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Bashing of any sort will result in temp bans. |
On October 20 2012 03:18 ragz_gt wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 03:15 Shival wrote:On October 20 2012 03:13 ragz_gt wrote:On October 20 2012 03:11 Shival wrote:On October 20 2012 03:07 ragz_gt wrote:On October 20 2012 03:05 Shival wrote:On October 20 2012 03:01 HolydaKing wrote:On October 20 2012 02:57 Shival wrote:On October 20 2012 02:56 HolydaKing wrote:On October 20 2012 02:54 farnham wrote:
[quote]
i remember him being on STOG and stressign that FOU is not FXO Korea but the Korean Division of FXO
choya is his subordinate
either he is a bad manager that has no control over his korean division or he is lying
whichever it is it doesnt make him look good isn't he just the investor? and such the heart of the team? maybe i'm wrong. also, keep in mind that he said he was mad about not knowing it... should've mentioned it. he certainly isn't happy. Should be getting mad at Choya then, instead of Jessica. I'm sure he is, if he is mad on Jessica or not i have no idea. Probably a bit too, you can see in his rant he doesn't like the way she is publicizing stuff now and not directly. Yeah, ok, he probably is. I just find it strange he couldn't think of the reason why Jessica only now reveals the controversy. It's the exact same reason he's stating in his rant. It looks bad on the SC2 community and it's organizations. If you remember BoSs went ballistic in public before and got his stuff straightened out. I think he would rather Jessica go public early to solve the problems instead of going public after its too late and set fire to everything. No, I think he would've rather liked Jessica to try and solve the issues privately before going public. Which she did. Going public, in light of the fragility of the scene and it's finances largely comming from sponsors and investors, should be a last resort. She didn't use it as a last resort though. She used it as an after the fact resort. That's pretty much the same. Maybe they were still busy behind the scenes when they lost all confidence, and thus disbanded. Then why did she make the decision to disband before going public? It might be able to save the team if she didn't end it already. And if it did not help, it's not like it can be any worse than it is now.
... Simply because BoxeR and Jessica didn't have the motivation to keep the team afloat anymore. They were investing their own money into the team when their own players were bitching to them. So they disband, because bringing something like this to the public wouldn't solve their own problems anymore. It may still solve the issue with ESF and it's powergrab though.
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On October 20 2012 03:21 Kazeyonoma wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 03:12 farnham wrote:On October 20 2012 03:11 Kazeyonoma wrote:On October 20 2012 03:09 farnham wrote:On October 20 2012 03:06 Kazeyonoma wrote:
lets be clear hear,
fxo boss was NOT aware of the practice ban, and is PISSED that fxo took part of it. thats what he is saying jessica gave him a hint over twitter on august the 16th if he didnt investigate after that, that was gross negligence by him oh? can you link me, thanks farnham, i respect fxoboss, so i assume he's being honest but it's possible he did overlook a tweet from her. i already posted it above well to be fair, it wasn't addressed directly at fxoboss, and he doesn't read korean, so it'd be hard for him to know he had to google translate that.
yeah thought it was directed at him.. but it wasnt
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On October 20 2012 03:22 Shival wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 03:18 ragz_gt wrote:On October 20 2012 03:15 Shival wrote:On October 20 2012 03:13 ragz_gt wrote:On October 20 2012 03:11 Shival wrote:On October 20 2012 03:07 ragz_gt wrote:On October 20 2012 03:05 Shival wrote:On October 20 2012 03:01 HolydaKing wrote:On October 20 2012 02:57 Shival wrote:On October 20 2012 02:56 HolydaKing wrote:
[quote]
isn't he just the investor? and such the heart of the team? maybe i'm wrong.
also, keep in mind that he said he was mad about not knowing it... should've mentioned it. he certainly isn't happy. Should be getting mad at Choya then, instead of Jessica. I'm sure he is, if he is mad on Jessica or not i have no idea. Probably a bit too, you can see in his rant he doesn't like the way she is publicizing stuff now and not directly. Yeah, ok, he probably is. I just find it strange he couldn't think of the reason why Jessica only now reveals the controversy. It's the exact same reason he's stating in his rant. It looks bad on the SC2 community and it's organizations. If you remember BoSs went ballistic in public before and got his stuff straightened out. I think he would rather Jessica go public early to solve the problems instead of going public after its too late and set fire to everything. No, I think he would've rather liked Jessica to try and solve the issues privately before going public. Which she did. Going public, in light of the fragility of the scene and it's finances largely comming from sponsors and investors, should be a last resort. She didn't use it as a last resort though. She used it as an after the fact resort. That's pretty much the same. Maybe they were still busy behind the scenes when they lost all confidence, and thus disbanded. Then why did she make the decision to disband before going public? It might be able to save the team if she didn't end it already. And if it did not help, it's not like it can be any worse than it is now. ... Simply because BoxeR and Jessica didn't have the motivation to keep the team afloat anymore. They were investing their own money into the team when their own players were bitching to them. So they disband, because bringing something like this to the public wouldn't solve their own problems anymore. It may still solve the issue with ESF and it's powergrab though.
also, one does not just say, LOOK EVIL CORPORATIONS WHO WERE BOYCOTTING US AND WE HAD NO POWER TO STOP THEM, and then say, btw we're still here, and are looking for practice partners, any takers?
she COULDN'T come out with this info if she knew she had to protect the teams interests. She was only able to disclose all of this because she knew that ultimately, as long as her players could find teams, she could do this with clear conscience of not destroying faithful SlayerS players careers.
