scene, I'm pretty sure she did. All I'm saying is that since they ended up blowing everything anyway, they should do it while it could possibly helped them survive as opposed to too late already. Because it's justice? You reap what you sow and what not? I think it's entirely justifiable for Jessica to put this out in the open, BoxeR and she have been wronged by alot of people, do we expect her to keep it bottled up after those people ruined BoxeR's dream? I'm perfectly fine with they go public. I just want them to do it earlier when it could possibly helped the team (like FXO did before).
We've had more than a couple of posts made already explaining why they haven't brought it out earlier. Can't be bothered to keep explaining.
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On October 20 2012 04:20 Shival wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 04:19 ragz_gt wrote:On October 20 2012 04:15 Shival wrote:On October 20 2012 04:10 ragz_gt wrote:On October 20 2012 03:58 lambac0re wrote:On October 20 2012 03:56 ragz_gt wrote:On October 20 2012 03:53 lambac0re wrote:On October 20 2012 03:48 ragz_gt wrote:On October 20 2012 03:39 lambac0re wrote:On October 20 2012 03:33 ragz_gt wrote:
[quote]
She can disband the team right after if it didn't work. Not like it made it any worse. In my analysis, she disbanded not because of ESF bullying, but because the very core group of her team (MMA, Alicia, Crank) betrayed her, boxer, and boxer's dream which lead to Boxer's eventual transfer to Sk Telecom T1. I'm convinced that if this hadn't happened, Jessica wouldn't have disbanded the team and STILL revealed the ESF bullying afterwards. Maybe, but in your scenario she could revealed the bullying earlier and address player issues properly. And I disagree. If she had revealed the ESF incident publicly beforehand, then she would be making life very difficult for her players - MMA, Alicia Crank and others. They betrayed the team and left, Boxer left, what motivation does she have to keep the team going? Now that everything she was seeking to protect is gone, she can reveal the ESF incident without hesitation. That's exactly my problem. Her thought process was not to "solve the problem", but to "get even" or "great justice" or whatever it is that reveal ESF achieve now. That shows poor leadership. How do you know what her thought process was? What do you know of what she and boxer did behind the scenes to try and solve the problems? All we know right now it all fell apart at the end, and now that it fell apart, shit is going to hit the fan. You have no basis for claiming that Jessica didn't try and solve the problems behind the scenes. Whether her leadership was good or not...that is purely subjective as even a great leader can fail if all the cards are stacked against them. The point is that going public is a valid possibility as a solution, no matter how nuclear it was. Slayers never used it while it had some possibility of helping them. However they used it when it could not really helped them. So the logic is burning everything while it could possibly helped them, no matter how slim the chances = bad, burning everything after slayers is dead = acceptable. How does that make sense? I never said she didn't try behind scene, I'm pretty sure she did. All I'm saying is that since they ended up blowing everything anyway, they should do it while it could possibly helped them survive as opposed to too late already. Because it's justice? You reap what you sow and what not? I think it's entirely justifiable for Jessica to put this out in the open, BoxeR and she have been wronged by alot of people, do we expect her to keep it bottled up after those people ruined BoxeR's dream? I'm perfectly fine with they go public. I just want them to do it earlier when it could possibly helped the team (like FXO did before). We've had more than a couple of posts made already explaining why they haven't brought it out earlier. Can't be bothered to keep explaining.
Because that worked out so well for them right? None of the consequences they explained is as bad as what they are in now, which is nothing.
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On October 20 2012 04:19 ragz_gt wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 04:15 Shival wrote:On October 20 2012 04:10 ragz_gt wrote:On October 20 2012 03:58 lambac0re wrote:On October 20 2012 03:56 ragz_gt wrote:On October 20 2012 03:53 lambac0re wrote:On October 20 2012 03:48 ragz_gt wrote:On October 20 2012 03:39 lambac0re wrote:On October 20 2012 03:33 ragz_gt wrote:On October 20 2012 03:32 Zocat wrote:
[quote]
What effect would going public pre disband have? She would piss off every head coach in ESF (so everyone in Korea).
ESF which were able to pressure KeSPA enough to put in their players in GSL.
