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Chimpalimp
United States1135 Posts
ex: SC2: The unit/production/income tabs. Dota 2: The exp/gold graphs If you need the graph to tell you what is going on then you are doing nothing for me as a caster, you are literally just restating the obvious. Since most casters are now just shoutcasters, instead of analysts, they overuse the living hell out of statistical tools instead of just breaking down the game. | ||
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emythrel
United Kingdom2599 Posts
On September 03 2012 17:31 Dagan159 wrote: TT1. Yes, for you perhaps the most high level analysis possible is preferable, but if you want to grow esports then you are going to have to accept what the republican party has begun to realize: we need to grow the middle class. and TT1 wants to grow sc2 in the same way the republicans want to grow the middle class..... fuck the noobs/poor and let the rich/best have anything they want ;p | ||
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Trizz
Netherlands1323 Posts
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TotalBiscuit
United Kingdom5437 Posts
On September 04 2012 00:37 Dontkillme wrote: I seriously don't like threads like this. It feels like we are judging these casters while we get free commentary. No wonder tasteless doesn't come on TL. Too judgmental. The community seriously needs to stop being so judgmental about the casters who were hired by people smarter than us and need to let these casters breathe Oh don't worry, we absolutely love being constantly shit on, even accused of "killing esports". We especially enjoy it after coming off a 16 hour cast, so everyone make sure to post that stuff then! o_o | ||
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Dosey
United States4505 Posts
On September 03 2012 17:13 Liquid`Ret wrote: I have been watching starcraft and starcraft 2 for an extremely long time and I almost feel like the casting is getting worse and worse across the board. There are a few exceptions like Apollo, Rotterdam/MrBitter, Artosis (although he was much better a year ago) but with the other ones you can tell they almost never play the game anymore or never have played to begin with. Starcraft is a beautiful game. There is a very large group of players who have great mechanics and practice a lot, so their builds are very polished and they can all beat each other on any given day. Still some players do better than others, there is a huge mental aspect to the game and slight changes in builds or playstyles that can make all the difference and this is what makes starcraft matches so fun to watch. . Unfortunately, most casters are not very good at all at recognizing patterns or changes in the metagame, or builds. Infact there are so many occasions where casters who are newbies at the game, judge players and berate them for their mistakes, while they actually don't have a clue what is going on. Of course mistakes are much easier to point out than those little things players change in their play or the mind games that are going on at the top level. But these are the things that make starcraft a brilliant game to watch and follow. I feel like if we had professional casters who actually put the time and effort into delivering the best performance possible, the audience would come much closer to be able to experience starcraft in the same way that progamers experience it. With all the little nuances, mind games, and reasons why someone is doing what they're doing being analyzed and clearly explained. When I listen to a cast and would be unable to see the screen, I would feel like sc2 is a random slugfest with 2 guys just throwing units at each other. Every game feels the same, and one guy wins at the end. This actually makes Starcraft much less appealing to new people or people who are actually looking for depth, not cheap entertainment. Of course this is exaggerated, but it's still sad to me that there is so little actual skill and knowledge amongst casters. I really hope that eventually (sooner the better) we can go to a model where there is one person doing play by plays and coloring the cast, and one progamer or ex-progamer (who still keeps up his skill and knowledge of all the recent trends) doing analytical casting. We saw some of this when Grubby was casting with apollo/kalearis and TLO/apollo at assembly (and these guys have barely practiced casting). The current casters are actually not helping Starcraft 2 grow in my opinion, they just live off their initial fame and because of how e-sports works twitter followers and popularity is more important than quality, substance. I believe Starcraft 2 is a good enough game to keep people interested, as long as the skill on the screen is translated and well delivered to the audience. p.s sorry kinda off-topic, but felt like writing my opinion It's a shame that there's no real threat of competition for the current casters. The up and comers have even less knowledge than the current top dogs and the pros most likely don't want to abandon their dream just yet. If we had even just a little competition from the pros, we just might see their complacent attitudes disappear as they worked harder to put out better casting and maintain their jobs. | ||
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K3Nyy
United States1961 Posts
Play by play casters are good for the newbies I guess, but in order for the game to become more popular, we need more in-depth casters that show the audience more of what's going on in the game besides what they on the surface. Day9, Artosis, Apollo and Bitterdam immediately jump to mind as well as the players that casted at HSC. | ||
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Landriss
France10 Posts
On September 04 2012 03:16 K3Nyy wrote: What makes a good caster is their knowledge and insight of the game as well as their passion for the game in my opinion. This is why I feel like progamers always make the best casters. Play by play casters are good for the newbies I guess, but in order for the game to become more popular, we need more in-depth casters that show the audience more of what's going on in the game besides what they on the surface. Day9, Artosis, Apollo and Bitterdam immediately jump to mind as well as the players that casted at HSC. So you're saying that in order for Starcraft 2 to become more popular, we need casters that adress the needs of people ALREADY watching the game ? How does that make the game more popular ? Also, sorry but, although it is fun to see players cast once in a while, most of them can't afford to take the time to do it outside of a tournament like HSC. And let's be honest, it's fun but if you take away MaNA (does cast well but speak a bit too fast in my opinion), IdrA (who has a bit of a casting experience with EG) TLO and Ret (not quite there yet but their casting is improving TLO was cool at ASUS ROG), the players we saw casting at HSCV were really boring. They did say some interesting things, but there was no intensity in the games and it just wasn't fun in the long run. (Tarson casting is cool but would you pick him to cast a whole tournament?) | ||
