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On September 15 2012 17:09 Dasian wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2012 16:54 paralleluniverse wrote:
All times in the game including those on the clock and the tooltips should be rescaled to real time on the fastest setting. The reason this issue is more complicated than it sounds is because of two things: -Build times of in-game structures and units are all integer values based off of game-time. -Games can be played at different speeds. I believe trying to sync the game's time with real-time is a complete waste of development time. It would require converting all unit/building build times (which are all round numbers) to obscure time values. For example, a Hatechery that takes 100 gametime seconds to build would be changed to something like 73.53 second build time. (not sure about that calculation) On top of that, slower game speeds would still not represent real-time, so the only thing it would accomplish would be making build times sound more complicated. The point of this suggestion is to give people the choice of having a real-time clock without having to completely overhaul code built into the game engine. It would also be good for casual spectators. I'd imagine casted games would have the counter disabled and the real-time clock enabled. Where players may have a preference one way or another.
But nothing actually changes about the game. It would just be the tooltip, which should probably be rounded to 1 dp.
So the only change would be along the lines of writing the hatchery build time as 73.5 instead of 100. The only objection I can think of is that it doesn't look as nice. But "wrong" tooltips also don't look nice.
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On September 15 2012 16:10 MadJack wrote:
Exactly what this game needed, to become even more easier. Good Job.
lol
what is the problem with you guys?
I mean come on just changing the time into a counter doesn't make it easier to play the game it just gives new possibilities.
I assure you that noone (no not even pros) was actually calculating when exactly an upgrade finished
they just check all the time if it is finished yet.
but calculating when it finishes and then remembering it so you have the perfect timing without wasting apm doesn't make the game any easier it just opens new possibilities
great idea imo
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United Kingdom14103 Posts
Personally I wouldn't be able to use this feature as my brain is so accustomed to adding to the time and not to a whole number; I wouldn't be able to look at the counter as a time.
If there was an option that allowed you to choose between counter and clock I would totally support this though, no need to say no to something just because I don't like it.
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So your solution... is to have two clocks. I think this will only just make things more confusing for spectators and new players. No one used to ever complain about video game clocks not counting real seconds back in the day, despite it happening all the time in almost every single game. The game shows the game clock, which is what is actually relevant to the game(and can scale with speed setting), it doesn't need to show real time, that's what physical clocks are for.
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On September 15 2012 16:45 NeonFox wrote:
Honestly I would find this much harder and confusing than a regular clock.
My thoughts too, it is really not that hard to just do a quick mental calculation as to what time your upgrade will finish (or you could just repeatedly babysit the upgrade by looking at how far the bar has progressed lol)
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but what if I wanted to send in my over at let's say 6:30, I would then have to convert that into the game time counter number which I think would be a lot harder...
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On September 15 2012 16:04 Dasian wrote:
2-Add a real-time clock option as well
-This clock wouldn't be synced with the game outside of pauses.
-Since games can be played at different speeds, any games played at non-faster
speeds would have different time benchmarks, but who cares? The game-time counter will provide consistency across different game speeds.
-Replays would show the real-time clock as it was, depending on the game speed.
(Not sure this would be easy to do, the counter alone would probably be enough)
So why even put this clock in?
Real time doesn't actually help you in the game, since all the times use game-time instead (for good reason).
As for my opinion: No, this is a terrible idea.
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On September 15 2012 16:10 MadJack wrote:
Exactly what this game needed, to become even more easier. Good Job.
I'm so tired of this stupid comment. If this game is so fu**ing easy, why don't you win some GSL's? -.-
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On September 15 2012 18:55 bLooD. wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2012 16:10 MadJack wrote:
Exactly what this game needed, to become even more easier. Good Job. I'm so tired of this stupid comment. If this game is so fu**ing easy, why don't you win some GSL's? -.-
The problem isn't that the game is too easy for ME, the problem is that the game is too easy for the noobs in platinum that keep beating me all the time. Without changes like this, I would be able to roflstomp them with my superior skill. How come no one can understand that this activision ezz-mode business plan completely ruins the competetive aspect of e-sports??
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On September 15 2012 18:55 bLooD. wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2012 16:10 MadJack wrote:
Exactly what this game needed, to become even more easier. Good Job. I'm so tired of this stupid comment. If this game is so fu**ing easy, why don't you win some GSL's? -.-
Because everybody is playing the same, easy game. What an intelligent question :D
+ Show Spoiler +I don't think it is easy at all.
Two clocks are obviously too confusing. I think the real time clock would be the best way. It is especially good for new players and spectators.
The problem of learning "new timings" is only half true in my opinion.
