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On September 13 2012 08:57 rasnj wrote:
Can people managing shit like this please be a little more professional. How hard can it be to run a pro house?
Some hints:
- You don't let someone live with you for 40 days without a written agreement, especially not if you want to take royalties, have secrecy, and force people to stream a certain amount of time.
- You let people have their lawyer look over contracts.
- There nothing wrong with streaming revenue royalties or minimum streaming requirements, or even non-compete clauses if you do something secret, but you let people know about this BEFOREHAND, not when they arrive with money, and certainly not several weeks into the deal.
- 10 year non-compete clause for a training house is ridiculous and cannot possibly have any legal merit. How secret are those chore and practice schedules anyway?
Furthermore when it comes to responding to allegations and doing damage control:
- If you promise a statement in 2 hours provide it in 2 hours, not 4 hours. If you don't know how fast you can provide, then overestimate, say within a day, or better yet stay silent till you have something to say.
- A press release should be professional, and contain pertinent information. The only fact in yours was "Someone left." It didn't even specify whether it was Fuzer.
- You don't go crying and insulting the opposing party on message boards like a 13 year old. You stay to official channels, which pretty much means media and your press release. And when you release a chat log, release the whole thing, otherwise people are bound to wonder, even if nothing was hidden.
This shit is ridiculous if people can't behave a least semi-professionally at least give us some good drama, not this old inept manager we have seen countless times (gus, blight, eclypsia, and now). We need rekrul to get back into this scene and show how to do a proper expose.
A thousand times yes. Plus, don't make a pro-gamer house's secrecy levels sound like a CIA facility. It's a bunch of nerds in one place. Big fucking secrets to keep.
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On September 13 2012 09:02 tribulator wrote:
Wait... whats wrong with the MoW guy saying essentially "I can send you back the money and we can go our separate ways, or you can go public and it becomes a fight", as do most things involving monetary transactions for a business relationship?
And theres no issue among you people with Fuzer saying "I like war"?
Holy shit... what the fuck is wrong with you people?
MoW guy also essentially saying "STFU or never see your money again". It's all same meaning, just different wording.
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On September 13 2012 08:57 r.Evo wrote:How on earth can you show this as if it was "uncensored" or "within context"? The damn conversation starts with someone telling you that you just accused them of theft. Should show that part, too. Judging from your other responses I doubt it was as nicely put as the others party first statement.
The accusation of theft was on FACEBOOk not SKYPE so its plausible that this is the start!!!!!!!
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Is this over yet? If you kicked him out early, give him his money back and be done with it. If they give you your money back, quit complaining. Simple as that.
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On September 13 2012 09:01 SaJeR. wrote:
600€ a month for a room is SICK, wtf people? You can have your own house for 600€ rent in almost..., every country? That's what I paid for a 2-dorm/2-baths/kitchen/living room in Spain.
600x5=3000€, assuming that there are no more people living in there. It´s a STEAL. In KOR you can live in a training house for... 200000KWR a month? Didn´t remember what I paid, but surely it was closer to 200$ than to 300$. 4-5 meals a day, coach, and a lot of skilled people.
Also... cleaning your room and the "training area"? For god shake, paying 600€ a month and you don´t have a housecleaner? C'mon, it´s 10€/hr. Also... 5 hours a day streaming and do you want revenues? WTF? MORE MONEY?
Seriously, Ministry of WIN is the best name for them, dunno how some players pay them to go.
As some others I didn't like Fuzer when I used to play, but he´s speaking truth here. For 600€ a month / 1 room I'd expect at least some mermaids giving me air while playing.
Well they have computers and food there and internet, but yeah even if you'd go during EURO2012 you couldnt find such prices lol
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United States997 Posts
On September 13 2012 09:03 LgNkarmy wrote:
As for them owing Fuzer money, It does state that we are to pay for the entire month even if we leave half way through.
That settles it for me then.
He should've signed the contract before going, mistake on MoW's part.
