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On October 17 2012 14:44 TheWorldToCome wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2012 14:37 Xxio wrote:
Blizzard should have given Brood War a facelift instead of making StarCraft 2. At the very least given bnet 1.0 a facelift rather than create bnet 2.0 that pales in comparison to its predecessor.
WORD
There's nothing more telling than the unlikable cluster fuck mess that is bnet 2.0 . They took something decent that was still functional after a decade and introduced something that has never once been described outside their own marketing department as a step forward.
Also I hate to "NOT UNITE FOR A COMMON GOAL" but if Blizzard made SC2 more casual for multiplayer than why on earth would I want to play it? Brood War was successful because it was open to casual players?
Wrong.
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On October 17 2012 14:48 TheWorldToCome wrote:
The disconnect between Blizz and the competitive community is going to be the downfall for sure. The fact that we still have shitty map spawn positions and no supply depots on the bottom of ramps in ladder maps is inexcusable 2+ years after launch.
there was no connection between Blizz and competitive play for BW, yet it because huge.
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It's definitely a sad realization, but it's definitely coming true.
We're all here because we love SC/BW/SC2. To see a game that we all wanted to breath new life into the Brood War scene basically not only killed off Brood War, but not translating to a long-term success is really painful for a lot of us to witness. Then, with other companies putting out more attractive/more fun options, the competition has stepped their game up while Blizzard has sort of fumbled away their last two/three releases (WoL/D3/HotS).
I played a game called Asheron's Call for entirely too long - maybe something close to 8 years. I can equate the stagnation in SC2 to a time in AC right before the beginning of the end. Yes, expansions came out which boosted world population numbers, but eventually it just got to a point where populations never exceeded a very low level. SC2 isn't declining yet and it has a few upward bumps left to capitalize on, but SC2 is never going to be the long-term success BW was.
TT.
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Evolves for life bros. Evolves for life~
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On October 17 2012 14:50 Probe1 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2012 14:44 TheWorldToCome wrote:On October 17 2012 14:37 Xxio wrote:
Blizzard should have given Brood War a facelift instead of making StarCraft 2. At the very least given bnet 1.0 a facelift rather than create bnet 2.0 that pales in comparison to its predecessor. WORDThere's nothing more telling than the unlikable cluster fuck mess that is bnet 2.0 . They took something decent that was still functional after a decade and introduced something that has never once been described outside their own marketing department as a step forward. Also I hate to "NOT UNITE FOR A COMMON GOAL" but if Blizzard made SC2 more casual for multiplayer than why on earth would I want to play it? Brood War was successful because it was open to casual players? Wrong.
He never mentions changing the multiplayer to make it more open to casuals. If you look again, he only suggests things that deal with bnet. The bottomline is: for the game to succeed competitively, it needs to have viewers, and to have viewers, it needs to be a fun experience, which SC2 is not at the moment for many.
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i've played starcraft since i was 10 years old, put about 3000 games into sc2, and been in the HOTS beta since week 2. But here's the kicker, I don't think I'm going to buy HOTS. Sc2 has stagnated so hard, both from gameplay point of view and as a spectator. HOTS seems like just another WoL patch. Starcraft is not as fun as it was a year ago, and my interest in the scene decreases all the time.
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On October 17 2012 14:49 AndAgain wrote:
I think Destiny doesn't understand the concept of markets. There are games that suit casual players like LoL, and there are games that suit competitive players like SC2. Just because LoL may be more popular doesn't mean there's anything wrong with SC2 being competitive.
It's like how fast food joints are way more popular than steakhouses. That doesn't mean steakhouses should be more like fast food joints.
Ruth's Chris Steakhouse or McDonald's both have one thing in common, they're constantly expanding. There is always a market for their products. Why would pros continue playing SC2 if there is no market? They can transfer to LOL or Dota where there is going to be a lot of money.
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by the way has anybody ever contacted people above the sc2 division in blizzard to voice these concerns? Why are we nagging David Kim and browder when we could try and go above them? Is this not possible to do?
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Good post Catz, you summed up a lot about how I have felt for the last year, where I went from 2000 games in the first year of sc2 to about 100 games in the last year.
One group you did leave out tho is the plat-master guys. There are casuals who like 1v1/watching 1v1 a lot. Our group is severely fucked.
a) Were not paid to play the game, so ladder is a major grind
b) Most of us dont have a team, so the social aspect is fucked.
c) Were supposed to be inspired to keep playing the game by watching the pros, but when the game is bad, its not fun to watch, ad sales suck and then you lose sponsors
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Destiny is delivering true words there.
Anecdotal example, I played WC3 for years, perhaps 10 ladder games and all the rest DOTA and other customs.
1v1 ladder is not and will never be for casuals, blizzard should focus on
- improving bnet to at least wc3 level
- improving customs to at least wc3 level
- improving 1v1 to at least bw level, you don't have to care about catching casuals in there, you will fail anyway
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Agreed.
Blizz needs to make SC2 a game that people want to login to daily: to play a few customs, to see what's new, to hang out, to play TEAM games (team=social). How about some Blizz Dota? Ladder should not be the main focus.