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stew_
Canada239 Posts
On September 04 2012 03:14 Dosey wrote: It's a shame that there's no real threat of competition for the current casters. The up and comers have even less knowledge than the current top dogs and the pros most likely don't want to abandon their dream just yet. If we had even just a little competition from the pros, we just might see their complacent attitudes disappear as they worked harder to put out better casting and maintain their jobs. There is actually, the korean casters do a fantastic job of really high level analysis during games... especially during gsl and proleague/osl. | ||
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Kasu
United Kingdom345 Posts
Its also why I am a huuuge fan of Grubby's casting - not only does he have great insight but he is really articulate. | ||
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Sirrush
Netherlands165 Posts
I absolutely love high level analysis. Listening to pros explain why someone is doing x or building y, I love that. I love finding out the reason why they do things the way they do. That is sorely lacking, too. I mean yes, you have the likes of Apollo and Artosis who are probably most up to speed on the meta, but usually I don't feel like they grasp the subtleties either. | ||
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empty.bottle
685 Posts
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virpi
Germany3599 Posts
I don't want to be rude and I also respect people like DjWheat for what they're doing for e-sports in general, but I think that the whole scene would benefit from less "wohooo nice fungal / forcefield / guardian shield" (yes, I've actually heard casters scream "nice guardian shield"). Less shouting, more analysis. Less self-promoting, more focus on what the players are doing. But it's also important that the community allows new casters to enter the scenery. Personally, I'm very happy, when I see a new face casting: the more competition, the better. It's also very cool to see that Khaldor is getting more and more knowledgable, his casting has improved a lot during the last few months. On the other hand, I've got the feeling that Day9's casting has seen better days, but maybe that's just my personal impression. On the last few occasions I've listened to him, his whole performance was full of redundancies, though. I know that some people are saying that analytical casting might scare away noobs, but let's be honest: Someone talking about nice guardian shields won't really help a noob understanding the game. New players are overwhelmed by the information they see on the screen anyway, so they automatically are focusing on the obvious things: Who's got the bigger army? Who's got more bases? Who's got more workers? I think that people are intelligent enough to figure out the elemental aspects of the game by themselves. A good analytical (yet passionate) caster can help them on their journey to finally get a grasp on the machinery behind the obvious information. | ||
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Kuni
Austria765 Posts
There's a reason Homestory cup is so awesome, because the pros comments give insight in the game, where all those lame ass "OOOOOOOHHHHHHH, AAAAAAAAHHHHHH WOWOOOOOOOOOOOOAAAHAHHHHHHHHH" casters, who think screaming louder means doing a better job just fail. | ||
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JazzJackrabbit
Canada1272 Posts
In a way, it's another element of casting that I think is important which is being flexible with other casters and not only being comfortable with the person you regularly cast with. Tastosis is great but Artosis is able to cast well when he's with someone else too. | ||
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CCa1ss1e
Canada3231 Posts
I do think that Insight (meta-game) is important.. I guess I'm just used to the current pool of casters and have come to enjoy them. XD | ||
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Dosey
United States4505 Posts
On September 04 2012 03:34 stew_ wrote: There is actually, the korean casters do a fantastic job of really high level analysis during games... especially during gsl and proleague/osl. Sense, you do not make. | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
Analytical Casters- e.g Apollo, Artosis... Play-by-play Casters- e.g Husky, TotalBiscuit... Of course some casters do not entirely fit in either category, and others can play both roles (e.g Day[9]). To be successful as an analytical caster a person needs to have: >an extremely in depth knowledge of the current metagame >the ability to read the different builds that the players are going and predicting the game (using the knowledge of the metagame) >the ability to explain why the players are doing what they are doing, and to be able to point out the blunders that the players are making A play-by-play caster however needs: >the ability to concisely describe the situation (which can especially help newer viewers) >the ability to hype up the game >fill up the slower moments of the game (opening moments, or moments with no agression) by providing information about the players, or the map, or strong build orders Progamers can amply fulfill the "analytical caster" requirements, due to their knowledge of the metagame, and can help raise the level of casting. The biggest hurdle for pros, is diction, as pros sometimes struggle to explain exactly why and how something would happen. Also pros are excellent at mini-map watching, which, as casters, would help the observing of the game(multi-pronged drops etc). The play-by-play caster doesn't necessarily need as much knowledge of the game, but needs to master diction to the highest degree. | ||
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StaplerPhone
United States813 Posts
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Gosi
Sweden9072 Posts
You don't see casters in other sports or in many other games for that matter sitting there explaining how the game works. That is something you look up yourself. | ||
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BuddhaMonk
781 Posts
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