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On September 04 2012 05:36 ref4 wrote:
Artosis carries the Tastosis casting gig, without him Tastless is helpless. Wolf on the other hand, has shown that he is quite capable of casting alone, he has great insight into the game and can be quite hilarious at times, thus I think Wolf >> Tastless, get your facts straight OP.
subtle Wolf bash thread is subtle.
And oh yeah don't ever put HD and "caster" together in the same thread/post/sentence please.
If anything casters NEED to stop prematurely saying GG's just focus on what is going on in the game, make it exciting, I hate, hate "so, um, gas going down here..."
You must have never seen tasteless and his GOM videos...
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On September 04 2012 07:02 catplanetcatplanet wrote:
no jp? D:
He doesn't cast anymore.
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First and foremost, casting is a form of public speaking. Whether you're in a studio broadcasting to an online audience or sitting in front of a crowd, it's your job to convey to that audience what's going on and moreover, to do it in a way that generates excitement and interest. This means being aware of pitch, inflection, tone, and of course having a voice that's nice or at least inoffensive to listen to. Second and nearly as important is game knowledge. What do analysts of most pro sports have in common? They're usually retired players. They've played the game at a high level themselves, often for many years, and they know what they're seeing when they see it, even if the casual viewer does not. A lot of our prominent casters have the speaking skills but lack the knowledge. They need to play more, preferably with all races, keep up to date with metagame trends, and ralk to pro players when possible to bolster their knowledge.
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Husky/HD should not be in the same group.
HD clearly hasn't been working on his casting as much as Husky has, and Husky is one of the best play by play casters, and even though i call him a play by play caster he actually has a lot of knowledge about the game.
HD doesn't know much about the game anymore, and he always talks about outdated shit. He also sucks a lot at the introduction and just rambles off about something random.
Sorry if this kind of sounds like a hate post, but I really do believe everything that's written here...
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no appolo, kaelaris nor orb, outdated impressions of the casters.
day9 is nothing like tastosis, when he cast he is mostly play by play which is a shame because he is really good at analysing (before he got famous.)
Artosis is carrying tasteless but tasteless still has great moments.
For me, insight and passion are the best combo but i don't like when casters try to overhype things.
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What I really dislike about casters is that they sometimes pretend that a game isn´t over when it´s obvious that one player is going to win for sure. I´m not talking about situations where it might be possible to come back but there are situations where it´s basically impossible to win for a player unless his opponent wants to lose on purpose.(For example in ZvP when the Zerg has 5 bases, 200/200 Broodlord/Infestor army and his Protoss enemy has 50 supply and no mining and just a few Stalkers. I know that´s very specific but you get the idea.)
Some people say it´s disrespectful towards the players but I have to disagree here because the caster is just stating facts. Just look at soccer commentators, let´s say team A leads 10-0 versus Team B and there´s only one minute left to play. No one would say that Team B might have a chance to win because it´s almost physically impossible. The same thing applies to Starcraft as well, there´s a point when a game is clearly over and it´s obvious who´s gonna win. There´s no need to tell something else in these situations.
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On September 04 2012 05:04 Dosey wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 04:46 thatsundowner wrote:On September 04 2012 03:14 Dosey wrote:
It's a shame that there's no real threat of competition for the current casters. The up and comers have even less knowledge than the current top dogs and the pros most likely don't want to abandon their dream just yet. If we had even just a little competition from the pros, we just might see their complacent attitudes disappear as they worked harder to put out better casting and maintain their jobs. after reading this thread or any other thread about casting can you really be surprised at the lack of competition? progamer or otherwise, who wants to get into casting when all you'll get is people pouring over your every statement just waiting for you to say something wrong so they can shit on you? You talk as if this is different in the pro scene?
i didn't say it doesn't happen, but i think casters often get way more shit than players do, outside of a few examples. at least in my experience, anyway.
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On September 04 2012 09:29 thatsundowner wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 05:04 Dosey wrote:On September 04 2012 04:46 thatsundowner wrote:On September 04 2012 03:14 Dosey wrote:
It's a shame that there's no real threat of competition for the current casters. The up and comers have even less knowledge than the current top dogs and the pros most likely don't want to abandon their dream just yet. If we had even just a little competition from the pros, we just might see their complacent attitudes disappear as they worked harder to put out better casting and maintain their jobs. after reading this thread or any other thread about casting can you really be surprised at the lack of competition? progamer or otherwise, who wants to get into casting when all you'll get is people pouring over your every statement just waiting for you to say something wrong so they can shit on you? You talk as if this is different in the pro scene? i didn't say it doesn't happen, but i think casters often get way more shit than players do, outside of a few examples. at least in my experience, anyway.
This is also because you cant get into a major tournament without qualifying/being generally competent at the game. There have been grossly unqualified casters who are simply picked up because they applied.