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On October 20 2012 03:22 Shival wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 03:18 ragz_gt wrote:On October 20 2012 03:15 Shival wrote:On October 20 2012 03:13 ragz_gt wrote:On October 20 2012 03:11 Shival wrote:On October 20 2012 03:07 ragz_gt wrote:On October 20 2012 03:05 Shival wrote:On October 20 2012 03:01 HolydaKing wrote:On October 20 2012 02:57 Shival wrote:On October 20 2012 02:56 HolydaKing wrote:
[quote]
isn't he just the investor? and such the heart of the team? maybe i'm wrong.
also, keep in mind that he said he was mad about not knowing it... should've mentioned it. he certainly isn't happy. Should be getting mad at Choya then, instead of Jessica. I'm sure he is, if he is mad on Jessica or not i have no idea. Probably a bit too, you can see in his rant he doesn't like the way she is publicizing stuff now and not directly. Yeah, ok, he probably is. I just find it strange he couldn't think of the reason why Jessica only now reveals the controversy. It's the exact same reason he's stating in his rant. It looks bad on the SC2 community and it's organizations. If you remember BoSs went ballistic in public before and got his stuff straightened out. I think he would rather Jessica go public early to solve the problems instead of going public after its too late and set fire to everything. No, I think he would've rather liked Jessica to try and solve the issues privately before going public. Which she did. Going public, in light of the fragility of the scene and it's finances largely comming from sponsors and investors, should be a last resort. She didn't use it as a last resort though. She used it as an after the fact resort. That's pretty much the same. Maybe they were still busy behind the scenes when they lost all confidence, and thus disbanded. Then why did she make the decision to disband before going public? It might be able to save the team if she didn't end it already. And if it did not help, it's not like it can be any worse than it is now. ... Simply because BoxeR and Jessica didn't have the motivation to keep the team afloat anymore. They were investing their own money into the team when their own players were bitching to them. So they disband, because bringing something like this to the public wouldn't solve their own problems anymore. It may still solve the issue with ESF and it's powergrab though.
it was pretty clear that the "slave note" comment of MMA was the nail in the coffin for boxer
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On October 20 2012 03:26 Kazeyonoma wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 03:22 Shival wrote:On October 20 2012 03:18 ragz_gt wrote:On October 20 2012 03:15 Shival wrote:On October 20 2012 03:13 ragz_gt wrote:On October 20 2012 03:11 Shival wrote:On October 20 2012 03:07 ragz_gt wrote:On October 20 2012 03:05 Shival wrote:On October 20 2012 03:01 HolydaKing wrote:On October 20 2012 02:57 Shival wrote:
[quote]
Should be getting mad at Choya then, instead of Jessica. I'm sure he is, if he is mad on Jessica or not i have no idea. Probably a bit too, you can see in his rant he doesn't like the way she is publicizing stuff now and not directly. Yeah, ok, he probably is. I just find it strange he couldn't think of the reason why Jessica only now reveals the controversy. It's the exact same reason he's stating in his rant. It looks bad on the SC2 community and it's organizations. If you remember BoSs went ballistic in public before and got his stuff straightened out. I think he would rather Jessica go public early to solve the problems instead of going public after its too late and set fire to everything. No, I think he would've rather liked Jessica to try and solve the issues privately before going public. Which she did. Going public, in light of the fragility of the scene and it's finances largely comming from sponsors and investors, should be a last resort. She didn't use it as a last resort though. She used it as an after the fact resort. That's pretty much the same. Maybe they were still busy behind the scenes when they lost all confidence, and thus disbanded. Then why did she make the decision to disband before going public? It might be able to save the team if she didn't end it already. And if it did not help, it's not like it can be any worse than it is now. ... Simply because BoxeR and Jessica didn't have the motivation to keep the team afloat anymore. They were investing their own money into the team when their own players were bitching to them. So they disband, because bringing something like this to the public wouldn't solve their own problems anymore. It may still solve the issue with ESF and it's powergrab though. also, one does not just say, LOOK EVIL CORPORATIONS WHO WERE BOYCOTTING US AND WE HAD NO POWER TO STOP THEM, and then say, btw we're still here, and are looking for practice partners, any takers? she COULDN'T come out with this info if she knew she had to protect the teams interests. She was only able to disclose all of this because she knew that ultimately, as long as her players could find teams, she could do this with clear conscience of not destroying faithful SlayerS players careers.
Thanks for adding to it, that's definately a part of the thought process.
it was pretty clear that the "slave note" comment of MMA was the nail in the coffin for boxer
Yeah, that must've stung alot.
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Looking back, the difference between Boxer and MMA is enormous. Boxer played purely with passion for the game he loved. The practice regimes Boxer put in with virtually no support all with the goal of furthering his dream.
MMA....who had the full support of Boxer - the man of esports himself - and his attitude is to complain about money and working conditions?
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On October 20 2012 03:18 ragz_gt wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 03:15 Shival wrote:On October 20 2012 03:13 ragz_gt wrote:On October 20 2012 03:11 Shival wrote:On October 20 2012 03:07 ragz_gt wrote:On October 20 2012 03:05 Shival wrote:On October 20 2012 03:01 HolydaKing wrote:On October 20 2012 02:57 Shival wrote:On October 20 2012 02:56 HolydaKing wrote:On October 20 2012 02:54 farnham wrote:
[quote]
i remember him being on STOG and stressign that FOU is not FXO Korea but the Korean Division of FXO
choya is his subordinate
either he is a bad manager that has no control over his korean division or he is lying
whichever it is it doesnt make him look good isn't he just the investor? and such the heart of the team? maybe i'm wrong. also, keep in mind that he said he was mad about not knowing it... should've mentioned it. he certainly isn't happy. Should be getting mad at Choya then, instead of Jessica. I'm sure he is, if he is mad on Jessica or not i have no idea. Probably a bit too, you can see in his rant he doesn't like the way she is publicizing stuff now and not directly. Yeah, ok, he probably is. I just find it strange he couldn't think of the reason why Jessica only now reveals the controversy. It's the exact same reason he's stating in his rant. It looks bad on the SC2 community and it's organizations. If you remember BoSs went ballistic in public before and got his stuff straightened out. I think he would rather Jessica go public early to solve the problems instead of going public after its too late and set fire to everything. No, I think he would've rather liked Jessica to try and solve the issues privately before going public. Which she did. Going public, in light of the fragility of the scene and it's finances largely comming from sponsors and investors, should be a last resort. She didn't use it as a last resort though. She used it as an after the fact resort. That's pretty much the same. Maybe they were still busy behind the scenes when they lost all confidence, and thus disbanded. Then why did she make the decision to disband before going public? It might be able to save the team if she didn't end it already. And if it did not help, it's not like it can be any worse than it is now.
