EPTDrama in MoW house. - Page 106
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Stop derailing with living cost talk On September 13 2012 07:51 MinistryOfWin wrote: Press Release: http://www.ministryofwin.com/news/press-release-september-13th-2012 Stay tuned for the article on ESFIWORLD.com. - Wednesday, Sep 12 10:51pm GMT (GMT+00:00) On September 13 2012 08:02 MinistryOfWin wrote: http://esfiworld.com/news/ministry-win-respond-fuzers-claims - Wednesday, Sep 12 11:02pm GMT (GMT+00:00) | ||
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CamoPillbox
Czech Republic229 Posts
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Adellund
Denmark92 Posts
why can't people learn to read stuff and not just throw money around and say stupid shit? sorry for the very vulgar language, but this is a REALLY dumb situation which could've been avoided from BOTH parties, had they just thought things through... why risk like 600€ when you can just wait and get to the practice house later? if it really IS a good training environment, chances are that it won't close anytime soon and you can just wait a few months and get things sorted out... | ||
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jakethesnake
Canada4948 Posts
On September 13 2012 23:06 tenacity wrote: Come on, get real. The management of the MoW house has done almost everything wrong in handling the situation. I don't care about Fuzer but the press release is a joke. I never defended MoW and have no intention of doing so. | ||
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yeint
Estonia2329 Posts
On September 13 2012 22:42 mijagi182 wrote: What a BS is this. I noticed maybe 2-3 Polish guys responding from time to time, and a few random comments... A SHOCKING HORDE INDEED!!!! You're one of them. Irony? | ||
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winthrop
Hong Kong956 Posts
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Adellund
Denmark92 Posts
On September 13 2012 22:46 Hryul wrote: I guess fuzer was a bit naive moving in the house without reading the contract first but MoW shouldn't have allowed it in the first place. I really don't like the 10 year clause and the "have to stream" (unless important tournament) clause. For me a honest move would have been to disclose the contract and put the cards on the table instead of trying to calm it down with essentially nothing but blubber. I mean it's not like they develop cruise missiles or otherwise top secret stuff. For me they seem to try to abuse the inexperience of younger progamers to gain the most profit for themself. it's Poland, how can you exclude them developing nuclear weapons? *trollface* | ||
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tjosan
Sweden120 Posts
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dacimvrl
Vatican City State582 Posts
On September 13 2012 22:25 KadaverBB wrote: I guess fuzer got exactly what he wanted. I mean he called the stupid thread "drama in MoW house" instead of "misunderstanding in the MoW house" or "contract problems in the Mow house" or whatever. It's like he called it drama because he wanted to create more drama, bleh. A number of pros living in the house already commented that they are very happy with the house, it just can not be that bad of a place  Fuzer and MoW should just settle this in a reasonable manner, there is no need for a 100 page thread of "drama". except for pros and regular ppl received DIFFERENT contracts..FYI so yeh, DIFFERENT contracts mang, you know? DIFFERENT contracts. did I mention that Pros received DIFFERENT contracts? | ||
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Martijn
Netherlands1219 Posts
On September 13 2012 23:15 tjosan wrote: Did Fuzer get a copy of the contract for consideration at all? Because if he didn't I'd take that as an implicit admission of it being fucked up and MoW trying to scam him. I'd NEVER sign a contract the other part wouldn't agree to give me a copy off. Actually, is that even legal? >_< Part of the problem was that they wouldn't give him a copy so he could send it to his lawyer, so without knowing the specifics, I think it's safe to assume they wouldn't give him a copy. | ||
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Smancer
United States379 Posts
My take on this issue, which I believe both parties should really listen to, and hopefully they are reading this thread is that eSports regards contracts as an agreement entered into voluntarily by two parties or more with the intention of creating a legal obligation, which may have elements in writing. Again, eSports. | ||
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dacimvrl
Vatican City State582 Posts