While a public outrage would occur, nothing would change and she would have a shitton of people (the coaches) who dislike her. Good luck running a team when you pissed off the people even more than before.
Going public automatically means disbanding SlayerS.
Jessica is in a unique situation, since she doesnt rely on the SC2/Esport community as her line of work. She can piss off ESF without needing to fear repercussions. Players / managers / coaches dont have this luxury. Pissing off ESF for them means not having a career. So everyone is silent. She can disband the team right after if it didn't work. Not like it made it any worse. In my analysis, she disbanded not because of ESF bullying, but because the very core group of her team (MMA, Alicia, Crank) betrayed her, boxer, and boxer's dream which lead to Boxer's eventual transfer to Sk Telecom T1. I'm convinced that if this hadn't happened, Jessica wouldn't have disbanded the team and STILL revealed the ESF bullying afterwards. Maybe, but in your scenario she could revealed the bullying earlier and address player issues properly. And I disagree. If she had revealed the ESF incident publicly beforehand, then she would be making life very difficult for her players - MMA, Alicia Crank and others. They betrayed the team and left, Boxer left, what motivation does she have to keep the team going? Now that everything she was seeking to protect is gone, she can reveal the ESF incident without hesitation. That's exactly my problem. Her thought process was not to "solve the problem", but to "get even" or "great justice" or whatever it is that reveal ESF achieve now. That shows poor leadership. How do you know what her thought process was? What do you know of what she and boxer did behind the scenes to try and solve the problems? All we know right now it all fell apart at the end, and now that it fell apart, shit is going to hit the fan. You have no basis for claiming that Jessica didn't try and solve the problems behind the scenes. Whether her leadership was good or not...that is purely subjective as even a great leader can fail if all the cards are stacked against them. The point is that going public is a valid possibility as a solution, no matter how nuclear it was. Slayers never used it while it had some possibility of helping them. However they used it when it could not really helped them. So the logic is burning everything while it could possibly helped them, no matter how slim the chances = bad, burning everything after slayers is dead = acceptable. How does that make sense? I never said she didn't try behind scene, I'm pretty sure she did. All I'm saying is that since they ended up blowing everything anyway, they should do it while it could possibly helped them survive as opposed to too late already. Because it's justice? You reap what you sow and what not? I think it's entirely justifiable for Jessica to put this out in the open, BoxeR and she have been wronged by alot of people, do we expect her to keep it bottled up after those people ruined BoxeR's dream? I'm perfectly fine with they go public. I just want them to do it earlier when it could possibly helped the team (like FXO did before). What I'm not fine with is they go public with player problems. No respectable organization should throw own people under a bus like that no matter what difficulties they run into. she tried but media wouldnt publish it
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On October 20 2012 04:20 farnham wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 04:19 ragz_gt wrote:On October 20 2012 04:15 Shival wrote:On October 20 2012 04:10 ragz_gt wrote:On October 20 2012 03:58 lambac0re wrote:On October 20 2012 03:56 ragz_gt wrote:On October 20 2012 03:53 lambac0re wrote:On October 20 2012 03:48 ragz_gt wrote:On October 20 2012 03:39 lambac0re wrote:On October 20 2012 03:33 ragz_gt wrote:
[quote]
She can disband the team right after if it didn't work. Not like it made it any worse. In my analysis, she disbanded not because of ESF bullying, but because the very core group of her team (MMA, Alicia, Crank) betrayed her, boxer, and boxer's dream which lead to Boxer's eventual transfer to Sk Telecom T1. I'm convinced that if this hadn't happened, Jessica wouldn't have disbanded the team and STILL revealed the ESF bullying afterwards. Maybe, but in your scenario she could revealed the bullying earlier and address player issues properly. And I disagree. If she had revealed the ESF incident publicly beforehand, then she would be making life very difficult for her players - MMA, Alicia Crank and others. They betrayed the team and left, Boxer left, what motivation does she have to keep the team going? Now that everything she was seeking to protect is gone, she can reveal the ESF incident without hesitation. That's exactly my problem. Her thought process was not to "solve the problem", but to "get even" or "great justice" or whatever it is that reveal ESF achieve now. That shows poor leadership. How do you know what her thought process was? What do you know of what she and boxer did behind the scenes to try and solve the problems? All