EPTSituation Report: August 31, 2012 by David Kim - Page 26
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TheRabidDeer
United States3806 Posts
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Jerubaal
United States7684 Posts
On September 01 2012 10:12 InoyouS2 wrote: Wrong; I liked David Kim before this, now I think he's just being an idiot. (spoiler: balance discussion) + Show Spoiler + Before the queen buff TvZ was BY FAR the best match up to watch, the problem the queen change gave is that Terran is always behind in macro, and to compensate, damage to the mineral line was vital to be able to keep up with Zerg. The queen buff not only made it impossible for hellions/marines to kite queens early-game (where the damage done actually matters), but it allowed the Zerg players to be RIDICULOUSLY greedy... Seriously, a unit that helps with macro (larva), helps with map control (creep spread), is superior to all early game air and ground unit choices the opponent can make, and it doesn't even use up a production slot. It also takes away a lot of the decision making that made great Zergs stand out; when to build lings, when to drone. If you don't need lings to defend because you have queens, you can dedicate 100% of your larva to drone production, leaving yourself only mildly open to an all-in. It doesn't matter what your individual opinion is. It's the aggregate opinion that is dissonant. The notion that there's a consensus community opinion and that Blizzard negligently ignores it is a myth, as is evidenced by this thread. | ||
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Mephtral
Sweden60 Posts
On September 01 2012 10:47 uzushould wrote: yes as long as there is one single person on the planet who thinks different one could allways say something is only "your own opinion", i mean if i say to shit in a glass, piss on it and then drink it isn t tasty, it would be also just my own opinion while 9999 ouf of 10000 people would agree.........you know that tvz was considered to be the most dynamic and interesting matchup to watch, so where the fuck is you point about this "just your opinion"-thing? You say "was" has it changed? | ||
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Seam
United States1093 Posts
We don't see hellion openings every game now. That totally makes it less dynamic I guess? | ||
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sCCrooked
Korea (South)1306 Posts
On September 01 2012 10:47 TheRabidDeer wrote: Why are there so many cries to nerf zerg when protoss is dominating so heavily right now? Because old useless whining (and whiners) dies hard. | ||
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Cybren
United States206 Posts
On September 01 2012 01:17 Zelniq wrote: Wish they just did this all the time.. players, most of the time will figure out ways to deal with any problems and on some occasions Blizzard should have just waited longer before making changes The game would be so cool with burrow casting, khydarin amulet, and speed voids. I kind of think a lot of their balance patches were premature and Improperly reasoned | ||
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Talack
Canada2742 Posts
Sigh... | ||
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uzushould
Austria122 Posts
well i didn t say "was", it was inoyou who said this, but i know what he means.... i was discussing tvz with a friend lately (i m a 1300 + master terran and so is he) why every terran nowadays plays helions cloaked banshee even tough zergs know everyone plays it.....its because you can t play anything else as a terra (besides some cheese and allins)...and as soon as zergs realise that they will exploid it hard....look at leenok mlg, he had no idea (based on scouting) that there are cloaked banshees coming but he allready placed a sporecrawler in every base and even placed two sporecrawlers next to his spinecrawlers to defend his creep....he was the only zerg i saw at mlg that really did expoid the fact that terran can only go helion cloaked bansheed and just prepared perfectly for it.....and thats just boring, just as boring as zvp where p can only ffe......thats why inoyou was talking about (i think), and terrans get just roflstomped at the 17 minute mark with a bunch of a-click ultras | ||
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geokilla
Canada8246 Posts
>.> <.< No. | ||
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TheRabidDeer
United States3806 Posts
On September 01 2012 11:02 geokilla wrote: Game is very balanced..... >.> <.< No. Terran wins IEM Zerg wins MLG Protoss wins GSL I dunno, seems pretty good from a championship standpoint. | ||
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Robotix
United States51 Posts
On September 01 2012 11:00 uzushould wrote: well i didn t say "was", it was inoyou who said this, but i know what he means.... i was discussing tvz with a friend lately (i m a 1300 + master terran and so is he) why every terran nowadays plays helions cloaked banshee even tough zergs know everyone plays it.....its because you can t play anything else as a terra (besides some cheese and allins)...and as soon as zergs realise that they will exploid it hard....look at leenok mlg, he had no idea (based on scouting) that there are cloaked banshees coming but he allready placed a sporecrawler in every base and even placed two sporecrawlers next to his spinecrawlers to defend his creep....he was the only zerg i saw at mlg that really did expoid the fact that terran can only go helion cloaked bansheed and just prepared perfectly for it.....and thats just boring, just as boring as zvp where p can only ffe......thats why inoyou was talking about (i think), and terrans get just roflstomped at the 17 minute mark with a bunch of a-click ultras So TvZ went from Hellion openings in almost every single game to Hellion/Banshee openings in almost every single game? Methinks balance isn't the problem here. | ||
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Dontkillme
Korea (South)806 Posts
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Mephtral
Sweden60 Posts
