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Drama in MoW house. - Page 105
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Stop derailing with living cost talk On September 13 2012 07:51 MinistryOfWin wrote: Press Release: http://www.ministryofwin.com/news/press-release-september-13th-2012 Stay tuned for the article on ESFIWORLD.com. - Wednesday, Sep 12 10:51pm GMT (GMT+00:00) On September 13 2012 08:02 MinistryOfWin wrote: http://esfiworld.com/news/ministry-win-respond-fuzers-claims - Wednesday, Sep 12 11:02pm GMT (GMT+00:00) | ||
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sage_francis
France1823 Posts
User was warned for this post | ||
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Mouzone
3937 Posts
On September 13 2012 22:20 TeeTS wrote: since MoW confirmed the questionable parts of the contract, they are worthy to be discussed... "Not allowed to join another team house for 10years" - serious? Should this be a slave contract? This is just a cheap way to bind players to the house and make them less attractive for teams with establish teamhouses to sign them. With the situation inside the house being poor in some regards it also prevents you from leaving in a very sneaky way. "5h/day streaming beside the cost of 600euro/month" - It seems MoW doesn't want to establish a training eviroment, but bait in highlevel players and squeeze the most money possible out of them. Overall it seems like MoW is a very dirty buisness that tries to make most money in a short amount of time by intimidating players with sneaky contracts to make sure they stay quiet and play along. This has nothing to do with esports and hopefully will lose support from the community as further things are exposed. If that 10 years thing is for real it can't possibly hold up, can it? I think most countries' law have something about unreasonable clauses, causing them to be effectively nullified. Because that is completely unreasonable and out of place. | ||
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TeveT
Sweden148 Posts
On September 13 2012 22:25 KadaverBB wrote: I guess fuzer got exactly what he wanted. I mean he called the stupid thread "drama in MoW house" instead of "misunderstanding in the MoW house" or "contract problems in the Mow house" or whatever. It's like he called it drama because he wanted to create more drama, bleh. A number of pros living in the house already commented that they are very happy with the house, it just can not be that bad of a place  Fuzer and MoW should just settle this in a reasonable manner, there is no need for a 100 page thread of "drama". Calling it "Drama in MoW house" is kind of neutral as opposed to what he could have called it. consider being in his shoes where you feel unjustingly treated and cheated of both money and time... I think calling it "drama" is quite nice of him... | ||
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TeeTS
Germany2762 Posts
On September 13 2012 22:31 Mouzone wrote: If that 10 years thing is for real it can't possibly hold up, can it? I think most countries' law have something about unreasonable clauses, causing them to be effectively nullified. Because that is completely unreasonable and out of place. Of course! But it intimidates the players who signed those kind of contracts and forces them into things they might not do without it. | ||
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DreamChaser
1649 Posts
On September 13 2012 21:48 marmuc wrote: I forgot to say that I didn't abide by the rules on my trip, but still want my money back. They want to give me my money back but I'd rather not take it but make a drama thread on tl.net instead, so everyone can hate. But didn't they show Fuzer the contract like a week after he had been living there. Isn't it normal business practice to sign or at least show them the contract before you accept them into some sort of binding agreement? | ||
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magnaflow
Canada1521 Posts
On September 13 2012 22:29 sage_francis wrote: Lol SC2.... So much drama, so much money, so much overhype, so much team changes.... and so few skill. You mean foreign SC2, this shit doesn't happen in Korea. The only thing that matters in Korea, and should matter everywhere else are results. | ||
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jakethesnake
Canada4948 Posts
On September 13 2012 21:55 qwaykee wrote: This thread represents everything that's wrong with the SC2 community I completely agree. I read Fuzer's and MoW's statements and thought - these guys need to work it out between the two of them and stop playing the game of public sympathy. This thread should have never existed because the two sides should have worked harder to come to a resolution, and if one was not readily available, then they should try to bring in a conciliator to help resolve the issue (which I think in this case would be overkill, but a necessary step before playing the PR game). Then it gets posted on TL and suddently everyone is an international contract law expert. TBH, I view this running to the public to resolve your dispute no different than I view the 'everyone contact the sponsors!' approach. If only the starcraft community didn't need fesh drama every few days to keep things interesting. Almost like we don't care about the game just about some e-pseudocelebrity culture. | ||