we know right now it all fell apart at the end, and now that it fell apart, shit is going to hit the fan. You have no basis for claiming that Jessica didn't try and solve the problems behind the scenes. Whether her leadership was good or not...that is purely subjective as even a great leader can fail if all the cards are stacked against them. The point is that going public is a valid possibility as a solution, no matter how nuclear it was. Slayers never used it while it had some possibility of helping them. However they used it when it could not really helped them. So the logic is burning everything while it could possibly helped them, no matter how slim the chances = bad, burning everything after slayers is dead = acceptable. How does that make sense? I never said she didn't try behind scene, I'm pretty sure she did. All I'm saying is that since they ended up blowing everything anyway, they should do it while it could possibly helped them survive as opposed to too late already. Because it's justice? You reap what you sow and what not? I think it's entirely justifiable for Jessica to put this out in the open, BoxeR and she have been wronged by alot of people, do we expect her to keep it bottled up after those people ruined BoxeR's dream? I'm perfectly fine with they go public. I just want them to do it earlier when it could possibly helped the team (like FXO did before). What I'm not fine with is they go public with player problems. No respectable organization should throw own people under a bus like that no matter what difficulties they run into. she tried but media wouldnt publish it
That's just silly. She could send it to Fomos, or KeSPA I'm sure they'd be happy to publish it. Or do exactly what she did a couple days ago without disbanding team part. And do it before they lost their passion.
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On October 20 2012 04:20 ragz_gt wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 04:20 Shival wrote:On October 20 2012 04:19 ragz_gt wrote:On October 20 2012 04:15 Shival wrote:On October 20 2012 04:10 ragz_gt wrote:On October 20 2012 03:58 lambac0re wrote:On October 20 2012 03:56 ragz_gt wrote:On October 20 2012 03:53 lambac0re wrote:On October 20 2012 03:48 ragz_gt wrote:On October 20 2012 03:39 lambac0re wrote:
[quote]
In my analysis, she disbanded not because of ESF bullying, but because the very core group of her team (MMA, Alicia, Crank) betrayed her, boxer, and boxer's dream which lead to Boxer's eventual transfer to Sk Telecom T1. I'm convinced that if this hadn't happened, Jessica wouldn't have disbanded the team and STILL revealed the ESF bullying afterwards. Maybe, but in your scenario she could revealed the bullying earlier and address player issues properly. And I disagree. If she had revealed the ESF incident publicly beforehand, then she would be making life very difficult for her players - MMA, Alicia Crank and others. They betrayed the team and left, Boxer left, what motivation does she have to keep the team going? Now that everything she was seeking to protect is gone, she can reveal the ESF incident without hesitation. That's exactly my problem. Her thought process was not to "solve the problem", but to "get even" or "great justice" or whatever it is that reveal ESF achieve now. That shows poor leadership. How do you know what her thought process was? What do you know of what she and boxer did behind the scenes to try and solve the problems? All we know right now it all fell apart at the end, and now that it fell apart, shit is going to hit the fan. You have no basis for claiming that Jessica didn't try and solve the problems behind the scenes. Whether her leadership was good or not...that is purely subjective as even a great leader can fail if all the cards are stacked against them. The point is that going public is a valid possibility as a solution, no matter how nuclear it was. Slayers never used it while it had some possibility of helping them. However they used it when it could not really helped them. So the logic is burning everything while it could possibly helped them, no matter how slim the chances = bad, burning everything after slayers is dead = acceptable. How does that make sense? I never said she didn't try behind scene, I'm pretty sure she did. All I'm saying is that since they ended up blowing everything anyway, they should do it while it could possibly helped them survive as opposed to too late already. Because it's justice? You reap what you sow and what not? I think it's entirely justifiable for Jessica to put this out in the open, BoxeR and she have been wronged by alot of people, do we expect her to keep it bottled up after those people ruined BoxeR's dream? I'm perfectly fine with they go public. I just want them to do it earlier when it could possibly helped the team (like FXO did before). We've had more than a couple of posts made already explaining why they haven't brought it out earlier. Can't be bothered to keep explaining. Because that worked out so well for them right? None of the consequences they explained is as bad as what they are in now, which is nothing.