Furthermore, the most direct form of 'shit' players get for poor play is elimination/no winnings. Casters have audience feedback instead of a direct opponent.
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On September 04 2012 07:51 Wayne123 wrote:
What I really dislike about casters is that they sometimes pretend that a game isn´t over when it´s obvious that one player is going to win for sure. I´m not talking about situations where it might be possible to come back but there are situations where it´s basically impossible to win for a player unless his opponent wants to lose on purpose.(For example in ZvP when the Zerg has 5 bases, 200/200 Broodlord/Infestor army and his Protoss enemy has 50 supply and no mining and just a few Stalkers. I know that´s very specific but you get the idea.)
Some people say it´s disrespectful towards the players but I have to disagree here because the caster is just stating facts. Just look at soccer commentators, let´s say team A leads 10-0 versus Team B and there´s only one minute left to play. No one would say that Team B might have a chance to win because it´s almost physically impossible. The same thing applies to Starcraft as well, there´s a point when a game is clearly over and it´s obvious who´s gonna win. There´s no need to tell something else in these situations.
I feel the proper way for casters to address such a situation is to mention the clearly-about to lose player's mindset when that player is faced with that situation. It seems more appropriate to discuss how a player might be trying to recollect his thoughts or figure what went wrong in the game and how it can be fixed in the next game than for a caster to attempt to instill needless drama in a game that is decidedly over.
If you consider the nature of a Starcraft game, the players themselves have the right to gg or surrender from a match, while a game like soccer, there is a game clock which ends the game by itself. Obviously Starcraft still has the ability to end the game through the actual mechanics of the game when a player completely destroys all of the opposing players, but such scenarios are rare and when a player is not gg-ing from a game where he is clearly going to be defeated, casters should attempt to enlighten viewers about why he would do such a thing instead of just leaving the game. A player might not be aware of the situation he's in yet to the viewers it is obvious that he is going to lose.
To sum it up, in such situations mentioned in the quote, casters should talk about:
-losing player's mentality
-ways for losing player to remedy the problem he is currently facing
-player's awareness of the situation he is in
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I think insight in casters are the most important. At a DreamHack event where Thorzain played right before he joined EG, DeMusliM was awhere of his style of play and casted the game with audio only on his own stream. That was the best casting i've ever heard, it was so interesting and made it so much more enjoyable to watch.
I think that it's really hard to have the same insight for a player as demuslim had for thorzain at that moment but I still find it alot more valueable than casters who just focuses on fights. For a long time I have not watched that many tournaments, Im more trying to watch streams of good people or get their replays.
For those who agree with me should watch DeMusliM, viOlet, Spanishiwa, Snute for example.
PsyStarcraft was a really good caster on his youtube channel a while ago. He was by far my favorite caster. If anyone wants to get into casting you should analys his casting and take away all the bad words that he uses.
Pandii - Rets girlfriend seems to be really good aswell. I saw her at a MoW tournament. It seems like she got alot of insight and enjoys the game alot so it's always nice to hear.
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Calgary25993 Posts
I'd guess not reading these threads would be key. The problem is you're trying to write a list for "What's the best colour?" and getting 9000 different replies with everyone explaining what they like best. That isn't helpful. Unless there are real metrics judging what people to react positively to, then you just end up with another useless thread.
Edit: What's worse is "Well in this event I liked red but I usually like blue." or "sometimes colours do this thing at the end of the game where they get dull and I really don't like that."
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This thread was actually made to bash Wolf and otherwise serve as a platform for the OP's biased opinions, right? :/
These threads are silly because noone will ever agree, and people either passionately love or hate a specific caster. Truth is that there are a million small things that make casters different, not just huge overarching general ideas such as insight or charisma, at least so it seems to me. I think if you talk about casters, there's only one thing to say, although it may seem like a lazy idiom to some: "There's no accounting for taste." I find that this is largely true when it comes to which casters people like, and which players people root for.
Issues can only be found if a majority of people dislike a specific caster I think, but that's only really the case with Moletrap and perhaps a large amount of lesser known casters who are lesser known for a reason.
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On September 05 2012 00:18 Kasaraki wrote:
This thread was actually made to bash Wolf and otherwise serve as a platform for the OP's biased opinions, right? :/
These threads are silly because noone will ever agree, and people either passionately love or hate a specific caster. Truth is that there are a million small things that make casters different, not just huge overarching general ideas such as insight or charisma, at least so it seems to me. I think if you talk about casters, there's only one thing to say, although it may seem like a lazy idiom to some: "There's no accounting for taste." I find that this is largely true when it comes to which casters people like, and which players people root for.
Issues can only be found if a majority of people dislike a specific caster I think, but that's only really the case with Moletrap and perhaps a large amount of lesser known casters who are lesser known for a reason.
Saying that the majority of people dislike Moletrap is at best a completely made up number yanked from thine own ass.
