• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 01:53
CEST 07:53
KST 14:53
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 1 - Final Week6[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall12HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0
Community News
Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed9Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll2Team TLMC #5 - Submission extension2Firefly given lifetime ban by ESIC following match-fixing investigation17$25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced7
StarCraft 2
General
RSL Revival patreon money discussion thread Who will win EWC 2025? Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed Team TLMC #5 - Submission extension The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings
Tourneys
RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event $5,100+ SEL Season 2 Championship (SC: Evo) WardiTV Mondays Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava Mutation # 480 Moths to the Flame Mutation # 479 Worn Out Welcome
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion Flash Announces (and Retracts) Hiatus From ASL Starcraft in widescreen BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ A cwal.gg Extension - Easily keep track of anyone
Tourneys
Cosmonarchy Pro Showmatches [Megathread] Daily Proleagues CSL Xiamen International Invitational [BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile CCLP - Command & Conquer League Project The PlayStation 5
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Summer Games Done Quick 2025! Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 2024 - 2025 Football Thread NBA General Discussion NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Men Take Risks, Women Win Ga…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 468 users

Destiny on where he thinks SC2 is heading. - Page 5

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 103 104 105 Next
Probe1
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States17920 Posts
October 17 2012 05:50 GMT
#81
On October 17 2012 14:44 TheWorldToCome wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 17 2012 14:37 Xxio wrote:
Blizzard should have given Brood War a facelift instead of making StarCraft 2.



At the very least given bnet 1.0 a facelift rather than create bnet 2.0 that pales in comparison to its predecessor.

WORD

There's nothing more telling than the unlikable cluster fuck mess that is bnet 2.0 . They took something decent that was still functional after a decade and introduced something that has never once been described outside their own marketing department as a step forward.

Also I hate to "NOT UNITE FOR A COMMON GOAL" but if Blizzard made SC2 more casual for multiplayer than why on earth would I want to play it? Brood War was successful because it was open to casual players?

Wrong.
우정호 KT_VIOLET 1988 - 2012 While we are postponing, life speeds by
jmbthirteen
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States10734 Posts
October 17 2012 05:50 GMT
#82
On October 17 2012 14:48 TheWorldToCome wrote:
The disconnect between Blizz and the competitive community is going to be the downfall for sure. The fact that we still have shitty map spawn positions and no supply depots on the bottom of ramps in ladder maps is inexcusable 2+ years after launch.

there was no connection between Blizz and competitive play for BW, yet it because huge.
www.superbeerbrothers.com
hagrin
Profile Joined May 2010
United States278 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-17 05:52:05
October 17 2012 05:51 GMT
#83
It's definitely a sad realization, but it's definitely coming true.

We're all here because we love SC/BW/SC2. To see a game that we all wanted to breath new life into the Brood War scene basically not only killed off Brood War, but not translating to a long-term success is really painful for a lot of us to witness. Then, with other companies putting out more attractive/more fun options, the competition has stepped their game up while Blizzard has sort of fumbled away their last two/three releases (WoL/D3/HotS).

I played a game called Asheron's Call for entirely too long - maybe something close to 8 years. I can equate the stagnation in SC2 to a time in AC right before the beginning of the end. Yes, expansions came out which boosted world population numbers, but eventually it just got to a point where populations never exceeded a very low level. SC2 isn't declining yet and it has a few upward bumps left to capitalize on, but SC2 is never going to be the long-term success BW was.

TT.
BreakfastBurrito
Profile Joined November 2011
United States893 Posts
October 17 2012 05:52 GMT
#84
Evolves for life bros. Evolves for life~
twitch.tv/jaytherey | Yapper891 if you are reading this, PM me. its Twisty.
ketomai
Profile Joined June 2007
United States2789 Posts
October 17 2012 05:53 GMT
#85
On October 17 2012 14:50 Probe1 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 17 2012 14:44 TheWorldToCome wrote:
On October 17 2012 14:37 Xxio wrote:
Blizzard should have given Brood War a facelift instead of making StarCraft 2.