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On September 13 2012 09:03 r.Evo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2012 09:01 ragz_gt wrote:On September 13 2012 08:59 r.Evo wrote:On September 13 2012 08:58 enCore- wrote:On September 13 2012 08:51 r.Evo wrote:On September 13 2012 08:40 Sapphire.lux wrote:On September 13 2012 08:28 ilbh wrote:
the thing is that they didn't want to give him his money back, they only offered him back when he said he would make it public. This is the main point of it all i think. If the manager wasn't a dick and gave the money back when the player left the house, this would have been a non isue. Contracts and recips are there for a reason, they protect people from scumbags without moral values. Fuzer was naive. Let's say I rent out rooms to people I meet online and out of the ten places I have available the demand is high enough that it's always full. Furthermore, it takes some time to set it up with new people and that's why I ask all of my customers to tell me a month in advance if they want to leave. Now a guy comes along who gives me a two month payment in advance, after a month and 5 days he tells me he won't sign my contract and would rather leave instead. My room will be most likely empty for the entire month because of set-up times and now that it's suddenly about his money he starts to care and threatens legal action because of something he already got but refused to sign a contract about? I'd probably make sure that I'm not telling this in written but "Oh, whoops, damn, I'd love to pay you your money back but sadly I can't find our signed contract - can you?" sounds like a likely and reasonable answer he'd get after causing a mess for all the time. Are both sides unprofessional and/or naive? Yeah, sure. Can I think of any similar situation where the guy would actually get his money back? (Think renting a place, a hotel room, a subscription) - Nope. And for good reasons. Incorrect. He was never given the choice to stay at the house, so it was not his wish to leave. I mean what kind of business refuses to give you a copy of the contract and won't even send it to your lawyer unless he sends you credentials first? It's ridiculous. If I tell you to "sign my fucking contract or leave my fucking house" you still have a choice. It's not nicely put but it's just the same. That's not forcing you to leave, that's insisting on you finally signing a contract that should have been signed a month ago. They didn't show him the contract a month ago though. He even said We spoke a few weeks ago and it was my first attempt when I tried to sign a contract with him. And then there is revision, and lawyer business. So I doubt they gave him sufficient time to react before the "take it or leave it" deal. Then it kind of goes back to "Why would you go to a random place in a foreign country without any legal agreement?" T_T
Well, he might be naive and too trusting, and MoW might have legal ground. Which does not make them less of an arsehole and certainly not helping their future business though.
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On September 13 2012 08:59 r.Evo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2012 08:58 enCore- wrote:On September 13 2012 08:51 r.Evo wrote:On September 13 2012 08:40 Sapphire.lux wrote:On September 13 2012 08:28 ilbh wrote:
the thing is that they didn't want to give him his money back, they only offered him back when he said he would make it public. This is the main point of it all i think. If the manager wasn't a dick and gave the money back when the player left the house, this would have been a non isue. Contracts and recips are there for a reason, they protect people from scumbags without moral values. Fuzer was naive. Let's say I rent out rooms to people I meet online and out of the ten places I have available the demand is high enough that it's always full. Furthermore, it takes some time to set it up with new people and that's why I ask all of my customers to tell me a month in advance if they want to leave. Now a guy comes along who gives me a two month payment in advance, after a month and 5 days he tells me he won't sign my contract and would rather leave instead. My room will be most likely empty for the entire month because of set-up times and now that it's suddenly about his money he starts to care and threatens legal action because of something he already got but refused to sign a contract about? I'd probably make sure that I'm not telling this in written but "Oh, whoops, damn, I'd love to pay you your money back but sadly I can't find our signed contract - can you?" sounds like a likely and reasonable answer he'd get after causing a mess for all the time. Are both sides unprofessional and/or naive? Yeah, sure. Can I think of any similar situation where the guy would actually get his money back? (Think renting a place, a hotel room, a subscription) - Nope. And for good reasons. Incorrect. He was never given the choice to stay at the house, so it was not his wish to leave. I mean what kind of business refuses to give you a copy of the contract and won't even send it to your lawyer unless he sends you credentials first? It's ridiculous. If I tell you to "sign my fucking contract or leave my fucking house" you still have a choice. It's not nicely put but it's just the same. That's not forcing you to leave, that's insisting on you finally signing a contract that should have been signed a month ago.
No, they have FORCED him to leave as they were unwilling to clear up his issues with the contract and then demands that he signs it. It's not a choice for any person in their right mind.
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On September 13 2012 09:03 LgNkarmy wrote:
Okay guys I want to clear a few things. As some of you know I also lived in Ministry of Win. I was one of the first players to move into the house, roughly a week after they opened their doors to the public. I want to just add my opinion and my experience. While living in the MoW house there were obvious errors due to inexperience, It happens. The house is still new, the whole concept of the house is new, They're doing everything on their own. They don't have another pro house to get tips from, They have to trial and error everything themselves. Mistakes are going to happen.
