EPTAlthough I do believe there are a lot of Americans that only watch GSL and MLG. They might have the same opinion as the op about casters.
What is key to being a Good Caster - Page 7
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Champloo
Germany1850 Posts
Although I do believe there are a lot of Americans that only watch GSL and MLG. They might have the same opinion as the op about casters. | ||
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Equity213
Canada873 Posts
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xeqwist
55 Posts
Which is fine to be honest, for me personally apollo does the job better than anyone else and thats just how it goes. A lot of people probably doesn't agree with that. That doesn't mean I'm wrong, It doesn't mean that they are wrong, we just have different perspectives. But what It seems to me that you are doing is that your trying to spread your perspective as the 'correct' one and try to generalize our opinions, which for the record can not and should not be done. tl;dr: We all have different opinions, face it. | ||
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Incomplet
United Kingdom1419 Posts
1) They ask questions to their co-caster. I love it when they do this because not only are the learning themselves, but they are usually asking the same questions which many spectators may be wondering. For example: "Artosis, what do you think Mana is going to do with this build he is doing?" 2) They apologize if they make incorrect decisions. Nothing looks worse than a caster making a call, and the game swings the complete opposite direction. A small apology and recognition of one's mistakes goes a long way. 3) No pre-emptive GG's. This is so anti-climatic it just ruins the game for spectators. Sure there are plenty of situations when the spectators know when its pretty much over, but there are plenty of other things they can say which make it less dull, as well as more climatic if somehow a comeback is made. For example: "Wolf, Nestea is in a really rough position, what can he do to swing back into this game?" 4) Don't refer to players according to their race. The players have aliases and this separates them from everyone else who plays the same race. It sounds horrible when they say something like "The Terran does not have siege upgrade". 5) Lastly the casters need to act like friends, not co-workers. We love it when they occasionally poke fun at each other and make us laugh This creates a sense of synergy and charm to the cast, ultimately making it a lot more enjoyable to watch. This is why Tastosis is so popular, and the fact that they actually are best friends IRL (according to Tastosis interview with JP), is probably a huge factor. | ||
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shizaep
Canada2920 Posts
IMO, an intelligent person explaining why a certain build is good and what a player's options are gets me excited way more about a match that any kind of play-by-play. I can see the fucking supply tab and I see the armies on the screen and I don't need someone telling me that, "oooh, player A is building roaches!! omg!!" It's good to hype up a battle, but it's the analysis, the insight, the explanations and the predictions that make me appreciate the cast and really get pleasure out of spectating. EDIT: However, sometimes when I am tired, I'll watch a Husky cast. It lacks analysis for me and I don't enjoy it as much as a Tastosis but Husky is a decent enough guy that he makes it fairly enjoyable. In the end, I am mostly focusing on the players, on what is going on-screen and Husky just breaks the silence, and creates a decent atmosphere. | ||
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lannisport
878 Posts
I've given up on analytic casters. The best play by play casters are totalbiscuit and Husky (Who are necessary imo to hype up the crowd because there is a lack of explaining the strategic happenings thats going on, the result being a bored audience). The best casters are the ones from homestory cup. That's the only time I go "OHhhh shit! THAT'S why you do that! That's what you're trying to do! That's so smart!" Maybe with the elephants coming we'll get an influx of amazing casters  | ||
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
Wow. What about Voice for one? ._. | ||
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iLevitate
United States225 Posts
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myth_au
Australia39 Posts
In respect of why i say DJ Wheat and TB are new to SC2 i mean as in they werent involved in SC:BW. For example i remember a dual cast between DJ Wheat and Day9 where he says "i love destrucble rocks" or something. I found it funny. Similar to TB. I mean nothing it. I just mean they are new to esports (SC:BW and SC2 generally). Hopefully that makes sense. In respect to me being bias in the OP, well i did say it was my opinion. My comments about Wolf is purely my opinion. I still subscribe and watch GSL and GOM generally even if Wolf casts because i like the players and i can watch the stream and make my own judgment (mostly i mute them and have my own music playing). Yes i missed out a number of other casters, dAppollo, Gretorp, Frodan, Catz (IPL Caster not the player!), etc etc. There are indeed alot of casters. I must say i wanted to write about dAppollo because he is so cool but i ran out of time ><. If i was to say something about dApollo. I twould be that he is without a doubt passionate, insightful and very charismatic. Just look at the most recent MLG! But yes. I am sorry if i missed out alot of other casters (eg especially community casters), i just wanted to get the main casters i see at major tournaments (GSL, OSL, MLG, NASL). I mean no disrespect but leaving you out. In respect of why i put additional content as an key issue is because sometimes people can overlook other issues if their contribution in other ways is valuable (eg HotBid albiet for TL, lots of interviews etc). So sometimes even though their castign is sub-quality (if you can call it that), the fact that i know they do great work else where means its okay. It is sort of like your work responsibility. Just because you do one thing bad and you do the rest doesnt mean you do a bad job overall. | ||
