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On September 27 2012 00:54 NexRex wrote:
Hmm, wasn't going to watch due to PPV anyway, but I completely understand ESF declining. They were the ones that have been part of the SC2 scene longer and put more work into it and they got gypped in the number of spots.
This is my impression as well, I just wasn't very jazzed up to dole out more money for lackluster casters (no offense Axeltoss and Axslav) and for a seemingly wildly imbalanced player pool in terms of invites (even though there are some great names in there).
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uh... coz it's MLG vs KESPA. MLG invites (includes esf) get half, kespa get the other half of the invites. please read first before commenting.
Thank you, everyone's literate here. People are asking why it had to be that way.
I don't care much since I am not going watch ppv, like, never ever. But I am happy ESF is fighting back.
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On September 27 2012 01:46 aristarchus wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2012 01:42 AlmondCS wrote:On September 27 2012 01:24 Burns wrote:
There has to be a reason for MLG inviting that many kespa players over esf players. I expect an announcement from mlg soon then, hopefully they have a solid reasoning other then kespa players are more attractive. uh... coz it's MLG vs KESPA. MLG invites (includes esf) get half, kespa get the other half of the invites. please read first before commenting. Right, but they *chose* to make it that way. There was no reason they had to do that. What if MLG decided to make a big "EG vs. the world" tournament, where half the players were EG. And there was a lot of money and qualifiers to their main tournament. And there was a rule stating that half the qualifiers would go to EG players no matter how badly they did. And it turns out they did it because EG promised never to go to IPL in exchange. Would the community not go insane?
uh... whats your point? esf/gsl also get to decide who they invite to their tournament. they give foreign players seeds even though they didnt go through the qualifiers. GSL "chose" to make it that way too. so whats the problem here? its the choice of MLG! dont go all crazy saying it's unfair.
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On September 27 2012 01:43 Condor Hero wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2012 01:25 Lonyo wrote:On September 27 2012 01:24 Burns wrote:
There has to be a reason for MLG inviting that many kespa players over esf players. I expect an announcement from mlg soon then, hopefully they have a solid reasoning other then kespa players are more attractive. Yes, the reasoning is... Kespa and MLG have a partnership. Lol it is quite ironic because the first GOM/MLG partnership had 4 Koreans each seeded into super protective pools with all travel expenses paid and ESF teams back then didn't complain about biased seeding.
The stakes were different back then. MLG before the GOM deal was strictly foreigners and wasn't watched that much because the GOM Koreans were so superior that MLG simply couldn't generate intrigue. Now they have GOM Koreans in their tournaments but are trying to trade them for all these new KESPA players. This is like a boyfriend cheating on his girl with the new girl that just moved into town. ESF has been there, and is basically the main reason MLG Starcraft is so much better than before, but now they are shafting ESF for all the new KESPA players.
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Kinda nice, don't care too much though, because i would not have watched it anyway.
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On September 27 2012 01:53 AlmondCS wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2012 01:46 aristarchus wrote:On September 27 2012 01:42 AlmondCS wrote:On September 27 2012 01:24 Burns wrote:
There has to be a reason for MLG inviting that many kespa players over esf players. I expect an announcement from mlg soon then, hopefully they have a solid reasoning other then kespa players are more attractive. uh... coz it's MLG vs KESPA. MLG invites (includes esf) get half, kespa get the other half of the invites. please read first before commenting. Right, but they *chose* to make it that way. There was no reason they had to do that. What if MLG decided to make a big "EG vs. the world" tournament, where half the players were EG. And there was a lot of money and qualifiers to their main tournament. And there was a rule stating that half the qualifiers would go to EG players no matter how badly they did. And it turns out they did it because EG promised never to go to IPL in exchange. Would the community not go insane? uh... whats your point? esf/gsl also get to decide who they invite to their tournament. they give foreign players seeds even though they didnt go through the qualifiers. GSL "chose" to make it that way too. so whats the problem here? its the choice of MLG! dont go all crazy saying it's unfair.