Hindsight is always twenty-twenty. Either way, I still think it was the best choice regardless.
Also, I would not say that the situation that they are in now is nothing. Kim Ka-Yeon and Lim Yo-Hwan are both doing fine for themselves I bet. Her acting career and his head coach status at SKT, I'm sure that time will prove them wise.
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On October 20 2012 04:23 Shival wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 04:20 ragz_gt wrote:On October 20 2012 04:20 Shival wrote:On October 20 2012 04:19 ragz_gt wrote:On October 20 2012 04:15 Shival wrote:On October 20 2012 04:10 ragz_gt wrote:On October 20 2012 03:58 lambac0re wrote:On October 20 2012 03:56 ragz_gt wrote:On October 20 2012 03:53 lambac0re wrote:On October 20 2012 03:48 ragz_gt wrote:
[quote]
Maybe, but in your scenario she could revealed the bullying earlier and address player issues properly. And I disagree. If she had revealed the ESF incident publicly beforehand, then she would be making life very difficult for her players - MMA, Alicia Crank and others. They betrayed the team and left, Boxer left, what motivation does she have to keep the team going? Now that everything she was seeking to protect is gone, she can reveal the ESF incident without hesitation. That's exactly my problem. Her thought process was not to "solve the problem", but to "get even" or "great justice" or whatever it is that reveal ESF achieve now. That shows poor leadership. How do you know what her thought process was? What do you know of what she and boxer did behind the scenes to try and solve the problems? All we know right now it all fell apart at the end, and now that it fell apart, shit is going to hit the fan. You have no basis for claiming that Jessica didn't try and solve the problems behind the scenes. Whether her leadership was good or not...that is purely subjective as even a great leader can fail if all the cards are stacked against them. The point is that going public is a valid possibility as a solution, no matter how nuclear it was. Slayers never used it while it had some possibility of helping them. However they used it when it could not really helped them. So the logic is burning everything while it could possibly helped them, no matter how slim the chances = bad, burning everything after slayers is dead = acceptable. How does that make sense? I never said she didn't try behind scene, I'm pretty sure she did. All I'm saying is that since they ended up blowing everything anyway, they should do it while it could possibly helped them survive as opposed to too late already. Because it's justice? You reap what you sow and what not? I think it's entirely justifiable for Jessica to put this out in the open, BoxeR and she have been wronged by alot of people, do we expect her to keep it bottled up after those people ruined BoxeR's dream? I'm perfectly fine with they go public. I just want them to do it earlier when it could possibly helped the team (like FXO did before). We've had more than a couple of posts made already explaining why they haven't brought it out earlier. Can't be bothered to keep explaining. Because that worked out so well for them right? None of the consequences they explained is as bad as what they are in now, which is nothing. Hindsight is always twenty-twenty. Either way, I still think it was the best choice regardless.
That's true but there is literally nothing worse than the position they are in now as a team. So it makes sense to do any thing possible, no matter how possibly destructive, before it comes to this point. I agree it's easier said than done, but that's what leadership and negotiation skills are for.
