On September 13 2012 08:23 MinistryOfWin wrote: We didn't wanted to start the flame war but to complete this in civilized manner. Fuzer was reprimanded more than 10 times, about cleaning his room, keeping the gaming room clean, nothing helped. We have decided that we will sign the contract as soon as possible so we can enforce the house rules on him, but he declined. He declined second time.
Streaming time - quote from the contract: 150 hours per month, unless having a series of training events or trips to StarCraft II tournaments. We are all humans, we are not forcing the players to stream 4 hours a day.
Streaming ad-revenue: Thanks to strategic partnership with Twitch, players living in the house still can earn more money from ad-revenue than they normally could, Fuzer didn't even had any partnership before that.
150 hours per month is 5 hours a day....
Welmu dropping them facts like a boss!! ♥
so they are right that it isn't 4 hours a day
idk i just feel like it takes two to make a mess
I applaud Welmu's ability to do math. Though if the agreement was for 5 hours a day minimum it would say that. However you have the obligation to stream for 150 hours a month. I don't imagine its much of a stretch to think of the players playing the game for 8 hours a day. So if you turn the stream on during that time, you finish with over 11 days in the month, to do whatever. They partnered with twitch, so even previously non featured streamers would become featured. Which would enable them to profit off of commercials, while giving a % to MoW.
Lol, just stop with the ridiculous 8hours a day streaming thing. Thats funny
Did you even read what he wrote?
Do you know how annoying it must be to stream for 8 hours straight? I mean, we're not just talking about taking a short break. You're not making any revenue when you take a break from streaming, so streaming 8 hours straight is basically just taking short breaks to eat maybe a small bag of pretzels or something, going to the bathroom, getting a glass of water.
5 hours a day is a bit unreasonable for streaming, especially when you consider the fact that most people don't want to stream every single day. Even if you only take 2 days off, you're still going to have to make up 10 hours over 5 days (7 hours a day!). TLO, the #1 streamer in terms of hours, only had 142.5 hours. It's a ridiculous thing for MoW to want their players to do, and if they're charging that much for them to go there in the first place, they should have just included that amount (or some of it) in the contract instead of forcing them to stream that much.
We never streamed for 8 hours a day. It was a set amount per month. So you could not stream monday and stream all day saturday/sunday and be fine, You can break it up throughout the week. It wasn't set per day.
WELL, now that both side has released their statements, and both side offered us nothing but "my words vs his", now what? Should we still write to their sponsors? I mean honestly, with no further proof of anything, are you guys still going to make assumptions based on he said i said she said?
Oh lol this again. Ye lets write the sponsors and while we are at it, Fuzers Mom. I mean he didnt clean his room, she should know that.
Gotta love people coming in and giving comments like "oh i see someone is getting their ass kicked here" without actually reading through more than 5posts of the whole thread and having no idea what's going on.
On September 13 2012 09:03 LgNkarmy wrote: Okay guys I want to clear a few things. As some of you know I also lived in Ministry of Win. I was one of the first players to move into the house, roughly a week after they opened their doors to the public. I want to just add my opinion and my experience. While living in the MoW house there were obvious errors due to inexperience, It happens. The house is still new, the whole concept of the house is new, They're doing everything on their own. They don't have another pro house to get tips from, They have to trial and error everything themselves. Mistakes are going to happen.
With that said, The contract was a bit confusing at first but they gave everyone in the house a full day to sit down together and point out what we didn't like and what we wanted to change. They were very receptive to our changes. Everything we weren't comfortable with they changed, and if we didn't understand something they clarified it. I had no problems with the contract after we all re-worked it. Players saying the NDA are keeping them from not saying anything isn't true. The NDA never said anything about not talking badly about MoW or talking about what happened within the house. They just want to make sure that we don't tell out company secrets to competitors since they were the first of this type of gaming house, It was just to cover themselves. It was all understood, It was to keep company secrets since everyone living in the house had exposure to how the entire house ran.
The food was an issue, At the time I was living there I thought we were eating quiet healthy, but at the same time it was only 9 people total to cook for. You have to realise that cooking for 12+ players and staff, It's hard to prepare fish and salads for every meal, and it's nearly impossible to have "perfect amount" of food. If they cook to much then they lose money from throwing it out, If they don't cook enough players complain. It's a really rough balance. Even when the meals weren't that big, We had access to pieces of bread with various spreads, bowls of cereal at any time of the day, and other left overs if there are any. Once again the project and house is still new so give them time to work out the kinks.
