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MLG vs Proleague Invitational and MLG Fall Season - Page 13

Forum Index > SC2 General
449 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 11 12 13 14 15 23 Next All
ShowTheLights
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
Korea (South)1689 Posts
September 13 2012 19:36 GMT
#241
No Leta
•••Acer.MMA••• <> KT_Puzzle <> JinAir•GreenWings_CoCa <> CJ_herO <> Axiom CranK & Ryung <> IM_Seed <> IM_Squirtle <> le' ToD <> Innovation <> ROOT_CatZ <> inuh! <> Chobra <> SKT1_Fantasy
Aegeis
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States1619 Posts
September 13 2012 19:36 GMT
#242
This looks like the end of the Arena at least for this year, it's for the best.
"Skills to pay the bills" - Artosis, https://twitter.com/AegeisSC2 ,http://www.tumblr.com/blog/socal-esports
Megiddosc
Profile Joined April 2011
United States966 Posts
September 13 2012 19:38 GMT
#243
On September 14 2012 04:35 aristarchus wrote:
So I'm not surprised at all, but it's really disappointing to see the favorable treatment being given to Kespa players. 24 spots for Kespa, 6 for the rest of Korea? That's just a guarantee that no matter what the actual balance of skill is, 80% of the Koreans will be Kespa.

I think having the top 8 of Raleigh (who are all non-KeSPA Korean players) being seeded into group play for Dallas helps balance it. In the end, only 4 KeSPA players will advance to group play from this tournament after all.
Morieris
Profile Joined February 2012
4 Posts
September 13 2012 19:41 GMT
#244
On September 14 2012 04:35 aristarchus wrote:
So I'm not surprised at all, but it's really disappointing to see the favorable treatment being given to Kespa players. 24 spots for Kespa, 6 for the rest of Korea? That's just a guarantee that no matter what the actual balance of skill is, 80% of the Koreans will be Kespa. There is absolutely no fairness-based justification for that. It's just Kespa throwing its weight around and MLG deciding to do whatever gets it the most viewers/money. That's how you run a reality TV show, not a legitimate sport.

I really think the community needs to start seeing starcraft as more of a sport. There's room for debate about some format details (separating qualifiers by region, for example), but no tournament that gives players advantages in the competition because of their fame or money or what company they work for should be seen as a "major" by the community.

Why are we really upset when Kespa boycotts GSL, but not upset at all when they push the other Koreans out of MLG? Are we really dumb enough that only pushing them 80% of the way out fools us?


You do know MLG is partnered with Kespa, right? And that the event is called MLG vs Proleague. You also do realize this is a special event before the Fall Championship, which will once again be open to anyone who would like to play in it. MLG isn't pushing out non-Kespa players at all. They are putting this event on in an attempt to give people what they want to see, Kespa players in a legitimate tournament that involves non-Kespa players. They are pushing NA players with more spots most likely because it's an NA-based company, and it gives the NA players a chance to step up and legitimize themselves.
Uquu
Profile Joined April 2011
Finland474 Posts
September 13 2012 19:45 GMT
#245
This is gonna be awesome, too bad i cant attend there, jealous for you 'Mericans!
|| Thorzain || Grubby || NesTea || Jaedong || Flash || Ferrari_430 ||
MLG_Adam
Profile Joined July 2010
United States994 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-13 19:49:59
September 13 2012 19:48 GMT
#246
On September 14 2012 04:41 Morieris wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 14 2012 04:35 aristarchus wrote:
So I'm not surprised at all, but it's really disappointing to see the favorable treatment being given to Kespa players. 24 spots for Kespa, 6 for the rest of Korea? That's just a guarantee that no matter what the actual balance of skill is, 80% of the Koreans will be Kespa. There is absolutely no fairness-based justification for that. It's just Kespa throwing its weight around and MLG deciding to do whatever gets it the most viewers/money. That's how you run a reality TV show, not a legitimate sport.

I really think the community needs to start seeing starcraft as more of a sport. There's room for debate about some format details (separating qualifiers by region, for example), but no tournament that gives players advantages in the competition because of their fame or money or what company they work for should be seen as a "major" by the community.

Why are we really upset when Kespa boycotts GSL, but not upset at all when they push the other Koreans out of MLG? Are we really dumb enough that only pushing them 80% of the way out fools us?