On September 13 2012 23:10 Adellund wrote: I can't see the problem with the situation, Fuzer decided to pay in advance, knowing that he hadn't signed the contract, and now turned it to a farce for the MoW. why can't people learn to read stuff and not just throw money around and say stupid shit? sorry for the very vulgar language, but this is a REALLY dumb situation which could've been avoided from BOTH parties, had they just thought things through... why risk like 600€ when you can just wait and get to the practice house later? if it really IS a good training environment, chances are that it won't close anytime soon and you can just wait a few months and get things sorted out... It's not just that.. The problem here is Fuzer wanted to run the contract through his lawyer before signing it, which is smart, but MoW wouldn't let him. AHEM* Not to mention all the shady clauses in the contract. These aren't problems? | ||
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Cheerio
Ukraine3178 Posts
1) MoW failed to inform the player of the full costs of living in the house before he moved in (streaming revenues). 2) Demanding % of streaming is probably ok BUT MoW should have explained their rationale behind it. It wasn't done. 3) 10 years part is just hilarious. Totally unreasonable demand. As people have pointed out it might be even so unreasonable it is against the law. Basicly after this a normal reader figures out who are the bad guys here. 4) Demanding a player to send credentials of his lawyer is fail again. He is seeking advice from someone he trusts, why would MoW need his credentials? Smells like timewasting or just preventing the contract from leaking out (as it clearly is that bad). 5) The relationships between Boss and Fuzer were bad. It's clear from both sides (the 4 am part, and throwing money part). Looks like only one of them was in position of power, so he decided to use it to force the other one out. 6) Fuzer was right demanding legal counsel so forcing him out before he got it looks kind of cruel. 7) Refusing to pay the fair sum of money owned to Fuzer is another big fail. That is basicly robbing him of his money. Even after the things got rough and into the public MoW still owns those money to Fuzer. 8) Threatening with NDA and keeping his money when Fuzer mentions going public... that just stinks. TL got outraged? Sure thing it did. This is bad, like super bad. No wonder Fuzer decided against "peaceful resolution" after all of that, I would have done no less if I were him. What I expect from MoW: 1) Fire Boss. He is clearly the villain here. 2) Appologize to Fuzer. 3) Give him his money back. 4) Fix those stupid contracts for the god's sake. and maybe you can get out of it yet. | ||
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azalians
Poland3 Posts
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scypio
Poland2127 Posts
On September 13 2012 23:00 jakethesnake wrote: You can't run a business if no one trust each other and everyone fears that at the first sign of trouble someone is going to run to the public without warning to embarass the other party. The only place that this happens regularly is in collective bargaining, and that is usually after consiliation/mediation has broken down and before the nuclear option of a strike/lock-out is serioulsy considered. It's a shame the SC2 community is conditioned to think this is the proper response to small disputes If you run a business you need to have some clue what to do when things do not work out all that well. And that is what happened with Fuzer. He was disappointed with the living conditions in the house / had higher expectations than most of the guys that went there - it's perfectly fine. He is young and confused about 15-pages long contract and wants a friend/lawyer/whoever take a look at it - that's understandable. MoW is a professional organization that keeps him inside the house for over a month without written contract - well, that's the risk they took. The risk that Fuzer would not signed a contract that obliged him to pay for the whole month without the option of refund. Once this situation emerged MoW was the one expected to deal with it in a reasonable fashion. They didn't. Instead they used blackmailish tactics: "STFU or we will keep your money (based on the contract you did not sign)". This is a horrible, horrible solution to the situation at hand and I have no idea how come MoW guys do not see that. I bet there are a lot of issues in esports that don't get public and get sorted out in a more quiet fashion. But there is a question: where is your line in the sand? In my world MoW simple crossed that line with the "offer you cannot refuse" they gave to Fuzer. Apparently, Fuzer felt the same. My best guess is that there are more guys who would do the same, especially in the western Europe where 400 euros is not that much. MoW failed hard and it keeps failing, I hope that they will realize that at some point. | ||
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Lallis
Finland25 Posts