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Hall0wed
United States8486 Posts
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ChiknAdobo
United States208 Posts
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saynomore
Norway149 Posts
All the GOM casters are miles ahead of everyone else except for Apollo. | ||
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randoomguy
Sweden82 Posts
On September 03 2012 17:13 Liquid`Ret wrote: I have been watching starcraft and starcraft 2 for an extremely long time and I almost feel like the casting is getting worse and worse across the board. There are a few exceptions like Apollo, Rotterdam/MrBitter, Artosis (although he was much better a year ago) but with the other ones you can tell they almost never play the game anymore or never have played to begin with. Starcraft is a beautiful game. There is a very large group of players who have great mechanics and practice a lot, so their builds are very polished and they can all beat each other on any given day. Still some players do better than others, there is a huge mental aspect to the game and slight changes in builds or playstyles that can make all the difference and this is what makes starcraft matches so fun to watch. . Unfortunately, most casters are not very good at all at recognizing patterns or changes in the metagame, or builds. Infact there are so many occasions where casters who are newbies at the game, judge players and berate them for their mistakes, while they actually don't have a clue what is going on. Of course mistakes are much easier to point out than those little things players change in their play or the mind games that are going on at the top level. But these are the things that make starcraft a brilliant game to watch and follow. I feel like if we had professional casters who actually put the time and effort into delivering the best performance possible, the audience would come much closer to be able to experience starcraft in the same way that progamers experience it. With all the little nuances, mind games, and reasons why someone is doing what they're doing being analyzed and clearly explained. When I listen to a cast and would be unable to see the screen, I would feel like sc2 is a random slugfest with 2 guys just throwing units at each other. Every game feels the same, and one guy wins at the end. This actually makes Starcraft much less appealing to new people or people who are actually looking for depth, not cheap entertainment. Of course this is exaggerated, but it's still sad to me that there is so little actual skill and knowledge amongst casters. I really hope that eventually (sooner the better) we can go to a model where there is one person doing play by plays and coloring the cast, and one progamer or ex-progamer (who still keeps up his skill and knowledge of all the recent trends) doing analytical casting. We saw some of this when Grubby was casting with apollo/kalearis and TLO/apollo at assembly (and these guys have barely practiced casting). The current casters are actually not helping Starcraft 2 grow in my opinion, they just live off their initial fame and because of how e-sports works twitter followers and popularity is more important than quality, substance. I believe Starcraft 2 is a good enough game to keep people interested, as long as the skill on the screen is translated and well delivered to the audience. p.s sorry kinda off-topic, but felt like writing my opinion hm,i am kinda thinking XD,i do agree with some part but something i feel like u players doesn't understand is that an exciting caster needs to be there even the analytical one needs some amount of charisma,when i watch the HSC(i actually why aren't u guys trying to show of yourselfs a little bit more there as u have a spectaculare opporunity to show how'a beautifull cast'could look like)i literally can't stand when some of u guys cast just because u sound incredible boring(don't get excited at all and under the whole cast just talk in one tone and no really 'power'behind it),u call games fast,and u have no synergy with your other casters,it sounds more like u are asking each other about opinions than rather sounding confident in what u think is 'right'which is suprising considering u guys should know most about what is happening in the game.... but anyways i just want to say that exciting casters is a must since they are the ones getting in viewers,u can't expect people with families and jobs to just spend hours on a game to learn about it,and weather u like it or not,thats how it is for most.over 50%are gold or lower,they won't get whats happening if u put two pros together and talk about hardcore analysis,ofc i think casters have alot to improve on but cmon the game is only 2 years old,and not only the casters but the players have alot to improve on,we still see alot of boring games and mistakes,doesn't mean we will always see them  everything of this is just my own opinion though | ||
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Jinkku
Finland36 Posts