You do know MLG is partnered with Kespa, right? And that the event is called MLG vs Proleague. You also do realize this is a special event before the Fall Championship, which will once again be open to anyone who would like to play in it. MLG isn't pushing out non-Kespa players at all. They are putting this event on in an attempt to give people what they want to see, Kespa players in a legitimate tournament that involves non-Kespa players. They are pushing NA players with more spots most likely because it's an NA-based company, and it gives the NA players a chance to step up and legitimize themselves.



There are 8 Koreans in Dallas group play already from Raleigh results, there will be more non Kespa Koreans added into group play from the KR only online qualifier, and even more non Kespa Koreans added into group play from the MvP program.

So in fact, there are more Esports Federation players in group play with fullly paid trips than any other group/region of players.
Twitter: MrAdamAp
trada
Profile Joined August 2012
Germany347 Posts
September 13 2012 19:54 GMT
#247
12 players from NA and 6 players from EU. doesnt seem very balanced to me but maybe this is because of logistics?

I'd rather see 18 players mixed from NA/EU. it seems they picked 12 and 6 just to make the math come out...
~
aristarchus
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States652 Posts
September 13 2012 19:57 GMT
#248
On September 14 2012 04:48 MLG_Adam wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 14 2012 04:41 Morieris wrote:
On September 14 2012 04:35 aristarchus wrote:
So I'm not surprised at all, but it's really disappointing to see the favorable treatment being given to Kespa players. 24 spots for Kespa, 6 for the rest of Korea? That's just a guarantee that no matter what the actual balance of skill is, 80% of the Koreans will be Kespa. There is absolutely no fairness-based justification for that. It's just Kespa throwing its weight around and MLG deciding to do whatever gets it the most viewers/money. That's how you run a reality TV show, not a legitimate sport.

I really think the community needs to start seeing starcraft as more of a sport. There's room for debate about some format details (separating qualifiers by region, for example), but no tournament that gives players advantages in the competition because of their fame or money or what company they work for should be seen as a "major" by the community.

Why are we really upset when Kespa boycotts GSL, but not upset at all when they push the other Koreans out of MLG? Are we really dumb enough that only pushing them 80% of the way out fools us?


You do know MLG is partnered with Kespa, right? And that the event is called MLG vs Proleague. You also do realize this is a special event before the Fall Championship, which will once again be open to anyone who would like to play in it. MLG isn't pushing out non-Kespa players at all. They are putting this event on in an attempt to give people what they want to see, Kespa players in a legitimate tournament that involves non-Kespa players. They are pushing NA players with more spots most likely because it's an NA-based company, and it gives the NA players a chance to step up and legitimize themselves.



There are 8 Koreans in Dallas group play already from Raleigh results, there will be more non Kespa Koreans added into group play from the KR only online qualifier, and even more non Kespa Koreans added into group play from the MvP program.

So in fact, there are more Esports Federation players in group play with fullly paid trips than any other group/region of players.


Sure, but those are based on the old results before the new system. If this continues, that percentage would obviously shift substantially over time. It's unfair to give one group of players an advantage in a competition. I don't care if there are three times as many ESF as Kespa players - if that happened in a system that was biased towards Kespa players, it means that the ESF player group as a whole deserves even more spots than that.

No one is going to take MLG seriously as a sports-like competition if you don't take yourselves seriously first. Imagine if MLB gave the Yankees a 10 game handicap during the regular season because the owner of the Yankees refused to play under any other conditions. That's the same thing that's happening here, and the fact that the reaction against it isn't stronger is very good evidence that esports isn't a true sport yet.
InsidiA
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
Canada1169 Posts
September 13 2012 19:59 GMT
#249
12 players from NA? :| i love NA players but that seems a lot
GraphicsInsidiA | StarCraft 2 Manager for Team eLevate | Graphic Designer for Red Bull eSports & HTC | @iamjasonpun
ragz_gt
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
9172 Posts
September 13 2012 20:00 GMT
#250
On September 14 2012 04:57 aristarchus wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 14 2012 04:48 MLG_Adam wrote:
On September 14 2012 04:41 Morieris wrote:
On September 14 2012 04:35 aristarchus wrote:
So I'm not surprised at all, but it's really disappointing to see the favorable treatment being given to Kespa players. 24 spots for Kespa, 6 for the rest of Korea? That's just a guarantee that no matter what the actual balance of skill is, 80% of the Koreans will be Kespa. There is absolutely no fairness-based justification for that. It's just Kespa throwing its weight around and MLG deciding to do whatever gets it the most viewers/money. That's how you run a reality TV show, not a legitimate sport.