As for them owing Fuzer money, It does state that we are to pay for the entire month even if we leave half way through. They have to plan and buy/prepare for an entire month so to get a refund after they already spent the money planning on you living in the house, isn't really fair to ask for. It sucks Fuzer couldn't get a refund, especially since he didn't sign the contract yet, but at the same time MoW is a business and they have to plan around having the proper income to sustain the house. This was poorly handled all over, Mistakes were clearly made. Once again the project is new, I doubt they'll ever allow a player to move in before signing a contract.
Overall my time in MoW was fantastic. We had a very well set schedule as far as eating/practising. We would eat the same time every day, and practice the same time every day. Matiz was a amazing coach, He was very helpful to help find us new builds and then finding us players to practice it with. The practice was regulated, It was up to the players to make sure it was efficient. He was there for assistance, He asked on a daily basis if anyone wanted help, And he would go out of his way to make sure we were taken care of. Same with the work out schedule, Me snute and Cyto were the only players who used the gym while we lived there, We didn't need a work out schedule. If you want to work out do it, If not practice. They can't hold your hand for everything. Even in a korean team house, The coach does what he can to guide you and make sure you're on track with practice, but if you're not playing efficiently then it's your own fault.
So please lower your pitch forks. Once again the project is still new, Mistakes will be made and mistakes have been made. Was my entire experience perfect? No I had a few times of drama, but it was cleared up. Just try to see it from both sides, and remember this is still a business.
Thanks ~~LgNkarmy
What about the part where Fuzer wasnt allowed to show the contract to his lawyer?
On September 13 2012 09:08 MountainDewJunkie wrote: Come to MoW. Become marginally better at a computer game while overpaying for rent, with no services, and no food.
On September 13 2012 08:23 MinistryOfWin wrote: We didn't wanted to start the flame war but to complete this in civilized manner. Fuzer was reprimanded more than 10 times, about cleaning his room, keeping the gaming room clean, nothing helped. We have decided that we will sign the contract as soon as possible so we can enforce the house rules on him, but he declined. He declined second time.
Streaming time - quote from the contract: 150 hours per month, unless having a series of training events or trips to StarCraft II tournaments. We are all humans, we are not forcing the players to stream 4 hours a day.
Streaming ad-revenue: Thanks to strategic partnership with Twitch, players living in the house still can earn more money from ad-revenue than they normally could, Fuzer didn't even had any partnership before that.
150 hours per month is 5 hours a day....
Welmu dropping them facts like a boss!! ♥
so they are right that it isn't 4 hours a day
idk i just feel like it takes two to make a mess
I applaud Welmu's ability to do math. Though if the agreement was for 5 hours a day minimum it would say that. However you have the obligation to stream for 150 hours a month. I don't imagine its much of a stretch to think of the players playing the game for 8 hours a day. So if you turn the stream on during that time, you finish with over 11 days in the month, to do whatever. They partnered with twitch, so even previously non featured streamers would become featured. Which would enable them to profit off of commercials, while giving a % to MoW.
Lol, just stop with the ridiculous 8hours a day streaming thing. Thats funny
Did you even read what he wrote?
Do you know how annoying it must be to stream for 8 hours straight? I mean, we're not just talking about taking a short break. You're not making any revenue when you take a break from streaming, so streaming 8 hours straight is basically just taking short breaks to eat maybe a small bag of pretzels or something, going to the bathroom, getting a glass of water.
5 hours a day is a bit unreasonable for streaming, especially when you consider the fact that most people don't want to stream every single day. Even if you only take 2 days off, you're still going to have to make up 10 hours over 5 days (7 hours a day!). TLO, the #1 streamer in terms of hours, only had 142.5 hours. It's a ridiculous thing for MoW to want their players to do, and if they're charging that much for them to go there in the first place, they should have just included that amount (or some of it) in the contract instead of forcing them to stream that much.
We never streamed for 8 hours a day. It was a set amount per month. So you could not stream monday and stream all day saturday/sunday and be fine, You can break it up throughout the week. It wasn't set per day.
On September 13 2012 08:28 ilbh wrote: the thing is that they didn't want to give him his money back, they only offered him back when he said he would make it public.
This is the main point of it all i think. If the manager wasn't a dick and gave the money back when the player left the house, this would have been a non isue.
Contracts and recips are there for a reason, they protect people from scumbags without moral values. Fuzer was naive.