At the very least given bnet 1.0 a facelift rather than create bnet 2.0 that pales in comparison to its predecessor.

WORD

There's nothing more telling than the unlikable cluster fuck mess that is bnet 2.0 . They took something decent that was still functional after a decade and introduced something that has never once been described outside their own marketing department as a step forward.

Also I hate to "NOT UNITE FOR A COMMON GOAL" but if Blizzard made SC2 more casual for multiplayer than why on earth would I want to play it? Brood War was successful because it was open to casual players?

Wrong.


He never mentions changing the multiplayer to make it more open to casuals. If you look again, he only suggests things that deal with bnet. The bottomline is: for the game to succeed competitively, it needs to have viewers, and to have viewers, it needs to be a fun experience, which SC2 is not at the moment for many.
Gator
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States3432 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-17 05:54:47
October 17 2012 05:54 GMT
#86
i've played starcraft since i was 10 years old, put about 3000 games into sc2, and been in the HOTS beta since week 2. But here's the kicker, I don't think I'm going to buy HOTS. Sc2 has stagnated so hard, both from gameplay point of view and as a spectator. HOTS seems like just another WoL patch. Starcraft is not as fun as it was a year ago, and my interest in the scene decreases all the time.
TSM
Orracle
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States314 Posts
October 17 2012 05:54 GMT
#87
On October 17 2012 14:49 AndAgain wrote:
I think Destiny doesn't understand the concept of markets. There are games that suit casual players like LoL, and there are games that suit competitive players like SC2. Just because LoL may be more popular doesn't mean there's anything wrong with SC2 being competitive.

It's like how fast food joints are way more popular than steakhouses. That doesn't mean steakhouses should be more like fast food joints.


Ruth's Chris Steakhouse or McDonald's both have one thing in common, they're constantly expanding. There is always a market for their products. Why would pros continue playing SC2 if there is no market? They can transfer to LOL or Dota where there is going to be a lot of money.
MateShade
Profile Joined July 2011
Australia736 Posts
October 17 2012 05:54 GMT
#88
by the way has anybody ever contacted people above the sc2 division in blizzard to voice these concerns? Why are we nagging David Kim and browder when we could try and go above them? Is this not possible to do?
XXXSmOke
Profile Blog Joined November 2004
United States1333 Posts
October 17 2012 05:55 GMT
#89
Good post Catz, you summed up a lot about how I have felt for the last year, where I went from 2000 games in the first year of sc2 to about 100 games in the last year.

One group you did leave out tho is the plat-master guys. There are casuals who like 1v1/watching 1v1 a lot. Our group is severely fucked.

a) Were not paid to play the game, so ladder is a major grind

b) Most of us dont have a team, so the social aspect is fucked.

c) Were supposed to be inspired to keep playing the game by watching the pros, but when the game is bad, its not fun to watch, ad sales suck and then you lose sponsors
Emperor? Boxer disapproves. He's building bunkers at your mom's house even as you're reading this.
freakhill
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Japan463 Posts
October 17 2012 05:55 GMT
#90
Destiny is delivering true words there.
Anecdotal example, I played WC3 for years, perhaps 10 ladder games and all the rest DOTA and other customs.
1v1 ladder is not and will never be for casuals, blizzard should focus on
- improving bnet to at least wc3 level
- improving customs to at least wc3 level
- improving 1v1 to at least bw level, you don't have to care about catching casuals in there, you will fail anyway
moo ForGG, Dragon, MVP, Gumiho, DRG, PartinG, Life]0[!
dizzy101
Profile Joined August 2010
Netherlands2066 Posts
October 17 2012 05:56 GMT
#91
Agreed.

Blizz needs to make SC2 a game that people want to login to daily: to play a few customs, to see what's new, to hang out, to play TEAM games (team=social). How about some Blizz Dota? Ladder should not be the main focus.

Not sure Destiny's suggestions are that important. Achievements or namechanges really aren't gunna change much. It needs a radical overhaul.
sluggaslamoo
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
Australia4494 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-17 05:57:52
October 17 2012 05:56 GMT
#92
The actual game is just boring though, its not a fun game. I think that's all there is to it.