I really think the community needs to start seeing starcraft as more of a sport. There's room for debate about some format details (separating qualifiers by region, for example), but no tournament that gives players advantages in the competition because of their fame or money or what company they work for should be seen as a "major" by the community.

Why are we really upset when Kespa boycotts GSL, but not upset at all when they push the other Koreans out of MLG? Are we really dumb enough that only pushing them 80% of the way out fools us?


You do know MLG is partnered with Kespa, right? And that the event is called MLG vs Proleague. You also do realize this is a special event before the Fall Championship, which will once again be open to anyone who would like to play in it. MLG isn't pushing out non-Kespa players at all. They are putting this event on in an attempt to give people what they want to see, Kespa players in a legitimate tournament that involves non-Kespa players. They are pushing NA players with more spots most likely because it's an NA-based company, and it gives the NA players a chance to step up and legitimize themselves.



There are 8 Koreans in Dallas group play already from Raleigh results, there will be more non Kespa Koreans added into group play from the KR only online qualifier, and even more non Kespa Koreans added into group play from the MvP program.

So in fact, there are more Esports Federation players in group play with fullly paid trips than any other group/region of players.


Sure, but those are based on the old results before the new system. If this continues, that percentage would obviously shift substantially over time. It's unfair to give one group of players an advantage in a competition. I don't care if there are three times as many ESF as Kespa players - if that happened in a system that was biased towards Kespa players, it means that the ESF player group as a whole deserves even more spots than that.

No one is going to take MLG seriously as a sports-like competition if you don't take yourselves seriously first. Imagine if MLB gave the Yankees a 10 game handicap during the regular season because the owner of the Yankees refused to play under any other conditions. That's the same thing that's happening here, and the fact that the reaction against it isn't stronger is very good evidence that esports isn't a true sport yet.


They have a partnership, so of course they give more to their partner (like you give more to your wife).
I'm not an otaku, I'm a specialist.
Megiddosc
Profile Joined April 2011
United States966 Posts
September 13 2012 20:00 GMT
#251
On September 14 2012 04:57 aristarchus wrote:
No one is going to take MLG seriously as a sports-like competition if you don't take yourselves seriously first. Imagine if MLB gave the Yankees a 10 game handicap during the regular season because the owner of the Yankees refused to play under any other conditions. That's the same thing that's happening here, and the fact that the reaction against it isn't stronger is very good evidence that esports isn't a true sport yet.

And I assume that nobody takes the GSL seriously as a sports-like competition either since they offer seeds for foreigners? 10 out of 21 slots at the Code A qualifiers were taken by KeSPA players. There are obviously some of them that can already play at an extremely high level.
MLG_Adam
Profile Joined July 2010
United States994 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-13 20:05:29
September 13 2012 20:04 GMT
#252
On September 14 2012 05:00 Megiddosc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 14 2012 04:57 aristarchus wrote:
No one is going to take MLG seriously as a sports-like competition if you don't take yourselves seriously first. Imagine if MLB gave the Yankees a 10 game handicap during the regular season because the owner of the Yankees refused to play under any other conditions. That's the same thing that's happening here, and the fact that the reaction against it isn't stronger is very good evidence that esports isn't a true sport yet.

And I assume that nobody takes the GSL seriously as a sports-like competition either since they offer seeds for foreigners? 10 out of 21 slots at the Code A qualifiers were taken by KeSPA players. There are obviously some of them that can already play at an extremely high level.


Exactly. They also seed subjectively. Everyone does it differently and there are merits and pitfalls with any direction you head in. I am very comfortable with exactly what we have set out to do and think it is very fair. Thanks for the feedback.
Twitter: MrAdamAp
Martyrc
Profile Joined May 2012
217 Posts
September 13 2012 20:05 GMT
#253
Kespa players gonna take over in the next 6 months tops if they continue at this rate.
¨First in, last out.¨
cLAN.Anax
Profile Blog Joined July 2012
United States2847 Posts
September 13 2012 20:06 GMT
#254
I bet the elephants are gonna win THIS election.... ;-P

So many big KeSPA names. Can't wait.
┬─┬___(ツ)_/¯ 彡┻━┻ I am the 4%. "I cant believe i saw ANAL backwards before i saw the word LAN." - Capped
Nimic
Profile Joined September 2010
Norway1360 Posts
September 13 2012 20:06 GMT
#255
After some consideration, I'm somewhat more positive about this event. It is the first one in (hopefully) a long line of events, after all, it wasn't going to be perfect the first time around.