Let's say I rent out rooms to people I meet online and out of the ten places I have available the demand is high enough that it's always full. Furthermore, it takes some time to set it up with new people and that's why I ask all of my customers to tell me a month in advance if they want to leave.
Now a guy comes along who gives me a two month payment in advance, after a month and 5 days he tells me he won't sign my contract and would rather leave instead. My room will be most likely empty for the entire month because of set-up times and now that it's suddenly about his money he starts to care and threatens legal action because of something he already got but refused to sign a contract about? I'd probably make sure that I'm not telling this in written but "Oh, whoops, damn, I'd love to pay you your money back but sadly I can't find our signed contract - can you?" sounds like a likely and reasonable answer he'd get after causing a mess for all the time.
Are both sides unprofessional and/or naive? Yeah, sure. Can I think of any similar situation where the guy would actually get his money back? (Think renting a place, a hotel room, a subscription) - Nope. And for good reasons.
Incorrect. He was never given the choice to stay at the house, so it was not his wish to leave. I mean what kind of business refuses to give you a copy of the contract and won't even send it to your lawyer unless he sends you credentials first? It's ridiculous.
If I tell you to "sign my fucking contract or leave my fucking house" you still have a choice. It's not nicely put but it's just the same. That's not forcing you to leave, that's insisting on you finally signing a contract that should have been signed a month ago.
No, they have FORCED him to leave as they were unwilling to clear up his issues with the contract and then demands that he signs it. It's not a choice for any person in their right mind.
Have you ever rented something anywhere?
Try and go to a hotel. Rent a room. Pay them two months in advance. (Hint: Not normal hotel would let you live there without a contract. Let's assume for the sake of argument that they were nice/incompetent/not giving a fuck at that point in time.) After 35 days start arguing about the contract with the climax being "Sign it, or leave".
Well, guess what: If they wouldn't have been nice/incompetent/not giving a fuck in the first place, you wouldn't been able to get a room there in the first place without signing the exact same contract. Delaying it was a pretty stupid idea, yeah, but that doesn't make "sign it or leave it" anything horrible. That's how any agreement works.
On September 13 2012 08:23 MinistryOfWin wrote: We didn't wanted to start the flame war but to complete this in civilized manner. Fuzer was reprimanded more than 10 times, about cleaning his room, keeping the gaming room clean, nothing helped. We have decided that we will sign the contract as soon as possible so we can enforce the house rules on him, but he declined. He declined second time.
Streaming time - quote from the contract: 150 hours per month, unless having a series of training events or trips to StarCraft II tournaments. We are all humans, we are not forcing the players to stream 4 hours a day.
Streaming ad-revenue: Thanks to strategic partnership with Twitch, players living in the house still can earn more money from ad-revenue than they normally could, Fuzer didn't even had any partnership before that.
150 hours per month is 5 hours a day....
Welmu dropping them facts like a boss!! ♥
so they are right that it isn't 4 hours a day
idk i just feel like it takes two to make a mess
I applaud Welmu's ability to do math. Though if the agreement was for 5 hours a day minimum it would say that. However you have the obligation to stream for 150 hours a month. I don't imagine its much of a stretch to think of the players playing the game for 8 hours a day. So if you turn the stream on during that time, you finish with over 11 days in the month, to do whatever. They partnered with twitch, so even previously non featured streamers would become featured. Which would enable them to profit off of commercials, while giving a % to MoW.
Lol, just stop with the ridiculous 8hours a day streaming thing. Thats funny
Did you even read what he wrote?
Do you know how annoying it must be to stream for 8 hours straight? I mean, we're not just talking about taking a short break. You're not making any revenue when you take a break from streaming, so streaming 8 hours straight is basically just taking short breaks to eat maybe a small bag of pretzels or something, going to the bathroom, getting a glass of water.
5 hours a day is a bit unreasonable for streaming, especially when you consider the fact that most people don't want to stream every single day. Even if you only take 2 days off, you're still going to have to make up 10 hours over 5 days (7 hours a day!). TLO, the #1 streamer in terms of hours, only had 142.5 hours. It's a ridiculous thing for MoW to want their players to do, and if they're charging that much for them to go there in the first place, they should have just included that amount (or some of it) in the contract instead of forcing them to stream that much.
We never streamed for 8 hours a day. It was a set amount per month. So you could not stream monday and stream all day saturday/sunday and be fine, You can break it up throughout the week. It wasn't set per day.