I mean even 2v2v2v2 BGH, its still the same game just different map, BGH/Fastest in SC2 is way more boring.
Come play Android Netrunner - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=409008
Gator
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States3432 Posts
October 17 2012 05:57 GMT
#93
On October 17 2012 14:55 XXXSmOke wrote:
Good post Catz, you summed up a lot about how I have felt for the last year, where I went from 2000 games in the first year of sc2 to about 100 games in the last year.

One group you did leave out tho is the plat-master guys. There are casuals who like 1v1/watching 1v1 a lot. Our group is severely fucked.

a) Were not paid to play the game, so ladder is a major grind

b) Most of us dont have a team, so the social aspect is fucked.

c) Were supposed to be inspired to keep playing the game by watching the pros, but when the game is bad, its not fun to watch, ad sales suck and then you lose sponsors


BOOM, thank you, this sums up my feelings about the game really well
TSM
Kambing
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1176 Posts
October 17 2012 05:58 GMT
#94
On October 17 2012 14:54 Orracle wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 17 2012 14:49 AndAgain wrote:
I think Destiny doesn't understand the concept of markets. There are games that suit casual players like LoL, and there are games that suit competitive players like SC2. Just because LoL may be more popular doesn't mean there's anything wrong with SC2 being competitive.

It's like how fast food joints are way more popular than steakhouses. That doesn't mean steakhouses should be more like fast food joints.


Ruth's Chris Steakhouse or McDonald's both have one thing in common, they're constantly expanding. There is always a market for their products. Why would pros continue playing SC2 if there is no market? They can transfer to LOL or Dota where there is going to be a lot of money.


Eh. By that same logic, why don't all the Major League Soccer players transfer over to the NFL since the NFL is far more successful than MLS?

1. Their talents and skills don't translate well enough to football, or
2. They like soccer more than football.
phodacbiet
Profile Joined August 2010
United States1740 Posts
October 17 2012 05:59 GMT
#95
Well.. one of the problem would be make this game not suck. Seriously the people with "broodwar had 10 years blah blah give sc2 time to grow" or "blizzard knows what they are doing blah blah".. those people are in denial. The metagame is sc2 is slowing down, most game turns into a 15 minutes turtle fest into one big fight into over. There are some game where actions do happen but its usually just a 1a into 1 player getting so ahead that its just playing out. Blizzard currently probably dont even care about sc2, the blizzard that used to be able to make good game is gone, dead, eaten by the cookie monster. Look at blizzard recent releases, wotlk.. d3... panda express.. Seriously, most of these games will have people playing for 1-2 months due to the earlier games but other than that they suck (dont lie to yourself, d3 was the biggest dissapointment since starship troopers 2). My korean friend said he really likes starcraft, but when he go to pc bangs in korea, most/everyone plays LoL. Not because koreans are cheap and can't afford sc2, but because sc2 sucks compared to sc1. If blizzard didnt sue Kespa, BW would still be alive. For everyone that is going to say "well... hots/lotv hasnt come out yet blah blah give blizzard time". Well... did you see the beta? We get the Lurker retard cousin, spider mines are now split off from vultures and are built from factories, firebats got a name change and now come out of factories.. dont even get me started with protoss lol. Seriously, at this point, updating BW graphics to sc2 and then just leave it alone would be blizzard best move, stop trying to make this game any worst (entomb lol).
happyness
Profile Joined June 2010
United States2400 Posts
October 17 2012 05:59 GMT
#96
Hmm, some good points, especially the fact that the game is incredibly non-social. I do not understand at all why we can't have the chat rooms huge and front and center of battle.net like it was with BW, D2, and W3. I actually like arcade though.

The main problem is that we have a much different gaming environment then what existed when BW came out. If BW were to come out today(with better graphics of course) would it be as successful? I don't think so.