With that said, The contract was a bit confusing at first but they gave everyone in the house a full day to sit down together and point out what we didn't like and what we wanted to change. They were very receptive to our changes. Everything we weren't comfortable with they changed, and if we didn't understand something they clarified it. I had no problems with the contract after we all re-worked it. Players saying the NDA are keeping them from not saying anything isn't true. The NDA never said anything about not talking badly about MoW or talking about what happened within the house. They just want to make sure that we don't tell out company secrets to competitors since they were the first of this type of gaming house, It was just to cover themselves. It was all understood, It was to keep company secrets since everyone living in the house had exposure to how the entire house ran.
The food was an issue, At the time I was living there I thought we were eating quiet healthy, but at the same time it was only 9 people total to cook for. You have to realise that cooking for 12+ players and staff, It's hard to prepare fish and salads for every meal, and it's nearly impossible to have "perfect amount" of food. If they cook to much then they lose money from throwing it out, If they don't cook enough players complain. It's a really rough balance. Even when the meals weren't that big, We had access to pieces of bread with various spreads, bowls of cereal at any time of the day, and other left overs if there are any. Once again the project and house is still new so give them time to work out the kinks.
As for them owing Fuzer money, It does state that we are to pay for the entire month even if we leave half way through. They have to plan and buy/prepare for an entire month so to get a refund after they already spent the money planning on you living in the house, isn't really fair to ask for. It sucks Fuzer couldn't get a refund, especially since he didn't sign the contract yet, but at the same time MoW is a business and they have to plan around having the proper income to sustain the house. This was poorly handled all over, Mistakes were clearly made. Once again the project is new, I doubt they'll ever allow a player to move in before signing a contract.
Overall my time in MoW was fantastic. We had a very well set schedule as far as eating/practising. We would eat the same time every day, and practice the same time every day. Matiz was a amazing coach, He was very helpful to help find us new builds and then finding us players to practice it with. The practice was regulated, It was up to the players to make sure it was efficient. He was there for assistance, He asked on a daily basis if anyone wanted help, And he would go out of his way to make sure we were taken care of. Same with the work out schedule, Me snute and Cyto were the only players who used the gym while we lived there, We didn't need a work out schedule. If you want to work out do it, If not practice. They can't hold your hand for everything. Even in a korean team house, The coach does what he can to guide you and make sure you're on track with practice, but if you're not playing efficiently then it's your own fault.
So please lower your pitch forks. Once again the project is still new, Mistakes will be made and mistakes have been made. Was my entire experience perfect? No I had a few times of drama, but it was cleared up. Just try to see it from both sides, and remember this is still a business.
Thanks
~~LgNkarmy
Thanks a lot for that post. Would be cool if someone could collect the various "important" statements in this thread and compile them into a nice package that can be linked in the OP.
Especially this part:
As for them owing Fuzer money, It does state that we are to pay for the entire month even if we leave half way through.
Shows the entire OP and the shit storm it caused in a different light. That type of condition is quite normal for anything similar I can think of (which makes asking for your money back so ridiculous in this case).
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On September 13 2012 09:01 r.Evo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2012 08:59 Fuzer wrote:On September 13 2012 08:57 r.Evo wrote:How on earth can you show this as if it was "uncensored" or "within context"? The damn conversation starts with someone telling you that you just accused them of theft. Should show that part, too. Judging from your other responses I doubt it was as nicely put as the others party first statement. He posted first picture about it http://i.imgur.com/PFNQU.png , where was no censoring so i thought that he doesnt mind. And that happened after I told this to go public. Yeah. And you try to provide another screenshot to "put it in context" which starts with him talking about you just accusing him of theft. Those bits and pieces in general are imho not things that should be shown around in public, but you could at least have the decency to provide the entire context, including your comments.
Dont you understand that it was on the facebook page of Fuzer. Then this mow guy comes and offers the money or war.
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On September 13 2012 09:03 Noispaxen wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2012 09:01 Leijona wrote:On September 13 2012 08:55 Irave wrote:On September 13 2012 08:46 CeriseCherries wrote:On September 13 2012 08:42 nakedsurfer wrote:On September 13 2012 08:24 Welmu wrote:On September 13 2012 08:23 MinistryOfWin wrote:
We didn't wanted to start the flame war but to complete this in civilized manner. Fuzer was reprimanded more than 10 times, about cleaning his room, keeping the gaming room clean, nothing helped. We have decided that we will sign the contract as soon as possible so we can enforce the house rules on him, but he declined. He declined second time.
Streaming time - quote from the contract: 150 hours per month, unless having a series of training events or trips to StarCraft II tournaments. We are all humans, we are not forcing the players to stream 4 hours a day.