What effect would going public pre disband have? She would piss off every head coach in ESF (so everyone in Korea).
ESF which were able to pressure KeSPA enough to put in their players in GSL.
While a public outrage would occur, nothing would change and she would have a shitton of people (the coaches) who dislike her. Good luck running a team when you pissed off the people even more than before.
Going public automatically means disbanding SlayerS.
Jessica is in a unique situation, since she doesnt rely on the SC2/Esport community as her line of work. She can piss off ESF without needing to fear repercussions. Players / managers / coaches dont have this luxury. Pissing off ESF for them means not having a career. So everyone is silent.
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On October 20 2012 03:32 Zocat wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 03:18 ragz_gt wrote:On October 20 2012 03:15 Shival wrote:On October 20 2012 03:13 ragz_gt wrote:On October 20 2012 03:11 Shival wrote:On October 20 2012 03:07 ragz_gt wrote:On October 20 2012 03:05 Shival wrote:On October 20 2012 03:01 HolydaKing wrote:On October 20 2012 02:57 Shival wrote:On October 20 2012 02:56 HolydaKing wrote:
[quote]
isn't he just the investor? and such the heart of the team? maybe i'm wrong.
also, keep in mind that he said he was mad about not knowing it... should've mentioned it. he certainly isn't happy. Should be getting mad at Choya then, instead of Jessica. I'm sure he is, if he is mad on Jessica or not i have no idea. Probably a bit too, you can see in his rant he doesn't like the way she is publicizing stuff now and not directly. Yeah, ok, he probably is. I just find it strange he couldn't think of the reason why Jessica only now reveals the controversy. It's the exact same reason he's stating in his rant. It looks bad on the SC2 community and it's organizations. If you remember BoSs went ballistic in public before and got his stuff straightened out. I think he would rather Jessica go public early to solve the problems instead of going public after its too late and set fire to everything. No, I think he would've rather liked Jessica to try and solve the issues privately before going public. Which she did. Going public, in light of the fragility of the scene and it's finances largely comming from sponsors and investors, should be a last resort. She didn't use it as a last resort though. She used it as an after the fact resort. That's pretty much the same. Maybe they were still busy behind the scenes when they lost all confidence, and thus disbanded. Then why did she make the decision to disband before going public? It might be able to save the team if she didn't end it already. And if it did not help, it's not like it can be any worse than it is now. What effect would going public pre disband have? She would piss off every head coach in ESF (so everyone in Korea). ESF which were able to pressure KeSPA enough to put in their players in GSL. While a public outrage would occur, nothing would change and she would have a shitton of people (the coaches) who dislike her. Good luck running a team when you pissed off the people even more than before. Going public automatically means disbanding SlayerS. Jessica is in a unique situation, since she doesnt rely on the SC2/Esport community as her line of work. She can piss off ESF without needing to fear repercussions. Players / managers / coaches dont have this luxury. Pissing off ESF for them means not having a career. So everyone is silent.
She can disband the team right after if it didn't work. Not like it made it any worse.
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On October 20 2012 03:33 ragz_gt wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 03:32 Zocat wrote:On October 20 2012 03:18 ragz_gt wrote:On October 20 2012 03:15 Shival wrote:On October 20 2012 03:13 ragz_gt wrote:On October 20 2012 03:11 Shival wrote:On October 20 2012 03:07 ragz_gt wrote:On October 20 2012 03:05 Shival wrote:On October 20 2012 03:01 HolydaKing wrote:On October 20 2012 02:57 Shival wrote:
[quote]
Should be getting mad at Choya then, instead of Jessica. I'm sure he is, if he is mad on Jessica or not i have no idea. Probably a bit too, you can see in his rant he doesn't like the way she is publicizing stuff now and not directly. Yeah, ok, he probably is. I just find it strange he couldn't think of the reason why Jessica only now reveals the controversy. It's the exact same reason he's stating in his rant. It looks bad on the SC2 community and it's organizations. If you remember BoSs went ballistic in public before and got his stuff straightened out. I think he would rather Jessica go public early to solve the problems instead of going public after its too late and set fire to everything. No, I think he would've rather liked Jessica to try and solve the issues privately before going public. Which she did. Going public, in light of the fragility of the scene and it's finances largely comming from sponsors and investors, should be a last resort. She didn't use it as a last resort though. She used it as an after the fact resort. That's pretty much the same. Maybe they were still busy behind the scenes when they lost all confidence, and thus disbanded. Then why did she make the decision to disband before going public? It might be able to save the team if she didn't end it already. And if it did not help, it's not like it can be any worse than it is now. What effect would going public pre disband have? She would piss off every head coach in ESF (so everyone in Korea). ESF which were able to pressure KeSPA enough to put in their players in GSL. While a public outrage would occur, nothing would change and she would have a shitton of people (the coaches) who dislike her. Good luck running a team when you pissed off the people even more than before. Going public automatically means disbanding SlayerS. Jessica is in a unique situation, since she doesnt rely on the SC2/Esport community as her line of work. She can piss off ESF without needing to fear repercussions. Players / managers / coaches dont have this luxury. Pissing off ESF for them means not having a career. So everyone is silent. She can disband the team right after if it didn't work. Not like it made it any worse.
It's not solely that, it's their own motivation to continue coupled with the thought that bringing it to light would mean an automatic folding of the team. Regardless of whether it would've worked, they didn't want to continue anymore.