LoL is much easier to learn than a standard RTS and free to play. I just simply can't imagine an BW-esque RTS being that successful in today's market.
ReignSupreme.
Profile Blog Joined September 2012
Australia4123 Posts
October 17 2012 05:59 GMT
#97
Pretty great read, can really agree with a lot of points. As for HoTS, I can honestly say that I have absolutely no interest in HoTS multiplayer, and would only consider buying it for the campaign. I also can't imagine splitting a community that thrives on competitive gaming between WoL/HoTS/LotV, really poor decision in my opinion
TheRealPaciFist
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States1049 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-17 06:00:44
October 17 2012 05:59 GMT
#98
On October 17 2012 13:59 Jermman wrote:
So.. if we the viewer can't do anything to help the situation and only blizzard can, what exactly is the point of posting this here. Nothing changes..


Makes for interesting discussion I guess, and maybe encourages people to jump ship to other games and not feel guilty about leaving Starcraft, maybe? As soon as a similar-enough RTS comes on the market.

Strange that he says people lost interest in HotS after one week... I find it way more interesting than WoL, to the point where I can't watch WoL anymore
Second favorite strategy game of all time: Starcraft. First: Go (aka Wei Qi, Paduk, or Igo)
JieXian
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
Malaysia4677 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-17 06:01:01
October 17 2012 05:59 GMT
#99
Makes a lot of sense. I remember playing a lot of UMS in both BW and WC3 too. They had everything going for them with every farmville "gamer" knowing about SC2 but they had no idea what they were doing.

I was so excited about SC2 myself and didn't agree with the the pro MBS people but then I got really bored of it very quickly.

I still want it to work but I'm cynical about Blizz.
Please send me a PM of any song you like that I most probably never heard of! I am looking for people to chat about writing and producing music | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noD-bsOcxuU |
-Kyo-
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Japan1926 Posts
October 17 2012 06:01 GMT
#100
I was too busy re tweeting people didn't even see the thread on TL >.> Reddit actually got me first somehow haha. I agree as I noted there with everything.. Quite sad, but it's the truth. Wake up Blizzard.
Anime is cuter than you. Legacy of the Void GM Protoss Gameplay: twitch.tv/kyo7763 youtube.com/user/KyoStarcraft/
TL+ Member
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 103 104 105 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 4h 7m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Nina 244
StarCraft: Brood War
Noble 42
Bale 5
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm98
ODPixel72
League of Legends
JimRising 845
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K1403
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King156
Other Games
summit1g13372
WinterStarcraft344
Trikslyr35
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick2921
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH382
• Hupsaiya 58
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• iopq 1
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Rush2567
• Lourlo1467
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
4h 7m
WardiTV European League
10h 7m
ShoWTimE vs sebesdes
Percival vs NightPhoenix
Shameless vs Nicoract
Krystianer vs Scarlett
ByuN vs uThermal
Harstem vs HeRoMaRinE
PiGosaur Monday
18h 7m
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
1d 10h
Replay Cast
1d 18h
The PondCast
2 days
WardiTV European League
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
Epic.LAN
3 days
CranKy Ducklings
4 days
[ Show More ]
Epic.LAN
4 days
CSO Contender
4 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
4 days
Bonyth vs Sziky
Dewalt vs Hawk
Hawk vs QiaoGege
Sziky vs Dewalt
Mihu vs Bonyth
Zhanhun vs QiaoGege
QiaoGege vs Fengzi
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
Online Event
5 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
5 days
Bonyth vs Zhanhun
Dewalt vs Mihu
Hawk vs Sziky
Sziky vs QiaoGege
Mihu vs Hawk
Zhanhun vs Dewalt
Fengzi vs Bonyth
Liquipedia Results

Completed

2025 ACS Season 2: Qualifier
RSL Revival: Season 1
Murky Cup #2

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL20 Non-Korean Championship
Championship of Russia 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters

Upcoming

CSL Xiamen Invitational
CSL Xiamen Invitational: ShowMatche
2025 ACS Season 2
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
K-Championship
RSL Revival: Season 2
SEL Season 2 Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
FEL Cracov 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
Underdog Cup #2
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.