I didn't claim that you did. I said that if you took off 2 days a week from streaming (which is fairly common), you have to make up 10 hours for that week in 5 days (an additional 2 hours per day with some basic math), and then from there it just goes up and up. I said that trying to stream for 8 hours a day is incredibly frustrating and that if you take a break you basically generate no revenue due to lack of commercials/ads.
On September 13 2012 09:03 LgNkarmy wrote: The food was an issue, At the time I was living there I thought we were eating quiet healthy, but at the same time it was only 9 people total to cook for. You have to realise that cooking for 12+ players and staff, It's hard to prepare fish and salads for every meal, and it's nearly impossible to have "perfect amount" of food. If they cook to much then they lose money from throwing it out, If they don't cook enough players complain. It's a really rough balance. Even when the meals weren't that big, We had access to pieces of bread with various spreads, bowls of cereal at any time of the day, and other left overs if there are any. Once again the project and house is still new so give them time to work out the kinks.
Any trained cook/chef knows how to prepare food for a number of people, including techniques such as making double and freezing half of basics such as pasta sauces, pastry, etc.
On September 13 2012 08:23 MinistryOfWin wrote: We didn't wanted to start the flame war but to complete this in civilized manner. Fuzer was reprimanded more than 10 times, about cleaning his room, keeping the gaming room clean, nothing helped. We have decided that we will sign the contract as soon as possible so we can enforce the house rules on him, but he declined. He declined second time.
Streaming time - quote from the contract: 150 hours per month, unless having a series of training events or trips to StarCraft II tournaments. We are all humans, we are not forcing the players to stream 4 hours a day.
Streaming ad-revenue: Thanks to strategic partnership with Twitch, players living in the house still can earn more money from ad-revenue than they normally could, Fuzer didn't even had any partnership before that.
150 hours per month is 5 hours a day....
Welmu dropping them facts like a boss!! ♥
so they are right that it isn't 4 hours a day
idk i just feel like it takes two to make a mess
I applaud Welmu's ability to do math. Though if the agreement was for 5 hours a day minimum it would say that. However you have the obligation to stream for 150 hours a month. I don't imagine its much of a stretch to think of the players playing the game for 8 hours a day. So if you turn the stream on during that time, you finish with over 11 days in the month, to do whatever. They partnered with twitch, so even previously non featured streamers would become featured. Which would enable them to profit off of commercials, while giving a % to MoW.
Lol, just stop with the ridiculous 8hours a day streaming thing. Thats funny
Did you even read what he wrote?
Do you know how annoying it must be to stream for 8 hours straight? I mean, we're not just talking about taking a short break. You're not making any revenue when you take a break from streaming, so streaming 8 hours straight is basically just taking short breaks to eat maybe a small bag of pretzels or something, going to the bathroom, getting a glass of water.
5 hours a day is a bit unreasonable for streaming, especially when you consider the fact that most people don't want to stream every single day. Even if you only take 2 days off, you're still going to have to make up 10 hours over 5 days (7 hours a day!). TLO, the #1 streamer in terms of hours, only had 142.5 hours. It's a ridiculous thing for MoW to want their players to do, and if they're charging that much for them to go there in the first place, they should have just included that amount (or some of it) in the contract instead of forcing them to stream that much.
sounds a little bit like that eclypsia contract, but i can't remember if it was that DOTA team or desrwo/scarlett/ ... name forgotten
On September 13 2012 09:03 LgNkarmy wrote: Okay guys I want to clear a few things. As some of you know I also lived in Ministry of Win. I was one of the first players to move into the house, roughly a week after they opened their doors to the public. I want to just add my opinion and my experience. While living in the MoW house there were obvious errors due to inexperience, It happens. The house is still new, the whole concept of the house is new, They're doing everything on their own. They don't have another pro house to get tips from, They have to trial and error everything themselves. Mistakes are going to happen.
With that said, The contract was a bit confusing at first but they gave everyone in the house a full day to sit down together and point out what we didn't like and what we wanted to change. They were very receptive to our changes. Everything we weren't comfortable with they changed, and if we didn't understand something they clarified it. I had no problems with the contract after we all re-worked it. Players saying the NDA are keeping them from not saying anything isn't true. The NDA never said anything about not talking badly about MoW or talking about what happened within the house. They just want to make sure that we don't tell out company secrets to competitors since they were the first of this type of gaming house, It was just to cover themselves. It was all understood, It was to keep company secrets since everyone living in the house had exposure to how the entire house ran.