Apollo, along with Artosis by far the most knowleadgeable of current full-time casters. Can't believe how underrated the guy still is after all the great work he has done. Also claiming that Wolf&Khaldor do not know they're way around the builds and meta is kinda ridiculous and just plain wrong in my opinion. Granted they talk alot about useless stuff (like Wolf obsessing about hair styles and what not), but most of the time they are spot on with their play-by-play and analysis. Also the pair always seem to know the players and have interesting tidbits to give about their backrounds, this in my opinion make them perfect code A and GSTL casters, where we have a lot more unknown or not star status players. Moletrap on the other hand doesn't know starcraft, he misses so much stuff, even things that have nothing to do with "meta-game", things that are so obvious even complete beginners might spot them. When he was a Code A caster I always used to just not watch when it was his turn to cast. In my opinion he just simply doesn't have what it takes to be a great caster. Sorry. To make this post not just about who is best and what not, my requirements for good casting are: -Knowledge, I want the caster to tell me things that I do not nessessarily know (predict builds and all that) and explain why said thing is important. I do not need someone to tell me obvious things that i can see on the screen, that is just filler. -Charisma. Style of casting is just as equally important as knowledge. The content needs to be delivered in a manner that is entertaining and pleasant on the ears and eyes. Charisma and voice are an important part of this. Tasteless is a great example of a caster who clearly isn't that up to date with the metagame, but is a great charismatic person who knows how to deliver and isn't afraid to work with his co-caster in areas that he himself might be lacking. As for the other points, Passion is obviously important in whatever a person does, but isn't necessarily a point that i would consider vital in a great caster and great play-by-play just comes with being a engaging personality and charismatic speaker. | ||
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Dalguno
United States2446 Posts
I guess more than anything, I want professionalism. The International just looked flat out professional, from the caster booths to the player booths to the crisp casting. I feel like SC2 gets almost too personal and comfortable to the point where it becomes less and less about the game. Just my two cents. | ||
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meteorskunk
Canada546 Posts
perhaps this means knowing the ins and outs of how the build a player is using usually works out on a map like grubby perhaps this means "mirror[ing] some of the anxiety that I would feel if I was playing in a similar situation." for example, i will never forget moletrap brilliantly casting a game where Luxury 4pools. "OH no! luxury what are you doing....-_____-???? Luxuries *cheesing*...... hes not building ANY drones"... basically jokingly treating him like a contemptible knuckle head.. so luxury attacls the terram and we have this emotional investment and the terran struggles to get a bunker and he gets it up but fails to get the marine in moletrap is saying "oh noooo! get the marine in the bunker buddy!!!" such a great viewing experience... also in those vods we could always see the player's facial expressions.. perhaps this means artistic exaggeration "the terran WAR machine that is KT flash, sprouts more and more metal on the map, gaining land with robotic indifference "savior the the hope of the zerg commands the zerg hoardes with the feeling precision of a maestro conducting his orchestra! the hoardes flood the map like a disease taking a planet for its own use""..this type of thing doesn't teach us much, instead it makes emotional investment making me pay attention in differeny and maybe focus more... | ||
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Zorkmid
4410 Posts
edit: I think Ret's rant might reflect more on the game itself rather than the casting. Good observing is key! Game knowledge isn't a big factor for me, I think that if you watch enough starcraft you'll know what going on regardless of what the casters are telling you, and I don't really understand the rage I hear when casters make tiny mistakes. | ||
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MetalPanda
Canada1152 Posts
The most solid casters out there IMO are Artosis and Apollo, they got it all : Charisma, humor, good play-by-play, good analytical skills, good voice, knows the metagame well (Artosis knows Korean metagame almost exclusively though), and passion for the game. | ||
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Landriss
France10 Posts
On September 03 2012 17:13 Liquid`Ret wrote: I have been watching starcraft and starcraft 2 for an extremely long time and I almost feel like the casting is getting worse and worse across the board. There are a few exceptions like Apollo, Rotterdam/MrBitter, Artosis (although he was much better a year ago) but with the other ones you can tell they almost never play the game anymore or never have played to begin with. Starcraft is a beautiful game. There is a very large group of players who have great mechanics and practice a lot, so their builds are very polished and they can all beat each other on any given day. Still some players do better than others, there is a huge mental aspect to the game and slight changes in builds or playstyles that can make all the difference and this is what makes starcraft matches so fun to watch. . Unfortunately, most casters are not very good at all at recognizing patterns or changes in the metagame, or builds. Infact there are so many occasions where casters who are newbies at the game, judge players and berate them for their mistakes, while they