You don't look on the ingame time and say: oh, it is xx:xx, in the next 3 minutes there are broodlords.
When you play, you develop some kind of "starsense" and know, based on what you have scouted and how the game went until now, what can happen in the next minutes.
And pros dont start their upgrades by calculating the time when they are ready, but by tabbing through all control groups and checking their upgrading structures frequently.
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On a serious note, I don't think this change to the game timer would make things any easier. However cumbersome this stupid 60-seconds-in-a-minute is, it is simple not worth the effort to relearn how we measure time just for sc2. It would be like take someone used to measure length in inches and yards, and force them to learn metric in diablo, despite the fact that they never use those units otherwise.
Yes, the system you suggest makes more sense on paper, but no, it is not worth the effort to relearn your intuition just for a computer game.
If you suggest to divide the day into decidays, centidays and milliday on a general basis, I am behind you no problem. But using two systems (RL vs sc2) to measure time is even more cumbersome than using just one of them everywhere, even if it happens to be the one that makes least sense.
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They just need to implement real-time before HOTS builds start getting solidified.
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On September 15 2012 19:06 graNite wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2012 18:55 bLooD. wrote:On September 15 2012 16:10 MadJack wrote:
Exactly what this game needed, to become even more easier. Good Job. I'm so tired of this stupid comment. If this game is so fu**ing easy, why don't you win some GSL's? -.- Because everybody is playing the same, easy game. What an intelligent question :D + Show Spoiler +I don't think it is easy at all. Two clocks are obviously too confusing. I think the real time clock would be the best way. It is especially good for new players and spectators. The problem of learning "new timings" is only half true in my opinion. You don't look on the ingame time and say: oh, it is xx:xx, in the next 3 minutes there are broodlords. When you play, you develop some kind of "starsense" and know, based on what you have scouted and how the game went until now, what can happen in the next minutes. And pros dont start their upgrades by calculating the time when they are ready, but by tabbing through all control groups and checking their upgrading structures frequently.
Actually plenty of players, including pros look down at the game clock and think "hmm its 14 minutes in, better get ready to make some vikings to counter those broodlords that will appear in a few minutes". When you scout and see no expansion, first thing you should do is look at the clock, if it says 4:00 then no big deal if it says 4:30 then start to worry about aggression etc. Knowing exactly how far in to a game you are helps you make decisions based on what you observe.
See no expansion, see that its only 6:45 in to the game, you know that DT's aren't gonna be out yet. I certainly use the clock a lot to help me make informed decisions, I would bet the bank that players much better than I use it even more often and better. Such as scouting a nexus that is 10 seconds in to building and then knowing exactly when to hit with ur army so that it finishes, while you may have "starsense" that allows you to know exactly how long has passed, most people don't.
Plus, I think you are confusing what starsense is and how it is triggered. Knowing exactly how far in to the game you are, i.e looking at the clock, means that you can narrow down the options right away. If you turned off the game clock and played, I promise you that you would think you are 5 minutes in to a game and that DT's won't be ready yet, then 2 secs later a DT rips up ur mineral line. Especially in a game where game-time and real time are different.
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On September 15 2012 18:05 Antimatterz wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2012 16:45 NeonFox wrote:
Honestly I would find this much harder and confusing than a regular clock. My thoughts too, it is really not that hard to just do a quick mental calculation as to what time your upgrade will finish (or you could just repeatedly babysit the upgrade by looking at how far the bar has progressed lol)
Yeah, you just get the feel after a while anyways. We may be biased in a way because we play zerg and since everytime you inject your cam goes back to the queens and since tech buildings are typically built next to the hatcheries, you see the progress bars on them. Maybe from a terran or protoss perspective it is harder, even though protoss chronoboost the upgrades qo they should see the progress regularly as well.
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Really neat idea, has my fullest support.
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I really have no problems adding 220 seconds to a gametime, I like it the way it is.
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I like this idea. Couldn't give a shit about real time, doesn't impact the game in any way other than screw up peoples knowledge of timings for a few weeks
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Blizzard would obviously just want to switch to real time seconds now.
But the problem is that a) as they said their entire engine is based one these game time seconds and it is probably at least some struggle to change all of that and
b) it's gonna be kinda stupid to adjust the values now. I mean fungal lasts what, 4 seconds? So 4*1.3 = 5.2s? I highly doubt Blizzard would like values like this.
So then it becomes rounding and that does change the Balance from what it currently is. Even if it's just minor it may be minor in MANY cases.
Still, I hope we'll see the switch :/
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Makes proper timings way too easy imo. I don't like the clock either.
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EPT