The food was an issue, At the time I was living there I thought we were eating quiet healthy, but at the same time it was only 9 people total to cook for. You have to realise that cooking for 12+ players and staff, It's hard to prepare fish and salads for every meal, and it's nearly impossible to have "perfect amount" of food. If they cook to much then they lose money from throwing it out, If they don't cook enough players complain. It's a really rough balance. Even when the meals weren't that big, We had access to pieces of bread with various spreads, bowls of cereal at any time of the day, and other left overs if there are any. Once again the project and house is still new so give them time to work out the kinks.
As for them owing Fuzer money, It does state that we are to pay for the entire month even if we leave half way through. They have to plan and buy/prepare for an entire month so to get a refund after they already spent the money planning on you living in the house, isn't really fair to ask for. It sucks Fuzer couldn't get a refund, especially since he didn't sign the contract yet, but at the same time MoW is a business and they have to plan around having the proper income to sustain the house. This was poorly handled all over, Mistakes were clearly made. Once again the project is new, I doubt they'll ever allow a player to move in before signing a contract.
Overall my time in MoW was fantastic. We had a very well set schedule as far as eating/practising. We would eat the same time every day, and practice the same time every day. Matiz was a amazing coach, He was very helpful to help find us new builds and then finding us players to practice it with. The practice was regulated, It was up to the players to make sure it was efficient. He was there for assistance, He asked on a daily basis if anyone wanted help, And he would go out of his way to make sure we were taken care of. Same with the work out schedule, Me snute and Cyto were the only players who used the gym while we lived there, We didn't need a work out schedule. If you want to work out do it, If not practice. They can't hold your hand for everything. Even in a korean team house, The coach does what he can to guide you and make sure you're on track with practice, but if you're not playing efficiently then it's your own fault.
So please lower your pitch forks. Once again the project is still new, Mistakes will be made and mistakes have been made. Was my entire experience perfect? No I had a few times of drama, but it was cleared up. Just try to see it from both sides, and remember this is still a business.
Thanks ~~LgNkarmy
What about the part where Fuzer wasnt allowed to show the contract to his lawyer?
He was aloud, It was stated they agreed to that but they wanted to see the lawyers license. They never got that and needed it to be signed. Like I said it should have been done before he moved it, but mistakes were made.
so far i see fuzer made drama about himself being a kiddo, mow making some PR mistakes and gamers who were/are in mow defending it(mow); inflated drama about nothing ...
What a load of buttocks from the Ministry of Magic, He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named is back I tell ya, and his assistant Wormtail pwned Cedric Diggory so hard he went to Twilight.
Edit: Oops, wrong Ministry. But yeah, seems like the article didnt really answer much. But then again, most people will take the player's side (since he posted first). Maybe we should let them handle this internally (with lawyers and whatnot) since we have NO IDEA WHO IS RIGHT.
On September 13 2012 08:24 Welmu wrote: [quote] 150 hours per month is 5 hours a day....
Welmu dropping them facts like a boss!! ♥
so they are right that it isn't 4 hours a day
idk i just feel like it takes two to make a mess
I applaud Welmu's ability to do math. Though if the agreement was for 5 hours a day minimum it would say that. However you have the obligation to stream for 150 hours a month. I don't imagine its much of a stretch to think of the players playing the game for 8 hours a day. So if you turn the stream on during that time, you finish with over 11 days in the month, to do whatever. They partnered with twitch, so even previously non featured streamers would become featured. Which would enable them to profit off of commercials, while giving a % to MoW.
Lol, just stop with the ridiculous 8hours a day streaming thing. Thats funny
Did you even read what he wrote?
Do you know how annoying it must be to stream for 8 hours straight? I mean, we're not just talking about taking a short break. You're not making any revenue when you take a break from streaming, so streaming 8 hours straight is basically just taking short breaks to eat maybe a small bag of pretzels or something, going to the bathroom, getting a glass of water.
5 hours a day is a bit unreasonable for streaming, especially when you consider the fact that most people don't want to stream every single day. Even if you only take 2 days off, you're still going to have to make up 10 hours over 5 days (7 hours a day!). TLO, the #1 streamer in terms of hours, only had 142.5 hours. It's a ridiculous thing for MoW to want their players to do, and if they're charging that much for them to go there in the first place, they should have just included that amount (or some of it) in the contract instead of forcing them to stream that much.
We never streamed for 8 hours a day. It was a set amount per month. So you could not stream monday and stream all day saturday/sunday and be fine, You can break it up throughout the week. It wasn't set per day.
How much are they paying you to write all this?