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shadymmj
1906 Posts
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mijagi182
Poland797 Posts
On September 13 2012 22:19 yeint wrote: I'm also pretty shocked by the amount of Polish people in this thread defending MoW to their last breath. Are you all personally involved with the MoW leadership, or is this some sort of national pride thing? Because to be perfectly blunt, it's having the opposite effect. If an Estonian organization pulled the same shit, I would most certainly not be defending them. No one assumes what MoW is doing has anything to do with the fact that they're from Poland, up until a horde of Poles descends on the thread to white knight for them. What a BS is this. I noticed maybe 2-3 Polish guys responding from time to time, and a few random comments... A SHOCKING HORDE INDEED!!!! And you have no idea how much shit MOW got on netwars.pl Ofc in Estonia, a shiny pearl of Eastern Europe considering Human Rights etc, not one man would defend Estonian organization. I see now that Wilko (btw guess hes not Polish!) explained you few things, you change your tactic but target remains the same - Poland!  | ||
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TeeTS
Germany2762 Posts
On September 13 2012 22:37 jakethesnake wrote: I completely agree. I read Fuzer's and MoW's statements and thought - these guys need to work it out between the two of them and stop playing the game of public sympathy. This thread should have never existed because the two sides should have worked harder to come to a resolution, and if one was not readily available, then they should try to bring in a conciliator to help resolve the issue (which I think in this case would be overkill, but a necessary step before playing the PR game). Then it gets posted on TL and suddently everyone is an international contract law expert. TBH, I view this running to the public to resolve your dispute no different than I view the 'everyone contact the sponsors!' approach. If only the starcraft community didn't need fesh drama every few days to keep things interesting. Almost like we don't care about the game just about some e-pseudocelebrity culture. bullshit! Fuzer alone as no (monetary) power to compete with MoW. So it's totally legitimate to use the power that he has - the community. Because the community has power because sponsors want their names out there in a positive manner. You saw it, didn't you? They never intended to give him his money back until he wanted to make it public. This is no issue betwenn to even parties, so the community has to step in here! | ||
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Doodsmack
United States7224 Posts
And no I'm not hypocritical for posting here, because someone has to do it so that newcomers to the thread see that ARE reasonable voices out there. | ||
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Hryul
Austria2609 Posts
I really don't like the 10 year clause and the "have to stream" (unless important tournament) clause. For me a honest move would have been to disclose the contract and put the cards on the table instead of trying to calm it down with essentially nothing but blubber. I mean it's not like they develop cruise missiles or otherwise top secret stuff. For me they seem to try to abuse the inexperience of younger progamers to gain the most profit for themself. | ||
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Maxtor
United Kingdom273 Posts
I've got a little bit of experience in drafting and I have never seen a contract for something seemingly so simple as this, that went for 15 pages, while being done completely in good faith. I thought the initial price to enter the house was a bit steep, but if there's a demand its only fair, but taking a cut from the streaming revenue and setting quotas seems really unfair, I expected something like this to happen, as many people did judging from the initial reactions when MoW opened but i was hoping to be proved wrong. | ||
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Mouzone
3937 Posts
On September 13 2012 22:37 jakethesnake wrote: I completely agree. I read Fuzer's and MoW's statements and thought - these guys need to work it out between the two of them and stop playing the game of public sympathy. This thread should have never existed because the two sides should have worked harder to come to a resolution, and if one was not readily available, then they should try to bring in a conciliator to help resolve the issue (which I think in this case would be overkill, but a necessary step before playing the PR game). Then it gets posted on TL and suddently everyone is an international contract law expert. TBH, I view this running to the public to resolve your dispute no different than I view the 'everyone contact the sponsors!' approach. If only the starcraft community didn't need fesh drama every few days to keep things interesting. Almost like we don't care about the game just about some e-pseudocelebrity culture. People like you are also a hazard to the scene. Flaws need to be revealed, they need to be brought to light so that the scene can move on, not be hidden so that the same thing keeps happening over and over. Let's say they'd "resolve" it privately, then more people would go to MoW thinking everything is just fine. We don't want that. | ||