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On October 20 2012 03:33 ragz_gt wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 03:32 Zocat wrote:On October 20 2012 03:18 ragz_gt wrote:On October 20 2012 03:15 Shival wrote:On October 20 2012 03:13 ragz_gt wrote:On October 20 2012 03:11 Shival wrote:On October 20 2012 03:07 ragz_gt wrote:On October 20 2012 03:05 Shival wrote:On October 20 2012 03:01 HolydaKing wrote:On October 20 2012 02:57 Shival wrote:
[quote]
Should be getting mad at Choya then, instead of Jessica. I'm sure he is, if he is mad on Jessica or not i have no idea. Probably a bit too, you can see in his rant he doesn't like the way she is publicizing stuff now and not directly. Yeah, ok, he probably is. I just find it strange he couldn't think of the reason why Jessica only now reveals the controversy. It's the exact same reason he's stating in his rant. It looks bad on the SC2 community and it's organizations. If you remember BoSs went ballistic in public before and got his stuff straightened out. I think he would rather Jessica go public early to solve the problems instead of going public after its too late and set fire to everything. No, I think he would've rather liked Jessica to try and solve the issues privately before going public. Which she did. Going public, in light of the fragility of the scene and it's finances largely comming from sponsors and investors, should be a last resort. She didn't use it as a last resort though. She used it as an after the fact resort. That's pretty much the same. Maybe they were still busy behind the scenes when they lost all confidence, and thus disbanded. Then why did she make the decision to disband before going public? It might be able to save the team if she didn't end it already. And if it did not help, it's not like it can be any worse than it is now. What effect would going public pre disband have? She would piss off every head coach in ESF (so everyone in Korea). ESF which were able to pressure KeSPA enough to put in their players in GSL. While a public outrage would occur, nothing would change and she would have a shitton of people (the coaches) who dislike her. Good luck running a team when you pissed off the people even more than before. Going public automatically means disbanding SlayerS. Jessica is in a unique situation, since she doesnt rely on the SC2/Esport community as her line of work. She can piss off ESF without needing to fear repercussions. Players / managers / coaches dont have this luxury. Pissing off ESF for them means not having a career. So everyone is silent. She can disband the team right after if it didn't work. Not like it made it any worse.
In my analysis, she disbanded not because of ESF bullying, but because the very core group of her team (MMA, Alicia, Crank) betrayed her, boxer, and boxer's dream which lead to Boxer's eventual transfer to Sk Telecom T1. I'm convinced that if this hadn't happened, Jessica wouldn't have disbanded the team and STILL revealed the ESF bullying afterwards.
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On October 20 2012 03:39 lambac0re wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 03:33 ragz_gt wrote:On October 20 2012 03:32 Zocat wrote:On October 20 2012 03:18 ragz_gt wrote:On October 20 2012 03:15 Shival wrote:On October 20 2012 03:13 ragz_gt wrote:On October 20 2012 03:11 Shival wrote:On October 20 2012 03:07 ragz_gt wrote:On October 20 2012 03:05 Shival wrote:On October 20 2012 03:01 HolydaKing wrote:
[quote]
I'm sure he is, if he is mad on Jessica or not i have no idea. Probably a bit too, you can see in his rant he doesn't like the way she is publicizing stuff now and not directly. Yeah, ok, he probably is. I just find it strange he couldn't think of the reason why Jessica only now reveals the controversy. It's the exact same reason he's stating in his rant. It looks bad on the SC2 community and it's organizations. If you remember BoSs went ballistic in public before and got his stuff straightened out. I think he would rather Jessica go public early to solve the problems instead of going public after its too late and set fire to everything. No, I think he would've rather liked Jessica to try and solve the issues privately before going public. Which she did. Going public, in light of the fragility of the scene and it's finances largely comming from sponsors and investors, should be a last resort. She didn't use it as a last resort though. She used it as an after the fact resort. That's pretty much the same. Maybe they were still busy behind the scenes when they lost all confidence, and thus disbanded. Then why did she make the decision to disband before going public? It might be able to save the team if she didn't end it already. And if it did not help, it's not like it can be any worse than it is now. What effect would going public pre disband have? She would piss off every head coach in ESF (so everyone in Korea). ESF which were able to pressure KeSPA enough to put in their players in GSL. While a public outrage would occur, nothing would change and she would have a shitton of people (the coaches) who dislike her. Good luck running a team when you pissed off the people even more than before. Going public automatically means disbanding SlayerS. Jessica is in a unique situation, since she doesnt rely on the SC2/Esport community as her line of work. She can piss off ESF without needing to fear repercussions. Players / managers / coaches dont have this luxury. Pissing off ESF for them means not having a career. So everyone is silent. She can disband the team right after if it didn't work. Not like it made it any worse. In my analysis, she disbanded not because of ESF bullying, but because the very core group of her team (MMA, Alicia, Crank) betrayed her, boxer, and boxer's dream which lead to Boxer's eventual transfer to Sk Telecom T1. I'm convinced that if this hadn't happened, Jessica wouldn't have disbanded the team and STILL revealed the ESF bullying afterwards.
Maybe, but in your scenario she could revealed the bullying earlier and address player issues properly.
It's like someone feels sick. Tries all sorts of folk medicines but didn't get any better. After a year, he finally goes to doctor and doctor like "man, it's too late to do anything! why you no come earlier!" and the patient is like "but I didn't want to worry anyone"
He could of still dead if he went to doctor earlier but he could possibly be saved. And it's frigging sad see a team go down like that.
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On October 20 2012 03:48 ragz_gt wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 03:39 lambac0re wrote:On October 20 2012 03:33 ragz_gt wrote:On October 20 2012 03:32 Zocat wrote:On October 20 2012 03:18 ragz_gt wrote:On October 20 2012 03:15 Shival wrote:On October 20 2012 03:13 ragz_gt wrote:On October 20 2012 03:11 Shival wrote:On October 20 2012 03:07 ragz_gt wrote:On October 20 2012 03:05 Shival wrote:
[quote]
Yeah, ok, he probably is. I just find it strange he couldn't think of the reason why Jessica only now reveals the controversy. It's the exact same reason he's stating in his rant. It looks bad on the SC2 community and it's organizations. If you remember BoSs went ballistic in public before and got his stuff straightened out. I think he would rather Jessica go public early to solve the problems instead of going public after its too late and set fire to everything. No, I think he would've rather liked Jessica to try and solve the issues privately before going public. Which she did. Going public, in light of the fragility of the scene and it's finances largely comming from sponsors and investors, should be a last resort. She didn't use it as a last resort though. She used it as an after the fact resort. That's pretty much the same. Maybe they were still busy behind the scenes when they lost all confidence, and thus disbanded. Then why did she make the decision to disband before going public? It might be able to save the team if she didn't end it already. And if it did not help, it's not like it can be any worse than it is now. What effect would going public pre disband have? She would piss off every head coach in ESF (so everyone in Korea). ESF which were able to pressure KeSPA enough to put in their players in GSL. While a public outrage would occur, nothing would change and she would have a shitton of people (the coaches) who dislike her. Good luck running a team when you pissed off the people even more than before. Going public automatically means disbanding SlayerS. Jessica is in a unique situation, since she doesnt rely on the SC2/Esport community as her line of work. She can piss off ESF without needing to fear repercussions. Players / managers / coaches dont have this luxury. Pissing off ESF for them means not having a career. So everyone is silent. She can disband the team right after if it didn't work. Not like it made it any worse. In my analysis, she disbanded not because of ESF bullying, but because the very core group of her team (MMA, Alicia, Crank) betrayed her, boxer, and boxer's dream which lead to Boxer's eventual transfer to Sk Telecom T1. I'm convinced that if this hadn't happened, Jessica wouldn't have disbanded the team and STILL revealed the ESF bullying afterwards. Maybe, but in your scenario she could revealed the bullying earlier and address player issues properly.