Grow up
Nothing.. My stay at MoW wasn't perfect but I don't like how much you guys are blowing up on MoW. It was a mistake, but bringing this to the public is just dumb.
On September 13 2012 08:28 ilbh wrote: the thing is that they didn't want to give him his money back, they only offered him back when he said he would make it public.
This is the main point of it all i think. If the manager wasn't a dick and gave the money back when the player left the house, this would have been a non isue.
Contracts and recips are there for a reason, they protect people from scumbags without moral values. Fuzer was naive.
Let's say I rent out rooms to people I meet online and out of the ten places I have available the demand is high enough that it's always full. Furthermore, it takes some time to set it up with new people and that's why I ask all of my customers to tell me a month in advance if they want to leave.
Now a guy comes along who gives me a two month payment in advance, after a month and 5 days he tells me he won't sign my contract and would rather leave instead. My room will be most likely empty for the entire month because of set-up times and now that it's suddenly about his money he starts to care and threatens legal action because of something he already got but refused to sign a contract about? I'd probably make sure that I'm not telling this in written but "Oh, whoops, damn, I'd love to pay you your money back but sadly I can't find our signed contract - can you?" sounds like a likely and reasonable answer he'd get after causing a mess for all the time.
Are both sides unprofessional and/or naive? Yeah, sure. Can I think of any similar situation where the guy would actually get his money back? (Think renting a place, a hotel room, a subscription) - Nope. And for good reasons.
Incorrect. He was never given the choice to stay at the house, so it was not his wish to leave. I mean what kind of business refuses to give you a copy of the contract and won't even send it to your lawyer unless he sends you credentials first? It's ridiculous.
If I tell you to "sign my fucking contract or leave my fucking house" you still have a choice. It's not nicely put but it's just the same. That's not forcing you to leave, that's insisting on you finally signing a contract that should have been signed a month ago.
No, they have FORCED him to leave as they were unwilling to clear up his issues with the contract and then demands that he signs it. It's not a choice for any person in their right mind.
Have you ever rented something anywhere?
Try and go to a hotel. Rent a room. Pay them two months in advance. (Hint: Not normal hotel would let you live there without a contract. Let's assume for the sake of argument that they were nice/incompetent/not giving a fuck at that point in time.) After 35 days start arguing about the contract with the climax being "Sign it, or leave".
Well, guess what: If they wouldn't have been nice/incompetent/not giving a fuck in the first place, you wouldn't been able to get a room there in the first place without signing the exact same contract. Delaying it was a pretty stupid idea, yeah, but that doesn't make "sign it or leave it" anything horrible. That's how any agreement works.
when you rent a house you have to sign a contract before you can move in, otherwise cluster fucks like this situation occur, moving in and then asking them to sign the contract after almost 2 months isn't an agreement, it's a cluster fuck
On September 13 2012 08:23 MinistryOfWin wrote: We didn't wanted to start the flame war but to complete this in civilized manner. Fuzer was reprimanded more than 10 times, about cleaning his room, keeping the gaming room clean, nothing helped. We have decided that we will sign the contract as soon as possible so we can enforce the house rules on him, but he declined. He declined second time.
Streaming time - quote from the contract: 150 hours per month, unless having a series of training events or trips to StarCraft II tournaments. We are all humans, we are not forcing the players to stream 4 hours a day.
Streaming ad-revenue: Thanks to strategic partnership with Twitch, players living in the house still can earn more money from ad-revenue than they normally could, Fuzer didn't even had any partnership before that.
150 hours per month is 5 hours a day....
Welmu dropping them facts like a boss!! ♥
so they are right that it isn't 4 hours a day
idk i just feel like it takes two to make a mess
I applaud Welmu's ability to do math. Though if the agreement was for 5 hours a day minimum it would say that. However you have the obligation to stream for 150 hours a month. I don't imagine its much of a stretch to think of the players playing the game for 8 hours a day. So if you turn the stream on during that time, you finish with over 11 days in the month, to do whatever. They partnered with twitch, so even previously non featured streamers would become featured. Which would enable them to profit off of commercials, while giving a % to MoW.
Lol, just stop with the ridiculous 8hours a day streaming thing. Thats funny
Did you even read what he wrote?
Do you know how annoying it must be to stream for 8 hours straight? I mean, we're not just talking about taking a short break. You're not making any revenue when you take a break from streaming, so streaming 8 hours straight is basically just taking short breaks to eat maybe a small bag of pretzels or something, going to the bathroom, getting a glass of water.