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On October 20 2012 04:27 ragz_gt wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 04:23 Shival wrote:On October 20 2012 04:20 ragz_gt wrote:On October 20 2012 04:20 Shival wrote:On October 20 2012 04:19 ragz_gt wrote:On October 20 2012 04:15 Shival wrote:On October 20 2012 04:10 ragz_gt wrote:On October 20 2012 03:58 lambac0re wrote:On October 20 2012 03:56 ragz_gt wrote:On October 20 2012 03:53 lambac0re wrote:
[quote]
And I disagree. If she had revealed the ESF incident publicly beforehand, then she would be making life very difficult for her players - MMA, Alicia Crank and others. They betrayed the team and left, Boxer left, what motivation does she have to keep the team going? Now that everything she was seeking to protect is gone, she can reveal the ESF incident without hesitation. That's exactly my problem. Her thought process was not to "solve the problem", but to "get even" or "great justice" or whatever it is that reveal ESF achieve now. That shows poor leadership. How do you know what her thought process was? What do you know of what she and boxer did behind the scenes to try and solve the problems? All we know right now it all fell apart at the end, and now that it fell apart, shit is going to hit the fan. You have no basis for claiming that Jessica didn't try and solve the problems behind the scenes. Whether her leadership was good or not...that is purely subjective as even a great leader can fail if all the cards are stacked against them. The point is that going public is a valid possibility as a solution, no matter how nuclear it was. Slayers never used it while it had some possibility of helping them. However they used it when it could not really helped them. So the logic is burning everything while it could possibly helped them, no matter how slim the chances = bad, burning everything after slayers is dead = acceptable. How does that make sense? I never said she didn't try behind scene, I'm pretty sure she did. All I'm saying is that since they ended up blowing everything anyway, they should do it while it could possibly helped them survive as opposed to too late already. Because it's justice? You reap what you sow and what not? I think it's entirely justifiable for Jessica to put this out in the open, BoxeR and she have been wronged by alot of people, do we expect her to keep it bottled up after those people ruined BoxeR's dream? I'm perfectly fine with they go public. I just want them to do it earlier when it could possibly helped the team (like FXO did before). We've had more than a couple of posts made already explaining why they haven't brought it out earlier. Can't be bothered to keep explaining. Because that worked out so well for them right? None of the consequences they explained is as bad as what they are in now, which is nothing. Hindsight is always twenty-twenty. Either way, I still think it was the best choice regardless. That's true but there is literally nothing worse than the position they are in now as a team. So it makes sense to do any thing possible, no matter how possibly destructive, before it comes to this point. I agree it's easier said than done, but that's what leadership and negotiation skills are for.
What I'm trying to say is that, there was no reason to believe that going through private channels would yield a lesser result than going public with it at the earlier stages of the crises. Thus they chose for the better choice at the time, which in the end showed it wasn't enough. Choosing the other option, of going public earlier would've shown incapability and unwillingness of negotiation with ESF on Jessica's part. Which in my opinion would've been alot worse. Hence, I think Jessica chose the correct road.
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On October 20 2012 04:27 ragz_gt wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 04:23 Shival wrote:On October 20 2012 04:20 ragz_gt wrote:On October 20 2012 04:20 Shival wrote:On October 20 2012 04:19 ragz_gt wrote:On October 20 2012 04:15 Shival wrote:On October 20 2012 04:10 ragz_gt wrote:On October 20 2012 03:58 lambac0re wrote:On October 20 2012 03:56 ragz_gt wrote:On October 20 2012 03:53 lambac0re wrote:
[quote]
And I disagree. If she had revealed the ESF incident publicly beforehand, then she would be making life very difficult for her players - MMA, Alicia Crank and others. They betrayed the team and left, Boxer left, what motivation does she have to keep the team going? Now that everything she was seeking to protect is gone, she can reveal the ESF incident without hesitation. That's exactly my problem. Her thought process was not to "solve the problem", but to "get even" or "great justice" or whatever it is that reveal ESF achieve now. That shows poor leadership. How do you know what her thought process was? What do you know of what she and boxer did behind the scenes to try and solve the problems? All we know right now it all fell apart at the end, and now that it fell apart, shit is going to hit the fan. You have no basis for claiming that Jessica didn't try and solve the problems behind the scenes. Whether her leadership was good or not...that is purely subjective as even a great leader can fail if all the cards are stacked against them. The point is that going public is a valid possibility as a solution, no matter how nuclear it was. Slayers never used it while it had some possibility of helping them. However they used it when it could not really helped them. So the logic is burning everything while it could possibly helped them, no matter how slim the chances = bad, burning everything after slayers is dead = acceptable. How does that make sense? I never said she didn't try behind scene, I'm pretty sure she did. All I'm saying is that since they ended up blowing everything anyway, they should do it while it could possibly helped them survive as opposed to too late already. Because it's justice? You reap what you sow and what not? I think it's entirely justifiable for Jessica to put this out in the open, BoxeR and she have been wronged by alot of people, do we expect her to keep it bottled up after those people ruined BoxeR's dream? I'm perfectly fine with they go public. I just want them to do it earlier when it could possibly helped the team (like FXO did before). We've had more than a couple of posts made already explaining why they haven't brought it out earlier. Can't be bothered to keep explaining. Because that worked out so well for them right? None of the consequences they explained is as bad as what they are in now, which is nothing. Hindsight is always twenty-twenty. Either way, I still think it was the best choice regardless. That's true but there is literally nothing worse than the position they are in now as a team. So it makes sense to do any thing possible, no matter how possibly destructive, before it comes to this point. I agree it's easier said than done, but that's what leadership and negotiation skills are for.