And I disagree. If she had revealed the ESF incident publicly beforehand, then she would be making life very difficult for her players - MMA, Alicia Crank and others. They betrayed the team and left, Boxer left, what motivation does she have to keep the team going? Now that everything she was seeking to protect is gone, she can reveal the ESF incident without hesitation.
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My heart goes out to Jessica and the honorable SlayerS players, but from reading most of this I gather 2 things: 1.) SC2 players seem to act a bit like bitchy children and 2.)ESF is waaaay shadier than I thought. Very dissapointing news regardless. I'd really like to hear more about the embezzlement allegations though.
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On October 20 2012 03:53 lambac0re wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 03:48 ragz_gt wrote:On October 20 2012 03:39 lambac0re wrote:On October 20 2012 03:33 ragz_gt wrote:On October 20 2012 03:32 Zocat wrote:On October 20 2012 03:18 ragz_gt wrote:On October 20 2012 03:15 Shival wrote:On October 20 2012 03:13 ragz_gt wrote:On October 20 2012 03:11 Shival wrote:On October 20 2012 03:07 ragz_gt wrote:
[quote]
If you remember BoSs went ballistic in public before and got his stuff straightened out. I think he would rather Jessica go public early to solve the problems instead of going public after its too late and set fire to everything. No, I think he would've rather liked Jessica to try and solve the issues privately before going public. Which she did. Going public, in light of the fragility of the scene and it's finances largely comming from sponsors and investors, should be a last resort. She didn't use it as a last resort though. She used it as an after the fact resort. That's pretty much the same. Maybe they were still busy behind the scenes when they lost all confidence, and thus disbanded. Then why did she make the decision to disband before going public? It might be able to save the team if she didn't end it already. And if it did not help, it's not like it can be any worse than it is now. What effect would going public pre disband have? She would piss off every head coach in ESF (so everyone in Korea). ESF which were able to pressure KeSPA enough to put in their players in GSL. While a public outrage would occur, nothing would change and she would have a shitton of people (the coaches) who dislike her. Good luck running a team when you pissed off the people even more than before. Going public automatically means disbanding SlayerS. Jessica is in a unique situation, since she doesnt rely on the SC2/Esport community as her line of work. She can piss off ESF without needing to fear repercussions. Players / managers / coaches dont have this luxury. Pissing off ESF for them means not having a career. So everyone is silent. She can disband the team right after if it didn't work. Not like it made it any worse. In my analysis, she disbanded not because of ESF bullying, but because the very core group of her team (MMA, Alicia, Crank) betrayed her, boxer, and boxer's dream which lead to Boxer's eventual transfer to Sk Telecom T1. I'm convinced that if this hadn't happened, Jessica wouldn't have disbanded the team and STILL revealed the ESF bullying afterwards. Maybe, but in your scenario she could revealed the bullying earlier and address player issues properly. And I disagree. If she had revealed the ESF incident publicly beforehand, then she would be making life very difficult for her players - MMA, Alicia Crank and others. They betrayed the team and left, Boxer left, what motivation does she have to keep the team going? Now that everything she was seeking to protect is gone, she can reveal the ESF incident without hesitation.
That's exactly my problem. Her thought process was not to "solve the problem", but to "get even" or "great justice" or whatever it is that reveal ESF achieve now. That shows poor leadership.
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On October 20 2012 03:56 ragz_gt wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 03:53 lambac0re wrote:On October 20 2012 03:48 ragz_gt wrote:On October 20 2012 03:39 lambac0re wrote:On October 20 2012 03:33 ragz_gt wrote:On October 20 2012 03:32 Zocat wrote:On October 20 2012 03:18 ragz_gt wrote:On October 20 2012 03:15 Shival wrote:On October 20 2012 03:13 ragz_gt wrote:On October 20 2012 03:11 Shival wrote:
[quote]
No, I think he would've rather liked Jessica to try and solve the issues privately before going public. Which she did. Going public, in light of the fragility of the scene and it's finances largely comming from sponsors and investors, should be a last resort.
She didn't use it as a last resort though. She used it as an after the fact resort. That's pretty much the same. Maybe they were still busy behind the scenes when they lost all confidence, and thus disbanded. Then why did she make the decision to disband before going public? It might be able to save the team if she didn't end it already. And if it did not help, it's not like it can be any worse than it is now. What effect would going public pre disband have? She would piss off every head coach in ESF (so everyone in Korea). ESF which were able to pressure KeSPA enough to put in their players in GSL. While a public outrage would occur, nothing would change and she would have a shitton of people (the coaches) who dislike her. Good luck running a team when you pissed off the people even more than before. Going public automatically means disbanding SlayerS. Jessica is in a unique situation, since she doesnt rely on the SC2/Esport community as her line of work. She can piss off ESF without needing to fear repercussions. Players / managers / coaches dont have this luxury. Pissing off ESF for them means not having a career. So everyone is silent. She can disband the team right after if it didn't work. Not like it made it any worse. In my analysis, she disbanded not because of ESF bullying, but because the very core group of her team (MMA, Alicia, Crank) betrayed her, boxer, and boxer's dream which lead to Boxer's eventual transfer to Sk Telecom T1. I'm convinced that if this hadn't happened, Jessica wouldn't have disbanded the team and STILL revealed the ESF bullying afterwards. Maybe, but in your scenario she could revealed the bullying earlier and address player issues properly. And I disagree. If she had revealed the ESF incident publicly beforehand, then she would be making life very difficult for her players - MMA, Alicia Crank and others. They betrayed the team and left, Boxer left, what motivation does she have to keep the team going? Now that everything she was seeking to protect is gone, she can reveal the ESF incident without hesitation. That's exactly my problem. Her thought process was not to "solve the problem", but to "get even" or "great justice" or whatever it is that reveal ESF achieve now. That shows poor leadership.