5 hours a day is a bit unreasonable for streaming, especially when you consider the fact that most people don't want to stream every single day. Even if you only take 2 days off, you're still going to have to make up 10 hours over 5 days (7 hours a day!). TLO, the #1 streamer in terms of hours, only had 142.5 hours. It's a ridiculous thing for MoW to want their players to do, and if they're charging that much for them to go there in the first place, they should have just included that amount (or some of it) in the contract instead of forcing them to stream that much.
We never streamed for 8 hours a day. It was a set amount per month. So you could not stream monday and stream all day saturday/sunday and be fine, You can break it up throughout the week. It wasn't set per day.
150 hr a month is like a full time job (170hr / month on average). Also streaming is not training. Just look at all the top streamer on TL and see where that got them (hint, not better).
But, all those I could accept, their house, their rule.
You don't tell someone they have to stream essentially a full time job AFTER they got there though. Which is what Fuzer claimed and MoW did not refute at all.
On September 13 2012 09:08 MountainDewJunkie wrote: Come to MoW. Become marginally better at a computer game while overpaying for rent, with no services, and no food.
It's not even the overpaying that I think is the issue. Hell, even the required time of playing per month should be expected, as that's the whole point of moving there. The issue becomes not feeling comfortable with the contract, and being kicked out as a result of wanting an attorney to look over it, while being refused to have your prepaid rent refunded. Additionally, it sounds like the head of that house is very unprofessional, if he's throwing parties, stumbling home drunk and disrupting the player's sleep.
On September 13 2012 09:03 LgNkarmy wrote: Okay guys I want to clear a few things. As some of you know I also lived in Ministry of Win. I was one of the first players to move into the house, roughly a week after they opened their doors to the public. I want to just add my opinion and my experience. While living in the MoW house there were obvious errors due to inexperience, It happens. The house is still new, the whole concept of the house is new, They're doing everything on their own. They don't have another pro house to get tips from, They have to trial and error everything themselves. Mistakes are going to happen.
With that said, The contract was a bit confusing at first but they gave everyone in the house a full day to sit down together and point out what we didn't like and what we wanted to change. They were very receptive to our changes. Everything we weren't comfortable with they changed, and if we didn't understand something they clarified it. I had no problems with the contract after we all re-worked it. Players saying the NDA are keeping them from not saying anything isn't true. The NDA never said anything about not talking badly about MoW or talking about what happened within the house. They just want to make sure that we don't tell out company secrets to competitors since they were the first of this type of gaming house, It was just to cover themselves. It was all understood, It was to keep company secrets since everyone living in the house had exposure to how the entire house ran.
The food was an issue, At the time I was living there I thought we were eating quiet healthy, but at the same time it was only 9 people total to cook for. You have to realise that cooking for 12+ players and staff, It's hard to prepare fish and salads for every meal, and it's nearly impossible to have "perfect amount" of food. If they cook to much then they lose money from throwing it out, If they don't cook enough players complain. It's a really rough balance. Even when the meals weren't that big, We had access to pieces of bread with various spreads, bowls of cereal at any time of the day, and other left overs if there are any. Once again the project and house is still new so give them time to work out the kinks.
As for them owing Fuzer money, It does state that we are to pay for the entire month even if we leave half way through. They have to plan and buy/prepare for an entire month so to get a refund after they already spent the money planning on you living in the house, isn't really fair to ask for. It sucks Fuzer couldn't get a refund, especially since he didn't sign the contract yet, but at the same time MoW is a business and they have to plan around having the proper income to sustain the house. This was poorly handled all over, Mistakes were clearly made. Once again the project is new, I doubt they'll ever allow a player to move in before signing a contract.
Overall my time in MoW was fantastic. We had a very well set schedule as far as eating/practising. We would eat the same time every day, and practice the same time every day. Matiz was a amazing coach, He was very helpful to help find us new builds and then finding us players to practice it with. The practice was regulated, It was up to the players to make sure it was efficient. He was there for assistance, He asked on a daily basis if anyone wanted help, And he would go out of his way to make sure we were taken care of. Same with the work out schedule, Me snute and Cyto were the only players who used the gym while we lived there, We didn't need a work out schedule. If you want to work out do it, If not practice. They can't hold your hand for everything. Even in a korean team house, The coach does what he can to guide you and make sure you're on track with practice, but if you're not playing efficiently then it's your own fault.