On September 13 2012 22:44 Doodsmack wrote: Guess putting the word drama into your thread title attracts the queens like moths to a flame lol. There is nothing more to be said in this thread, it's just the queens beating a dead horse now. You have no new insight or argument to offer, so just let it rest. Do you not care if the community becomes more known for drama than anything else. Maybe give some thought to the possibility that that reputation is caused by threads like this carrying on for way too long. And no I'm not hypocritical for posting here, because someone has to do it so that newcomers to the thread see that ARE reasonable voices out there. How blind do you have to be to say something like that? It's not like we were discussing about Destiny's relationship problem or his dick. We are discussing about the legitimacy of a business in the community which is a serious matter and not just another pointless drama. Thanks to all the pointless drama before people like you can't distinguish pointless drama from serious issues within the community anymore. | ||
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Aterons_toss
Romania1275 Posts
This is another case of retarded people coming into "esports", i always suspected mow was that kind of thing but if this is real its pretty much confirmation. People need to realize that the industry is supported 90% by sponsors revenue, its not like football where the sponsors get the right o produce T-shirts and shoes with the teams logo and player names, Its all about " I give you money you put my name on your shirt people see my name thus they are more inclined by their subconsciousness to buy my product". This means 2 things: you ether go dremahack or diginitas route where you don't pay much but you always stat afloat with a few good k of dollars, you might remain like that yes... but hey, you wanted to market your product to an audience that is composed of only 200 to 1000k people many of which are bellow 18 and most of which own very little money ( due to college or other reasons that keep them from having a job, even if they have a job most of them aren't likely earning enough to spend money on 5$ energy drinks and 500$ keyboards ) If you want to invest 1 million $ out of your own bloody pocket on a house and than try to make it "pay off" via shitty contracts than you are in the wrong place, you ether have that house in korea and host a team in it that accepts to play for a few bucks a month and a diet consisting of only rice or you have an EG-like house where everyone is WILLINGLY working together to make it pay off revenue wise. | ||
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dacimvrl
Vatican City State582 Posts
On September 13 2012 23:24 Lallis wrote: How blind do you have to be to say something like that? It's not like we were discussing about Destiny's relationship problem or his dick. We are discussing about the legitimacy of a business in the community which is a serious matter and not just another pointless drama. Thanks to all the pointless drama before people like you can't distinguish pointless drama from serious issues within the community anymore. I agree with you, this is totally a legitimate issue, not a witch hunt. It helps to inform people and raise awareness about how important those contracts..etc. are. It may also help both MoW and Fuzer grow, hopefully. Again, this isn't even remotely similar to the drama or w/e that has happened before. This Doodsmack guy is kind of full of himself, even calling himself the voice of reason.. laughable. | ||
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mijagi182
Poland797 Posts
I dont think im posting more here than you do (6-6 so far). Ok now 7th  | ||
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pallad
Poland1958 Posts
You wanna drama ? you have drama , MoW will have maby some problems with it , but fuzer pro gamer carrer is over. MoW is not perfect , but is not evil also . They offered him money back.. he dont take it..and he just killed his pro gamer carrer. | ||
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Lallis
Finland25 Posts
On September 13 2012 23:10 Adellund wrote: I can't see the problem with the situation, Fuzer decided to pay in advance, knowing that he hadn't signed the contract, and now turned it to a farce for the MoW. why can't people learn to read stuff and not just throw money around and say stupid shit? sorry for the very vulgar language, but this is a REALLY dumb situation which could've been avoided from BOTH parties, had they just thought things through... why risk like 600€ when you can just wait and get to the practice house later? if it really IS a good training environment, chances are that it won't close anytime soon and you can just wait a few months and get things sorted out... How can you assume Fuzer just can go there any time he likes? What if he actually has something to do such as for example studies next year? On September 13 2012 23:32 pallad wrote: Im so happy that Fuzer will not find any good pro team. None team will sign with player , that show private conversations , contracts etc. You wanna drama ? you have drama , MoW will have maby some problems with it , but fuzer pro gamer carrer is over. MoW is not perfect , but is not evil also . They offered him money back.. he dont take it..and he just killed his pro gamer carrer. Please... you melt my brain | ||
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