Not sure Destiny's suggestions are that important. Achievements or namechanges really aren't gunna change much. It needs a radical overhaul.
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The actual game is just boring though, its not a fun game. I think that's all there is to it.
I mean even 2v2v2v2 BGH, its still the same game just different map, BGH/Fastest in SC2 is way more boring.
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On October 17 2012 14:55 XXXSmOke wrote:
Good post Catz, you summed up a lot about how I have felt for the last year, where I went from 2000 games in the first year of sc2 to about 100 games in the last year.
One group you did leave out tho is the plat-master guys. There are casuals who like 1v1/watching 1v1 a lot. Our group is severely fucked.
a) Were not paid to play the game, so ladder is a major grind
b) Most of us dont have a team, so the social aspect is fucked.
c) Were supposed to be inspired to keep playing the game by watching the pros, but when the game is bad, its not fun to watch, ad sales suck and then you lose sponsors
BOOM, thank you, this sums up my feelings about the game really well
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On October 17 2012 14:54 Orracle wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2012 14:49 AndAgain wrote:
I think Destiny doesn't understand the concept of markets. There are games that suit casual players like LoL, and there are games that suit competitive players like SC2. Just because LoL may be more popular doesn't mean there's anything wrong with SC2 being competitive.
It's like how fast food joints are way more popular than steakhouses. That doesn't mean steakhouses should be more like fast food joints. Ruth's Chris Steakhouse or McDonald's both have one thing in common, they're constantly expanding. There is always a market for their products. Why would pros continue playing SC2 if there is no market? They can transfer to LOL or Dota where there is going to be a lot of money.
Eh. By that same logic, why don't all the Major League Soccer players transfer over to the NFL since the NFL is far more successful than MLS?
1. Their talents and skills don't translate well enough to football, or
2. They like soccer more than football.
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Well.. one of the problem would be make this game not suck. Seriously the people with "broodwar had 10 years blah blah give sc2 time to grow" or "blizzard knows what they are doing blah blah".. those people are in denial. The metagame is sc2 is slowing down, most game turns into a 15 minutes turtle fest into one big fight into over. There are some game where actions do happen but its usually just a 1a into 1 player getting so ahead that its just playing out. Blizzard currently probably dont even care about sc2, the blizzard that used to be able to make good game is gone, dead, eaten by the cookie monster. Look at blizzard recent releases, wotlk.. d3... panda express.. Seriously, most of these games will have people playing for 1-2 months due to the earlier games but other than that they suck (dont lie to yourself, d3 was the biggest dissapointment since starship troopers 2). My korean friend said he really likes starcraft, but when he go to pc bangs in korea, most/everyone plays LoL. Not because koreans are cheap and can't afford sc2, but because sc2 sucks compared to sc1. If blizzard didnt sue Kespa, BW would still be alive. For everyone that is going to say "well... hots/lotv hasnt come out yet blah blah give blizzard time". Well... did you see the beta? We get the Lurker retard cousin, spider mines are now split off from vultures and are built from factories, firebats got a name change and now come out of factories.. dont even get me started with protoss lol. Seriously, at this point, updating BW graphics to sc2 and then just leave it alone would be blizzard best move, stop trying to make this game any worst (entomb lol).
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Hmm, some good points, especially the fact that the game is incredibly non-social. I do not understand at all why we can't have the chat rooms huge and front and center of battle.net like it was with BW, D2, and W3. I actually like arcade though.
The main problem is that we have a much different gaming environment then what existed when BW came out. If BW were to come out today(with better graphics of course) would it be as successful? I don't think so.
LoL is much easier to learn than a standard RTS and free to play. I just simply can't imagine an BW-esque RTS being that successful in today's market.
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Pretty great read, can really agree with a lot of points. As for HoTS, I can honestly say that I have absolutely no interest in HoTS multiplayer, and would only consider buying it for the campaign. I also can't imagine splitting a community that thrives on competitive gaming between WoL/HoTS/LotV, really poor decision in my opinion
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On October 17 2012 13:59 Jermman wrote:
So.. if we the viewer can't do anything to help the situation and only blizzard can, what exactly is the point of posting this here. Nothing changes..
Makes for interesting discussion I guess, and maybe encourages people to jump ship to other games and not feel guilty about leaving Starcraft, maybe? As soon as a similar-enough RTS comes on the market.
Strange that he says people lost interest in HotS after one week... I find it way more interesting than WoL, to the point where I can't watch WoL anymore
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Makes a lot of sense. I remember playing a lot of UMS in both BW and WC3 too. They had everything going for them with every farmville "gamer" knowing about SC2 but they had no idea what they were doing.
I was so excited about SC2 myself and didn't agree with the the pro MBS people but then I got really bored of it very quickly.
I still want it to work but I'm cynical about Blizz.
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I was too busy re tweeting people didn't even see the thread on TL >.> Reddit actually got me first somehow haha. I agree as I noted there with everything.. Quite sad, but it's the truth. Wake up Blizzard.
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WCS