Streaming ad-revenue: Thanks to strategic partnership with Twitch, players living in the house still can earn more money from ad-revenue than they normally could, Fuzer didn't even had any partnership before that. 150 hours per month is 5 hours a day.... Welmu dropping them facts like a boss!! ♥ so they are right that it isn't 4 hours a day  idk i just feel like it takes two to make a mess I applaud Welmu's ability to do math. Though if the agreement was for 5 hours a day minimum it would say that. However you have the obligation to stream for 150 hours a month. I don't imagine its much of a stretch to think of the players playing the game for 8 hours a day. So if you turn the stream on during that time, you finish with over 11 days in the month, to do whatever. They partnered with twitch, so even previously non featured streamers would become featured. Which would enable them to profit off of commercials, while giving a % to MoW. Lol, just stop with the ridiculous 8hours a day streaming thing. Thats funny Did you even read what he wrote?
Do you know how annoying it must be to stream for 8 hours straight? I mean, we're not just talking about taking a short break. You're not making any revenue when you take a break from streaming, so streaming 8 hours straight is basically just taking short breaks to eat maybe a small bag of pretzels or something, going to the bathroom, getting a glass of water.
5 hours a day is a bit unreasonable for streaming, especially when you consider the fact that most people don't want to stream every single day. Even if you only take 2 days off, you're still going to have to make up 10 hours over 5 days (7 hours a day!). TLO, the #1 streamer in terms of hours, only had 142.5 hours. It's a ridiculous thing for MoW to want their players to do, and if they're charging that much for them to go there in the first place, they should have just included that amount (or some of it) in the contract instead of forcing them to stream that much.
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On September 13 2012 09:06 r.Evo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2012 09:03 LgNkarmy wrote:
Okay guys I want to clear a few things. As some of you know I also lived in Ministry of Win. I was one of the first players to move into the house, roughly a week after they opened their doors to the public. I want to just add my opinion and my experience. While living in the MoW house there were obvious errors due to inexperience, It happens. The house is still new, the whole concept of the house is new, They're doing everything on their own. They don't have another pro house to get tips from, They have to trial and error everything themselves. Mistakes are going to happen.
With that said, The contract was a bit confusing at first but they gave everyone in the house a full day to sit down together and point out what we didn't like and what we wanted to change. They were very receptive to our changes. Everything we weren't comfortable with they changed, and if we didn't understand something they clarified it. I had no problems with the contract after we all re-worked it. Players saying the NDA are keeping them from not saying anything isn't true. The NDA never said anything about not talking badly about MoW or talking about what happened within the house. They just want to make sure that we don't tell out company secrets to competitors since they were the first of this type of gaming house, It was just to cover themselves. It was all understood, It was to keep company secrets since everyone living in the house had exposure to how the entire house ran.
The food was an issue, At the time I was living there I thought we were eating quiet healthy, but at the same time it was only 9 people total to cook for. You have to realise that cooking for 12+ players and staff, It's hard to prepare fish and salads for every meal, and it's nearly impossible to have "perfect amount" of food. If they cook to much then they lose money from throwing it out, If they don't cook enough players complain. It's a really rough balance. Even when the meals weren't that big, We had access to pieces of bread with various spreads, bowls of cereal at any time of the day, and other left overs if there are any. Once again the project and house is still new so give them time to work out the kinks.
As for them owing Fuzer money, It does state that we are to pay for the entire month even if we leave half way through. They have to plan and buy/prepare for an entire month so to get a refund after they already spent the money planning on you living in the house, isn't really fair to ask for. It sucks Fuzer couldn't get a refund, especially since he didn't sign the contract yet, but at the same time MoW is a business and they have to plan around having the proper income to sustain the house. This was poorly handled all over, Mistakes were clearly made. Once again the project is new, I doubt they'll ever allow a player to move in before signing a contract.
Overall my time in MoW was fantastic. We had a very well set schedule as far as eating/practising. We would eat the same time every day, and practice the same time every day. Matiz was a amazing coach, He was very helpful to help find us new builds and then finding us players to practice it with. The practice was regulated, It was up to the players to make sure it was efficient. He was there for assistance, He asked on a daily basis if anyone wanted help, And he would go out of his way to make sure we were taken care of. Same with the work out schedule, Me snute and Cyto were the only players who used the gym while we lived there, We didn't need a work out schedule. If you want to work out do it, If not practice. They can't hold your hand for everything. Even in a korean team house, The coach does what he can to guide you and make sure you're on track with practice, but if you're not playing efficiently then it's your own fault.
So please lower your pitch forks. Once again the project is still new, Mistakes will be made and mistakes have been made. Was my entire experience perfect? No I had a few times of drama, but it was cleared up. Just try to see it from both sides, and remember this is still a business.