How do you know what her thought process was? What do you know of what she and boxer did behind the scenes to try and solve the problems? All we know right now it all fell apart at the end, and now that it fell apart, shit is going to hit the fan. You have no basis for claiming that Jessica didn't try and solve the problems behind the scenes. Whether her leadership was good or not...that is purely subjective as even a great leader can fail if all the cards are stacked against them.
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Canada16217 Posts
On October 20 2012 03:58 lambac0re wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 03:56 ragz_gt wrote:On October 20 2012 03:53 lambac0re wrote:On October 20 2012 03:48 ragz_gt wrote:On October 20 2012 03:39 lambac0re wrote:On October 20 2012 03:33 ragz_gt wrote:On October 20 2012 03:32 Zocat wrote:On October 20 2012 03:18 ragz_gt wrote:On October 20 2012 03:15 Shival wrote:On October 20 2012 03:13 ragz_gt wrote:
[quote]
She didn't use it as a last resort though. She used it as an after the fact resort. That's pretty much the same. Maybe they were still busy behind the scenes when they lost all confidence, and thus disbanded. Then why did she make the decision to disband before going public? It might be able to save the team if she didn't end it already. And if it did not help, it's not like it can be any worse than it is now. What effect would going public pre disband have? She would piss off every head coach in ESF (so everyone in Korea). ESF which were able to pressure KeSPA enough to put in their players in GSL. While a public outrage would occur, nothing would change and she would have a shitton of people (the coaches) who dislike her. Good luck running a team when you pissed off the people even more than before. Going public automatically means disbanding SlayerS. Jessica is in a unique situation, since she doesnt rely on the SC2/Esport community as her line of work. She can piss off ESF without needing to fear repercussions. Players / managers / coaches dont have this luxury. Pissing off ESF for them means not having a career. So everyone is silent. She can disband the team right after if it didn't work. Not like it made it any worse. In my analysis, she disbanded not because of ESF bullying, but because the very core group of her team (MMA, Alicia, Crank) betrayed her, boxer, and boxer's dream which lead to Boxer's eventual transfer to Sk Telecom T1. I'm convinced that if this hadn't happened, Jessica wouldn't have disbanded the team and STILL revealed the ESF bullying afterwards. Maybe, but in your scenario she could revealed the bullying earlier and address player issues properly. And I disagree. If she had revealed the ESF incident publicly beforehand, then she would be making life very difficult for her players - MMA, Alicia Crank and others. They betrayed the team and left, Boxer left, what motivation does she have to keep the team going? Now that everything she was seeking to protect is gone, she can reveal the ESF incident without hesitation. That's exactly my problem. Her thought process was not to "solve the problem", but to "get even" or "great justice" or whatever it is that reveal ESF achieve now. That shows poor leadership. How do you know what her thought process was? What do you know of what she and boxer did behind the scenes to try and solve the problems? All we know right now it all fell apart at the end, and now that it fell apart, shit is going to hit the fan. You have no basis for saying that Jessica didn't try and solve the problems behind the scenes.
IMO the whole team was run poorly for this to happen in the first place. Nothing worked out. He's right why wouldn't they reveal this earlier? It feels like she wants "revenge" for something she didn't even try to solve in the first place.
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On October 20 2012 03:18 farnham wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 03:16 blamekilly wrote:On October 19 2012 13:28 masterbreti wrote:On October 19 2012 12:46 RenSC2 wrote:On October 19 2012 12:35 masterbreti wrote:On October 19 2012 12:20 RenSC2 wrote:On October 19 2012 11:10 Taku wrote:On October 19 2012 11:07 ragz_gt wrote:On October 19 2012 11:04 GolemMadness wrote:On October 19 2012 11:02 ragz_gt wrote:
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I agree it's not one player misbehaving. But do you know what everyone misbehaving means? It means they suck at running a team. It's not everyone misbehaving. That's not said anywhere. Don't post accusations if you didn't bother to read the OP. Read the conversation. I'm saying Slayers either literally breeding evil monsters in their team house or they are incapable of solving issues that occurs when young people live together in a highly competitive highly pressured environment. And I'm leaning against latter (because former is utterly ridiculous). If you dump a ton of money on a teenager and cater to almost every one of their whims, of course they're going to turn into brats. If Boxer/Jessica are guilty of anything, I'd say it's if being naive. That and victims of their bratty players who took advantage of them. By "dump a ton of money on a teenager", did you mean, "pay them $0"? Because they were all paid $0 by their team. They did get food, housing, and (usually) transportation covered. Along with that, in their contracts, SlayerS was actually supposed to get a portion of all their players' tournament winnings. Supposedly, they never actually took any. I believe they were also prevented from streaming pretty early on which cut off one of their only abilities to make some income. If MMA would have signed with a foreign team at his peak, he'd have at least 10s of thousands of dollars more than he currently has and potentially 100s of thousands if he could hit a sweet deal with a team like EG. Instead, the players made tournament winnings and nothing else even when the team had an approximately half million dollar Intel deal. They put in 40+ hours a week for more than a year to be some of the most elite people in their profession and only in a few cases are they walking away with more than minimum wage. Many of the less successful players are walking away with less than $1000 total. Does that sound like they've been spoiled? MMA called it a slave contract for a reason. Boxer may not have had all the food/housing support when he started, but he wasn't contractually bound to a team he didn't want to play for that was paying him $0. And nobody was charging $90,000 to get Boxer out of a contract that paid him $0. Just out of Curosity, Do you know how much it costs to feed 10-15 Growing men a month?. Do you know how much it costs to rent a apartment big enough (in a nice area of seoul too) for 10-15 men? Do you know how much gas+transit fees are in Seoul? Nevermind Electric bills, heating and water bills (hot water is expensive in Korea IIRC). Having a maid to cook the food. I would guess half a million dollars when you add in transportation costs. Either