Destiny on where he thinks SC2 is heading. - Page 6

M.R. McThundercrotch

United States265 Posts

October 17 2012 06:01 GMT

#101

On October 17 2012 14:50 Probe1 wrote:
They took something decent that was still functional after a decade and introduced something that has never once been described outside their own marketing department as a step forward.

Yo, that is pretty much a perfect description of SC2 as a whole.

MasterCynical

505 Posts

October 17 2012 06:01 GMT

#102

Its obvious that blizzard is trying to reinvent starcraft.

Why couldn't they have just built on what BW was?

Orracle

United States314 Posts

October 17 2012 06:02 GMT

#103

On October 17 2012 14:58 Kambing wrote:

Show nested quote +

Eh. By that same logic, why don't all the Major League Soccer players transfer over to the NFL since the NFL is far more successful than MLS?

1. Their talents and skills don't translate well enough to football, or
2. They like soccer more than football.

Incorrect. It's not uncommon for a soccer player to switch over to football, as there are generally more physical limitations. Computer games are different, shown by multiple Korean SC2 pros already switching over to LOL. Additionally, there hasn't been a large reason until lately for them to even consider doing so(stagnate growth).

ChaiNs

57 Posts

October 17 2012 06:02 GMT

#104

On October 17 2012 14:49 AndAgain wrote:
I think Destiny doesn't understand the concept of markets. There are games that suit casual players like LoL, and there are games that suit competitive players like SC2. Just because LoL may be more popular doesn't mean there's anything wrong with SC2 being competitive.

It's like how fast food joints are way more popular than steakhouses. That doesn't mean steakhouses should be more like fast food joints.

QFT

I don't think Destiny's discussion about why players played BW is useful, though. Custom game support is essentially as good as it was in BW (with one hell of an improved map editor), and there's no way Blizzard is letting you or me have infinite accounts like B.Net 1 allowed. Neither of these factors are what made BW such a successful esport, not to mention MOBA games have made huge strides forward since BW rocketed to the top of the heap.

However, I do agree that it feels like Blizzard has a close-minded view of how SC2 should be and moves at a glacial pace (if that) when considering implementing new ideas that could truly help the community to thrive. The slow and minimal communication with the community is one of the most discouraging aspects of Blizzard's stance on SC in general.

phodacbiet

United States1740 Posts

October 17 2012 06:02 GMT

#105

On October 17 2012 15:01 MasterCynical wrote:
Its obvious that blizzard is trying to reinvent starcraft.

Why couldn't they have just built on what BW was?

Because blizzard forgot how to build games when they got too rich. Look at diablo 3.

KimJongChill

United States6429 Posts

October 17 2012 06:03 GMT

#106

I totally agree, just look at the success of games like LOL, where active promotion by the parent company or w.e helps so much.

Probe1

United States17920 Posts

October 17 2012 06:03 GMT

#107

On October 17 2012 14:53 ketomai wrote:

Show nested quote +

He never mentions changing the multiplayer to make it more open to casuals. If you look again, he only suggests things that deal with bnet. The bottomline is: for the game to succeed competitively, it needs to have viewers, and to have viewers, it needs to be a fun experience, which SC2 is not at the moment for many.

You're suggesting that all of his comments were pointed solely at battlenet but he makes points about the unforgiving difficulty of certain builds. =/=

Your post is a contradiction. Viewers don't care about battle.net. Viewers watch streams. Would there be more if SC2 used the dota client? Probably. But would there suddenly be Dota2/LoL numbers if it were incorporated today? No.

oBlade

United States5672 Posts

October 17 2012 06:04 GMT

#108

BW had a sandbox infrastructure. It did well when Blizzard was playing the role of a game developer. They just aren't suited to doing much else. Antihack was third party software. The competitive ladders were run by third parties because there wasn't a focus on controlling every aspect of the game. And specifically because there were third party servers and third party software, we could play with better latency. The mechanism for hosting games made sense and encouraged people to find the kinds of maps they wanted to play. Thus there is simultaneously competitive play and casual play. Peer to peer map distribution and an easy to use in-game social system meant you could meet people easy.

I think emailing sponsors with nice things to say and assurances that we trust their brands is a fair way to curb the damage done by people who email sponsors with vitriol.

I disagree with achievements. I think the flow has to come from the gameplay itself, which there is ample room to improve in expansions (although I won't hold my breath). If only because in BW you could quickly find the kind of maps you wanted to play whether you were at the top of a competitive ladder or a UMS player looking for Strip Sakura.

Stormraught

Canada29 Posts

October 17 2012 06:05 GMT

#109

It's not fun to play ranked matches that affect a ladder ranking. Why on earth would you play a game that gives you ladder anxiety?