Thanks
~~LgNkarmy Thanks a lot for that post. Would be cool if someone could collect the various "important" statements in this thread and compile them into a nice package that can be linked in the OP. Especially this part: Show nested quote +As for them owing Fuzer money, It does state that we are to pay for the entire month even if we leave half way through. Shows the entire OP and the shit storm it caused in a different light. That type of condition is quite normal for anything similar I can think of (which makes asking for your money back so ridiculous in this case).
Lol you must be from Ministry of Fail, because everything you post is to defend them. Boss secret smurf account? And really it doesn´t matter what karmy said, facts are facts.
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On September 13 2012 09:07 MtlGuitarist97 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2012 09:03 Noispaxen wrote:On September 13 2012 09:01 Leijona wrote:On September 13 2012 08:55 Irave wrote:On September 13 2012 08:46 CeriseCherries wrote:On September 13 2012 08:42 nakedsurfer wrote:On September 13 2012 08:24 Welmu wrote:On September 13 2012 08:23 MinistryOfWin wrote:
We didn't wanted to start the flame war but to complete this in civilized manner. Fuzer was reprimanded more than 10 times, about cleaning his room, keeping the gaming room clean, nothing helped. We have decided that we will sign the contract as soon as possible so we can enforce the house rules on him, but he declined. He declined second time.
Streaming time - quote from the contract: 150 hours per month, unless having a series of training events or trips to StarCraft II tournaments. We are all humans, we are not forcing the players to stream 4 hours a day.
Streaming ad-revenue: Thanks to strategic partnership with Twitch, players living in the house still can earn more money from ad-revenue than they normally could, Fuzer didn't even had any partnership before that. 150 hours per month is 5 hours a day.... Welmu dropping them facts like a boss!! ♥ so they are right that it isn't 4 hours a day idk i just feel like it takes two to make a mess I applaud Welmu's ability to do math. Though if the agreement was for 5 hours a day minimum it would say that. However you have the obligation to stream for 150 hours a month. I don't imagine its much of a stretch to think of the players playing the game for 8 hours a day. So if you turn the stream on during that time, you finish with over 11 days in the month, to do whatever. They partnered with twitch, so even previously non featured streamers would become featured. Which would enable them to profit off of commercials, while giving a % to MoW. Lol, just stop with the ridiculous 8hours a day streaming thing. Thats funny Did you even read what he wrote? Do you know how annoying it must be to stream for 8 hours straight? I mean, we're not just talking about taking a short break. You're not making any revenue when you take a break from streaming, so streaming 8 hours straight is basically just taking short breaks to eat maybe a small bag of pretzels or something, going to the bathroom, getting a glass of water. 5 hours a day is a bit unreasonable for streaming, especially when you consider the fact that most people don't want to stream every single day. Even if you only take 2 days off, you're still going to have to make up 10 hours over 5 days (7 hours a day!). TLO, the #1 streamer in terms of hours, only had 142.5 hours. It's a ridiculous thing for MoW to want their players to do, and if they're charging that much for them to go there in the first place, they should have just included that amount (or some of it) in the contract instead of forcing them to stream that much.
We never streamed for 8 hours a day. It was a set amount per month. So you could not stream monday and stream all day saturday/sunday and be fine, You can break it up throughout the week. It wasn't set per day.
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On September 13 2012 09:06 r.Evo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2012 09:03 LgNkarmy wrote:
Okay guys I want to clear a few things. As some of you know I also lived in Ministry of Win. I was one of the first players to move into the house, roughly a week after they opened their doors to the public. I want to just add my opinion and my experience. While living in the MoW house there were obvious errors due to inexperience, It happens. The house is still new, the whole concept of the house is new, They're doing everything on their own. They don't have another pro house to get tips from, They have to trial and error everything themselves. Mistakes are going to happen.
With that said, The contract was a bit confusing at first but they gave everyone in the house a full day to sit down together and point out what we didn't like and what we wanted to change. They were very receptive to our changes. Everything we weren't comfortable with they changed, and if we didn't understand something they clarified it. I had no problems with the contract after we all re-worked it. Players saying the NDA are keeping them from not saying anything isn't true. The NDA never said anything about not talking badly about MoW or talking about what happened within the house. They just want to make sure that we don't tell out company secrets to competitors since they were the first of this type of gaming house, It was just to cover themselves. It was all understood, It was to keep company secrets since everyone living in the house had exposure to how the entire house ran.