They put their own time and money into this team. If they're not happy with the way things are, why shouldn't they be allowed to disband the team?
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Cellaaaaaa, Ryuuuung, Nooooooooooo
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On October 20 2012 04:34 johnjackson000 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 04:27 ragz_gt wrote:On October 20 2012 04:23 Shival wrote:On October 20 2012 04:20 ragz_gt wrote:On October 20 2012 04:20 Shival wrote:On October 20 2012 04:19 ragz_gt wrote:On October 20 2012 04:15 Shival wrote:On October 20 2012 04:10 ragz_gt wrote:On October 20 2012 03:58 lambac0re wrote:On October 20 2012 03:56 ragz_gt wrote:
[quote]
That's exactly my problem. Her thought process was not to "solve the problem", but to "get even" or "great justice" or whatever it is that reveal ESF achieve now. That shows poor leadership.
How do you know what her thought process was? What do you know of what she and boxer did behind the scenes to try and solve the problems? All we know right now it all fell apart at the end, and now that it fell apart, shit is going to hit the fan. You have no basis for claiming that Jessica didn't try and solve the problems behind the scenes. Whether her leadership was good or not...that is purely subjective as even a great leader can fail if all the cards are stacked against them. The point is that going public is a valid possibility as a solution, no matter how nuclear it was. Slayers never used it while it had some possibility of helping them. However they used it when it could not really helped them. So the logic is burning everything while it could possibly helped them, no matter how slim the chances = bad, burning everything after slayers is dead = acceptable. How does that make sense? I never said she didn't try behind scene, I'm pretty sure she did. All I'm saying is that since they ended up blowing everything anyway, they should do it while it could possibly helped them survive as opposed to too late already. Because it's justice? You reap what you sow and what not? I think it's entirely justifiable for Jessica to put this out in the open, BoxeR and she have been wronged by alot of people, do we expect her to keep it bottled up after those people ruined BoxeR's dream? I'm perfectly fine with they go public. I just want them to do it earlier when it could possibly helped the team (like FXO did before). We've had more than a couple of posts made already explaining why they haven't brought it out earlier. Can't be bothered to keep explaining. Because that worked out so well for them right? None of the consequences they explained is as bad as what they are in now, which is nothing. Hindsight is always twenty-twenty. Either way, I still think it was the best choice regardless. That's true but there is literally nothing worse than the position they are in now as a team. So it makes sense to do any thing possible, no matter how possibly destructive, before it comes to this point. I agree it's easier said than done, but that's what leadership and negotiation skills are for. They put their own time and money into this team. If they're not happy with the way things are, why shouldn't they be allowed to disband the team?
The assumption is that they were trying to save the team at least at some point. If they just want to disband it, then they can do that anytime they want.
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Only you're assuming they didn't try hard enough to save the team. Honestly no 3rd party knows enough to make that judgement.