On September 01 2012 11:00 uzushould wrote: well i didn t say "was", it was inoyou who said this, but i know what he means.... i was discussing tvz with a friend lately (i m a 1300 + master terran and so is he) why every terran nowadays plays helions cloaked banshee even tough zergs know everyone plays it.....its because you can t play anything else as a terra (besides some cheese and allins)...and as soon as zergs realise that they will exploid it hard....look at leenok mlg, he had no idea (based on scouting) that there are cloaked banshees coming but he allready placed a sporecrawler in every base and even placed two sporecrawlers next to his spinecrawlers to defend his creep....he was the only zerg i saw at mlg that really did expoid the fact that terran can only go helion cloaked bansheed and just prepared perfectly for it.....and thats just boring, just as boring as zvp where p can only ffe......thats why inoyou was talking about (i think), and terrans get just roflstomped at the 17 minute mark with a bunch of a-click ultras Alright, so first of all, no it's not the only viable opening (Until pro-level, and maybe even there,i cant be sure of that). in masters you can still do combatshield pushes for example, but also most other openings are still viable, as long as you make sure to scout for a roachbling allin and make enough bunkers. it's a really good opening tho (hellion/banshee), because it forces the zerg to not only drone(you need spores or overseers+extra queens, and you need lings or roaches to keep the hellions away from your mineral lines), while you get a great economy behind it (3cc) and gives you map control until mutas or infestors are out. The reason zergs arent exploiting it hard, is because it's a solid opener.. it can actually hold roachbling allins with good control, and you can transition into either mech or marinetank or even pure bio after it with a great economy. and it's just amazing how people seem to think that there was a million more other openings before the patch... most games that wasn't a allin pre-patch was a hellion opener to contain the zerg on 2base while either taking a fast third and get a big advantage - or preparing a slightly later allin. | ||
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LamaMitHut
Germany187 Posts
On September 01 2012 11:02 geokilla wrote: Game is very balanced..... >.> <.< No. ![[image loading]](http://i49.tinypic.com/za14p.png) wcg korea ro16: 5p 9t 2z osl ro16: 8p 6t 2z. mlg summer top 16: 5p 5t 6z nasl s3 ro16: 6p 6t 4z. iem ro24: 8p 7t 9z. sc2 world championship series korea ro16: 8p 3t 5z | ||
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archides
United States31 Posts
On September 01 2012 07:39 Netsky wrote: Why are people posting links to random foreigner tournament results after the queen buff? This means absolutely nothing. They are balancing around the highest level of gameplay - that is GSL Code S (with some influence from Code A I'm sure...and soon to be the OSL/other Korean leagues). Not foreigners, or foreigner tournaments. There wasn't, and current isn't a significant drop in win rates for TvZ, or an under representation of Terran for extended period of time in GSL Code S. Unless something drastically changes in HotS, you are never going to see balanced win rates for Terran foreigners. Terran is significantly harder to play both in terms of mechanics (physical) and strategy (mental) than the other 2 races. Terran is fine, but you need to be at the highest levels of skill. I personally think this isn't a problem, and I don't think they should be balancing the game around foreigners. Yes but, for example, designing the basketball court's dimensions to keep things competitive for high level basketball play (NBA of course) is fine. But designing the court to make sure every defense can contain Michael Jordan is not, but that's what Blizzard is doing. They are looking at the very tip-top terran's pulling off great plays, and basing SC2 patches off of that. They don't seem to be considering that those players earned those wins not because the other race was strategically inferior, but because those few terran player(s) are just ahead of the curve (and continue to find ways to get ahead). It doesn't mean that the sport/e-sport is imbalanced, and thus it doesn't mean they need to patch the game everytime MVP's, MMA's, and Taeja's own up a tournament. You're going to have superstar players in any game, but that doesn't mean you balance the game around their specific talents, because then you're punishing them for excelling. | ||
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bhfberserk
Canada390 Posts
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Prplppleatr
United States1518 Posts
PS. every race has a player to bitch about. I.e. X vs Y, X: i don't know how to beat Y... Y: just play like so and so... X: if i had so and so's ability i wouldn't have a problem... Y: blizzard doesn't balance for noobs... X: glad they don't  | ||
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Entropic
Canada2837 Posts
On September 01 2012 12:13 Prplppleatr wrote: Love it. Glad blizzard is balancing around the top-tier and not the bottom (which i consider myself in top masters just as close as someone in bronze, i.e. no where near the lvl of the top players). This is what ruined many other 'competitive' games was balance around lower tier players *cough* WoW *cough* glad they aren't making the same mistakes. PS. every race has a player to bitch about. I.e. X vs Y, X: i don't know how to beat Y... Y: just play like so and so... X: if i had so and so's ability i wouldn't have a problem... Y: blizzard doesn't balance for noobs... X: glad they don't You mean theyre balancing around the fact that MVP beat some European zergs who became all good after the patch. | ||
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Mephtral
Sweden60 Posts
On September 01 2012 13:15 Entropic wrote: You mean theyre balancing around the fact that MVP beat some European zergs who became all good after the patch. or around the fact that a Eu terran destroyed a korean 3 time code S champion? Yes, that goes both ways. | ||
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TelecoM
United States10708 Posts
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