The food was an issue, At the time I was living there I thought we were eating quiet healthy, but at the same time it was only 9 people total to cook for. You have to realise that cooking for 12+ players and staff, It's hard to prepare fish and salads for every meal, and it's nearly impossible to have "perfect amount" of food. If they cook to much then they lose money from throwing it out, If they don't cook enough players complain. It's a really rough balance. Even when the meals weren't that big, We had access to pieces of bread with various spreads, bowls of cereal at any time of the day, and other left overs if there are any. Once again the project and house is still new so give them time to work out the kinks.
As for them owing Fuzer money, It does state that we are to pay for the entire month even if we leave half way through. They have to plan and buy/prepare for an entire month so to get a refund after they already spent the money planning on you living in the house, isn't really fair to ask for. It sucks Fuzer couldn't get a refund, especially since he didn't sign the contract yet, but at the same time MoW is a business and they have to plan around having the proper income to sustain the house. This was poorly handled all over, Mistakes were clearly made. Once again the project is new, I doubt they'll ever allow a player to move in before signing a contract.
Overall my time in MoW was fantastic. We had a very well set schedule as far as eating/practising. We would eat the same time every day, and practice the same time every day. Matiz was a amazing coach, He was very helpful to help find us new builds and then finding us players to practice it with. The practice was regulated, It was up to the players to make sure it was efficient. He was there for assistance, He asked on a daily basis if anyone wanted help, And he would go out of his way to make sure we were taken care of. Same with the work out schedule, Me snute and Cyto were the only players who used the gym while we lived there, We didn't need a work out schedule. If you want to work out do it, If not practice. They can't hold your hand for everything. Even in a korean team house, The coach does what he can to guide you and make sure you're on track with practice, but if you're not playing efficiently then it's your own fault.
So please lower your pitch forks. Once again the project is still new, Mistakes will be made and mistakes have been made. Was my entire experience perfect? No I had a few times of drama, but it was cleared up. Just try to see it from both sides, and remember this is still a business.
Thanks
~~LgNkarmy Thanks a lot for that post. Would be cool if someone could collect the various "important" statements in this thread and compile them into a nice package that can be linked in the OP. Especially this part: Show nested quote +As for them owing Fuzer money, It does state that we are to pay for the entire month even if we leave half way through. Shows the entire OP and the shit storm it caused in a different light. That type of condition is quite normal for anything similar I can think of (which makes asking for your money back so ridiculous in this case).
but he didn't sign the contract so that "rule" is worth nothing, MoW should have made him sign before he entered, they fucked up
you bias for MoW is transparent as fuck btw
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I wouldn't feel safe at all joining this house anymore. Something is just not right here i can feel it. Someone is telling lies here.
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Come to MoW. Become marginally better at a computer game while overpaying for rent, with no services, and no food.
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MinistryOfWin's response looks fine to me. Fuzer just wanted to start flame war (as he has already said himself) and he has achieved this goal.
The only thing which I found really bad is that he had been disturbed at night, although it was solved as he required it.
All others aren't that bad in my point of view.
I would like to notice one thing about Fuzer: he actually didn't want to "tell the truth", but he wanted to defame MoW. I mean, he said in his statement that they didn't want to give him his money back, but now it's clear that it's not true, he had refused these money preferring to start flame wars. At least it's one thing he lied. Who knows if everything else is true or not?
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On September 13 2012 09:08 LgNkarmy wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2012 09:07 MtlGuitarist97 wrote:On September 13 2012 09:03 Noispaxen wrote:On September 13 2012 09:01 Leijona wrote:On September 13 2012 08:55 Irave wrote:On September 13 2012 08:46 CeriseCherries wrote:On September 13 2012 08:42 nakedsurfer wrote:On September 13 2012 08:24 Welmu wrote:On September 13 2012 08:23 MinistryOfWin wrote:
We didn't wanted to start the flame war but to complete this in civilized manner. Fuzer was reprimanded more than 10 times, about cleaning his room, keeping the gaming room clean, nothing helped. We have decided that we will sign the contract as soon as possible so we can enforce the house rules on him, but he declined. He declined second time.
Streaming time - quote from the contract: 150 hours per month, unless having a series of training events or trips to StarCraft II tournaments. We are all humans, we are not forcing the players to stream 4 hours a day.