So please lower your pitch forks. Once again the project is still new, Mistakes will be made and mistakes have been made. Was my entire experience perfect? No I had a few times of drama, but it was cleared up. Just try to see it from both sides, and remember this is still a business.
Thanks ~~LgNkarmy
What about the part where Fuzer wasnt allowed to show the contract to his lawyer?
He was, all he had to do was have his lawyer send over his credentials. You see, when dealing with NDAs, you tend to want to verify the claims of the other party to ensure everything in the NDA and contract are followed through (IE: The contract isn't released to the internet because your lawyer is actually a 12 year old in a basement who has no understanding of any of law). Verifying he is actually a lawyer is a protection for both Fuzer and MoW in any mediation.
On September 13 2012 09:03 LgNkarmy wrote: Okay guys I want to clear a few things. As some of you know I also lived in Ministry of Win. I was one of the first players to move into the house, roughly a week after they opened their doors to the public. I want to just add my opinion and my experience. While living in the MoW house there were obvious errors due to inexperience, It happens. The house is still new, the whole concept of the house is new, They're doing everything on their own. They don't have another pro house to get tips from, They have to trial and error everything themselves. Mistakes are going to happen.
With that said, The contract was a bit confusing at first but they gave everyone in the house a full day to sit down together and point out what we didn't like and what we wanted to change. They were very receptive to our changes. Everything we weren't comfortable with they changed, and if we didn't understand something they clarified it. I had no problems with the contract after we all re-worked it. Players saying the NDA are keeping them from not saying anything isn't true. The NDA never said anything about not talking badly about MoW or talking about what happened within the house. They just want to make sure that we don't tell out company secrets to competitors since they were the first of this type of gaming house, It was just to cover themselves. It was all understood, It was to keep company secrets since everyone living in the house had exposure to how the entire house ran.
The food was an issue, At the time I was living there I thought we were eating quiet healthy, but at the same time it was only 9 people total to cook for. You have to realise that cooking for 12+ players and staff, It's hard to prepare fish and salads for every meal, and it's nearly impossible to have "perfect amount" of food. If they cook to much then they lose money from throwing it out, If they don't cook enough players complain. It's a really rough balance. Even when the meals weren't that big, We had access to pieces of bread with various spreads, bowls of cereal at any time of the day, and other left overs if there are any. Once again the project and house is still new so give them time to work out the kinks.
As for them owing Fuzer money, It does state that we are to pay for the entire month even if we leave half way through. They have to plan and buy/prepare for an entire month so to get a refund after they already spent the money planning on you living in the house, isn't really fair to ask for. It sucks Fuzer couldn't get a refund, especially since he didn't sign the contract yet, but at the same time MoW is a business and they have to plan around having the proper income to sustain the house. This was poorly handled all over, Mistakes were clearly made. Once again the project is new, I doubt they'll ever allow a player to move in before signing a contract.
Overall my time in MoW was fantastic. We had a very well set schedule as far as eating/practising. We would eat the same time every day, and practice the same time every day. Matiz was a amazing coach, He was very helpful to help find us new builds and then finding us players to practice it with. The practice was regulated, It was up to the players to make sure it was efficient. He was there for assistance, He asked on a daily basis if anyone wanted help, And he would go out of his way to make sure we were taken care of. Same with the work out schedule, Me snute and Cyto were the only players who used the gym while we lived there, We didn't need a work out schedule. If you want to work out do it, If not practice. They can't hold your hand for everything. Even in a korean team house, The coach does what he can to guide you and make sure you're on track with practice, but if you're not playing efficiently then it's your own fault.
So please lower your pitch forks. Once again the project is still new, Mistakes will be made and mistakes have been made. Was my entire experience perfect? No I had a few times of drama, but it was cleared up. Just try to see it from both sides, and remember this is still a business.
Thanks ~~LgNkarmy
What about the part where Fuzer wasnt allowed to show the contract to his lawyer?
He was aloud, It was stated they agreed to that but they wanted to see the lawyers license. They never got that and needed it to be signed. Like I said it should have been done before he moved it, but mistakes were made.
And then they forced him out not giving Fuzer time to get those papers? And why the fuck would they even require something like that.
As for them owing Fuzer money, It does state that we are to pay for the entire month even if we leave half way through.
But he didn't SIGN that contract. So it doesn't matter what it says. Therefore the situation would probably be considered a verbal contract. The reason for him leaving is because the contract was much different than he expected, not of his own accord.
MoW will have broken the verbal contract by changing conditions so he should get the money back because it wa s sent under different expectations (IANAL).
EPT