actually don't have a clue what is going on. Of course mistakes are much easier to point out than those little things players change in their play or the mind games that are going on at the top level. But these are the things that make starcraft a brilliant game to watch and follow. I feel like if we had professional casters who actually put the time and effort into delivering the best performance possible, the audience would come much closer to be able to experience starcraft in the same way that progamers experience it. With all the little nuances, mind games, and reasons why someone is doing what they're doing being analyzed and clearly explained. When I listen to a cast and would be unable to see the screen, I would feel like sc2 is a random slugfest with 2 guys just throwing units at each other. Every game feels the same, and one guy wins at the end. This actually makes Starcraft much less appealing to new people or people who are actually looking for depth, not cheap entertainment. Of course this is exaggerated, but it's still sad to me that there is so little actual skill and knowledge amongst casters. I really hope that eventually (sooner the better) we can go to a model where there is one person doing play by plays and coloring the cast, and one progamer or ex-progamer (who still keeps up his skill and knowledge of all the recent trends) doing analytical casting. We saw some of this when Grubby was casting with apollo/kalearis and TLO/apollo at assembly (and these guys have barely practiced casting). The current casters are actually not helping Starcraft 2 grow in my opinion, they just live off their initial fame and because of how e-sports works twitter followers and popularity is more important than quality, substance. I believe Starcraft 2 is a good enough game to keep people interested, as long as the skill on the screen is translated and well delivered to the audience. p.s sorry kinda off-topic, but felt like writing my opinion I have really mixed feelings about this post. I do agree with most of this post because I like to have in-depth analysis given to me by people who simple know a lot more than I do. Yet this topic reminds me of Cloud's vlog and (I think) some of Idra's talks about how most of the time analysts credit player for making moves in with a precise goal when what they do is just "random shit" (not sure who said that exact phrase, but it's out there somewhere on the internet, and the internet is a big scary place). So casters have to find some sort of middle ground. Day9 (easiest example here) gets excited about an army move, a timing or a pylon placement, he explains why at great lenghts and people say "dude, seriously that's just random shit being done, cause you have to do something with that APM". Then he obviously takes that into account (maybe it's just me, but I feel that most casters have actually reduced the amount of analysis they lately) and people suddenly think of him as "just an entertainer". There IS a middle ground to be found, somewhere. Maybe there is also something to be done on the community's side. Now onto the "helping Starcraft 2 and e-sports grow" part of things. Well sadly most people actually prefer a much more play-by-play, exciting, sometimes screaming type of casting. I love to hear Apollo's insight on a game, I love to hear Artosis's latest korean metagame analysis. I'm an absolute sucker for Grubby's casting (and English, and hair). Like you said it makes me feel closer to the pro's minds, to a level of thinking about the game I would never get to by myself, and that makes Starcraft beautiful, no question about that. Yet I can't help but feel that we need people like TB, like djWheat, like Husky, who clearly don't know as much about the inner workings of Starcraft, but are so enthusiastic that they can keep you on the edge of your seat in almost any situation. Why do we need them? Because I think (I have no numbers on that, just a feeling) that most people who play or know Starcraft 2 enough that they can fully understand and appreciate an in-depth analysis from Apollo, Artosis, you or Idra while STILL following the game already do watch Starcraft. In order to grow, this game needs to target new demographics: people who don't play the game, but like to watch it the same way anyone would watch Premier League football or NBA basketball. These people won't understand an in-depth analysis, and most of them don't even want to. They want to be entertained, to see spectacular plays and to be excited about it. It's a very "simple" pleasure. I understand the frustration it leads to when you have a very high knowledge of the game. I've played basketball almost my whole life, and listening Mike Breen or Mike Tirico can even get painfully embarrassing (even the analysis is most of the time really basic), yet these are the kind of people who can get the audience excited. Starcraft needs that. I think overall the whole "analysis desk" thing that MLG has started to work on in recent events is probably the best solution, though it still needs some polishing. People need to learn to use that big screen to its full potential, and YOU DO NOT PUT DJWHEAT OR TB IN AN "ANALYSIS" TEAM. I love them, but it's just not their job. Still, having an analysis team on the side with progamers like Axslav, Grubby and other progamers with that kind of profile gives depth to a tournament and makes for a much more easily understandable analysis than Artosis quickly explaining between two roach pushes why this and that was important, relying on pre-existing knowledge on the viewer's side. | ||
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HeeroFX
United States2704 Posts
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