Streaming ad-revenue: Thanks to strategic partnership with Twitch, players living in the house still can earn more money from ad-revenue than they normally could, Fuzer didn't even had any partnership before that. 150 hours per month is 5 hours a day.... Welmu dropping them facts like a boss!! ♥ so they are right that it isn't 4 hours a day idk i just feel like it takes two to make a mess I applaud Welmu's ability to do math. Though if the agreement was for 5 hours a day minimum it would say that. However you have the obligation to stream for 150 hours a month. I don't imagine its much of a stretch to think of the players playing the game for 8 hours a day. So if you turn the stream on during that time, you finish with over 11 days in the month, to do whatever. They partnered with twitch, so even previously non featured streamers would become featured. Which would enable them to profit off of commercials, while giving a % to MoW. Lol, just stop with the ridiculous 8hours a day streaming thing. Thats funny Did you even read what he wrote? Do you know how annoying it must be to stream for 8 hours straight? I mean, we're not just talking about taking a short break. You're not making any revenue when you take a break from streaming, so streaming 8 hours straight is basically just taking short breaks to eat maybe a small bag of pretzels or something, going to the bathroom, getting a glass of water. 5 hours a day is a bit unreasonable for streaming, especially when you consider the fact that most people don't want to stream every single day. Even if you only take 2 days off, you're still going to have to make up 10 hours over 5 days (7 hours a day!). TLO, the #1 streamer in terms of hours, only had 142.5 hours. It's a ridiculous thing for MoW to want their players to do, and if they're charging that much for them to go there in the first place, they should have just included that amount (or some of it) in the contract instead of forcing them to stream that much. We never streamed for 8 hours a day. It was a set amount per month. So you could not stream monday and stream all day saturday/sunday and be fine, You can break it up throughout the week. It wasn't set per day.
How much are they paying you to write all this?
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On September 13 2012 09:06 r.Evo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2012 09:03 LgNkarmy wrote:
Okay guys I want to clear a few things. As some of you know I also lived in Ministry of Win. I was one of the first players to move into the house, roughly a week after they opened their doors to the public. I want to just add my opinion and my experience. While living in the MoW house there were obvious errors due to inexperience, It happens. The house is still new, the whole concept of the house is new, They're doing everything on their own. They don't have another pro house to get tips from, They have to trial and error everything themselves. Mistakes are going to happen.
With that said, The contract was a bit confusing at first but they gave everyone in the house a full day to sit down together and point out what we didn't like and what we wanted to change. They were very receptive to our changes. Everything we weren't comfortable with they changed, and if we didn't understand something they clarified it. I had no problems with the contract after we all re-worked it. Players saying the NDA are keeping them from not saying anything isn't true. The NDA never said anything about not talking badly about MoW or talking about what happened within the house. They just want to make sure that we don't tell out company secrets to competitors since they were the first of this type of gaming house, It was just to cover themselves. It was all understood, It was to keep company secrets since everyone living in the house had exposure to how the entire house ran.
The food was an issue, At the time I was living there I thought we were eating quiet healthy, but at the same time it was only 9 people total to cook for. You have to realise that cooking for 12+ players and staff, It's hard to prepare fish and salads for every meal, and it's nearly impossible to have "perfect amount" of food. If they cook to much then they lose money from throwing it out, If they don't cook enough players complain. It's a really rough balance. Even when the meals weren't that big, We had access to pieces of bread with various spreads, bowls of cereal at any time of the day, and other left overs if there are any. Once again the project and house is still new so give them time to work out the kinks.
As for them owing Fuzer money, It does state that we are to pay for the entire month even if we leave half way through. They have to plan and buy/prepare for an entire month so to get a refund after they already spent the money planning on you living in the house, isn't really fair to ask for. It sucks Fuzer couldn't get a refund, especially since he didn't sign the contract yet, but at the same time MoW is a business and they have to plan around having the proper income to sustain the house. This was poorly handled all over, Mistakes were clearly made. Once again the project is new, I doubt they'll ever allow a player to move in before signing a contract.
Overall my time in MoW was fantastic. We had a very well set schedule as far as eating/practising. We would eat the same time every day, and practice the same time every day. Matiz was a amazing coach, He was very helpful to help find us new builds and then finding us players to practice it with. The practice was regulated, It was up to the players to make sure it was efficient. He was there for assistance, He asked on a daily basis if anyone wanted help, And he would go out of his way to make sure we were taken care of. Same with the work out schedule, Me snute and Cyto were the only players who used the gym while we lived there, We didn't need a work out schedule. If you want to work out do it, If not practice. They can't hold your hand for everything. Even in a korean team house, The coach does what he can to guide you and make sure you're on track with practice, but if you're not playing efficiently then it's your own fault.
So please lower your pitch forks. Once again the project is still new, Mistakes will be made and mistakes have been made. Was my entire experience perfect? No I had a few times of drama, but it was cleared up. Just try to see it from both sides, and remember this is still a business.