Still, the lack of Suppy is weird. He could still be in, but he should have been invited right away.
aristarchus
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States652 Posts
September 13 2012 20:07 GMT
#256
On September 14 2012 05:00 Megiddosc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 14 2012 04:57 aristarchus wrote:
No one is going to take MLG seriously as a sports-like competition if you don't take yourselves seriously first. Imagine if MLB gave the Yankees a 10 game handicap during the regular season because the owner of the Yankees refused to play under any other conditions. That's the same thing that's happening here, and the fact that the reaction against it isn't stronger is very good evidence that esports isn't a true sport yet.

And I assume that nobody takes the GSL seriously as a sports-like competition either since they offer seeds for foreigners? 10 out of 21 slots at the Code A qualifiers were taken by KeSPA players. There are obviously some of them that can already play at an extremely high level.

You haven't noticed the constant complaints about the seeds? And they at least changed them so that Koreans could get them too, and they're based on results at foreign tournaments. It's still not ideal, in that they don't set out clear criteria beforehand, but it's at least based on playing success.

I'm not saying Kespa players shouldn't be in the league. I'm sure if you just held general Korean qualifiers, lots of Kespa players would qualify. But it clearly wouldn't be 80% Kespa yet. And even if it would be, it doesn't matter. Who gets to be in the tournament should be a result of a competition based on the skill of the players in starcraft, not the skill of their employers in business negotiations.
KalWarkov
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
Germany4126 Posts
September 13 2012 20:07 GMT
#257
12 NA but only 6 EU and 6 KR/TW ??

well...
still very excited about this, although i wouldve prefered a "normal" MLG including Kespa players.
DiaBoLuS ** Sc2 - Protoss: 16x GM | Dota2 - Offlane Immortal | Wc3 - Undead decent level | Diablo nerd | Chess / Magnus fanboy | BVB | Agnostic***
Condor Hero
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States2931 Posts
September 13 2012 20:10 GMT
#258
On September 14 2012 05:07 aristarchus wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 14 2012 05:00 Megiddosc wrote:
On September 14 2012 04:57 aristarchus wrote:
No one is going to take MLG seriously as a sports-like competition if you don't take yourselves seriously first. Imagine if MLB gave the Yankees a 10 game handicap during the regular season because the owner of the Yankees refused to play under any other conditions. That's the same thing that's happening here, and the fact that the reaction against it isn't stronger is very good evidence that esports isn't a true sport yet.

And I assume that nobody takes the GSL seriously as a sports-like competition either since they offer seeds for foreigners? 10 out of 21 slots at the Code A qualifiers were taken by KeSPA players. There are obviously some of them that can already play at an extremely high level.

You haven't noticed the constant complaints about the seeds? And they at least changed them so that Koreans could get them too, and they're based on results at foreign tournaments. It's still not ideal, in that they don't set out clear criteria beforehand, but it's at least based on playing success.

I'm not saying Kespa players shouldn't be in the league. I'm sure if you just held general Korean qualifiers, lots of Kespa players would qualify. But it clearly wouldn't be 80% Kespa yet. And even if it would be, it doesn't matter. Who gets to be in the tournament should be a result of a competition based on the skill of the players in starcraft, not the skill of their employers in business negotiations.

This is a one off thing they're trying out, called MLG vs PROLEAGUE.
You complaining about a ton of Kespa players would be like me complaining there's a shitload of Europeans at a Dreamhack.

Doesn't really affect their main events besides 4 guaranteed Kespa seeds (down from the 8 I think everyone was expecting from Raleigh).
mcmartini
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Australia1972 Posts
September 13 2012 20:10 GMT
#259
Excellent just what I need. More awesome tournaments.
I just want to say I have 370 APM - Liquid'Tyler SotG 14-12-2011 "I mean it's too bad you can't be paid to be, you know, a chicken shit fucking whiny bitch on the internet or we would have lots of rich community members" Nick "Tasteless" Plott
sylverfyre
Profile Joined May 2010
United States8298 Posts
September 13 2012 20:11 GMT
#260
Whoa wow, 24 players coming over? That's awesome.
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