that or some money went missing. I'm guessing by your location that you'd be able to give better answers than I on the costs of living in Korea. The point was that these players weren't exactly spoiled as a lot of people seem to be saying. SlayerS paid them nothing and a few of them could have made a lot more if they weren't bound by a $0 contract. Well first you have to look at buying a Van for the players, and seeing the SlayerS van itself, it would cost them a pretty penny, maybe 20-30,000 if you buy used or on a huge sale. Then renting a apartment, in a rich area where they were. It would be maybe 8-10k a month (not sure 100% on this, but I've seen smaller apartments go for around that price, in lesser areas of seoul too) and a maybe 5k security deposit food is maybe 100-200 a week, depepnding on where you go shopping and what they want to eat. Having to pay a maid to come and cook and clean for them would be around 300 a week (never had to hire a maid, so again, not sure on this, might be or less) Not you are looking at Hydro, water, heating, electric, and other such costs for 10 men. So maybe 2-3k a month. So lets tally the first months costs, nevermind stuff like uniforms, computers, or any of that stuff. 9000+5000+30000+1200+1000+3000= 49 200 dollars for the first month Now assmuing nothing changes and they don't need new uniforms or new computers or anything apart from rent and their regular bills. 9000+1200+1000+3000= 14 200 a month now SlayerS was formed in December 2010, so lets caculate the costs from Janurary 2011 until November 2012 (when the team is disbanding. 14200x21= 298 200 in base costs. Now lets add the first months startup costs of 49200 and we get 349 000 roughly. Now this is just base costs, This doesn't inculde things like going out to eat, transit for players to international events (which costs a lot of money). having to buy new uniforms, or registration fees for tournaments. Or anything of that sort. Assuming nothing ever breaks or nothin new ever needs to be bought ever. For the team house alone and to cover the players expenses. It would be about 350k. Remember, this doesn't cover Boxer or Jessica's apartment or their own personal costs. This is just for the players. Mind you also I am lowballing everything here, and likely it is much more expensive. Running a team and a teamhouse isn't cheap. The players in korea all know this and most of them don't complain, I know while I was in the prime house, none of the players ever complained about the team. I thinkthe Manager who came in around november/december 2011 and left around Janurary of this year really made things worse. All the sponsors basically dropped SlayerS because of this guy and finally he was removed from the team. After that money was tight for SlayerS and so they had to cur corners, which made the Already unhappy MMA angry, he started to spread rumors (the same that manager J told) and the environment turned ugly from then on. If manager J hadn't come along and screw around with SlayerS, we would have a different result here. and SlayerS would likely still be the most wealthy team around. But this manager really fucked with the atmosphere and made everyone turn against each other. Can probably add a little more to the rent since SlayerS rented an apartment for training AND another apartment next door for living...... these guys were spoiled, MAJORLY. name another Korean team that was treated this good. also in friggin wealthy part of seoul and they even had a team van, which other teams probably dont have.
Like I said, I was lowballing a lot here. My caculations were to give a rough idea of what running the team would cost SlayerS, Though I think if I were to get more accurate numbers, I could likely go close to 600k over the course of SlayerS life.
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On October 20 2012 04:02 NovemberstOrm wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 03:58 lambac0re wrote:On October 20 2012 03:56 ragz_gt wrote:On October 20 2012 03:53 lambac0re wrote:On October 20 2012 03:48 ragz_gt wrote:On October 20 2012 03:39 lambac0re wrote:On October 20 2012 03:33 ragz_gt wrote:On October 20 2012 03:32 Zocat wrote:On October 20 2012 03:18 ragz_gt wrote:On October 20 2012 03:15 Shival wrote:
[quote]
That's pretty much the same. Maybe they were still busy behind the scenes when they lost all confidence, and thus disbanded. Then why did she make the decision to disband before going public? It might be able to save the team if she didn't end it already. And if it did not help, it's not like it can be any worse than it is now. What effect would going public pre disband have? She would piss off every head coach in ESF (so everyone in Korea). ESF which were able to pressure KeSPA enough to put in their players in GSL. While a public outrage would occur, nothing would change and she would have a shitton of people (the coaches) who dislike her. Good luck running a team when you pissed off the people even more than before. Going public automatically means disbanding SlayerS. Jessica is in a unique situation, since she doesnt rely on the SC2/Esport community as her line of work. She can piss off ESF without needing to fear repercussions. Players / managers / coaches dont have this luxury. Pissing off ESF for them means not having a career. So everyone is silent. She can disband the team right after if it didn't work. Not like it made it any worse. In my analysis, she disbanded not because of ESF bullying, but because the very core group of her team (MMA, Alicia, Crank) betrayed her, boxer, and boxer's dream which lead to Boxer's eventual transfer to Sk Telecom T1. I'm convinced that if this hadn't happened, Jessica wouldn't have disbanded the team and STILL revealed the ESF bullying afterwards. Maybe, but in your scenario she could revealed the bullying earlier and address player issues properly. And I disagree. If she had revealed the ESF incident publicly beforehand, then she would be making life very difficult for her players - MMA, Alicia Crank and others. They betrayed the team and left, Boxer left, what motivation does she have to keep the team going? Now that everything she was seeking to protect is gone, she can reveal the ESF incident without hesitation. That's exactly my problem. Her thought process was not to "solve the problem", but to "get even" or "great justice" or whatever it is that reveal ESF achieve now. That shows poor leadership. How do you know what her thought process was? What do you know of what she and boxer did behind the scenes to try and solve the problems? All we know right now it all fell apart at the end, and now that it fell apart, shit is going to hit the fan. You have no basis for saying that Jessica didn't try and solve the problems behind the scenes. IMO the whole team was run poorly for this to happen in the first place. Nothing worked out. He's right why wouldn't they reveal this earlier? It feels like she wants "revenge" for something she didn't even try to solve in the first place.