And those seeds are unfair too! But they given them to people who have won major tournaments and don't seem to be particularly biased about them. And there are 2 seeds. I've criticized those plenty too, but trying to pretend they are roughly equivalent is absolutely insane. This is orders of magnitude worse, and it's clearly intended to shut down a meaningful portion of the sc2 scene.
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On September 27 2012 01:52 Sejanus wrote:Show nested quote +uh... coz it's MLG vs KESPA. MLG invites (includes esf) get half, kespa get the other half of the invites. please read first before commenting.
Thank you, everyone's literate here. People are asking why it had to be that way. I don't care much since I am not going watch ppv, like, never ever. But I am happy ESF is fighting back.
because MLG strikes a deal with KeSPA and they show support toward their partner? It's none of eSF's business here. They start to bite the dust cuz of inferior popularity (which they just cant help against) so it's time to be jealous right?
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On September 27 2012 01:54 Wingblade wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2012 01:43 Condor Hero wrote:On September 27 2012 01:25 Lonyo wrote:On September 27 2012 01:24 Burns wrote:
There has to be a reason for MLG inviting that many kespa players over esf players. I expect an announcement from mlg soon then, hopefully they have a solid reasoning other then kespa players are more attractive. Yes, the reasoning is... Kespa and MLG have a partnership. Lol it is quite ironic because the first GOM/MLG partnership had 4 Koreans each seeded into super protective pools with all travel expenses paid and ESF teams back then didn't complain about biased seeding. The stakes were different back then. MLG before the GOM deal was strictly foreigners and wasn't watched that much because the GOM Koreans were so superior that MLG simply couldn't generate intrigue. Now they have GOM Koreans in their tournaments but are trying to trade them for all these new KESPA players. This is like a boyfriend cheating on his girl with the new girl that just moved into town. ESF has been there, and is basically the main reason MLG Starcraft is so much better than before, but now they are shafting ESF for all the new KESPA players.
Yeah I get it, ESF players are pissed they aren't the exciting new things now.
Doesn't change the fact it's hypocritical.
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On September 27 2012 01:42 AlmondCS wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2012 01:24 Burns wrote:
There has to be a reason for MLG inviting that many kespa players over esf players. I expect an announcement from mlg soon then, hopefully they have a solid reasoning other then kespa players are more attractive. uh... coz it's MLG vs KESPA. MLG invites (includes esf) get half, kespa get the other half of the invites. please read first before commenting.
But there is no thing such as MLG players. MLG players in this tournament is everybody except the players on Kespa. Thats just a term they made up to market this event.
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On September 27 2012 01:53 AlmondCS wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2012 01:46 aristarchus wrote:On September 27 2012 01:42 AlmondCS wrote:On September 27 2012 01:24 Burns wrote:
There has to be a reason for MLG inviting that many kespa players over esf players. I expect an announcement from mlg soon then, hopefully they have a solid reasoning other then kespa players are more attractive. uh... coz it's MLG vs KESPA. MLG invites (includes esf) get half, kespa get the other half of the invites. please read first before commenting. Right, but they *chose* to make it that way. There was no reason they had to do that. What if MLG decided to make a big "EG vs. the world" tournament, where half the players were EG. And there was a lot of money and qualifiers to their main tournament. And there was a rule stating that half the qualifiers would go to EG players no matter how badly they did. And it turns out they did it because EG promised never to go to IPL in exchange. Would the community not go insane? uh... whats your point? esf/gsl also get to decide who they invite to their tournament. they give foreign players seeds even though they didnt go through the qualifiers. GSL "chose" to make it that way too. so whats the problem here? its the choice of MLG! dont go all crazy saying it's unfair.
The difference between GSL inviting foreigners and MLG inviting way more KESPA players is that GOM and KESPA are both Korean based groups. MLG has basically hand picked all these Koreans from KESPA, while short hanging the GOM players who have been with MLG for so long.