Thanks
~~LgNkarmy Thanks a lot for that post. Would be cool if someone could collect the various "important" statements in this thread and compile them into a nice package that can be linked in the OP. Especially this part: Show nested quote +As for them owing Fuzer money, It does state that we are to pay for the entire month even if we leave half way through. Shows the entire OP and the shit storm it caused in a different light. That type of condition is quite normal for anything similar I can think of (which makes asking for your money back so ridiculous in this case).
Didn't Fuzer say he paid for 2 months while he got kicked in 3 weeks? They'd owe him a months rent still. Not to mention he did not sign the contract so i doubt it'd apply to him
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United States997 Posts
On September 13 2012 09:07 Gardel wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2012 09:06 r.Evo wrote:On September 13 2012 09:03 LgNkarmy wrote:
Okay guys I want to clear a few things. As some of you know I also lived in Ministry of Win. I was one of the first players to move into the house, roughly a week after they opened their doors to the public. I want to just add my opinion and my experience. While living in the MoW house there were obvious errors due to inexperience, It happens. The house is still new, the whole concept of the house is new, They're doing everything on their own. They don't have another pro house to get tips from, They have to trial and error everything themselves. Mistakes are going to happen.
With that said, The contract was a bit confusing at first but they gave everyone in the house a full day to sit down together and point out what we didn't like and what we wanted to change. They were very receptive to our changes. Everything we weren't comfortable with they changed, and if we didn't understand something they clarified it. I had no problems with the contract after we all re-worked it. Players saying the NDA are keeping them from not saying anything isn't true. The NDA never said anything about not talking badly about MoW or talking about what happened within the house. They just want to make sure that we don't tell out company secrets to competitors since they were the first of this type of gaming house, It was just to cover themselves. It was all understood, It was to keep company secrets since everyone living in the house had exposure to how the entire house ran.
The food was an issue, At the time I was living there I thought we were eating quiet healthy, but at the same time it was only 9 people total to cook for. You have to realise that cooking for 12+ players and staff, It's hard to prepare fish and salads for every meal, and it's nearly impossible to have "perfect amount" of food. If they cook to much then they lose money from throwing it out, If they don't cook enough players complain. It's a really rough balance. Even when the meals weren't that big, We had access to pieces of bread with various spreads, bowls of cereal at any time of the day, and other left overs if there are any. Once again the project and house is still new so give them time to work out the kinks.
As for them owing Fuzer money, It does state that we are to pay for the entire month even if we leave half way through. They have to plan and buy/prepare for an entire month so to get a refund after they already spent the money planning on you living in the house, isn't really fair to ask for. It sucks Fuzer couldn't get a refund, especially since he didn't sign the contract yet, but at the same time MoW is a business and they have to plan around having the proper income to sustain the house. This was poorly handled all over, Mistakes were clearly made. Once again the project is new, I doubt they'll ever allow a player to move in before signing a contract.
Overall my time in MoW was fantastic. We had a very well set schedule as far as eating/practising. We would eat the same time every day, and practice the same time every day. Matiz was a amazing coach, He was very helpful to help find us new builds and then finding us players to practice it with. The practice was regulated, It was up to the players to make sure it was efficient. He was there for assistance, He asked on a daily basis if anyone wanted help, And he would go out of his way to make sure we were taken care of. Same with the work out schedule, Me snute and Cyto were the only players who used the gym while we lived there, We didn't need a work out schedule. If you want to work out do it, If not practice. They can't hold your hand for everything. Even in a korean team house, The coach does what he can to guide you and make sure you're on track with practice, but if you're not playing efficiently then it's your own fault.
So please lower your pitch forks. Once again the project is still new, Mistakes will be made and mistakes have been made. Was my entire experience perfect? No I had a few times of drama, but it was cleared up. Just try to see it from both sides, and remember this is still a business.
Thanks
~~LgNkarmy Thanks a lot for that post. Would be cool if someone could collect the various "important" statements in this thread and compile them into a nice package that can be linked in the OP. Especially this part: As for them owing Fuzer money, It does state that we are to pay for the entire month even if we leave half way through. Shows the entire OP and the shit storm it caused in a different light. That type of condition is quite normal for anything similar I can think of (which makes asking for your money back so ridiculous in this case). Lol you must be from Ministry of Fail, because everything you post is to defend them. Boss secret smurf account? And really it doesn´t matter what karmy said, facts are facts.
What Karmy said was facts.
You seem to already be heavily biased on this topic.
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