Pretty much why I don't pursue Sc2 Multiplayer :/ Most of the time the whole ladder system just leaves me frustrated rather than having fun. v_v

Woizit

801 Posts

October 17 2012 06:06 GMT

#110

I guess a big problem is how Blizzard depended on the community growing outside of bnet, while relying on bnet as the only means for playing the game. Interest in watching SC2 grew, especially using it as a social point (like barcraft), but it could never be transformed into having people play the game itself because there is no medium for us to bring it in.

ander

Canada403 Posts

October 17 2012 06:07 GMT

#111

He mentions how important sales are, and how giving sponsors a good ROI is important. It's important to remember that nearly everyone here, reading this thread on TL and Reddit, is gonna drop $60 for HotS eventually; myself included. Tons of people are gonna buy it. Until that changes, neither will the state of SC2.

I_Destroy

Canada22 Posts

October 17 2012 06:07 GMT

#112

Sadly imo the only way for Blizzard to make a better game would be to have a competitor in the RTS genre. SO they would have to make or patch a be better game but form what I can see that's not happening anytime soon.

phodacbiet

United States1740 Posts

October 17 2012 06:08 GMT

#113

On October 17 2012 15:06 Woizit wrote:
I guess a big problem is how Blizzard depended on the community growing outside of bnet, while relying on bnet as the only means for playing the game. Interest in watching SC2 grew, especially using it as a social point (like barcraft), but it could never be transformed into having people play the game itself because there is no medium for us to bring it in.

Yah they relied on facebook so they integrated facebook onto bnet!

JonIrenicus

Italy602 Posts

October 17 2012 06:08 GMT

#114

--- Nuked ---

StarStruck

25339 Posts

October 17 2012 06:08 GMT

#115

This is just a rehash of a lot of things.

Oh and for those wanting to thank sponsors by emailing them. lol

You do that with your wallet.

Everything else is as is and Destiny's 100k fanfare at that event was an estimate by police officials.

Oh yeah one other thing.

Blizzard still got your money at the end of the day and think about all those extra copies purchased to play on the different servers at the same time. Ties into what I said earlier. You show them with your wallet.

ReachTheSky

United States3294 Posts

October 17 2012 06:08 GMT

#116

So as of late there has been these threads popping up. The varied general message seems to be "the community needs to spread the word, they need to be responsible for growing esports, they need to grow this and that" in a nut shell. These companies/Organizers/personalities that profit off this community should be doing this. Go introduce new potential fans/gamers to starcraft via some sort of convention to bring in new potential fans. This sounds extremely negative, but Its almost sickening that these companies/organizers/personalities are trying to exploit the community to do their dirty work just so they can then cash in on it in the long run. Destiny is right in the aspect that its all about money. Well you want people to do your dirty work then start paying people money to do it.

Now i'm all about "esports" and the sc2 scene getting bigger and growing. I want it to happen. I've even triied to get some real life friends into it. I certainly will not accept that just because i play a game and visit some forum on a frequent basis that these companies/organizers/personalities can make me think its my duty to grow their brand/business.

Go tell people that haven't heard about it, stop preaching to people that already do and you might see some growth in viewership/fanbases.

HaruRH

Singapore2780 Posts

October 17 2012 06:08 GMT

#117

On October 17 2012 14:58 Kambing wrote:

Show nested quote +

But skills from sc2 do translate to LoL/dota. Examples are plentiful, eg: iceiceice (dominated sc2 SEA ladder, now dominates dota 2), fruitdealer (went to LoL), etc

LoL,and dota managed to siphon players from sc2 to them, but sc2 isnt able to attract players from LoL and dota to them.

Champi

1422 Posts

October 17 2012 06:08 GMT

#118

For the most part, i agree

blade55555

United States17423 Posts

October 17 2012 06:08 GMT

#119

While I think saying 2 years and then sc2 will not be considered a competitive game is a bit of a stretch, I do agree that blizzard needs to put more effort into sc2 esports and what not.

I hear about all these features that valve is doing for their game in beta and has more good features then sc2 does. Sc2 still doesn't even have replay sharing,bad ladder maps that rarely get updated.

Blizzard needs to seriously step it up and start making ladder based off of tournaments either GSL or IPL (I don't say MLG because most of their maps are the crappy blizzard ones last I checked).

They need to get cross region support, clan system, I mean I don't get why it has taken them till hots to do this -_-.

larse

1611 Posts

October 17 2012 06:09 GMT

#120

Actually, people disagreed with Destiny's argument.

Most people for the last 2 years have been saying that there are not enough hardcore features and too many casual features. People have been asking for clan, in-game tournament, more stats, more prominent ladder 1v1, and have been criticizing the "dumb-down" of arcade and rearrangement of the order of 1v1, 2v2, 3v3, and 4v4 in the ladder screen.

Now you are blaming Blizzard of not paying attention to casuals. Of course they don't. People didn't ask for casual features but all they have asked are hardcore features. Now you just changed?

Even though I agree that casuals should be the focus rather than the hardcore, SC2's failture is the resulted from people's and the community's own fault that is the constant demand of more hardcore features and the constant blame of SC2's dumb-down features.

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