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On September 27 2012 00:56 CosmicSpiral wrote:I'll just repost my Reddit comment on this topic: Show nested quote +MLG screwed them over here and the e-Sports Federation doesn't have nearly the same influence as KeSPA. This is one of their few ways of protesting that won't end up as mere hot air. Show nested quote +Let's see: - With the exception of the invited eSF players, all other eSF players have to play through two qualifiers against their fellow brethren. Only 8 players out of 58+ successfully got through the first qualifier; only 3 players out of 30 will qualify past the second. If we assume equal skill among all the participants and account for matchups and bracket possibilities, a player going through the two qualifiers has a lovely 1.38% chance of actually making it to the Fall Championship (the chances are slightly higher if double elimination format is involved). Of course your chances increase with your skill level, but all it takes is one bad Bo3 to ruin your shot. KR online tournaments are notorious for having lesser-known players knock out the big guns early in the brackets.
- Meanwhile 24 KeSPA players got invited (i.e didn't have to qualify in any shape or form) to a 48-player invitational in which the top 8 get seeded into the Fall Championship. Judging from their current skill level and the skill level of their foreign competition (we could pretend that foreigners and Koreans are on a equal skill in the general sense, but let's not entertain fantasies here), it's likely that 5-7 of the seeds will be grabbed by KeSPA players. Since it's a Bo1 repeated 24 times, anomalies are far less problematic since they have less impact on overall results.
- The winner of the MvP Invitational gets $10,000 and a seed to the Fall Championship. The winner of the KR/TW Invite-Only Qualifiers gets a seed into the Fall Championship and $0. If he was a winner of the Open Online Qualifiers, he would have played harder competition for worse rewards.
- Historically KeSPA has barely lifted a finger to earn the favor of the international community. The MvP Invitational is not an example of "reaching out of the community", but looks suspiciously like KeSPA having their cake and eating it too. They get a tournament with stacked odds that showcase their players, a bizarre mixture of a showmatch and a qualifier that does not match the criteria of either.
So yes, eSF members are getting fucked over. They are playing harder qualifiers for less profit and smaller chances of actually qualifying for the Fall Championship, all this with 3x the participants. If worst comes to worst they will actually get less seeds to the tournament as well.
Why am I not surprised by this... MLG tries always to bring the biggest players to the top, even to the extent of hurting their integrity as a competition. Its why I never pay for any MLG event.
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It's none of eSF's business here.
Yes sure because ESF players participating in MLG events for the last year have nothing to do with the popularity MLG can enjoy now.
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Well this is disappointing
Hopefully one party decides to change so we can have everyone show up.. 
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On September 27 2012 01:55 Condor Hero wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2012 01:54 Wingblade wrote:On September 27 2012 01:43 Condor Hero wrote:On September 27 2012 01:25 Lonyo wrote:On September 27 2012 01:24 Burns wrote:
There has to be a reason for MLG inviting that many kespa players over esf players. I expect an announcement from mlg soon then, hopefully they have a solid reasoning other then kespa players are more attractive. Yes, the reasoning is... Kespa and MLG have a partnership. Lol it is quite ironic because the first GOM/MLG partnership had 4 Koreans each seeded into super protective pools with all travel expenses paid and ESF teams back then didn't complain about biased seeding. The stakes were different back then. MLG before the GOM deal was strictly foreigners and wasn't watched that much because the GOM Koreans were so superior that MLG simply couldn't generate intrigue. Now they have GOM Koreans in their tournaments but are trying to trade them for all these new KESPA players. This is like a boyfriend cheating on his girl with the new girl that just moved into town. ESF has been there, and is basically the main reason MLG Starcraft is so much better than before, but now they are shafting ESF for all the new KESPA players. Yeah I get it, ESF players are pissed they aren't the exciting new things now. Doesn't change the fact it's hypocritical.