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A team had to be sacrificed to make this known. It seems the ESF was far too powerful for anyone to single-handedly step forward and bring a change. In some sense, only losing a team like Slayers would have made this possible. Such a sad reality
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On October 20 2012 02:11 Jaedong4thOSL wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 02:09 Ghostbone wrote:On October 20 2012 01:46 farnham wrote:On October 20 2012 01:44 Ghostbone wrote:On October 20 2012 01:37 quannguyen wrote:On October 20 2012 01:34 Necro)Phagist( wrote:On October 20 2012 01:29 farnham wrote:On October 20 2012 01:19 Necro)Phagist( wrote:On October 20 2012 01:16 farnham wrote:On October 20 2012 01:13 Necro)Phagist( wrote:
[quote]
??? He apologized for it??? I thought just on the last page they translated his tweets where he explained everything, quote taking out of context etc.?? you dont say shibalnom to a friend It depends on what kind of friend.... I don't know exactly what it means in Korea. But I say some extremely nasty as fuck things to my friends all the time. Shibalnom comes from NiAemi Shibhal Ni AeMi means your mom Shib means vagna Shibhal means f the vagina since TL believes raping a 14 year old girl is a joke.. that qualifies as a joke as well i guess Any one who thinks basically a your momma insult(Though dirtier) is something to get upset about is either 10 or entirely to serious -.- You certainly don't know enough about Asian culture. We takes jokes about family members very seriously, and this type of jokes is the worst. They can easily turn friends into enemies (in my country it is) Seriously... In Chile we said worse things than that to friends, and we just laugh, take a beer and we just still trash talking each other... xD great that you can do so in chile... we are talking about koreans here. I tried explain that in others countries and cultures, isn't offensive to talk with friends like that... maybe in another culture this kind of things deserves death sentence. ps: I know the topic is about Koreans, don't need to clarify that  Believe me, in east asian, China, Korea, Japan, Taiwan, this kind of thing is very very bad even between very close friends.
No... There are stuffy, proper people and then there are more blue-collar, rough-around-the-edges kind of people. This is true in every country, including Korea. I'm Korean, and I know a lot of a fobs straight from Korea that absolutely love saying "shibal" and "shibalnom" all the time. It's just like in the US where there are people that love to curse and use "fuck" and "fucking" as a catch-all word to describe all situations. And of course, here in the US, there are people that curse very rarely and would feel offended by profanity.
It's naive to think this broad spectrum of people doesn't exist in every country, even in more conservative cultures like those in Asia.
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On October 20 2012 05:56 redemption wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 02:11 Jaedong4thOSL wrote:On October 20 2012 02:09 Ghostbone wrote:On October 20 2012 01:46 farnham wrote:On October 20 2012 01:44 Ghostbone wrote:On October 20 2012 01:37 quannguyen wrote:On October 20 2012 01:34 Necro)Phagist( wrote:On October 20 2012 01:29 farnham wrote:On October 20 2012 01:19 Necro)Phagist( wrote:On October 20 2012 01:16 farnham wrote:
[quote]
you dont say shibalnom to a friend It depends on what kind of friend.... I don't know exactly what it means in Korea. But I say some extremely nasty as fuck things to my friends all the time. Shibalnom comes from NiAemi Shibhal Ni AeMi means your mom Shib means vagna Shibhal means f the vagina since TL believes raping a 14 year old girl is a joke.. that qualifies as a joke as well i guess Any one who thinks basically a your momma insult(Though dirtier) is something to get upset about is either 10 or entirely to serious -.- You certainly don't know enough about Asian culture. We takes jokes about family members very seriously, and this type of jokes is the worst. They can easily turn friends into enemies (in my country it is) Seriously... In Chile we said worse things than that to friends, and we just laugh, take a beer and we just still trash talking each other... xD great that you can do so in chile... we are talking about koreans here. I tried explain that in others countries and cultures, isn't offensive to talk with friends like that... maybe in another culture this kind of things deserves death sentence. ps: I know the topic is about Koreans, don't need to clarify that Believe me, in east asian, China, Korea, Japan, Taiwan, this kind of thing is very very bad even between very close friends. No... There are stuffy, proper people and then there are more blue-collar, rough-around-the-edges kind of people. This is true in every country, including Korea. I'm Korean, and I know a lot of a fobs straight from Korea that absolutely love saying "shibal" and "shibalnom" all the time. It's just like in the US where there are people that love to curse and use "fuck" and "fucking" as a catch-all word to describe all situations. And of course, here in the US, there are people that curse very rarely and would feel offended by profanity. It's naive to think this broad spectrum of people doesn't exist in every country, even in more conservative cultures like those in Asia.
The combined spectrum of both cultures is different though. Thus in Asia it's more likely to be frowned upon than in Europe or US.
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EPT