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On September 05 2012 00:37 Zorkmid wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 00:18 Kasaraki wrote:
This thread was actually made to bash Wolf and otherwise serve as a platform for the OP's biased opinions, right? :/
These threads are silly because noone will ever agree, and people either passionately love or hate a specific caster. Truth is that there are a million small things that make casters different, not just huge overarching general ideas such as insight or charisma, at least so it seems to me. I think if you talk about casters, there's only one thing to say, although it may seem like a lazy idiom to some: "There's no accounting for taste." I find that this is largely true when it comes to which casters people like, and which players people root for.
Issues can only be found if a majority of people dislike a specific caster I think, but that's only really the case with Moletrap and perhaps a large amount of lesser known casters who are lesser known for a reason.
Saying that the majority of people dislike Moletrap is at best a completely made up number yanked from thine own ass.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=364365
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On September 04 2012 06:51 sharkie wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 05:36 ref4 wrote:
Artosis carries the Tastosis casting gig, without him Tastless is helpless. Wolf on the other hand, has shown that he is quite capable of casting alone, he has great insight into the game and can be quite hilarious at times, thus I think Wolf >> Tastless, get your facts straight OP.
subtle Wolf bash thread is subtle.
And oh yeah don't ever put HD and "caster" together in the same thread/post/sentence please.
If anything casters NEED to stop prematurely saying GG's just focus on what is going on in the game, make it exciting, I hate, hate "so, um, gas going down here..." You must have never seen tasteless and his GOM videos...
Nick did fine on his own. Keep in mind that was a long time ago, sure they still have feeds of him covering the KeSPA matches too with that other guy as well, but you always have to be flexing your muscles in order to keep up. In casting it's no different when you want to drop the knowledge bombs. That's why you see guys like Apollo doing so well. He's actively playing the game at the same time for awarenesss.
For guys who want to go into stats and heavy analysis to explain what the viewers see. It's mandatory to keep up with the game.
Oh yeah as for the premature, "Oh well this game is done." Couldn't agree more, I don't know why the West has adopted to this kind of system, but I guess it goes back to us being far more blunt than the Korean casting teams as well.
Instead of building up to crescendo we get it over with right away.
On September 05 2012 00:07 Chill wrote:
I'd guess not reading these threads would be key. The problem is you're trying to write a list for "What's the best colour?" and getting 9000 different replies with everyone explaining what they like best. That isn't helpful. Unless there are real metrics judging what people to react positively to, then you just end up with another useless thread.
Edit: What's worse is "Well in this event I liked red but I usually like blue." or "sometimes colours do this thing at the end of the game where they get dull and I really don't like that."
Couldn't have said it better myself.
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I feel im in the minority, but i currently feel like casters right now analyze things TOO much. I mostly watch games of the race i play, so when a caster anaylzes things, they're just reiterating what I already know. Sometimes Artosis does his job TOO well, which is kind of a ridiculous thing to say, but sometimes he'll call a BO win within the first 3 minutes of the game, and sure enough that's what ends up happening. It just sucks the excitement out of it. However, don't get me wrong; Artosis is amazing. That's just a personal nitpick of mine.
So i guess charisma is most important. Wolf/khaldor is probably my favorite duo right now. They make games so exciting, and they really make you wanna take a build you just saw and try it for yourself.
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Well one thing is for sure.
I hate the Khaldor and Wolf combo.
Both their voices are annoying.
I can handle when Khaldor is casting with someone else and Wolf is casting with someone else.
But I cant stand the 2 of them togeather, their annoying voices combined make me want to kill myself.
I also dont think they are the best pair you can make.
I think knowing the meta game is probabbly the best you can do.
Next I would say is Play by Play and then its carisma.
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On September 05 2012 00:07 Chill wrote:
I'd guess not reading these threads would be key. The problem is you're trying to write a list for "What's the best colour?" and getting 9000 different replies with everyone explaining what they like best. That isn't helpful. Unless there are real metrics judging what people to react positively to, then you just end up with another useless thread.
Edit: What's worse is "Well in this event I liked red but I usually like blue." or "sometimes colours do this thing at the end of the game where they get dull and I really don't like that."
The real problems is that he (the op) tries to use faulty logic to justify his motivation
One example would be using "not producing independent content for the community" as a criterion of exclusion for being a "community guy" in Wolf's case, and claiming that Tasteless is a "community guy" even though the same criterion would apply to him as well. That is as clean a contradiction as you can get.
In my opinion, there is a misconception in the whole "ideal caster" debate.
People seem to think that only play-by-play casters are exciting and that being analytical means that you go into a hardcore analysis which will bore the majority of the viewers who are not die-hard fans (plus vice versa obviously), while there is nothing that speaks against having both.
tl;dr: my ideal caster is someone whose train of thoughts are interesting to follow (e.g. the players at hsc) and whose articulation is exciting to follow (e.g. tb),
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EPT