SlayerS have better treatment than all of the other ESF teams.And MMA said it was slavery.
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On October 20 2012 04:02 NovemberstOrm wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 03:58 lambac0re wrote:On October 20 2012 03:56 ragz_gt wrote:On October 20 2012 03:53 lambac0re wrote:On October 20 2012 03:48 ragz_gt wrote:On October 20 2012 03:39 lambac0re wrote:On October 20 2012 03:33 ragz_gt wrote:On October 20 2012 03:32 Zocat wrote:On October 20 2012 03:18 ragz_gt wrote:On October 20 2012 03:15 Shival wrote:
[quote]
That's pretty much the same. Maybe they were still busy behind the scenes when they lost all confidence, and thus disbanded. Then why did she make the decision to disband before going public? It might be able to save the team if she didn't end it already. And if it did not help, it's not like it can be any worse than it is now. What effect would going public pre disband have? She would piss off every head coach in ESF (so everyone in Korea). ESF which were able to pressure KeSPA enough to put in their players in GSL. While a public outrage would occur, nothing would change and she would have a shitton of people (the coaches) who dislike her. Good luck running a team when you pissed off the people even more than before. Going public automatically means disbanding SlayerS. Jessica is in a unique situation, since she doesnt rely on the SC2/Esport community as her line of work. She can piss off ESF without needing to fear repercussions. Players / managers / coaches dont have this luxury. Pissing off ESF for them means not having a career. So everyone is silent. She can disband the team right after if it didn't work. Not like it made it any worse. In my analysis, she disbanded not because of ESF bullying, but because the very core group of her team (MMA, Alicia, Crank) betrayed her, boxer, and boxer's dream which lead to Boxer's eventual transfer to Sk Telecom T1. I'm convinced that if this hadn't happened, Jessica wouldn't have disbanded the team and STILL revealed the ESF bullying afterwards. Maybe, but in your scenario she could revealed the bullying earlier and address player issues properly. And I disagree. If she had revealed the ESF incident publicly beforehand, then she would be making life very difficult for her players - MMA, Alicia Crank and others. They betrayed the team and left, Boxer left, what motivation does she have to keep the team going? Now that everything she was seeking to protect is gone, she can reveal the ESF incident without hesitation. That's exactly my problem. Her thought process was not to "solve the problem", but to "get even" or "great justice" or whatever it is that reveal ESF achieve now. That shows poor leadership. How do you know what her thought process was? What do you know of what she and boxer did behind the scenes to try and solve the problems? All we know right now it all fell apart at the end, and now that it fell apart, shit is going to hit the fan. You have no basis for saying that Jessica didn't try and solve the problems behind the scenes. IMO the whole team was run poorly for this to happen in the first place. Nothing worked out. He's right why wouldn't they reveal this earlier? It feels like she wants "revenge" for something she didn't even try to solve in the first place.
If you had read the earlier posts, it's already been explained why slayers management may have thought it was a bad idea to reveal ESF bullying earlier.
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On October 20 2012 03:58 lambac0re wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 03:56 ragz_gt wrote:On October 20 2012 03:53 lambac0re wrote:On October 20 2012 03:48 ragz_gt wrote:On October 20 2012 03:39 lambac0re wrote:On October 20 2012 03:33 ragz_gt wrote:On October 20 2012 03:32 Zocat wrote:On October 20 2012 03:18 ragz_gt wrote:On October 20 2012 03:15 Shival wrote:On October 20 2012 03:13 ragz_gt wrote:
[quote]
She didn't use it as a last resort though. She used it as an after the fact resort. That's pretty much the same. Maybe they were still busy behind the scenes when they lost all confidence, and thus disbanded. Then why did she make the decision to disband before going public? It might be able to save the team if she didn't end it already. And if it did not help, it's not like it can be any worse than it is now. What effect would going public pre disband have? She would piss off every head coach in ESF (so everyone in Korea). ESF which were able to pressure KeSPA enough to put in their players in GSL. While a public outrage would occur, nothing would change and she would have a shitton of people (the coaches) who dislike her. Good luck running a team when you pissed off the people even more than before. Going public automatically means disbanding SlayerS. Jessica is in a unique situation, since she doesnt rely on the SC2/Esport community as her line of work. She can piss off ESF without needing to fear repercussions. Players / managers / coaches dont have this luxury. Pissing off ESF for them means not having a career. So everyone is silent. She can disband the team right after if it didn't work. Not like it made it any worse. In my analysis, she disbanded not because of ESF bullying, but because the very core group of her team (MMA, Alicia, Crank) betrayed her, boxer, and boxer's dream which lead to Boxer's eventual transfer to Sk Telecom T1. I'm convinced that if this hadn't happened, Jessica wouldn't have disbanded the team and STILL revealed the ESF bullying afterwards. Maybe, but in your scenario she could revealed the bullying earlier and address player issues properly. And I disagree. If she had revealed the ESF incident publicly beforehand, then she would be making life very difficult for her players - MMA, Alicia Crank and others. They betrayed the team and left, Boxer left, what motivation does she have to keep the team going? Now that everything she was seeking to protect is gone, she can reveal the ESF incident without hesitation. That's exactly my problem. Her thought process was not to "solve the problem", but to "get even" or "great justice" or whatever it is that reveal ESF achieve now. That shows poor leadership. How do you know what her thought process was? What do you know of what she and boxer did behind the scenes to try and solve the problems? All we know right now it all fell apart at the end, and now that it fell apart, shit is going to hit the fan. You have no basis for claiming that Jessica didn't try and solve the problems behind the scenes. Whether her leadership was good or not...that is purely subjective as even a great leader can fail if all the cards are stacked against them.
The point is that going public is a valid possibility as a solution, no matter how nuclear it was. Slayers never used it while it had some possibility of helping them. However they used it when it could not really helped them. So the logic is burning everything while it could possibly helped them, no matter how slim the chances = bad, burning everything after slayers is dead = acceptable. How does that make sense?
I never said she didn't try behind scene, I'm pretty sure she did. All I'm saying is that since they ended up blowing everything anyway, they should do it while it could possibly helped them survive as opposed to too late already.
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EPT