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coolguy00
7 Posts
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Zdrastochye
Ivory Coast6262 Posts
On September 13 2012 22:47 Mouzone wrote: People like you are also a hazard to the scene. Flaws need to be revealed, they need to be brought to light so that the scene can move on, not be hidden so that the same thing keeps happening over and over. Let's say they'd "resolve" it privately, then more people would go to MoW thinking everything is just fine. We don't want that. Yup, controversy like this, as undeniably frustrating to those involved, gets certain wheels to start turning. If you won a tournament and the organizers are dragging their feet (or flat out refusing) to pay you for it, then why shouldn't you go to the public? I don't think it's ever acceptable to post about contacting sponsors, but it's something that the public has control over once a wrong is brought to light. I'm not saying it solves all problems, but I'm sure sponsors will be less inclined to give out money to just anyone - it increases the knowledge for all esports. Yes from time to time it'll deter a sponsor from ever delving into esports again, but as long as there's money to be made there will always be companies willing to cash in on it. | ||
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Cronusd
Finland19 Posts
On September 13 2012 21:43 marmuc wrote: I buy a month long trip, after 6 days I got bored, no fun from trip anymore, I want my money back, okay. You can't read can you? He was in the house for over a month you dumbfuck. User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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Zorkmid
4410 Posts
On September 13 2012 22:54 Zdrastochye wrote: Yup, controversy like this, as undeniably frustrating to those involved, gets certain wheels to start turning. If you won a tournament and the organizers are dragging their feet (or flat out refusing) to pay you for it, then why shouldn't you go to the public? I don't think it's ever acceptable to post about contacting sponsors, but it's something that the public has control over once a wrong is brought to light. I'm not saying it solves all problems, but I'm sure sponsors will be less inclined to give out money to just anyone - it increases the knowledge for all esports. Yes from time to time it'll deter a sponsor from ever delving into esports again, but as long as there's money to be made there will always be companies willing to cash in on it. Very true. The media is a great place to turn go for consumer advocacy, or to shine a light on public institutions that aren't getting the job done. In the case of eSports, where we really don't have a "media" outlet to turn to, the community is a reasonable facsimile. | ||
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jakethesnake
Canada4948 Posts
On September 13 2012 22:47 Mouzone wrote: People like you are also a hazard to the scene. Flaws need to be revealed, they need to be brought to light so that the scene can move on, not be hidden so that the same thing keeps happening over and over. Let's say they'd "resolve" it privately, then more people would go to MoW thinking everything is just fine. We don't want that. Hazard to the scene? lol. That's funny. You can't run a business if no one trust each other and everyone fears that at the first sign of trouble someone is going to run to the public without warning to embarass the other party. The only place that this happens regularly is in collective bargaining, and that is usually after consiliation/mediation has broken down and before the nuclear option of a strike/lock-out is serioulsy considered. It's a shame the SC2 community is conditioned to think this is the proper response to small disputes | ||
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tenacity
1587 Posts
On September 13 2012 23:00 jakethesnake wrote: Hazard to the scene? lol. That's funny. You can't run a business if no one trust each other and everyone fears that at the first sign of trouble someone is going to run to the public without warning to embarass the other party. The only place that this happens regularly is in collective bargaining, and that is usually after consiliation/mediation has broken down and before the nuclear option of a strike/lock-out is serioulsy considered. It's a shame the SC2 community is conditioned to think this is the proper response to small disputes Come on, get real. The management of the MoW house has done almost everything wrong in handling the situation. I don't care about Fuzer but the press release is a joke. | ||
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