Actually it does, there's a huge difference between choosing to invite Korean players for the first time, and deciding to invite a heavy majority in favor of one group of Koreans(KESPA) over the other(GOM).
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Although i think it's good, i also understand why there are less GSL players. You know, MLG already named it MLG vs Proleague, so they can't give them as much slots as for the Kespa players.
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On September 27 2012 01:46 aristarchus wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2012 01:42 AlmondCS wrote:On September 27 2012 01:24 Burns wrote:
There has to be a reason for MLG inviting that many kespa players over esf players. I expect an announcement from mlg soon then, hopefully they have a solid reasoning other then kespa players are more attractive. uh... coz it's MLG vs KESPA. MLG invites (includes esf) get half, kespa get the other half of the invites. please read first before commenting. Right, but they *chose* to make it that way. There was no reason they had to do that. What if MLG decided to make a big "EG vs. the world" tournament, where half the players were EG. And there was a lot of money and qualifiers to their main tournament. And there was a rule stating that half the qualifiers would go to EG players no matter how badly they did. And it turns out they did it because EG promised never to go to IPL in exchange. Would the community not go insane?
yea. they chose to make it that way. It's a partnership. Why would Kespa agree to having less than half of the representation?
eSF can form another tournament with another partnership with anyone. No one has stopped them with having deals with others. I'll just quote this:
On September 27 2012 01:46 Kenpark wrote:
I think MLG has some sort of exclusive deal with Kespa, where they only attend MGLs and no other foreign tournaments. And this was prob in response to IPLs connection to GSL( GSTL Final at IPL4, Team World vs GSL, GSL RO8(?) etc at IPL5)
Why doesn't anyone have a problem with those and has a problem with this? I have no problem with both. It's just stupid taking sides.
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If there was no event like this they would have just seeded 8 Kespa players into the main tournament anyway like they were planning to do for Raleigh before Kespa decided to not send any players. Yeah this is a silly way to select which of them are going to get seeded in but it was going to happen no matter what.
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If it didn't have implications on the MLG Fall Championship - I doubt it would be anywhere near as big a deal.
Seems MLG are just intimidated by KeSPA and forgot who helped push them from $5,000 1st place prizes to $25,000 1st place prizes.
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On September 27 2012 01:59 Wingblade wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2012 01:55 Condor Hero wrote:On September 27 2012 01:54 Wingblade wrote:On September 27 2012 01:43 Condor Hero wrote:On September 27 2012 01:25 Lonyo wrote:On September 27 2012 01:24 Burns wrote:
There has to be a reason for MLG inviting that many kespa players over esf players. I expect an announcement from mlg soon then, hopefully they have a solid reasoning other then kespa players are more attractive. Yes, the reasoning is... Kespa and MLG have a partnership. Lol it is quite ironic because the first GOM/MLG partnership had 4 Koreans each seeded into super protective pools with all travel expenses paid and ESF teams back then didn't complain about biased seeding. The stakes were different back then. MLG before the GOM deal was strictly foreigners and wasn't watched that much because the GOM Koreans were so superior that MLG simply couldn't generate intrigue. Now they have GOM Koreans in their tournaments but are trying to trade them for all these new KESPA players. This is like a boyfriend cheating on his girl with the new girl that just moved into town. ESF has been there, and is basically the main reason MLG Starcraft is so much better than before, but now they are shafting ESF for all the new KESPA players. Yeah I get it, ESF players are pissed they aren't the exciting new things now. Doesn't change the fact it's hypocritical. Actually it does, there's a huge difference between choosing to invite Korean players for the first time, and deciding to invite a heavy majority in favor of one group of Koreans(KESPA) over the other(GOM).
It's called MLG vs Proleague.
I thought it was dumb to invite so many NA players too cuz they would just get smashed but that's a discussion for another day.
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This PPV tournament is turning into a nightmare for mlg...
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EPT
